Is the Three-Eyed Raven the show's biggest problem?

I loved last night's episode. I have almost no complaints. And my complaint is really more an issue with how the show goes out of its way to avoid explaining how the fantasy elements work while simultaneously leaning into them. For instance, if Bran knows Jaime is on his way to Winterfell, why doesn't he know that Cersei's army isn't on its way? Would that be the kind of thing he should tell Jon (or have Sam tell Jon)? Shouldn't he know where the Army of the Dead is? Why not warn the Last Hearth/Umber's about the threat? Why does he need to sit outside all day waiting? Wouldn't he know exactly when Jaime was going to arrive? I wish that I didn't have to wonder if/when/how/why/etc with Bran all of the time. His character seems to be the show's biggest weakness as far as I can tell. 
SanguinePenguin

Comments

  • He's  Dr Branhattan now
    SanguinePenguincalebthrowerMurderbearDoctor_NickFlukesCeciliaMtelephoneofmadness
  • calebthrowercalebthrower South Carolina
    I loved last night's episode. I have almost no complaints. And my complaint is really more an issue with how the show goes out of its way to avoid explaining how the fantasy elements work while simultaneously leaning into them. For instance, if Bran knows Jaime is on his way to Winterfell, why doesn't he know that Cersei's army isn't on its way? Would that be the kind of thing he should tell Jon (or have Sam tell Jon)? Shouldn't he know where the Army of the Dead is? Why not warn the Last Hearth/Umber's about the threat? Why does he need to sit outside all day waiting? Wouldn't he know exactly when Jaime was going to arrive? I wish that I didn't have to wonder if/when/how/why/etc with Bran all of the time. His character seems to be the show's biggest weakness as far as I can tell. 
    I've heard/read it explained like this:Bran has access to unlimited knowledge but he still has to know where to look to receive and make sense of it. 
    SanguinePenguinatxrashidaCeciliaM
  • I loved last night's episode. I have almost no complaints. And my complaint is really more an issue with how the show goes out of its way to avoid explaining how the fantasy elements work while simultaneously leaning into them. For instance, if Bran knows Jaime is on his way to Winterfell, why doesn't he know that Cersei's army isn't on its way? Would that be the kind of thing he should tell Jon (or have Sam tell Jon)? Shouldn't he know where the Army of the Dead is? Why not warn the Last Hearth/Umber's about the threat? Why does he need to sit outside all day waiting? Wouldn't he know exactly when Jaime was going to arrive? I wish that I didn't have to wonder if/when/how/why/etc with Bran all of the time. His character seems to be the show's biggest weakness as far as I can tell. 
    I've heard/read it explained like this:Bran has access to unlimited knowledge but he still has to know where to look to receive and make sense of it. 

    Yes, exactly. It's like having a Google Weirtree net. Bran can find any bit of information but he has to know what to ask, where to look, and WHEN to look as well. It is a big a world and a nearly infinite amount of time.
    atxrashidaCeciliaM
  • You also have to remember that Jon and Dany just arrived at Winterfell.  Bran saw that Jamie was headed this way and soon so does it really matter if he tells everyone that the Lannisters aren't coming to help or waits until Jamie shows up and says the same thing? 

    Also, it seems like the Night King can kind of block Bran or at least is aware when Bran is spying on him and can almost circumvent it or maybe even attack him.  So, Bran might be a little hesitant to go full on spy mode.  He did warn everyone that the army of the dead had broken thru the wall and were headed south.  So, that is news that no one else could really know.

    As for the Umbers, yeah, that's a good catch.  Bran might have been able to see or at least predict that the Night King's army was headed in that general direction and warned them to be on guard.  But as i said before, maybe Bran isn't exactly tracking them because the Night King can interfere with him.

    atxrashidaSanguinePenguin
  • Has it been established that he can see the future? Even in the books, it's always the past or present. Thus, there's no reason he'd know when Jaime would arrive, just that he is close. 

    atxrashidaSanguinePenguin
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    It's been hinted at seeing the future but I don't know if he actually can or not. There was that quick flash of him learning all the things and I'm pretty sure we see the wildfire exploding through the tunnels under the Sept of Baelor before that ever happened.
    atxrashidaSanguinePenguinCeciliaM
  • Demerol said:
    Has it been established that he can see the future? Even in the books, it's always the past or present. Thus, there's no reason he'd know when Jaime would arrive, just that he is close. 


    I know I've argued this exact point ad nauseam.  I personally think/believe he can't see the exact future.  Bran has even told people that he can see the past and present.  He never says that he can see the future.  The argument that he can see the future is that in a previous vision, he appeared to see the Sept get blown up.  However, my counter to that is that Bran could have been in a different timeline since all the characters were still split up.  So, what was the future to Cersei, was actually the present or past for Bran so hence he saw it.  But regardless, I still think Bran can only see the present or past.  So, he could see that Jamie was headed to Winterfell and was nearby.
    BroRad33
  • You also have to remember that Jon and Dany just arrived at Winterfell.  Bran saw that Jamie was headed this way and soon so does it really matter if he tells everyone that the Lannisters aren't coming to help or waits until Jamie shows up and says the same thing? 

    Also, it seems like the Night King can kind of block Bran or at least is aware when Bran is spying on him and can almost circumvent it or maybe even attack him.  So, Bran might be a little hesitant to go full on spy mode.  He did warn everyone that the army of the dead had broken thru the wall and were headed south.  So, that is news that no one else could really know.

    As for the Umbers, yeah, that's a good catch.  Bran might have been able to see or at least predict that the Night King's army was headed in that general direction and warned them to be on guard.  But as i said before, maybe Bran isn't exactly tracking them because the Night King can interfere with him.

    Him knowing about the wights getting past the wall is one of the big contradictions. Is he watching them because they are a threat? If so, isn't Cersei also a threat? Seems to me that watching Cersei would be the most logical thing to do for a zillion reasons. And if he's been watching Jaime, how could he avoid seeing Cersei? I hope the show explains this, but at the moment I feel like it's a big weakness to have someone that powerful have such vague motivations.
  • I loved last night's episode. I have almost no complaints. And my complaint is really more an issue with how the show goes out of its way to avoid explaining how the fantasy elements work while simultaneously leaning into them. For instance, if Bran knows Jaime is on his way to Winterfell, why doesn't he know that Cersei's army isn't on its way? Would that be the kind of thing he should tell Jon (or have Sam tell Jon)? Shouldn't he know where the Army of the Dead is? Why not warn the Last Hearth/Umber's about the threat? Why does he need to sit outside all day waiting? Wouldn't he know exactly when Jaime was going to arrive? I wish that I didn't have to wonder if/when/how/why/etc with Bran all of the time. His character seems to be the show's biggest weakness as far as I can tell. 
    I've heard/read it explained like this:Bran has access to unlimited knowledge but he still has to know where to look to receive and make sense of it. 

    Yes, exactly. It's like having a Google Weirtree net. Bran can find any bit of information but he has to know what to ask, where to look, and WHEN to look as well. It is a big a world and a nearly infinite amount of time.
    Further, it seems like he sees stuff in real time, so it takes him awhile to look at events with any nuance. 
    SanguinePenguin
  • It seems like this would always be a problem with character who is rolling deus ex machina to me.  It's a large part of the reason I checked out of the Dune series after the second book, foreseeing everything in your visions but being a prisoner of fate was depressing for me

     atxrashida said:
    I loved last night's episode. I have almost no complaints. And my complaint is really more an issue with how the show goes out of its way to avoid explaining how the fantasy elements work while simultaneously leaning into them. For instance, if Bran knows Jaime is on his way to Winterfell, why doesn't he know that Cersei's army isn't on its way? Would that be the kind of thing he should tell Jon (or have Sam tell Jon)? Shouldn't he know where the Army of the Dead is? Why not warn the Last Hearth/Umber's about the threat? Why does he need to sit outside all day waiting? Wouldn't he know exactly when Jaime was going to arrive? I wish that I didn't have to wonder if/when/how/why/etc with Bran all of the time. His character seems to be the show's biggest weakness as far as I can tell. 

    MurderbearSanguinePenguin
  • It's been hinted at seeing the future but I don't know if he actually can or not. There was that quick flash of him learning all the things and I'm pretty sure we see the wildfire exploding through the tunnels under the Sept of Baelor before that ever happened.
    Whether or not Bran can see the future (I don't think he can) isn't really the issue in my opinion. It's wtf does he do? When and why? I know Arya was described as "lurking" but it seems that Bran's main power is his ability to reveal information the audience needs rather than having his own motivations/agency. Does Bran have to be told to check in on Cersei? He’s watching the Night King. Why not her too? I suppose all of this may be addressed in time, but I doubt that it’ll satisfy my disillusionment with his character. 
    SanguinePenguinCeciliaM
  • It's been hinted at seeing the future but I don't know if he actually can or not. There was that quick flash of him learning all the things and I'm pretty sure we see the wildfire exploding through the tunnels under the Sept of Baelor before that ever happened.
    Whether or not Bran can see the future (I don't think he can) isn't really the issue in my opinion. It's wtf does he do? When and why? I know Arya was described as "lurking" but it seems that Bran's main power is his ability to reveal information the audience needs rather than having his own motivations/agency. Does Bran have to be told to check in on Cersei? He’s watching the Night King. Why not her too? I suppose all of this may be addressed in time, but I doubt that it’ll satisfy my disillusionment with his character. 
    I believe it has more to do with the origins of the TER. From Mr. Old Man in a Tree, he didn't seem to put much stock into the realms of man but rather was on the lookout for the next greenseer/raven. It's almost as though the TER's sole purpose is to warn the realms of man against the movements of the Night King. If Jon is truly to be Azor Ahai reborn, then his interest in him makes complete sense. His takedown of Little Finger was the final hurdle to preparing the Starks for the oncoming threat of the Night King. If I had to bet, Bran's arc will end with the end of the Night King. Either that or there's an unsatisfying non-ending of the Night King (banishment) and Bran's long watch begins. 

    tldr: Bran's purpose is directed towards event that impact the war against the Night King. Cersei is irrelevant to his purpose.
    atxrashidaSanguinePenguin
  • Demerol said:
    It's been hinted at seeing the future but I don't know if he actually can or not. There was that quick flash of him learning all the things and I'm pretty sure we see the wildfire exploding through the tunnels under the Sept of Baelor before that ever happened.
    Whether or not Bran can see the future (I don't think he can) isn't really the issue in my opinion. It's wtf does he do? When and why? I know Arya was described as "lurking" but it seems that Bran's main power is his ability to reveal information the audience needs rather than having his own motivations/agency. Does Bran have to be told to check in on Cersei? He’s watching the Night King. Why not her too? I suppose all of this may be addressed in time, but I doubt that it’ll satisfy my disillusionment with his character. 
    I believe it has more to do with the origins of the TER. From Mr. Old Man in a Tree, he didn't seem to put much stock into the realms of man but rather was on the lookout for the next greenseer/raven. It's almost as though the TER's sole purpose is to warn the realms of man against the movements of the Night King. If Jon is truly to be Azor Ahai reborn, then his interest in him makes complete sense. His takedown of Little Finger was the final hurdle to preparing the Starks for the oncoming threat of the Night King. If I had to bet, Bran's arc will end with the end of the Night King. Either that or there's an unsatisfying non-ending of the Night King (banishment) and Bran's long watch begins. 

    tldr: Bran's purpose is directed towards event that impact the war against the Night King. Cersei is irrelevant to his purpose.
    I thought the same thing; the raven watches the movements of the NK, Cersei is irrelevant to his purpose but by extension then, Jaime should be too, but the raven was clearly looking for Jaime. Waiting for Jaime. Five more weeks to go. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.
  • You also have to remember that Jon and Dany just arrived at Winterfell.  Bran saw that Jamie was headed this way and soon so does it really matter if he tells everyone that the Lannisters aren't coming to help or waits until Jamie shows up and says the same thing? 

    Also, it seems like the Night King can kind of block Bran or at least is aware when Bran is spying on him and can almost circumvent it or maybe even attack him.  So, Bran might be a little hesitant to go full on spy mode.  He did warn everyone that the army of the dead had broken thru the wall and were headed south.  So, that is news that no one else could really know.

    As for the Umbers, yeah, that's a good catch.  Bran might have been able to see or at least predict that the Night King's army was headed in that general direction and warned them to be on guard.  But as i said before, maybe Bran isn't exactly tracking them because the Night King can interfere with him.

    Him knowing about the wights getting past the wall is one of the big contradictions. Is he watching them because they are a threat? If so, isn't Cersei also a threat? Seems to me that watching Cersei would be the most logical thing to do for a zillion reasons. And if he's been watching Jaime, how could he avoid seeing Cersei? I hope the show explains this, but at the moment I feel like it's a big weakness to have someone that powerful have such vague motivations.

    See, while Cersei is a threat, she's not the main concern.  You saw Bran tell everyone that there was no time for chit chatting and that the Night King and his army were the real threat and they needed to get a move on.  So, while Bran can check in on Cersei if he wants, i think his energy and focus are more so on the Night King and the army of the dead.  Bran, like Jon, knows that the Night King is the true enemy or main concern at the moment.  But then yeah, why does he even bother with Jamie?  Well, perhaps he took a glimpse down south to see what was going on and then saw that Jamie was headed towards Winterfell.  That i can't really explain/defend that well.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Also, to answer the question of the thread title, no. CGI animals are this show's biggest problems.  :p
    atxrashidaCapeGabe
  • Maybe he is like dr strange in avengers and can see all possibilities  and only interferes when it affects a positive outcome?  

    But yeah it is frustrating because the characters (besides Bran)  wouldn’t  know that and you would think they would be having nonstop war strategy councils with bran in the room instead of wandering around having separate reunions and flying on dragons. 

    That sounds a bit critical but I also liked episode 8-one.  My main gripe was too many long-awaited reunions and meetings that felt rushed but I am glad they did that instead of dragging it out over multiple episodes of a short season 




  • You also have to remember that Jon and Dany just arrived at Winterfell.  Bran saw that Jamie was headed this way and soon so does it really matter if he tells everyone that the Lannisters aren't coming to help or waits until Jamie shows up and says the same thing? 

    Also, it seems like the Night King can kind of block Bran or at least is aware when Bran is spying on him and can almost circumvent it or maybe even attack him.  So, Bran might be a little hesitant to go full on spy mode.  He did warn everyone that the army of the dead had broken thru the wall and were headed south.  So, that is news that no one else could really know.

    As for the Umbers, yeah, that's a good catch.  Bran might have been able to see or at least predict that the Night King's army was headed in that general direction and warned them to be on guard.  But as i said before, maybe Bran isn't exactly tracking them because the Night King can interfere with him.

    Him knowing about the wights getting past the wall is one of the big contradictions. Is he watching them because they are a threat? If so, isn't Cersei also a threat? Seems to me that watching Cersei would be the most logical thing to do for a zillion reasons. And if he's been watching Jaime, how could he avoid seeing Cersei? I hope the show explains this, but at the moment I feel like it's a big weakness to have someone that powerful have such vague motivations.

    See, while Cersei is a threat, she's not the main concern.  You saw Bran tell everyone that there was no time for chit chatting and that the Night King and his army were the real threat and they needed to get a move on.  So, while Bran can check in on Cersei if he wants, i think his energy and focus are more so on the Night King and the army of the dead.  Bran, like Jon, knows that the Night King is the true enemy or main concern at the moment.  But then yeah, why does he even bother with Jamie?  Well, perhaps he took a glimpse down south to see what was going on and then saw that Jamie was headed towards Winterfell.  That i can't really explain/defend that well.
    That’s actually not a bad defense. Maybe he was just scanning the north and locked in on Jaime? Still doesn’t explain why he wouldn’t already know that Cersei’s army isn’t coming and if he does know, why he wouldn’t think that info needs to be conveyed immediately (surely if he saw Jaime in the North he’d also look to see what the inciting event was that would bring him there). It’s similar to his handling of Baelish. He can access all of this info, but grabs a tidbit and looks no further? Is this the same non-studious, disinterested Bran of season 2!

    If I were Sansa/Jon/Arya I’d be spending way way waaaaaaay more time with Bran. 
    SanguinePenguin
  • Maybe he is like dr strange in avengers and can see all possibilities  and only interferes when it affects a positive outcome?  

    But yeah it is frustrating because the characters (besides Bran)  wouldn’t  know that and you would think they would be having nonstop war strategy councils with bran in the room instead of wandering around having separate reunions and flying on dragons. 

    That sounds a bit critical but I also liked episode 8-one.  My main gripe was too many long-awaited reunions and meetings that felt rushed but I am glad they did that instead of dragging it out over multiple episodes of a short season 




    I just said something similar. Sansa has to be interested in what’s going on in King’s Landing. She hadn’t asked him to take a peek!?! Wth? Maybe we should’ve had a moment where Bran refuses a request to “spy” on Cersei or someone. Then at least we know he has a primary directive. But if he’s not Bran anymore, why does he care about Jaime? I don’t watch the trailers/previews so maybe next week we’ll see that his interest in Jaime isn’t Bran-related, but if it is... 
  • In S3E2, Bran & Jojen have the walk and talk about the Raven bringing the sight: "things that haven't happened yet," things happening now far away, & things that happened in the past. Brynden could send visions to Bran while Bran was in the coma, but now that Bran is the 3ER he has everything...although Brynden told Bran he wasn't ready & had to learn "everything," Benjen told Bran the NK was coming &when he does Bran will be ready and waiting. So I guess Bran is constantly prepping for the NK and sharing what he can piece together. I'd like more Bran/Sam or Bran/Jon scenes, I hope we get that. 
    CapeGabetelephoneofmadnessSanguinePenguin
  • I feel like Bran only gets involved in certain situations and keeps a lot of stuff to himself. I don't claim to know what those situations are, but if he was on call 24/7 to read the past, present and possibly future for everyone who asked, it would be a circus sideshow and he would be totally drained.
  • Bralexa, what's the Night King doing right now?
    Doctor_NickSanguinePenguinrkcrawfbudesignsmostlywright
  • Bralexa, what's the Night King doing right now?
    "Currently, the Night King is making wall art at the Last Hearth."
    telephoneofmadnessmostlywright
  • I loved this episode. I am sure I am being ruled by emotions-it was so good to just be back in the world! But I agree that the fact of Bran makes communication confusing to me. When Bran interrupted to say the wall was down and the dragon was on the dead's side I could not gauge the reaction. Did Jon and Dany already know? In the Godswood, did Arya already know about Jon's heritage? And that led me to wonder why Sam did not already know about his family. It is a small quibble, but I am confused as to how communication works and who knows what at this point. Also, slightly off topic-in the after interview they talked about how only Targs can ride dragons and Jon should have caught on. But has this concept been introduced in the series? I have watched and read the books so many times I can't remember what goes where. 
    SanguinePenguin
  • I think news travels fast or not at all when the writers decide that it needs to.  Personally, i wasn't surprised that Sam didn't know his family got killed.  Actually, there was a scene last season at the Citadel where the maester's get the word and choose not to tell Sam (it's right after Sam tries to convince them that the white walkers are real and are a threat and they dismiss it and as soon as he leaves, they casually mention what happened to his father and brother and how Sam doesn't know).  Basically, it seems like the communication is suppose to work that all news goes to the citadel and they basically send things out to the rest of the realm i think.  But obviously word of mouth can also travel on its own.
    SanguinePenguinmostlywright
  • I loved last night's episode. I have almost no complaints. And my complaint is really more an issue with how the show goes out of its way to avoid explaining how the fantasy elements work while simultaneously leaning into them. For instance, if Bran knows Jaime is on his way to Winterfell, why doesn't he know that Cersei's army isn't on its way? Would that be the kind of thing he should tell Jon (or have Sam tell Jon)? Shouldn't he know where the Army of the Dead is? Why not warn the Last Hearth/Umber's about the threat? Why does he need to sit outside all day waiting? Wouldn't he know exactly when Jaime was going to arrive? I wish that I didn't have to wonder if/when/how/why/etc with Bran all of the time. His character seems to be the show's biggest weakness as far as I can tell. 
    I've heard/read it explained like this:Bran has access to unlimited knowledge but he still has to know where to look to receive and make sense of it. 

    Yes, exactly. It's like having a Google Weirtree net. Bran can find any bit of information but he has to know what to ask, where to look, and WHEN to look as well. It is a big a world and a nearly infinite amount of time.
    Yes. But it still requires you to believe he doesn't know to check on the Army of the Dead or Cersei's army. The explanation from the writers made sense in the context of R+J, but it doesn't hold up here.
    SanguinePenguin
  • @dochlelomn-I had totally forgotten that!!! Thank you! 
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    So...if only Targaryens can ride dragons does that mean the Night King is a Targaryen and not a Stark? Honestly, he was riding like a pro, sitting tall and proud. Looked better than Dany. 
  • Didn't everyone on the "let's go catch a wight, up to the highest height" mission ride the dragons back over the wall? So it seems abundantly clear that, in the show, anyone can ride them, at least with Dany's permission. 

    And Viseryon (that's the undead one now, right?) is a wight first, dragon second. Wights are absolutely loyal to the walker that created them. 
  • asmallcat said:
    Didn't everyone on the "let's go catch a wight, up to the highest height" mission ride the dragons back over the wall? So it seems abundantly clear that, in the show, anyone can ride them, at least with Dany's permission. 

    And Viseryon (that's the undead one now, right?) is a wight first, dragon second. Wights are absolutely loyal to the walker that created them. 
    You are right that our heroes jumped on the back of a dragon and got the hell out of there but I guess they were more like passengers and not actually "riding" a dragon as in only 1 person who is "driving" the dragon basically.
    Kate23SanguinePenguin
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