My Star Wars New Trilogy Rant

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  • Getting away from the Skywalker/Chosen One trope would be helpful.  I'm very receptive to non-Force focused Star Wars movies.
    CretanBull
  • Hatorian said:
    Before 7. Disney purchases Star Wars. Here is where we really get to the major problem. While Kevin Feig who runs the MCU runs a tight ship and builds a cohesive narrative the Stars Universe gets Kantleen Kennedy who does not. They decide that the sequel trilogy should not have a prepared theme/story. They decide to let each movie stand on its own and give the directors their own creative control. They do not put a single power in charge of mapping out a coherent story and then letting the directors add their flavour. So we get the sequels trilogy. An unorganised mess 


    7. Now here is where we start to get to the problems regarding the sequel trilogy. Doesn’t matter if Abrhams or Disney is at fault. But rehashing a new hope was a horrible idea and made no sense. Making the new order as powerful as the empire went against everything we saw at the end of 6. And no you cannot fill the gaps with books. It needs to be on screen. It’s just a lazy rehash. Now on top  of this lazy rehash. Abrams decides to Paint our favourite hero Luke in a corner by making a storyline that he has run away, but conviently leaves a map to be found...yea ok.... So before you start hating on Rian Johnson, realise Abrams wrote Luke into a corner and fucked Johnson on how to make it work..

    8. Now we are supposed to believe after the resistance destroys starkiller base they are on the run and losing the war? Huh? So the first order is soooo strong they can lose their giant weapon and still be winning the war. WTF? So then we finally get to Luke. Which I will defend Rian Johnson was put into a Writers corner by Abrams. He had to make Luke out to be this guy who made mistakes and was despondent. Yet why the map? Oh we never get that answer. Don’t worry though. It’s all Rians fault. So then we get this whole storyline of Luke has given in which completely contradicts his previous arc.

    and I’m not even mad about that. People change and people get pessimistic. But then the final act is Luke going to Leia and saying he can’t save Ben? And doesn’t even try? That’s just 100% against the characters core values and beliefs. Now the first order is basically the empire and the resistance is the alliance. Episode 9 sounds exciting! 

    ultimately It comes down to 3 things.

    1. Disney fucked up by not putting a person/team in charge of mapping out the story arc and letting directors fill the creative differences 
    2. JJ and the Writers of 7 totally fucked the entire sequel trilogy by rehashing a new hope and writing Luke into a corner 
    3. Rian while, put into a shitty position with Luke got a big fucking head and decided to flip the entire story and characters for whatever reason and ruined the legacy


    We had one....one fucking chance....to see Luke, Leia, Han, and the other original characters on screen for one moment and they fucked it up. It’s the biggest middle finger to Star Wars fans. It can’t be undone. 
    I don’t envy JJ. I wish I could write the story for 9 but obviously I can’t. But it’s going to be a tall order to raise this shitty destroyed X-wing from the waters. 

    Totally agree that from 7 to 9, there should have been 1 mastermind to have all the pieces in the puzzle mapped out and then allow a director to add their spin or extra touch to flesh things out.

    7- Can't say I ever thought about the map thing before, but yeah, very solid point.  Who made the map?  Did Luke?  If so, then he wanted to be found but acted like he didn't?  If Luke didn't make it, then who did and how did they know where to find Luke?

    8- I'l disagree with regards to the strength of the First Order.  While I see your point, you'll also note that in episode 4, the rebels destroy the death star but in episode 5, the rebels are still very clearly losing the war.  So, I can give some creative license to the First Order being able to move on after losing their big new huge weapon.  The bigger problem with the First Order is how did they even rise to any power in the first place.  How did the new republic (after episode 6) allow something like this to happen so soon?  Was the First Order just sitting on the sidelines waiting for the Empire to collapse?  Are they remnants of the old Empire trying to regain power?  Don't think this is ever fleshed out (maybe in the books, which i can't say I've read).  Additionally, i felt like there is more of Snoke that we need to learn other than him just being a dude that had great force powers but then gets killed.

    Additionally, for 8, I don't have a problem with Luke being a recluse.  Every person has their breaking point and Luke reached his when he sensed that Ben was going to turn and betray him.  So, no issues with Luke deciding to check out on everyone.  

    Lastly, unless Luke was appearing in episode 7, then the gang was not going to get a reunion.  While surprised that Han got killed in episode 7, Harrison Ford was doing interviews (prior to 7 coming out) that he wished that Han had been killed in episode 6.  So, in hind sight, that was his way of wink wink, Han ain't surviving this one.  So, I don't think a reunion was going to happen unless Han comes back as a force ghost as well.

    I'm still highly anticipating episode 9 though.  Looking forward to seeing the conclusion of this story.  At this point, I've invested too much time (but also note, i can be like this for things like tv shows where i'm no longer enjoying the series but will grind it out to see how the end it). 

  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    I had high hopes for the new series. I enjoyed TFA and Rogue but Last Jedi was such a disappointment and Solo couldn’t hold my interest. When I was kid I saw the first movie the day it was in limited release and a dozen times that year. I was the perfect age of nine when it came out. Now I guess I don’t think Stats Wars isn’t for me anymore. 
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited December 2019
    Guess I’ll put this here. 

    My kids just happened to be rewatching TLJ and I hadn’t seen it for a while. I have to say the “falling bombs” in the beginning have at least 2 possible explanations and that criticism seems extremely nitpicky and baseless to me now. More importantly I didn’t even think to explain them the first couple of times I saw it. 

    You could go with a very localized gravity field since other things are falling inside the ship, and therefore the bombs just continue on their trajectory once in “space” - but it also appears the bombs are on tracks which more or less push them out in a sequence. 


    Hatorian
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Some criticisms of TLJ are enormously nitpicky, but I don't think that means people are trying to nitpick. Aron said, and I agree with him, that when people don't like something that start to notice the flaws. I think the better explanation is that people nitpick when they don't have the vocabulary to explain why a story isn't working for them.
    chriskRyanReesemanCretanBull
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    Yeah, I get that. It’s just seems to me this is one criticism that is fairly common yet easy to account for without much effort. 

    I find the Holdo maneuver criticisms more understandable, even if I disagree with them. 
    JaimieT
  • chrisk said:
    Yeah, I get that. It’s just seems to me this is one criticism that is fairly common yet easy to account for without much effort. 

    I find the Holdo maneuver criticisms more understandable, even if I disagree with them. 
    The main issue with the Holdo manuever is that it's too realistic - if you're doing galactic warfare you aren't gonna bother with lasers and shit (except maybe with ship-to-ship combat if lasers are way faster than kinetic weapons and the ships are really maneuverable), you're going to use kinetic weapons because they have essentially unlimited range and exponentially increasing destructive power based on size and speed. If you wanted to kill a planet you wouldn't build a death star you'd launch 30 asteroids at it as fast as you could get them to go. 
    JaimieTHatorian
  • If you're watching a movie about intergalactic space wars involving wizards with light swords and you're hung up on how bombs overcome gravity you've already checked out of the movie.
    CapeGabeRyanReesemanrkcrawf
  • Hatorian said:
    Attack of the clones is just bad. They try to tell a love story and they fail. But it doesn’t ruin any character. And it progresses the story as it should. Just not in the best way possible. 
    It's been a while but my recollection is the commentary improved my appreciation of this movie.  There was a lot that didn't make it on screen. 
  • A) Hatorian’s original post is spot on about the problem with The New Trilogy (Kathleen Kennedy’s approach)

    B) I imagine Disney remade A New Hope as TFA bc they want a new, younger audience (I mean market for new toys...my toddlers know R2, but they love BB8). 

    C) The good guys need to be the underdog to recreate ANH. This explains why the First Order is so powerful (plot requires it) and why the Resistance is on the run in TLJ. I do find it ironic that OP questions why the Resistance is on the run after destroying the First Order’s super weapon, when that is the EXACT dynamic of ANH and Empire!!! I think the Mandalorian attempts to explain that Empire was a stabilizing force in the galaxy, and the Rebels didn’t replace it. So chaos reigned, like the Middle East (I hope that isn’t a spoiler).

    D) Look to the Expanse for realism in space battles. Not Star Wars. One is sci fi and the other is fantasy. Falling bombs in space is dumb. 
    Hatorian
  • Is falling bombs really physics breaking? Doesn’t momentum continue in space?
  • If I ever saw a Star Destroyer do a Flip and Burn maneuver in a movie I'd know someone dosed me.
    rkcrawfJaimieT
  • gguenot said:
    Is falling bombs really physics breaking? Doesn’t momentum continue in space?
    There is preservation of momentum in an inertial frame of reference, but without gravity (or a force acting on it) a bomb would just float when released...but the entire movie is physics breaking.  It's a Samurai/Western fantasy movie set in space...viewers either need to buy-in to that or bow out.
    rkcrawf
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    I guess I’m not a fan of Star Wars. I thought I was but I don’t think I’ve liked any movies since the second movie. I tried to like them I’ve seen every one except Solo. I liked Rogue One but does that count. I was nine years old when the first movie came out and I was sold on it. When ROTJ came out I was put off by the cute Ewoks and well I guess my teenage bad attitude just didn’t care for it. I tried to get hyped for the prequels. I went to the first midnight showing at my theater. I went home disappointed. 

    Now I compre that for my love for Star Trek and I think I would say that I’m somewhat a fan. Not a Trekkie but A fan. Some of the first memories of TV were watching Trek repeats. I saw all the movies on video and a couple in theaters. I don’t think they were all good but all were watchable. Five was the only real bad one for me. I read a number of the books and I have had some merch. The reboots are all fine but I’ve have not watched the new TV series. 

    In the end I think my expectations for Star Wars were to high. I think they should be with all the media hype and what not. Maybe it was just Sci-fi pulp not some on the level of 2001 or the classic books like I robot. Then I think Lucas came out of the group which included Spielberg and Scorsese. That’s a high bar of excellence. Anyway I think I got my rant in. Live long and prosper.


  • DoubleTDoubleT Melbourne, Australia
    I can’t buy the excuse for the prequels “it was for kids”. If it was for kids what’s with the boring scenes of political procedure? Or the multiple instances of kiddie murder. A guy being dismembered & burned alive. The new movies have their issues but to me they’re still light years ahead of the atrocious prequels.
    JaimieTrkcrawf
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Agreed -- bullshit excuse. The sequel trilogy is bad but it's much better.
  • lengmo said:
    Hatorian said:
    Attack of the clones is just bad. They try to tell a love story and they fail. But it doesn’t ruin any character. And it progresses the story as it should. Just not in the best way possible. 
    It's been a while but my recollection is the commentary improved my appreciation of this movie.  There was a lot that didn't make it on screen. 
    I’ve actually come to enjoy it since my “rant”. My update to this would be 9 disappointed and the sequel trilogy and prequel trilogy are both bad and good in their own ways. They just could never live up to the originals and honestly it’s probably my fault for getting my hopes up to high 
  • It felt like I was virtually alone in how terrible I thought 7 was.  I think JJ ruined every character and completely shit on the movies that I loved so much. 

    Return of the Jedi has a great ending.  Every character's arc is completed.  Everyone's story has been told.  There's resolution on all fronts.  The closing few seconds show the heroes together and happy.  Han and Leia are in love, Ben, Anakin, and Yoda are reunited, R2-D2 and C-3PO are dancing and Luke is taking it all in with the satisfaction of a job well done.  Luke went through hell, but everything he was experiencing in that moment made it all worthwhile.  It was a fairy tale ending.

    Then epsiode7 comes along.

    Han and Leia?  Nope, they're not in love - they're divorced.  The ship that Han loves?  That's gone too, someone stole it from him.  At least he's got a son to love.  Nope, his son is a psychopathic killer.  Wow, that sucks but it's going to be awesome to see Han restored to his former glory.  Nope, he dies. 
    As someone who like Force Awakens and not Last Jedi I have to ask: what you're describing sounds like...subverted expectations.  So why do people fawn over Rian Johnson for doing just that and yet they accuse Abrams of "rehashing" A New Hope?

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    ken hale said:
    It felt like I was virtually alone in how terrible I thought 7 was.  I think JJ ruined every character and completely shit on the movies that I loved so much. 

    Return of the Jedi has a great ending.  Every character's arc is completed.  Everyone's story has been told.  There's resolution on all fronts.  The closing few seconds show the heroes together and happy.  Han and Leia are in love, Ben, Anakin, and Yoda are reunited, R2-D2 and C-3PO are dancing and Luke is taking it all in with the satisfaction of a job well done.  Luke went through hell, but everything he was experiencing in that moment made it all worthwhile.  It was a fairy tale ending.

    Then epsiode7 comes along.

    Han and Leia?  Nope, they're not in love - they're divorced.  The ship that Han loves?  That's gone too, someone stole it from him.  At least he's got a son to love.  Nope, his son is a psychopathic killer.  Wow, that sucks but it's going to be awesome to see Han restored to his former glory.  Nope, he dies. 
    As someone who like Force Awakens and not Last Jedi I have to ask: what you're describing sounds like...subverted expectations.  So why do people fawn over Rian Johnson for doing just that and yet they accuse Abrams of "rehashing" A New Hope?


    Can I answer this? Because people suck at verbalizing why they like something as much as why they dislike something. "Both sides" have artistically illiterate.
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