We don't see in 4K?

CoryCory New Scotland
Does this change anyone's interest in getting a 4K TV?  Will 8K never really be a thing?

https://youtu.be/VxNBiAV4UnM

Comments

  • I have better than 20/20 vision (Humble brag? Normal brag? Lol) and we have a 55" 1080p TV. I've never noticed the difference looking at 4k TV's in stores, which I assume are running their ads to show 4k. 

    I'm sure I'll buy one when I need another TV (cause there won't be 1080p tv's widely available in all likelihood), but I'm not rushing to replace our current TV. So I guess I agree with this guy. 

    Also, forget 4k, I want the next TV revolution to be "having more than 3 HDMI ports" 
    Jovial_Falcon
  • He says there is not much 4K content, and that anything filmed before 2016 or so wouldn't be true 4k ... which is totally false - lot's of streaming providers have been producing their original content in 4K hdr for a couple years now. And anything filmed on film already has >4K resolution and can be converted to 4k - so basically most movies. See for example Breaking Bad on Netflix, it looks f-ing great.

    Also new 4K tv's don't just have better resolution, which isn't worth upgrading for alone, but have better colors (including HDR), better contrast, brightness, local dimming, etc. Sure if you have a top of the line plasma from 5 years ago you probably don't need to upgrade, but for example I upgraded my 10 yr old 1080p LCD last year and the difference was very noticeable for all of those reasons.
    KingKobra
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    I had Lasik and have about 2020 vision (slightly better than that in my right eye, I think) and have a 60 inch 1080p TV, ASD IT HAS 4 HDMI ports (7 when I add my A/V Receiver to it).


    I'm guessing 4K will make a difference for 100+ inch screens, and you will probably still be able to get 1080p on smaller screens.  I believe you can still get 720p on some screens that are 32 inches or less.
  • Cory said:
    I had Lasik and have about 2020 vision (slightly better than that in my right eye, I think) and have a 60 inch 1080p TV, ASD IT HAS 4 HDMI ports (7 when I add my A/V Receiver to it).


    I'm guessing 4K will make a difference for 100+ inch screens, and you will probably still be able to get 1080p on smaller screens.  I believe you can still get 720p on some screens that are 32 inches or less.
    4K makes a difference on smaller screens as well. I can tell the difference between 720p, 1080p and 4K on my 65” OLED. While a high bitrate 1080p can be very close to 4K, there is a slight difference in favor of 4K. The resolution however is not the biggest benefit. 

    As it was said by @MrX there is more to it than just resolution however. The biggest benefits are HDR (pick a flavor) and wide color gamut. For HDR it brings us closer to what we see via specials highlights in real world situations. An SDR video is capped at ~100 nits across the board (think of it as a flat line. With HDR we are capable of producing specials highlights that are mastered for ~10k nits (consumer displays currently max out at about 2.5k so there is plenty of headroom). This means that those hilights will closet match what we would see if actually in that world being filmed. Most all of the movies we see in the theater are based on P3 color space. We are now getting much closer to this on home displays where color space is being matched against not only P3 but Rec 2020. The wider the color space the closer to reality we get with the ability to replicate those colors in film movies. @MrX was also correct about film resolution. There are many movies that were shot on film where the resolution of the film effectively is greater than 4K. To add to this the newer technology allows higher bitrates which will also bring more information even if said source is at a lower resolution. For instance the 1st season of GoT was shot at ~2k resolution and released on 4K Blu-Ray. The method used to shoot was at a higher bitrate than regular blu-Ray could support, thus when released on UHDBR we are much closer to what was actually shot since the new format allows for higher bitrates.

    As far as 8K never being “a thing” there have already been multiple 8K display devices announced. They ARE coming to a screen near you. 

    Now you may not care about the benefits of the new improvements, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t many there and easily discernible. I guess this guy would reinforce things for those that don’t want to upgrade, but for me it was well worth it. 
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    KingKobra said:

    As far as 8K never being “a thing” there have already been multiple 8K display devices announced. They ARE coming to a screen near you. 
    Oh I know 8K has been around, it's more of a question of if/when the increases will no longer be important enough for the average consumer to upgrade.

    KingKobra said:
    The biggest benefits are HDR (pick a flavor) and wide color gamut. For HDR it brings us closer to what we see via specials highlights in real world situations
    I'm not familiar with HDR (heard of it, but haven't researched it much as of yet).  Is this not something that could be implemented into 2K?

    KingKobra said:

    There are many movies that were shot on film where the resolution of the film effectively is greater than 4K. To add to this the newer technology allows higher bitrates which will also bring more information even if said source is at a lower resolution. 
    I knew this as well, but have never known what the cap for these old movies shot on old film is.
  • i suspect it'll be sort of like the differences between lower-sampling digital audio, high sampling digital audio, and analog audio:  some people for whom they are biologically literally indistinguishable, some people who biologically can hear a difference, and some people who intellectually know that there's a difference and think they can hear it.
    asmallcatalexander.klassen
  • Cory said:
    KingKobra said:

    As far as 8K never being “a thing” there have already been multiple 8K display devices announced. They ARE coming to a screen near you. 
    Oh I know 8K has been around, it's more of a question of if/when the increases will no longer be important enough for the average consumer to upgrade.

    KingKobra said:
    The biggest benefits are HDR (pick a flavor) and wide color gamut. For HDR it brings us closer to what we see via specials highlights in real world situations
    I'm not familiar with HDR (heard of it, but haven't researched it much as of yet).  Is this not something that could be implemented into 2K?

    KingKobra said:

    There are many movies that were shot on film where the resolution of the film effectively is greater than 4K. To add to this the newer technology allows higher bitrates which will also bring more information even if said source is at a lower resolution. 
    I knew this as well, but have never known what the cap for these old movies shot on old film is.
    1) when they stop making upgrades is when it will stop being important. Prices go down and screens get bigger, this requiring higher resolution, bitrate, color gamut, etc. we are starting to see the beginnings of modular TV walls for home use, in the future this will most likely be the way we watch TV/movies. 

    2) yes, NetFlix does this with some of their shows (Apple does thisnwil some of their devices as well), but it will not come to disc formats as it is not part of the specs for SDR blu-Ray. To add, Most manufacturers have moved all in on 4K displays, even on their cheap sets. Lastly, only 4K sets have the HDR ability so if you want 1 you have to take the other. 

    3) it depends on what the movie was shot on. Here is an older discussion, but there are many out there:

    http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=72252

  • Made a big difference on my projector & movie room set-up. At 1080 the pixels/grid were relatively visible, with 4k there's no perceptible pixels and looks super sharp.

    Of course this is on what would be the equivalent of a 120" TV and projector tech is a bit different than large format TV's. The 'screen' on a projector is only about an inch across and then is blown up in size via lenses & mirrors, so some of the scaling math makes packing in those extra pixels worth it. I would even say that the future 8K tech will be worth it for large format projection.


  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA

    Yes, exactly. My screen size and viewing distance of my current setup make a 4K TV useless to me.
  • Not a big deal for TVs, but high res displays are very important for VR headsets, which are the future.
    alexander.klassen
  • edited September 28
    Can't watch the video right now so I'm not sure if this is covered, but even if your sight operates at a lower resolution than the thing you're looking at, that doesn't necessarily mean there's no benefit. If you point a standard def camera at an SD and an HD TV, the HD will still look clearer because you're losing information on each pass so it helps to start with too much information. 
  • 65” at 8’ or less depending on where I’m sitting ;) while the many diagrams are nice (there are others that get passed around) there are “many” who go against the grain of those charts. Personally I wouldn’t use them as gospel (I’ve seen too many posts and personal experience go against them), but do understand those that do. 
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    i'm in the market for a 60'. any recommendations? looking to spend around 1500-2000.
  • Chinaski said:
    i'm in the market for a 60'. any recommendations? looking to spend around 1500-2000.
    “It depends” if 60” is your hard limit, some choices won’t be available to you.
    LCD:
    Vizio P series 
    TCL 6 Series 
    the “best” Sony or Samsung you can get

    OLED:
    B7/B8/C8 55” 

    Here’s a trusted review site (based on measurable results, the subjective parts are just that) 
    https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-2000



    Chinaski
  • Chinaski said:
    i'm in the market for a 60'. any recommendations? looking to spend around 1500-2000.
    If you can find a 2017 LG E8 should be around 2000 for the 65in. However not sure if any store is still carrying new 2017 models. 

    the 2018 model is a bit more though 
    ChinaskiKingKobra
  • edited September 29
    Well I am sure glad @KingKobra jumped into this before I did because he did a much better job at explaining all of that than I would have been able to do.  A lot of this comes down to reference.  Even if you have the horrible eyesight if I set up a 65" 1080P TV next to a 65" 4k TV and play the same content or movie (obviously 1 in 1080P and 1 in 4k) I can guarantee you will notice a difference.  

    The bigger thing in my opinion than resolution (1080P vs. 4k) is HDR (high dynamic range).  This allows a television to reproduce a much higher contrast creating whiter whites, blacker blacks, and a significantly wider range of colors.  

    @Chinaski I 2nd what KingKobra recommended.  If you can fit in a LG OLED TV in your budget do it because it is hands down the best quality picture out there.  Sony also makes an OLED but for the price difference go with LG because Sony actually uses LG panels in their OLEDs.  Also just a heads up 60" is kind of an oddball size now days.  They definitely still make them but that specific size doesn't have as many different models made as 55" and 65".
    Chinaski
  • Hatorian said:
    Chinaski said:
    i'm in the market for a 60'. any recommendations? looking to spend around 1500-2000.
    If you can find a 2017 LG E8 should be around 2000 for the 65in. However not sure if any store is still carrying new 2017 models. 

    the 2018 model is a bit more though 
    Also if you have surround sound you can actually get the LG C8. 

    The big difference between the two is the sound bar on the E8. But if you have a surround sound system then maybe go with the C8. 

    https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.wired.com/review/review-lg-c8-oled-4k-tv/amp


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