Ethical implications of Meat consumption

Both our species consumption of it, and the global meat industry that supports it.



For myself, my family has been able to transition to a mostly meatfree menu for most of the week, which seems the most reasonable and sustainable response to the dilema.

Maybe not though. Thoughts and your own personal reaction?
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Comments

  • I love meat. Regarding killing animals, I don't really care, I'm afraid. However, unless human birth rates go down, feeding farm animals will become unsustainable and everyone will be living on tofu cubes eventually.
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited September 30
    All of humanity's problems could be solved with interstellar colonization, so eat more meat and get to work on a hyper drive, science fucks.
    telephoneofmadnessJimTravis
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  • I love meat. Regarding killing animals, I don't really care, I'm afraid. However, unless human birth rates go down, feeding farm animals will become unsustainable and everyone will be living on tofu cubes eventually.
    The environmental impact of the meat industry as outlined in the OP'd video is fucking stunning.
    telephoneofmadness
  • hitmy said:
    I love meat. Regarding killing animals, I don't really care, I'm afraid. However, unless human birth rates go down, feeding farm animals will become unsustainable and everyone will be living on tofu cubes eventually.
    The environmental impact of the meat industry as outlined in the OP'd video is fucking stunning.
    I agree.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited September 30
    I haven't watched the video, but I'm not uneducated about it. It's like driving a car to me. I'm just gonna do it. I've looked at the diet options available to me to avoid obesity, and low carb is vastly the easiest of the options, and there's no way I'm doing that without meat.

    People should really shut up about GMOs though. That direction is the future of food, and the sooner we get there the better. I welcome synthetic meat.
    KingKobrarusskellyMichelleFlukesJoshTheBlackTravis
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  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I didn't watch the video either because I am pretty well versed in this and my husband is sleeping. But there are lots of low carb protein sources that aren't meat. Not that I am saying not to eat meat, because I do, but you can be a low carb vegetarian for sure. In fact, one issue that arises when people go on vegetarian diets is to substitute carbs for meat (like eating a giant bowl of pasta to feel full or whatever) and it's an issue that's discussed there a lot. You don't even have to eat fake meat. I was a vegetarian for a few years and I rarely ate any fake meat products. I did eat a lot of tofu; in fact when I eat out at a cheap Asian place, I often order tofu for my "meat" because cheap tofu is better quality than cheap meat. But you don't even really have to eat tofu if you don't like it. 

    BTW here's a yummy vegetarian meal I made the other day. Beets and carrots from my garden (roasted) with their greens (sauted), some farro (which was less in quantity in the meal than the veggies) and peanuts on top. I didn't do all the math to see if it was perfectly balanced but it was super yummy. 



    Is this in response to me? That dish is over 40g carbs easily. Keto, or low carb, is 20-30g carbs a day. I'm glad you enjoyed your food.
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  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited September 30
    JaimieT said:
    I didn't watch the video either because I am pretty well versed in this and my husband is sleeping. But there are lots of low carb protein sources that aren't meat. Not that I am saying not to eat meat, because I do, but you can be a low carb vegetarian for sure. In fact, one issue that arises when people go on vegetarian diets is to substitute carbs for meat (like eating a giant bowl of pasta to feel full or whatever) and it's an issue that's discussed there a lot. You don't even have to eat fake meat. I was a vegetarian for a few years and I rarely ate any fake meat products. I did eat a lot of tofu; in fact when I eat out at a cheap Asian place, I often order tofu for my "meat" because cheap tofu is better quality than cheap meat. But you don't even really have to eat tofu if you don't like it. 

    BTW here's a yummy vegetarian meal I made the other day. Beets and carrots from my garden (roasted) with their greens (sauted), some farro (which was less in quantity in the meal than the veggies) and peanuts on top. I didn't do all the math to see if it was perfectly balanced but it was super yummy. 



    Is this in response to me? That dish is over 40g carbs easily. Keto, or low carb, is 20-30g carbs a day. I'm glad you enjoyed your food.
    Like I said, I didn't do the math. And Jaimie, there's no way you could either, just by looking at a photo. Anyway the point I was trying to make was about protein. Put your claws away, lol

    I've been counting carbs for 5 years now and I'm good at it. Peanuts have a lot of carbs, farro is just carbs, and veggies are just carbs (though less impactful because of the high fiber content). The vegetarian keto subreddit is a ghost town. Neither party wants to do that to themselves.

    Meat isn't just about getting protein in keto, it's about getting non-carb calories. 

    "You can have corn tortillas right? Corn's not a carb." - family member last week

    I am glad you enjoyed your food. :)
  • russkellyrusskelly Indianapolis
    This is capitalism's fault. BUT, I am also trying to break my meat addiction. We've been doing meatless mondays, more leafy greens, that sort of thing. Last week after a few days of going meatless, the wife and I went out and got burgers at the bar and it was like smoking a cigarette for the first time in a week. That's how great it felt to get that beef in my mouth. I've also been opting for gulf shrimp, instead of other shrimps for cheap.(When I'm regularly not buying shrimp at all.) I heard on a podcast that the cheap asian shrimp you get everywhere may be peeled by slave labor. Capitalism (and meat) is a hell of a drug...
  • As with many issues, especially on the climate side of things, it is easier to provide an alternative than taking something away from people.

    There has been meat made in labs that is indistinguishable in taste tests from regular meat. The problem is it cost about $500/lb.

    If there weren't climate change deniers running the government I'd say make a national project of making it an affordable industry.

    I agree with @JaimieT about GMOs. I have since I saw Pen & Teller's Bullshit episode about GMOs that had one guy who made wheat grow in different climates and conditions. His is literally responsible with the saving of billions of lives.

    There is also this guy who has proven for years that we can reverse desertification by herd animal migrations that I find fascinating.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI

    Huge problems like this don't have just one solution and a combination of different ones is usually the answer. The objective should be to outline the problem and encourage solutions. If people just go around saying ban meat it will go nowhere to the detriment of everyone. Unfortunately the loud bomb throwing knuckleheads from both parties here in America have made progress in any worthwhile endeavor impossible.
    JaimieTDoubleA_Rontom_g
  • I'm going to try not eating meat one day each week. I think this will not end well.
  • It's probably not actually outrageous to propose a meat tax given the externalities paid for in cost to the climate ( do factory farms pay a methane tax for cow farts?), But in lieu of that I like to find the most boutique and expensive meat possible

    Like our friends in Portlandia:


  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I watched about half the video, but it seems like it’s for children? Why are there Bob’s Burgers characters in it? I’m pretty well- versed in food production so it wasn’t telling me anything I didn’t already know anyway.

    I do eat meat (beef, lamb, chicken, fish) maybe two or three times a week, red meat maybe once a week. I try to buy organic, free range, grass/pasture fed when I can, but it’s surprisingly difficult to find in Adelaide. It is also impossible to get wild caught salmon here. All our salmon is farmed. 

    I believe that anyone who has the means to (can afford it and can access it) has a social obligation to buy free range, organic, grass fed, sustainable and/or local wherever possible. This would eventually increase production and reduce prices, making it more and more accessible for others. I try to do that myself, though it’s not always possible for me - as I said above, a lot of it is hard to get hold of here. (For example, I wanted to try making bone broth, but couldn’t find organic, free range bones anywhere, and it seemed kind of pointless doing it with factory farmed bones.) Meat and fish are incredibly expensive here too, another reason I don’t eat huge amounts of it. 

    Ethically, I have no problem with eating animals as such, but I do have a problem with treating them unnecessarily cruelly - I don’t eat veal or foie gras, for example, because of how they’re made. A vegan could make the argument that ALL animal food production involves cruelty, and I’m not here to argue that. I’m just stating what my personal lines are. 
    telephoneofmadnessFreddyFlukes
  • I used to eat a lot of meat, but hate cooking it. I mean, I just don’t like the way my house smells, handling it raw, etc. 

    When I eat at home (5 out of 7 days) it tends to be vegetarian by default, when I go out I eat meat and enjoy it. I do sometimes eat eggs, but not frequently. 

    I started doing Meatless Monday and realized I enjoyed the food I made without meat more than that with. I have been making eggplant parmigiana in my instant pot that is to die
    for. 

    Maybe, try a couple days a week. When I started I had heard that if every American ate no meat once a week, the positive impact would be insane, so I did one day a week for me and one day for someone else who couldn’t. It has snowballed. :)
    FreddyKate23
  • For me it's all about the horrendous environmental impact of factory meat farming, rather than a moral imperative or health concerns (anything to excess is bad, and meat is the same in that way as everything else).

    At home now we basically never eat meat as part of normal meals, but will eat meat when going out and for special occasions (labor day cookout, for example). I've barely noticed, TBH (since even before this we were basically only eating decent-quality meat, which is expensive and therefore we didn't have it very often). I don't feel any more tired, or less healthy, I haven't gained weight, etc. 

    I think this will, hopefully, be the future. I have no issues with meat consumption, but the rate we American's consume it is both bad for the world and bad for us (especially red meat). Hopefully we can all be more moderate in our consumption. Also, I'm pretty surprised how many people are eating meat every day in this thread. That's crazy! 

    telephoneofmadness - The future isn't tofu cubes, it's bug proteins. IIRC bugs are VASTLY the highest protein/calorie return on feed, and they're already making bug flours and other stuff. It'll be snowpiercer-style bug bars for all of us soon! =P



  • I don’t see how eating animal meat isn’t anything but morally wrong given how we farm the animals, but it is morally permissible in our culture since that’s how we’re currently feeding the masses.
    JaimieTken hale
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited October 1
    @asmallcat - This is what I grew up with in the 90s.



    This one is from the 40s...



    That's not to say we don't or shouldn't question our brainwashing (um, I mean, schooling) but that's why many Americans eat meat every day. I didn't even remember "nuts" and "beans" were in that group! Graphically they don't stand out.

    Edit: Weirdly, take out the sugar and this food pyramid is flipped for me, for how I eat.  >:)
    fidoz
  • @jamieT Lol, yeah, I also remember the food pyramid from my elementary days in the 90's (2003 HS grad). I think it's like, a plate now or something? 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    asmallcat said:
    @jamieT Lol, yeah, I also remember the food pyramid from my elementary days in the 90's (2003 HS grad). I think it's like, a plate now or something? 

    Yes it is. I was reading the Wiki article about it. I find that sort of thing fascinating. 
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Wait I thought this was the food groups from the 90's:

    FlukesasmallcatDoctor_NickTravis
  • asmallcat said:

    telephoneofmadness - The future isn't tofu cubes, it's bug proteins. IIRC bugs are VASTLY the highest protein/calorie return on feed, and they're already making bug flours and other stuff. It'll be snowpiercer-style bug bars for all of us soon! =P
    Hmmm, in that case I think, uh, I'll reconsider my views on the morality of eating animals. #lentils4life #savethebugs
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    cdrive said:
    Wait I thought this was the food groups from the 90's:

    That a Taco Bueno party burrito? Freddy likes Taco Bueno party burritos. 
    cdrive
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  • Just proves that real men eat Cheese Pizza... 
  • I was a vegetarian off and on for 20+ years, then I gave up all meat and dairy in January 2017 and I feel great.  I think the thing is, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.  If you don't want to give up steaks or chicken or cheese or whatever your one thing is, that's fine.  Cutting back on everything else, or even a few meals a week is going to make a difference in terms of the environmental effects, health, and animal suffering.  It's not all or nothing...and sure, there are issues with smaller animals being killed during harvesting of crops for plant-based foods and that makes me sad, but it's not a reason to throw the entire concept out the window.  

    The podcast Science Vs just did a show on vegans.  Lots of good objective info on there and worth a listen.

    gguenotFlukesDeephoenyx1023
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I think perfect is the mortal enemy of good. I was already moving away from pork and red meat in my 30s just as a way to maintain my weight, but watching that documentary Cowspiracy really haunted me on the environmental impact. I'm almost entirely chicken/turkey/fish now, and working on eliminating that. Just cutting out eating megafauna from 5-7 times a week to maybe 4 times a year has to have a huge impact. It's less expensive, too. You don't have to eliminate meat from your diet, you can just reduce.

    While it's pretty rich being lectured by a vegan from their iPhone while they're wearing shoes made by a kid in bangladesh and wearing diamonds that made a bunch of dutch apartheid fuckers rich while they fucked over half a continent, everybody has to decide for themselves what they're going to give a shit about and what's worth a bit of sacrifice. Which yeah, is why we need energy alternatives and lab created meat because most people aren't just going to reduce their lifestyle willingly. If  I had my say we'd be giving massive incentives to the people trying to build those fledgling markets.
    Flukesphoenyx1023
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  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    edited October 2
    I think perfect is the mortal enemy of good. I was already moving away from pork and red meat in my 30s just as a way to maintain my weight, but watching that documentary Cowspiracy really haunted me on the environmental impact. I'm almost entirely chicken/turkey/fish now, and working on eliminating that. Just cutting out eating megafauna from 5-7 times a week to maybe 4 times a year has to have a huge impact. It's less expensive, too. You don't have to eliminate meat from your diet, you can just reduce.

    While it's pretty rich being lectured by a vegan from their iPhone while they're wearing shoes made by a kid in bangladesh and wearing diamonds that made a bunch of dutch apartheid fuckers rich while they fucked over half a continent, everybody has to decide for themselves what they're going to give a shit about and what's worth a bit of sacrifice. Which yeah, is why we need energy alternatives and lab created meat because most people aren't just going to reduce their lifestyle willingly. If  I had my say we'd be giving massive incentives to the people trying to build those fledgling markets.
    Because fan art isn't the solely the domain of the artistically-gifted (or even -average).

    The word mega-fauna has always been funny to me. I couldn't help but imagine A-Ron taking down 5-7 of these bad boys per week.  Now that I've suitably embarrassed myself, back to work.
    telephoneofmadnessJaimieTBrandonTheBard
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