308 - "Now Am Found"

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Comments

  • I think Harris killed Lucy and staged it as an OD because once she comes back asking for more cash or she’ll expose the truth she’ll just keep coming back if you give in, and thus killing Tom and staging it as a suicide is just part of the same pattern of behavior and not crossing a new threshold for Harris.

    I don’t buy that Tom was confronted with the truth in the Pink Room, was trusted to leave on his own, and goes back to the tower in the woods to blow his brains out. Because I don’t buy that it just makes more sense he’d already done something similar with Lucy.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    If they had just shown Tom breaking into the house and snooping around and then Harris comes in from behind at the last second, it could MAYBE be a little ambiguous that he did or did not kill Tom. However, the shot of his hand while he smokes a cigarette watching Tom bumble his way into the pink room on the security cameras shows that this was a trap they had set for him and was just waiting to get rid of him for good.
    Underwood
  • OMG guys... leave Harris alone! ;_;
  • OMG guys... leave Harris alone! ;_;
    This whole season could just be seen as a kind of meditation on assumptions: how it tears down people from one-on-one relationships to whole communities. We’re all still filling in holes with things we can’t prove. The questions about Tom and Lucy’s deaths are the big ones.
    telephoneofmadness
  • Too clean for me. Everybody lives happily ever after, including the girl who watched her brother die and then spends 10 years locked in a pink room. 

    I wish Wayne had an episode and accidentally shoots Roland or his daughter, that would have made more sense to me rather than everybody sharing tea on the front porch. Are there no consequences for anything?! ie family letting Wayne have a gun with his condition, everybody getting away with killing/abducting kids, covering up crimes.

    Great acting, and overall a decent series but Umbrella Academy was 10 times the show this was. 
  • Tom Purcell, Lucy Purcell, Brett Woodard, Harris James, and Dan O’Brien called: they didn’t get their happy ever after in the mail.
    mylifeaskirkMoonMan13
  • Initially I had the reaction of a little disappointment and bait and switch on the “big mystery” but if you think of the name True Detective, sometimes the reality is that there is no longer anyone to punish, and arguably the biggest tragedy is that individuals spent their lives trying to solve it. 

    It is not a big dramatic conclusion but it’s a final outcome which is probably more common than we think and still compelling from the perspective of the detectives. IMO
  • Loved the pod today. I enjoy the level of theorizing this season.

    My only thought on Henry pocketing the address/paper was that it implied he would personally investigate it and learn that his father did finally succeed. So someone would know, even if Wayne forgets, and who better?
    Kate23
  • This season is only redeemed by the acting. If you swap Ali, Dorff, McNairy and Ejojo with Vaugh, Kitsch, Farrel and McAdams we'd have fond memories of s2 and think this one was crap.

    Also, anyone else feel that the documentarian is essentially Pizzolato throwing shade at the audience? Here's this lady obsessed with the story of season 1 trying to figure out everything and, whoops, turns out she is completely off, even if she is, in the words of Henry, exciting.
    BroRad33
  • So I've been pondering why I didn't have the connection to this finale as most of the BM community and ARON did. I can appreciate the art of this season and a look at dementia. Jim helping me understand Wayne Vietnam flashback gave me more appreciation, BUT everything is TOO CLEAN. AND if you're going to tell this story and have it be somewhat of a mystery, you have to explain how Julie Purcell can have an adult life and STILL HAVE HER DISAPPEARENCE be a unsolved. I would have liked and think the story could have been better if Waynes son knew it was solved but let his dad go through this in order to remember his mom, but stop it short of breaking into Hoyts and approaching Julie.

    Some plot holes for me - adult Julie has a kid, one thing my wife and I had to do when we had our kids were submit fingerprints at the hospital. Also when getting a drivers license and voting and probably a number of other things require you to submit your fingerprints. When they run them they'd find out the samething that we did in the 90s that Julie Purcell is alive. Cops would come, and open up the case again, media would catch wind of it and its a pretty simple case to solve with Julie as the witness. Also, Hoyts house with the pink room is STILL standing. I can't believe SOMEONE wouldn't walk around and notice a vault door leading to a pink room with an incriminating mural there, and still keep it quiet. Harris family, wife and daughters, cool with their husband/father disappearing, cops wouldn't get called and we know Wayne and Roland car on video.

    I could go on with the issues I have with the story and poke more holes in the plot. My issue is it was forced to be a clean story and there is no way it could be.
  • edited February 2019
    @rustywright4 In the New York area and don't recall submitting my fingerprints when my boo and I had our kid. They took my kid's prints but not ours.

    I suppose other states do this? 
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @rustywright4 You got fingerprinted when you had a baby??? Am I the only one who finds that really weird? 
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited February 2019
    Dee said:
    @rustywright4 You got fingerprinted when you had a baby??? Am I the only one who finds that really weird? 
    definitely didn't happen to me in Australia when my two boys were born...Maybe a American thing. 

    @rustywright4
    there are definitely some issues you have to either agree with the explanation or overlook.

    we clearly see the town is dead. they even say it was murdered. it is basically empty except for Pumpkin lady. so its quite possible that the Hoyt mansion was just left alone as another dead property in the midst of thousands of ones. it was held in the estate. and i read all the time about how "the estate" whether its grandchildren or another family member just throws shit away. thats why there is a whole economy of second hand stores these days. plus since the town is dead, its not like they had any incentive to put money into the mansion, fix it up and sell it. they probably just let it die with the town. and since no one considered the Hoyts as involved there would be no reason for anyone to go looking for evidence there. now, wouldn't there have been like ghost hunters or those photographers that specialize in taking pictures of decrepit, run down places. maybe. but i accept the theory the town was dead and it was just rotting away. And even if we say a ghost hunter found the room in like 2007 or whenever it was abandoned would they even know of the 1990 case? And to them it  probably was just some rich person creepy room. The pink room is only known to the detectives. I don’t think there was much evidence there besides maybe a photo. 

     Julie maybe gave birth at home. Happens alot. especially nowadays with all the crunchy moms. she doesn't need to vote and probably doesnt want to step into a police station or go anywhere near a place she might get recogonized. it did look like they were at least partially living off the land, planting stuff. maybe she is just forced to have to pay medical bills out of pocket. or once again, she is crunchy. 

    EDIT: my biggest issue is the fact she named the daughter lucy. i agree with others, it should have been a boy named Tom. im sure they did it to make the connection easier. but that bitch does not deserve her granddaughter to be named after her. 
    Dee
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Dee said:
    @rustywright4 You got fingerprinted when you had a baby??? Am I the only one who finds that really weird? 
    Nope
    Dee
  • The nuns at the convent could have switched her identity with some other poor lady who did actually die from AIDS there and was okay with the arrangement and who is buried in the grave.
  • Am I crazy or was the nun that spoke to old Wayne and old Roland in 2015 the woman that spoke to Amelia in the 90’s as a teen?
  • Finishing up the podcast now - I was thinking the actors for the ghosts were supposed to be different than the actors for the characters they represented as a kind of Fog of Memory thing. The presumed Woodard ghost is not actually Woodard, so I thought the suited guy was Harris James. 
  • So I've been pondering why I didn't have the connection to this finale as most of the BM community and ARON did. I can appreciate the art of this season and a look at dementia. Jim helping me understand Wayne Vietnam flashback gave me more appreciation, BUT everything is TOO CLEAN. AND if you're going to tell this story and have it be somewhat of a mystery, you have to explain how Julie Purcell can have an adult life and STILL HAVE HER DISAPPEARENCE be a unsolved. I would have liked and think the story could have been better if Waynes son knew it was solved but let his dad go through this in order to remember his mom, but stop it short of breaking into Hoyts and approaching Julie.

    Some plot holes for me - adult Julie has a kid, one thing my wife and I had to do when we had our kids were submit fingerprints at the hospital. Also when getting a drivers license and voting and probably a number of other things require you to submit your fingerprints. When they run them they'd find out the samething that we did in the 90s that Julie Purcell is alive. Cops would come, and open up the case again, media would catch wind of it and its a pretty simple case to solve with Julie as the witness. Also, Hoyts house with the pink room is STILL standing. I can't believe SOMEONE wouldn't walk around and notice a vault door leading to a pink room with an incriminating mural there, and still keep it quiet. Harris family, wife and daughters, cool with their husband/father disappearing, cops wouldn't get called and we know Wayne and Roland car on video.

    I could go on with the issues I have with the story and poke more holes in the plot. My issue is it was forced to be a clean story and there is no way it could be.

    Some potential answers to your plot holes:

    As others stated, not sure how common the parents getting finger printed at a hospital is.  But Julie easily could have had a home birth or maybe went to the convent and they helped her give birth.

    Drivers license- quite possible that Julie doesn't drive and is a stay at home mother and Mike provides what they need at the house (in terms of getting stuff with a car).

    Voting- once again, quite possible Julie isn't voting either.

    Hoys House- assuming it's in the same town, then yeah, they mentioned the town was a ghost town for all intents and purposes.  However, this could be a decent point as kids could easily go there and find the room and tell someone about what they saw.  But at the same point, it could also be a case of people sticking to their own business and not saying anything even if they went there and saw it.

    Harris disappearance- unless Hoyt is helping the police, the cops at that point weren't going to find Harris.  Hoyt has the video of Roland and Hays car following Harris as he leaves.  And Hoyt has the GPS coordinates.  If he chooses to no get involved, then he easily can delete the video tape of the car and delete the GPS tracking thing.  Without those, there is no evidence as to what happened with Harris.  Only if maybe the cops stumble upon the barn and find some DNA samples or something.  But this was also back in 1990 and not 2019 and this is not CSI or Law and Order where stuff magically turns up quickly and easily.  I mean, Hays burns his clothes to destroy evidence, so you would have to think that Roland and Hays would have been careful to clean up the barn area as well.

  • So fingerprinting when having a baby is another way to make sure there is no mix up of babies and parents in the hospital. I’ve been researching and it’s a thing. I believe I remember having to do it when I was checking in, but everything’s a whirlwind when you’re getting ready to go through childbirth. Also I read that hospitals use it as way to keep track of drugs given, procedures done and billing in the hospital. 

    But that hat was just one point, there’s probably countless others where Julie would be found, they’d have to work really hard to stay off the grid IMO. Anyway I found out why I had trouble with the finale, I’m happy to have expierenied this show with BM.

    But to me it’s giving a wrong message about kidnapping. 
    Dee
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    edited February 2019
    In regards to the question @Jim posed on the podcast, I’ll offer my thoughts...

    I did nothing beyond watching each episode and listening to the accompanying BM podcast each week.  I didn’t touch Reddit or any other media source, and I barely even skimmed through the threads on here... so no dabbling in theorycrafting and very little sniffing of the psychosphere.

    As I stated earlier in this thread, S3 >= S1 for me, so it’s safe to say that the podcast absolutely did not diminish my enjoyment of this season in the slightest; if anything, it greatly enhanced my appreciation.
    Murderbear
  • edited February 2019
    So fingerprinting when having a baby is another way to make sure there is no mix up of babies and parents in the hospital. I’ve been researching and it’s a thing. I believe I remember having to do it when I was checking in, but everything’s a whirlwind when you’re getting ready to go through childbirth. Also I read that hospitals use it as way to keep track of drugs given, procedures done and billing in the hospital. 

    Depending on how long this occurred for you, i would guess most places have gone more digital these days in terms of bar codes and scanning.

    Also, to add to @Jim point, I think for any shows, it depends on how much a person wants to dive into it.  If you want to dive completely in and read every theory out there, then sure you're going to probably stumble onto a theory that is correct and then when you see it happen on the show, you're going to be like "yeah, i read that already, oh well".  But to listen to just you and Aron talk, I didn't feel cheated or felt that you guys gave too much info or research into the podcast.  I personally don't really go deep diving into reddit or look online for theories.  I'd rather listen to a podcast or 2 and let the podcast introduce me to any theories that are out there and then from there digest the theory and think if i buy into it or not.  But I'm also not the type to screen shot thing to see what books a character is reading and how they plays into the storyline and such.

    Aww_PHuuCkKate23
  • edited February 2019
    Also on the @Jim thing, I listen to podcasts for enhancement. From the start, & my comment on the first 2 episodes said this, I was more invested in the Wayne & Roland story and Wayne's character progress, than the crime itself. That didn't change; but the podcasts I listened to gave me broader perspective on things. Like, I'm not as forgiving of Amelia as A.Ron: She's a smart woman; did she Have to go to the press with something she knew would blow back on Wayne, especially since she's already writing a book about it?  But the podcast helped me appreciate how even-handed the writing was, casting blame and praise for both Amelia and Wayne.

    My predisposition about the series meant I was fine with the last episode, seeing it as more of a post-credit "where are they now" summary. I'm glad the series focused more on the characters, because I think focusing heavily on the crime would've brought inevitable comparisons to S1 crime thrill, and a who wore it better debate. I can't imagine where he'd take the series from here though. 

    P.s., I thought Becca was portrayed perfectly and consistently, even from childhood. I saw her as a gentle soul and a conflict-avoider...When Wayne grabs her in Walmart she doesn't stomp her foot and say I was just looking at toys! She cries. When her parents are fighting she just wants everyone to make up. When she's leaving for college she doesn't want to go, but she does. I don't think as an adult she moved away because of a problem, I just think she's avoiding the pain and heartache of losing her dad. I've seen this a lot in a few years working with the elderly...some family members just stop showing up because it's too painful, some stop because they think they can get give up as their loved one doesn't remember anyway. There's no blame in either case. 
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Adding some levity.  This is from Roland West's Facebook page:


    mylifeaskirkMurderbear
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