My thoughts on why Tyrion is muted

I’ve been thinking about why Tyrion is not the same character we’ve come to know and love from seasons 1-3, even 4. My theory is that this is about the time that GRRM stopped writing / the show runners started to write his story. Granted, GRRM does write about Tyrion’s journey to Essos and his trip with Jorah to Meereen; however, it is reasonable to see why he is not “peak Tyrion” at that point. He’s been traveling in a box for months with no air, and drinking himself silly after killing his father. All that being said, I would think that he would have gotten back to playing the game much better since he’s been appointed as Hand of the Queen. Both season 7 and early 8 Tyrion is entirely too muted for me. As Sansa points out, it is almost laughable that Tyrion believes Cersei about helping without much second thought of her double crossing them. She blew up the Sept of Baelor for crying out loud! He should put nothing past her. And I’m not buying that they struck some secret deal back in King’s Landing. Nope not buying it. Anyway, I really hope they bring his character back to true form in these last few episodes. 
telephoneofmadness

Comments

  • tpelzytpelzy Dallas
    @lawgirl2528 I think D&D are doing the best they can with what they have. They didn't sign up to write ASOIAF, they thought were just going to adapt the books. They only have a finite amount of time to get characters top were they need to be so they remixed or summarized the plot lines that not even GRRM has wrapped up yet. 
    lawgirl2528CapeGabeDeetelephoneofmadnessSanguinePenguin
  • I think Tyrion really wants to be a member of his own family.  In his perfect picture, his father loved - or at least - respected him, Jaime and him are tight and Cersei trusts him.  Those very few scenes where they set aside their animosity for the sake of saving the kingdom from Joffrey made me feel like Tyrion would be utterly loyal to Cersei if she didn't constantly attack him.  He never outed their affair, he always protected Jaime and Cersei, even when it might have helped him to do otherwise.

    Look at how hard he tried to convince her he was also hurting over the deaths of Myrcella and Tommen.  Look at his anguish when she tells him that killing their father left them open to attack.  He never regretted killing Tyrion, but his heart broke if it also hurt Jaime, Tommen, Myrcella and - Cersei.  If he didn't care about Cersei's opinion, he wouldn't have defended himself, or felt bad.

    Cersei didn't kill him.  To Tyrion that was a declaration of familial love.  It's the only one his father ever gave him, he didn't leave him on a beach to drown because he 'was a Lannister.'

    Cersei affirmed to him that she didn't want him dead.  He is in a position to save her and save Jaime and save her unborn child.  He probably knows better - intellectually - but emotionally I bet he had a moment where he envisioned a situation where his remaining kin looked at him and weren't disappointed or wishing he had never been born.  He doesn't even want them to respect or love him, just not revile him.

    Cersei gave a Class A performance, Jon and Dany also bought her offer of aid.  Tyrion has been waiting his entire life to believe her, I'm not going to blame him for being a sucker this one time.
    blacksunrise7
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited April 17
    Perhaps if they had played up the fact that Tyrion has no experience with naval affairs, and I don't remember if  Euron Greyjoy had emerged yet, so he didn't realize how dangerous putting all the allies in the sea basket was extremely dangerous.  Also, if they had emphasized Jamie being extremely clever more, rather than just a throwaway line to the Queen of Thorns - Tyrion got outsmarted by Jamie, they could have made more of that... Fool Jamie once (Robb Stark) and Jamie learned to do it to others.  

    Personally, I just rewatched important bits of Seasons 3 and 4; Even if Tyrion believed Cersei, I don't see how someone who went through what he did wouldn't be paranoid about her intentions.   HE should be the one needing reassuring that he's making the right call, not reassuring others, IMO.   
    telephoneofmadnessSanguinePenguin
  • I'm not super concerned abt this. There are so many characters it's natural for some to take a back seat for a while. But if I was forced to answer this I would suggest that Tyrion is really out of his element when he leaves King's Landing and that his character is so much based on the fact of his birth and his kind of weird placement and his family in terms of the different Dynamics he has with a different family members but once he's not with his family anymore he loses some of his character characteristics. I also think in the later episodes they're kind of trying to put Tyrion on a pedestal that he doesn't really fit on. He was always really intelligent and clever but you can't just turn someone into kind of a hero overnight just because he meets a queen who inspires him. I like the old Tyrion who was a little more gray better than the one that's being or at least trying to be a super good guy.
    gguenot
  • As @Dummy said in the main thread:

    Make Tyrion Smart Again
    DummytelephoneofmadnessAll the Chickens
  • It's like when Arya got ambushed by the Waif. Tyrion should know how this works by now.
    SanguinePenguinKate23
  • edited April 17
    Doesn't Varys have anything to say to Tyrion about his schemes and machinations? Does he offer no counsel at all? Sure, maybe Tyrion is too busy cracking lame and tired jokes over his lack of dangly bits, but it sure seems like both of these former wise masters of King's Landing have lost more than a step. They seem utterly bereft of guile, cunning, or even plain common sense. WTF. Surely Varys could've pulled Tyrion aside and said "um, I know Cersei and if you trust her to bring her troops to help us, you are either a moron or drunk, or both."
    Hell, it took Davos to come up with the blatantly obvious solution of having Jon and Dany get married. This never occurred to Tyrion or Varys? Really?
    I'm seriously befuddled as to why both characters appear to now be idiots.
    gguenot
  • edited April 17
    I think another part of it is that he was peak Tyrion when he was essentially governing in King's Landing. This world hasn't really felt "populated" in a few seasons. The only real consideration given to the small folk is whether or not they'll like being burnt up in a dragon assault. Hard to be politically savvy when you have no constituency, and you're opponents are irrational/immovable. 

    Hopefully, now that everything is concentrated in Winterfell he'll have more room to shine but, at this point, he's competing with Sansa. Maybe, they can work together.

    Also, if Tyrion doesn't believe they can ever trust Cersei then the entire plot of last season is even dumber than it already was. I guess his character is a sacrifice to the gods of bad writing to move the plot along.
    SanguinePenguin
  • edited April 17
    I dunno. I mean Tyrion was smart, but he was more often lucky and relied on his name. By all rights, he should have been thrown out the Moon Door if it weren't for Bronn (luck/fortune). Recruiting Shagga and the Stone Men...luck (and family fortune). Battle of the Blackwater - his part turned out fine, but they would have gotten stomped if Tywin hadn't recruited the Tyrells from the Reach (luck/family fortune). 

    The turning point for Tyrion is the Purple Wedding, IMO. W/o his father's backing, he's no longer able to talk his way through the trial(s), he's stuck with Jorah, and then he has a mediocre-bad run as Hand in Mereen. Things don't get better on Dragonstone.  

    I would guess a redemption is coming, but I see what OP is citing as part of his arc. He's always thought he was the smartest person in the room (something he has in common with Cersei). Don't get me wrong...I'm rooting for him, but I think he's the same guy he's always been.

    edit: typo
    SanguinePenguinmajjam0770Kate23
  • He's killed a lot of brain cells. 

    Sometimes he was very clever. Looking back on his trials tho, I never liked the way he expected others to bail him out. He could've lived out his life at the wall but I guess just assumed someone would always fight for him? He expected Jaime to come to his rescue in the Eyrie, and seriously to die for him against the Mountain (after Jaime sacrificed a life with Cersei to get him a deal), and he tried to talk Bronn into it as well. Maybe someone can help me out if Tyrion had ever done something so selfless for Jaime?
    SanguinePenguin
  • I'm still pissed off that he's had no hand in everyone learning more about dragons FFS. He's a bookworm in the books, even moreso than Sam.
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