305 - If You Have Ghosts

Directed by Nic Pizzolatto
Written by Nic Pizzolatto

Episode is available to stream on HBO Go/Now 
2manyboogerscdriveMichelleJoshuaHeterdarwinfeeshyalexander.klassen
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Comments

  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    ^whaaat?!  Interesting....

    Thanks for the heads up!
  • I guess they're getting out ahead of the super bowel
    JoshuaHeter
  • Hmmm... a Roky Erickson reference?  Interesting.
  • I was actually kind of iffy on this episode until the last scene. The action set piece was fine, but I found Woodward's malevolence in dealing with the cops and Hays kind of odd. I guess we don't know enough of his character to say he wouldn't make that turn.

    Also, the three time frames are starting to strain on me a little as we get a good bit of the story through, at times clunky, exposition. I'm not down on it yet, but I hope we get to see more active revelations rather than recontextualizations of things we already know.

    That said, God Damn, Dorff and Mahershala kill it in that last scene. The acting alone in this show makes it worth it. Roland's monologue when he breaks his genial front was reminiscent of Kevin confronting Nora in The Leftovers finale and it got me right in the gut.
    NaugustineCorycalebthrowertom_gMurderbearPangs
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    Roland’s girlfriend mentioned she was a
    poultry scientists. I wonder if we will find out she worked at the Hoyt Chicken Factory. Not sure what it would mean but they didn’t drop that for nothing
    telephoneofmadnessLeahra821
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    edited February 2
    That said, God Damn, Dorff and Mahershala kill it in that last scene. The acting alone in this show makes it worth it.
    I just finished watching it.

    Wayne's whole... thing.  He can't remember what happened to/with his daughter, what he did to Roland.    A very scary thing to me, is losing one's mind.

    And, for better or worse, he's dragging Roland back into it.


    Edit:  And that phone call to the hotline they had Tom listen to.
  • Fuck, this season has been so damn good.
    telephoneofmadness
  • edited February 2
    Guys I've been smelling the psychosphere pretty hard tonight, and I think through complete bullshit theorizing I may have stumbled on a real cultural reference that may inform the season and I want to get your opinions:

    So I'm digging the Warren Zevon at the end of the episode, and I pull up his discography on Spotify and I'm reminded of the song "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner." Now the song is basically about a radical mercenary, it doesn't seem to tie to our Roland much. However, I was caught by a reference in the last verse.

    "In Palestine and Berkley, Patty Hearst heard the burst of Roland's Thompson Gun and bought it."

    Now I am aware that that is a complete bullshit way to tie to Patty Hearst, but I went down a hole here and there just seems to be a lot of dots that connect, but I can't quite make the picture:

       - Obviously, a girl is kidnapped
       - Hearst was kidnapped by Symbionese Liberation Army, a leftist group formed out in the Bay Area in the 70's, which she later may have joined
       - Amelia says she got involved with a fringe group in SF, bad things happened, she was alone, and she came home in '74. The same year as Hearst's kidnapping, participation in SLA's Hibernia Bank robbery, and finally a raid on the SLA which killed a majority of the members
       - Hearst was famously captured on black and white CCTV during the bank robbery, similar to Julie at the Walgreens
       - Hearst renounced her given name, similar to Julie this episode
       - Hearst released a tape rebuking her loved one's appeals through the media (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/history/patty-hearsts-shocking-words-after-robbing/)
       - Evidence found suggested an action was planned by the SLA for the "full moon of January 17" in 1974, nothing happened until February 4 (Hearst's kidnapping). Neither of these days were full moons.  
       - Hearst was eventually pardoned by the twice referenced Bill Clinton
       - I can't confirm this related to the SLA, but the news clip linked earlier shows a brown sedan conspicuously pulled up at an angle at the scene of bank robbery

    I don't know what this means if anything, but given the way Pizzolatto seemingly lifted the West Memphis Three story only to subvert the conclusion, I feel like it might be actually relevant as well.
    DoubleA_RonNaugustinetelephoneofmadnessKate23
  • MichelleMichelle California
    That said, God Damn, Dorff and Mahershala kill it in that last scene. The acting alone in this show makes it worth it. Roland's monologue when he breaks his genial front was reminiscent of Kevin confronting Nora in The Leftovers finale and it got me right in the gut.
    I mean... I'm blown away.  That was f'ing amazing. If either or both don't get an Emmy or Globe from it, I'll be shocked. This made me want to watch more of Mahershala's work.  He's so good.


    johnnytruantDoubleA_Rongguenot
  • Michelle said:
    That said, God Damn, Dorff and Mahershala kill it in that last scene. The acting alone in this show makes it worth it. Roland's monologue when he breaks his genial front was reminiscent of Kevin confronting Nora in The Leftovers finale and it got me right in the gut.
    I mean... I'm blown away.  That was f'ing amazing. If either or both don't get an Emmy or Globe from it, I'll be shocked. This made me want to watch more of Mahershala's work.  He's so good.


    He's been outstanding in everything I've seen him in. In the last two years he's become one of my favorites. The man is a great actor. 
    RyanReesemanMichelledjcaudle01
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    The fucking writing oh my lord.

    I counted 3 amazing dialogues. Purple and Woodard.  Purple and his wife in the 90s. That was so real with the kids and the “no goodnights before I love yous”. And the end with old men Purple and Roland.

    This is top notch shit.  It might ruin the rest of television for me how well this season has been written. 


    DoubleA_RonDeeMichelle
  • Yes it's really something when you see them bringing each other to tears on that porch. 

    Since the first episode, I've been much more interested in the evolution of Wayne and Wayne/Roland, than the crime mystery itself. BUT, I can see how some folks might feel short-changed by this season's emphasis on the leads, given the series title after all.
    Personally I like the balance. And watching Wayne go from dogged detective living a decently balanced life in the 80s, to more and more feeing the pressures of a sidelined career and family responsibility in the 90s, and then the mental struggle he has now. 
    Amelia just wouldn't take the hint at that dinner, it pissed me off too!

    Crime mystery aside, I hope we learn more about just why the crime show folks are doing this now, with Wayne. Did something happen to bring it back in the news? I don't think it started with the Henry, as they approached Roland as well. That's a slow drip. 
  • I'm really enjoying the writing and the performances this season. Went into this for the mystery but end up being blown away from two great actors in what all buddy cop flicks should be. The mystery is good but those two together really capture the cop partner's bond.

    My father was a police detective for 40 years and my mother always called my father's partner his other wife. They didn't talk to each other for 5 years over a stupid argument but his partner was the one bringing cops over to visit every day when my father was dying and the two of them picked up where they left off like nothing happened.
    MichellecalebthrowercdriveDoubleA_Ron
  • Wayne done Roland bad in a way that bros rarely forget.

    Guess we will see all the gory details soon.

    Great scene - Leftovers level emotion.
    Michellegguenot
  • Best acting I have ever seen. Holy shit.
    gguenotnstinson
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    My Completely Incorrect Theory:

    The TV producer is not dating Henry. She's dating Becca and Henry knows it. Becca is in town and they're keeping that information from Wayne.  The second wine glass was hers.
    MichellemylifeaskirktelephoneofmadnessrhcoopMoonMan13
  • I’d been really impressed by Ali all show, but thought Dorff was kind of doing an impression. A good one, but something wasn’t totally hitting for me. But that scene on the porch was outstanding by both.

     I just wish Dorff’s makeup was better.
    DoubleA_RonMurderbear
  • My Completely Incorrect Theory:

    The TV producer is not dating Henry. She's dating Becca and Henry knows it. Becca is in town and they're keeping that information from Wayne.  The second wine glass was hers.
    Yesssss. This is why she and Wayne don't talk.
  • So I had a theory that when they play the tape for Tom and julie says "the man on TV pretending to be my father" that she is not actually talking about Tom but the guy who comes up to the mic after him, Attorney General Kindt.

    Did some googlin and seems Vanity Fair already had this theory mapped out:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/02/true-detective-hoyt-daughter-gerald-kindt-bill-clinton-lucy-purcell-harris-james

    mylifeaskirkMichelleLeahra821Pangs
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    BroRad33 said:

    So I had a theory that when they play the tape for Tom and julie says "the man on TV pretending to be my father" that she is not actually talking about Tom but the guy who comes up to the mic after him, Attorney General Kindt.

    Did some googlin and seems Vanity Fair already had this theory mapped out:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/02/true-detective-hoyt-daughter-gerald-kindt-bill-clinton-lucy-purcell-harris-james

    yeh I was getting the vibe too.  It was too teasing to not think it. 
    mylifeaskirkBroRad33
  • Two thoughts:

    1. I think this season is shaping up to easily pass Season 1; excellent writing and acting. I thought the dinner scene was especially well written. They nailed both sides being at fault for that argument in such a short period of time. Wayne didnt need to reprimand/escalate it to where he did and Amelia took it one step too far repeatedly asking questions about the case.

    2. When Wayne says "this generation is a bunch of pussies" it made me think/realize that every generation probably says that about the generation that comes after them
    BroRad33Michelletelephoneofmadness
  • I don't buy Lucy's overdose; who killed her? Probably the same person(s) who got rid of Harris James, I'm thinking. 

    That scene at Woodard's was incredible, very Very realistic and crazy tense no matter how many times I watch it. No big fake fireball; big concussive explosions and scary real-time chaos and tension all the way to Wayne's collapse against the wall. 
    Michelletelephoneofmadness
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I agree with the Lucy OD. When they showed the picture, I don't know, it looked a little too perfect. I feel like whoever put Will's backpack under Woodard's porch is the same one who set up Lucy's death scene.
    Michellemylifeaskirktelephoneofmadness
  • MichelleMichelle California
    My theories have been evolving from episode to episode but I really like what Vanity Fair has put forth.  So now I'm thinking maybe it was Harris James that planted the evidence at Woodard's house *and* also killed Lucy.  I think he was killed not by Hays & West but by whoever he was working for, so that he couldn't talk to any authorities or reveal evidence tying the crimes back to the big bad.  Still, then what is Hays & West's big 'thing' that they've kept hidden?
    telephoneofmadness
  • Michelle said:
    My theories have been evolving from episode to episode but I really like what Vanity Fair has put forth.  So now I'm thinking maybe it was Harris James that planted the evidence at Woodard's house *and* also killed Lucy.  I think he was killed not by Hays & West but by whoever he was working for, so that he couldn't talk to any authorities or reveal evidence tying the crimes back to the big bad.  Still, then what is Hays & West's big 'thing' that they've kept hidden?

     The way I see it Hays & West killed either the agent or the uncle. I would lean towards killing the uncle because the way they were talking about his body found in the drained quarry but could go either way.

    They might have killed agent because they found out he was the one who planted evidence.
    Michelletelephoneofmadness
  • CapeGabe said:
    Michelle said:
    My theories have been evolving from episode to episode but I really like what Vanity Fair has put forth.  So now I'm thinking maybe it was Harris James that planted the evidence at Woodard's house *and* also killed Lucy.  I think he was killed not by Hays & West but by whoever he was working for, so that he couldn't talk to any authorities or reveal evidence tying the crimes back to the big bad.  Still, then what is Hays & West's big 'thing' that they've kept hidden?

     The way I see it Hays & West killed either the agent or the uncle. I would lean towards killing the uncle because the way they were talking about his body found in the drained quarry but could go either way.

    They might have killed agent because they found out he was the one who planted evidence.
    I got the same impression.  The way they spoke of the drained quarry seemed very first hand to me.


  • It does seem like the revelation of the uncle's body is what makes Hays mumble something about having to tell Roland so I'm onboard with the idea they killed him. What I'm curious about it what Hays did to Roland. It doesn't seem like Hays went crazy and killed the uncle on his own, because they both refer whatever their secret is as what "they've" done. Maybe it's just him walking away? But that also seems like a separate point of contention for Roland as well.
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Maybe Roland was trying for a higher powered job or position and something happened with the case that prevented him from moving forward with it?  We know he had aspirations.
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    Sean T Collins review draws some pretty big conclusions he seems to think are obvious:

    He’s so bitter, in fact, that he doesn’t even read the thing until 2015, thus missing a key piece of evidence: Lucy Purcell, the kids’ mother, sent the “CHILDREN SHOULD LAUGH” note that they’d believed was from the kidnappers in a misguided attempt to ease her estranged husband Tom‘s pain.

    And:

    That leaves the partners’ long awaited reunion in 2015. It’s endearing to watch these two old men (with Stephen Dorff sporting age makeup nearly as good as Ali’s) attempt to bury the hatchet, even though Wayne doesn’t even remember why they stopped talking. But if you listen to their dialogue, it sure looks like our heroes are conspiring to keep covering up two murders they themselves committed: the creepy cousin of the kids’ mom and a fellow officer who may have planted the evidence used to frame the Trashman.

    When Lucy said that line matching the note it was weird and definitely intentionally placed, but WTF? She wrote the note thinking it would help?
  • When Lucy said that line matching the note it was weird and definitely intentionally placed, but WTF? She wrote the note thinking it would help?
    I'm confused by this as well. When Hays said that, I assumed it was to show him fucking up and jumping to conclusions. Lucy would be familiar with the letter/phrase when she repeats it to Amelia, right? She certainly could have still written it, but  I don't think it's definitive. It will be disappointing if this is just taken as fact going forward.
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