501 - "The Wars to Come" - SPOILERS

Director: Michael Slovis
Writer: David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
Book spoilers are welcome.  But please, do not discuss anything revealed in the leaked episodes.
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Comments

  • Big Change.  Jaw Dropped!
  • weeniegirlweeniegirl Atlanta, GA
    Uh oh. Could Sansa and Littlefinger be headed to Winterfell?
    Elisa
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Yup looks that way @weeniegirl. A little slow and a lot of setup along with naked dudes lol. I really enjoyed the wall as well as the cersei maggy the frog flashback in the beginning. So happy that GoT is back.
  • GeorgexileGeorgexile Dominican Republic
    What's known about Varys? He was talking about a targaryen restoration but in season one we see Robert sending out to kill danearys via Varys birds and he didn't even flinch, also knowing Ned was against it.
  • Varys was playing his part. He couldn't openly refute and go against the king, just like he couldn't openly testify in Tyrion's favor. Remember at that time, the plan was to put Vicerys on the iron throne. Dany was a means to an end. Things just worked out where Jorah fell for her and developed a conscious, and Vicerys talked himself into an early grave. That was when Dany began to take up the mantle of The Last Dragon and set eyes upon the throne.
    GeorgexileElisa
  • With the focus on Loras' alternative lifestyle in this episode, I think they are setting him up to take Margery's place accused by the Faith later in the season. Anyone else think that?
    Elisasteph_b
  • I can't believe they left out Cersei's prophecy about being choked by the valonqar.
    Elisa
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    At this point, more is different from the books than it's the same. Seems like going forward we've got no Aegon, no Greyjoys, no Stoneheart, no Mance, Tyrion is headed straight to Dany, Jaime is going to Dorne, and if there's no Stoneheart then Brienne's story has to be different, Sansa is heading West... 

    Arya and Kings Landing seem to be on the book path.

    I mostly like all the changes but holding out hope for Stoneheart. 
    Elisa
  • browniefivebrowniefive Minneapolis, MN
    I liked some of the changes, and didn't like others.

    For the most part I thought it was a boring episode. A lot of setup, and I get that stuff is needed. But I felt it was slow paced and Maggie the Frog specifically was kind of weak compared to the book version.

    Anyone else feel that?
  • Anyone wondering if they're going to do the bait and switch they did with Mance in the books?  I still feel like they will, since the Lord of Bones was in the trailer, but I'm still a little worried about that.


    FredSnark said:

    I can't believe they left out Cersei's prophecy about being choked by the valonqar.

    Yeah, I didn't realize that until later.  I wonder if we'll get a second flashback that continues that scene or if they dropped it since it's harder to show her dwelling on that detail without getting into her head.
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited April 2015
    I didn't get the point of the flashback. We already know Cersei is uneasy about Margaery. They've shown that before and showed it again a couple times tonight outside the flashback. 

    Skipping the valonqar makes me think they just plan on Cersei dying some other way.


    Trivia note - Maggy is played Jodhi May, who played the girl that jumped off the cliff in Last of the Mohicans.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    Silly question (been a few years since I read the books). Do we know for a fact that the prophecy was about Margaery and NOT Daenerys?
    krislfrazier
  • We don't, no.  Cersei assumes it's about Margaery, but it's still an open question about whether it's about her, Dany, Sansa, or someone else.
    krislfrazierElisa
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I've always thought that was the irony, Cersei is worrying about a rather minor upstart where Dany is off on this other continent raising dragons, and army, a navy, and consolidating a base of power.  Although, I'd also like the irony of all the major players killing each other off and Marge and Tommen ruling Westeros with Ser Pounce.  I think Tommen is a good kid, Marge is a capable lady, and if Tyrion and Varys could survive the carnage to help steer the realm through a recovery process of a brutal winter and near constant warfare, things could turn out well.  
    krislfrazierElisa
  • We're dealing with George R.R. Martin here, A.Ron. Nothing is going to turn out well. Oh, you fancy those characters, do you? Klunk! (Like that Lannister cousin.)
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    edited April 2015
    The point of Maggy the Frog is that most all these things that the woods witch prophesized has come true for Cersei now. 1) Marry the King Robert not the Prince Rhaegar 2) Three kids for Cersei, 20 bastards for Robert  -- the only thing left is the young upstart 3) Marg, Sansa, Dany, etc  -- which is why Cersei is a bitch to all young royals...and driven by prophecy.  As mentioned above shades of Macbeth.
    ksa1001
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I understand Maggy's function in the books to some extent, but on the more compressed show it just doesn't seem like it's worth the time. Granted, it's only a few minutes. I suppose it rationalizes her attitude, but then it gives the impression she's been a jerk since childhood given how she talks to Maggy. Not to mention Oberyn's story last season about how she treated Tyrion when he was born. 
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    edited April 2015
    D & D are trying to make Cersei look less cray cray then in the books IMO. Trying to give her some justification for her deeds. Just like they made Tyrion more likable in the show.  I like the book versions myself lol.  She is a bloody lunatic..most royals power hungry maniacs are hahahaha.
  • I loved the flashback, personally.  I thought it was the perfect set up for the Cersei versus Margaery dynamic this season.

    Elisa
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Oh, that's the other thing, I think it's far too soon to say that we've seen the last of Cersei's prophecy.  After all, that ended right in the middle of things. I could see it being a nightmare scene later on, with Cersei seeing Tyrion leering above her son's bed and then she wakes up screaming.
    Elisa
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    We're dealing with George R.R. Martin here, A.Ron. Nothing is going to turn out well. Oh, you fancy those characters, do you? Klunk! (Like that Lannister cousin.)
    That's funny...reminded me of THIS that I meant to share earlier.


  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    About the prophecy, perhaps the valonqar part isn't relevant right now considering that Tyrion is gone.  Cersei's paranoia will be focused on Margaery.  Alternatively, it could be relevant in the future if "valonqar" refers to Jaime.  Or has that been ruled out?  It's been years since I read the books, and I hated them (sorry!) so I rarely listen to book discussion.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    LOL Sansa is still all Goth girl in her dress, hair, makeup etc.   Here come's Darth Sansa.  
    A_Ron_HubbardRaiyne
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I did a Tin foil on Cersei's prophecy last year, and I really liked the Jamie = Vlonqar theory.  Seems very air tight, and a nice twist.
    pavlovsbellsteph_bElisaRaiyneksa1001
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    Are the double D's going down the Hand Maiden/Padme switch from The Phantom Menace & the Lord of Bones has been Mance the whole time?
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    edited April 2015
    Don't think so @davemcb - it was cut out to make room for more Game of Buns. 
    steph_b
  • edited April 2015
    Now is the point in the series where I have decided to drop all my book knowledge and just go along for the ride. It doesn't do any good to keep fighting it.
    I really liked this opener. I felt like they hit the right notes with Tyrion and Varys in terms of their relationship. The writers have always been spot on with regards to witty banter. My jaw did drop though when they cut straight to Varys supporting Myrcella for Queen. It makes perfect sense though for TV
    I have a soft spot for everything that takes place at the Wall and in the North. I'm a Stannis supporter. I'm very excited to see where they go with the story. Since there was so much of the North's story in Dance I hope they will stick close to the book @A_Ron_Hubbard mentioned that he looks forward to "get the block Ed"
    But I look forward to "I have my swords and we are coming for you, Bastard"
    Costuming, set design, hair, make-up and weapons are top notch. I have always wanted a replica Sting, but I think I'd take an Oathkeeper too
  • davemcbdavemcb Melbourne
    @Elisa I know I was joking and wanted to see peoples reaction

    @Raiyne interesting about dropping the book knowledge, its a great plan but i'm not sure how well its going to work considering they will need to hit major key milestones in the show that occur in the books but they may get there via different paths and this might mean involving different characters.




  • About the prophecy, perhaps the valonqar part isn't relevant right now considering that Tyrion is gone.  Cersei's paranoia will be focused on Margaery.  Alternatively, it could be relevant in the future if "valonqar" refers to Jaime.  Or has that been ruled out?  It's been years since I read the books, and I hated them (sorry!) so I rarely listen to book discussion.

    But what if it's about The Hound, aka The Gravedigger?
  • davemcb said:

    Are the double D's going down the Hand Maiden/Padme switch from The Phantom Menace & the Lord of Bones has been Mance the whole time?

    I highly doubt it. There was no misdirection at all. If they did, later it would just be like "oh hey we switched them. Surprise!" Not really their style.
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