Avengers Endgame - Full Spoiler discussion

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  • Emotionally satisfying, but intellectually frustrating. Literally just finished it. Can’t wait to see how this compares to the Battle of Winterfell. 

    The beginning of this movie felt like a slow Ocean’s 11. But once it got going with Thanos again, I was into it. Interesting take on time travel. i liked the end a lot, but thought Pepper in her own suit was a bit too much. 

    Main disappointment is lack of Captain Marvel. I know production schedules overlapped, but I couldn’t think of a movie reason they would sideline her. 

    I also loved Cap picking up the Hammer. I got chills when Spider-Man came back. I teared up a bit when Widow died, but I really don’t care for Renner. I do like Thanos. 
    hisdudeness915
  • My first viewing was the most unbelievable movie experience of my lifetime. It finally supplanted 7 year old me sitting in the theater to watch Jurassic Park for the first time. I think I might have been able to hold it together if it weren’t for literally everyone around me openly weeping and cheering throughout so much of this movie. 

    I saw it again this morning at 8 AM (yes I took the day off for this movie) and the theater was STILL packed, people were STILL openly weeping and cheering and hooting and hollering, and I STILL had one of the best theater experiences of my life. 

    This moment in pop culture is unlike anything that has ever happened before or will ever happen again. We are simultaneously saying goodbye to the two biggest things that have ever existed in the history of cinema and television. It’s just crazy to step back and think of the impact of it all, and how it’s all ending at the same time.
    hisdudeness915rkcrawf
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    rkcrawf said:

    Main disappointment is lack of Captain Marvel. I know production schedules overlapped, but I couldn’t think of a movie reason they would sideline her. 

    I thought the movie reason made a ton of sense. Earth already has the Avengers. Shit is going down elsewhere and she's a creature of Space. She was there when they needed to kill Thanos, she went to help other people, and came back when they needed to kill Thanos again. Earth wasn't in need of protection between the Thanoses.

    It also would have ruined the movie in a non-movie reason if a character they introduced two months ago just hung around the entire time saving everything.
    rhcoop
  • I thought the movie was great emotionally but not so great intellectually. It’s one of those where I was getting choked up with sadness at times and grinning ear to ear with awesomeness at others. But......then when I get home and start thinking about it, the plot kinda starts to fall apart. Time travel is just so tough to get right. There’s no way Cap should be there at the end. Doesn’t follow their own rules. Also, didn’t like the Thor being fat bit lasting all movie and the Hulk being nice(?) and explained by 30 secs of dialogue. But still left the theater happy and can’t wait to see it again
    darwinfeeshy
  • podcartfanpodcartfan Cincinnati
    There’s no way Cap should be there at the end.
    They also conveniently set up their time machine outside by a lake so he could pop up on a bench as an old man.  If I had one of the most technologically advanced pieces of equipment that exists I’d probably put it in a lab.  Call me crazy. 
    darwinfeeshy
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    No matter where physically they sent Cap back in time he'd be there waiting. I mean, maybe not on another planet or whatever but he knew exactly when and where they'd be, assuming he survived that long he could simply show up. Right?
    gguenotGBraltaAnominal
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I thought the movie was great emotionally but not so great intellectually. It’s one of those where I was getting choked up with sadness at times and grinning ear to ear with awesomeness at others. But......then when I get home and start thinking about it, the plot kinda starts to fall apart. Time travel is just so tough to get right. There’s no way Cap should be there at the end. Doesn’t follow their own rules. Also, didn’t like the Thor being fat bit lasting all movie and the Hulk being nice(?) and explained by 30 secs of dialogue. But still left the theater happy and can’t wait to see it again
    How so? 2019 Cap goes back and puts the stones and the hammer back, then jumps back to the date he is lost in the arctic. Right as Dr. Carter gets the news, he appears to her and essentially takes the place of himself. She died before Cap unfroze, so all Old Man Cap has to do is lay low until he reveals himself.

    Anyway, I didn't think too hard about the time travel stuff, and this might not hold water, because I thought the movie very sternly told us not to do that, and I was inclined to let them have their way because the results were awesome and delightful.
    hisdudeness915GBralta
  • But he changed the timeline. They said that if the timeline changed it would create an alternate one ala BTTF2 style. He should be in a completely new timeline not a different one that merges with the current one......I think??
    rkcrawf
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited April 2019
    I thought the movie was great emotionally but not so great intellectually. It’s one of those where I was getting choked up with sadness at times and grinning ear to ear with awesomeness at others. But......then when I get home and start thinking about it, the plot kinda starts to fall apart. Time travel is just so tough to get right. There’s no way Cap should be there at the end. Doesn’t follow their own rules. Also, didn’t like the Thor being fat bit lasting all movie and the Hulk being nice(?) and explained by 30 secs of dialogue. But still left the theater happy and can’t wait to see it again
    How so? 2019 Cap goes back and puts the stones and the hammer back, then jumps back to the date he is lost in the arctic. Right as Dr. Carter gets the news, he appears to her and essentially takes the place of himself. She died before Cap unfroze, so all Old Man Cap has to do is lay low until he reveals himself.

    Anyway, I didn't think too hard about the time travel stuff, and this might not hold water, because I thought the movie very sternly told us not to do that, and I was inclined to let them have their way because the results were awesome and delightful.
    I agree that thinking about time travel always ruins it, but I think when they say you can't change the future by changing the past pretty explicitly implies that they're different streams of time. If you can go back in time and just hang out and still be in the same stream that you left, how does it make sense that you can't change the future by changing the past?

    But as is always the case, all the time travel rules are just stated by characters that only just found out that time travel is even possible.
    Cory
  • You’re definitely right about it being awesome and delightful!
    ken hale
  • hisdudeness915hisdudeness915 Atlanta, Ga
    edited April 2019
    On a side note, selfishly I wanted Bucky to take up the Cap America mantle simply because I don’t give a shit about Falcon. Hell, I barely give a shit about Bucky  :)
    A_Ron_HubbardCory
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited April 2019
    Liked it a lot, but I definitely need to see it again before forming a final opinion. I do feel like they missed a great time joke during the heist plan segment; they totally should have done another "5 years later..." at some point. It wouldn't have really mattered in terms of the timeline (other than adjusting some dialogue) and would have been a great jab at just how far out of their elements they are.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • BenBen Melbourne - Australia
    I’d watch a Cap movie following him dropping each of the stones back in its right place, especially as Loki has the tesseract now. Or at least one of them. They could even end it with Cap and Peggy dancing like they did in this movie. Captain America was always my least favourite comic book character when I was growing up, he always felt too jingoistic to me as an australian, But these movies made him something else, he’s probably my favourite now. 
    Rayana@rochesterrr.com
  • Hunkulese said:
    rkcrawf said:

    Main disappointment is lack of Captain Marvel. I know production schedules overlapped, but I couldn’t think of a movie reason they would sideline her. 

    I thought the movie reason made a ton of sense. Earth already has the Avengers. Shit is going down elsewhere and she's a creature of Space. She was there when they needed to kill Thanos, she went to help other people, and came back when they needed to kill Thanos again. Earth wasn't in need of protection between the Thanoses.

    It also would have ruined the movie in a non-movie reason if a character they introduced two months ago just hung around the entire time saving everything.
    I mean hyperspace is clearly a thing, right? The Avengers are about to time travel to set things right...lets give the most (or at least the third most) powerful person a call. I just couldn’t get not waiting a day or two for her to get back. I was also looking forward to her meshing/clashing more with the team (like Ant Man) since she has had so little screen time with these characters. It’s a minor nit tho.

    i also don’t know if MJ and Ned disappeared with Peter, cuz that’s the only way them being in school together makes sense. I also agree that they weren’t playing by their own time travel rules. If Valkyrie had her Pegasus, why was she just chillin? Did Thanos disappear her ride? I wish they spent more time on Peter’s explanation of what the disappearing effect was like for them.

    But the movie lived up to expectations for me. Ultimately, I enjoyed it which is what counts. Extremely satisfying on an emotional level.

    Any theories on the post-credit banging noises?
  • Was the Captain America ending supposed to be a Saving Private Ryan homage? Where he says he doesn’t think he’ll tell Falcon about his wife.
  • rkcrawf said:

    Any theories on the post-credit banging noises?
    My first thought was Gendry and then I realized I was combining universes. Second thought was that it sounded eerily similar to when Tony first made his suit in the cave. But I really have no clue. 
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    On a side note, selfishly I wanted Bucky to take up the Cap America mantle simply because I don’t give a shit about Falcon. Hell, I barely give a shit about Bucky  :)
    Same. I've always thought Falcon was such a goofy addition to the series. I'd have love to seen Bucky pick up the shield.
    hisdudeness915rhcoop
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    rkcrawf said:
    Hunkulese said:
    rkcrawf said:

    Main disappointment is lack of Captain Marvel. I know production schedules overlapped, but I couldn’t think of a movie reason they would sideline her. 

    I thought the movie reason made a ton of sense. Earth already has the Avengers. Shit is going down elsewhere and she's a creature of Space. She was there when they needed to kill Thanos, she went to help other people, and came back when they needed to kill Thanos again. Earth wasn't in need of protection between the Thanoses.

    It also would have ruined the movie in a non-movie reason if a character they introduced two months ago just hung around the entire time saving everything.
    I mean hyperspace is clearly a thing, right? The Avengers are about to time travel to set things right...lets give the most (or at least the third most) powerful person a call. I just couldn’t get not waiting a day or two for her to get back. I was also looking forward to her meshing/clashing more with the team (like Ant Man) since she has had so little screen time with these characters. It’s a minor nit tho.

    i also don’t know if MJ and Ned disappeared with Peter, cuz that’s the only way them being in school together makes sense. I also agree that they weren’t playing by their own time travel rules. If Valkyrie had her Pegasus, why was she just chillin? Did Thanos disappear her ride? I wish they spent more time on Peter’s explanation of what the disappearing effect was like for them.

    But the movie lived up to expectations for me. Ultimately, I enjoyed it which is what counts. Extremely satisfying on an emotional level.

    Any theories on the post-credit banging noises?
    It's definitely the sound of Tony forging the Mk 1 in that cave. I've heard people say that means Iron Man won't be gone forever, but I think it's just a nice bookend, like many things in this film was. "I am Iron Man." Happy Hogan getting cheeseburgers for Tony's kid. "PROOF THAT TONY STARK HAS A HEART". Cap maybe billed as the First Avenger, but nah Tony is. Appropriate he gets the hammer at the end, this is the house Tony and RDJ built.

    But seriously, any of these people could come back at any time and at any reason. If they're still making these movies 10 years from now, it would be a no brainer to sign massive checks and do some timey whimy bullshit to bring the current and past incarnations of Cap, Iron Man, etc to fight side by side in some future giant crossover series. That would be Marvel as fuck; I'm grinning just thinking about it!
    rkcrawfGBraltaCory
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited April 2019
    I will say this for Infinity War/Endgame: I was a card carrying Marvel movie hater, and Infinity War made me a fan. I went back and watched most of the Marvel movies again, and saw them in a whole new light knowing what they lead up to. Endgame really put a nice ribbon on the package. If you had told 2017 me that I would get worked up over the Iron Man/Spider Man reunion, I would have told you to go fuck right off while I watch Hell or High Water again.
    A_Ron_HubbardDoubleA_Ron
  • A small thing that bothered me was when all the well known actors are naming well known movie. Takes me out of it and makes me wonder if they are going to name a movie that another character has been in. They mention "time heist" and conveniently nobody says "Oh, like Ocean's 11". 
  • I thought it was incredible! I was laughing and tearing up with excitement with all of the heroics. Man, what an excellent way to end that decade 
    rkcrawf
  • I was tearing up several times. I have no really liked Falcon (or Bucky). But it meant something meta to me for Marvel to give the Captain America mantle to a black man. So many memories of Halloween as a kid being told you can’t be (insert superhero) because you’re black. It was a moment for me. 

    That said, I seriously doubt I’d ever see that particular actor in a Captain America movie. He’s a good side kick, but nah. 
    Aww_PHuuCkA_Ron_HubbardgguenotRayana@rochesterrr.com
  • gguenotgguenot CA
    edited April 2019
    Dummy said: They mention "time heist" and conveniently nobody says "Oh, like Ocean's 11". 
    Except Don Cheadle ;)

    edit: misread you comment. I thought you said “conveniently no ones in that movie”

    i thought they did mention oceans 11. Maybe I was thinking it
    Dummyrkcrawf
  • GBraltaGBralta San Diego, CA
    The movie was awesome!! I thought the run-time would be problematic, but it holds together very well. Yes, it's a complicated plot. However, if you are a big fan of the franchise, understand the development of these characters and understand the stakes, there are way less "holes" in this film. 

    In the end, the only characters affected by the change in the timeline are Cap, Thanos (along with his Army).
  • On a side note, selfishly I wanted Bucky to take up the Cap America mantle simply because I don’t give a shit about Falcon. Hell, I barely give a shit about Bucky  :)
    Same. I've always thought Falcon was such a goofy addition to the series. I'd have love to seen Bucky pick up the shield.

    They can do some interesting stuff from the comics with Sam as Captain America - would be fitting for the times.


    Aww_PHuuCkmajjam0770
  • I was definitely underwhelmed, during and after my viewing.  The pace of Infinity War and the character arc of Thanos in that movie make it a much better film, in my opinion, but Endgame does serve as a fitting follow-up and conclusion to this MCU era.  Some of the time travel stuff doesn't hold up to scrutiny, of course, the end battle is pretty bloated and charmless, and some of the hundred or so "principal characters" in this universe get short-shrift through the film.  I wouldn't be surprised if this makes less money than Infinity War, because, while fans will almost dutifully see it a second time (and likely reaffirm their initial impressions), I have a hard time seeing many people excited to go rewatch it.

    Like some have said, they set the stage for a lot of potential replacement heroes, especially if you look at all the hero's kids who got significant screen time here.  It will be really interesting to see if they can come close to this kind of audience-investment in the future.  Captain Marvel is divisive as hell.  It's been the same in the comics fandom in recent years as the company elevated her.  I like the character but the character is unlikeable - that's just how she's written.  If she's a centerpiece of the team moving forward, I would definitely anticipate some audience pushback.

    One more personal rant: I hate the SpiderHolland.  I fucking hate him.  I think they really botched the character by entirely jettisoning his crushing sense of "great responsibility" in favor of a one-dimensional happy-go-lucky Tony sycophant-sidekick.  I was more emotionally affected by Thanos' dust in the wind moment here than all that bullshit with Holland's stupid weepy face in this and the last movie.   
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    edited April 2019
    The biggest, spaceship sized plot hole that I can’t get past, is that thanos and a ship with the he population of a small nation were able to time travel with one vial of Pym juice. And without that weird time travel suit. And without a launching off dock. 

    They made are such a big deal about only having enough of the stuff for them to travel once, when they could’ve just traveled together, as a WHOLE group with one vial, three times to the three different time periods. Unless... space magic?

    And Gamora can come back but Black Widow is a permanent death????

    rkcrawf
  • hisdudeness915hisdudeness915 Atlanta, Ga
    edited April 2019
    Gamora was the pre-Guardians Gamora so that explains that one. Maybe they’ll just go back again and get pre Infinity War Black Widow? However, as far as the Pym juice plot hole....yea, I got nothin. 
    rkcrawf
  • Andrew said:
    The biggest, spaceship sized plot hole that I can’t get past, is that thanos and a ship with the he population of a small nation were able to time travel with one vial of Pym juice. And without that weird time travel suit. And without a launching off dock. 

    They made are such a big deal about only having enough of the stuff for them to travel once, when they could’ve just traveled together, as a WHOLE group with one vial, three times to the three different time periods. Unless... space magic?

    And Gamora can come back but Black Widow is a permanent death????

    I'll just imagine that they reverse engineered the Pym particles or something to bring the whole army. Guessing Thanos had some pretty smart Eggheads on his side.

    The Gamora that died for the soul stone didn't come back. It's Gamora from 2014. 
    GBralta
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