After 17 pages, it’s a bit of a blur. I’m not trying to hand out individual blame, but there are definitely posts pointing to Arya didn’t have the skill to sneak past the Walkers in this fashion or they thought it’d be Jon. I have yet to see another plausible theory for who should have killed NKOTB. I’d rather not have to go through 17 pages to dig that out.
If you do discount those posts, then it’s mostly complaints about the loft that Arya has or the logistics of a closed courtyard...and others cite plenty of evidence of Arya being fully capable as assassin. Other than Bran dying, there’s no other plausible outcome.
I would have liked to see the night king get hit by a dragonglass arrow or spear erlier as well to no effect so that valyrian steel becomes kind of the only means left they haven't tried. Than it would make sense to retreat into the castle, position around the godwood and protect all the carriers of those weapons making it much more plausible for Jamie and Brienne to survive.
Bran should have revealed the information to go for the heart to Theon because he knew the vision of the creation of the night king. Theon could than have shot an arrow at the night kings heart which he caught in midair instead of that stupid charge. That would have left an opening for Arya with the knowledge were to hit him.
Oh, an Bran could have used the ravens to distract the rest of the white walkers. I would have bought a collaborative effort which would have given Bran something meaningful to do and given Theon a real redemption arc.
It still would have looked badass and cool and made some narrative sense.
Oh, and Arya should have been at least wounded or caught a very bad cold for the next few episodes because if not there are no stakes in the game of thrones anymore since she could kill anyone anywhere anytime.
So after 3rd watch. I’m a bigger fan of the episode. I’m still not cool with the fact that a bunch of characters definitely should have died as they were overwhelmed by wights. But I’ve come around on the Arya killing. She definitely sneaks past the white walkers and simply jump attacks the night king. Which I can see as plausible given her abilities. Also they made some hints in the episode that she was always the one meant to kill him. I just noticed on 3rd watch that Melisandre tells her the same thing as Syrio. “What do we tell the God of Death?” Which was Super cool.
Also watching again the stream was waaay better. And having a pretty new smart TV made things really easy. All I had to do was changing the settings to Vivid or Sports and it was a huge difference to what I watched the first time. The picture below is the contrast. It looks so much better on rewatch with the proper settings.
Now that I’ve paused and adjusted my settings, the third watch is so much better. It was actually more mysterious though when I couldn’t see. But I’m at the trench lighting scene, and nothing before was
Here’s my issue...these shots are before Theon charged the Night King, when the NK just entered the area. After he kills Theon he walks a CONSIDERABLE distance to confront Bran. Yes, there was a gap but Arya would have had to run a good 20-30 yards before even jumping on the NK. Again, I’m not doubting Arya’s swordsmanship skills here. I believe she could pull off the dagger move. My issue is the sneak attack. There are shots right after she sticks the dagger in him of White Walkers guarding the NK all the way up to the tree. I’d have a hard time believing Neo from the Matrix could pull off this sneak attack let alone Arya.
I can't remember if @A_Ron_Hubbard was pointing this out or reading an email but the fact that the NK was standing in front of the Weirwood tree in roughly the same spot where the first thing Jon had said to Arya in seven and a half seasons was "How did you sneak up on me?" is just beautiful.
Has there been a more divisive episode at this point? I am realistic as to the weaknesses of this episode but just can’t hate it the way others do. Reddit is just burning itself down over it. I don’t know...I was entertained which and have been all the way through which is what I want from a tv show.
So imma back some folks on some of the “how did Arya do this” sexist talk, not that they need my backing. There’s definitely a correlation between the “I didn’t see Arya as a sexual being” and “I didn’t see Arya as a credible hero” crowd. Who else besides Jon, Arya, or maybe Dany would kill the Night King? Sam???
No one is saying Arya the character could possibly kill the Night King. People are saying the way they show her do it is poorly edited and the director did not do a good job showing the audience what he intended to show. No one is saying Arya cannot be a hero. If there is any post that says that, it's within the first eight pages because I didn't read those. Nothing from page eight on up says anything like you're saying.
I also have you assume you must be talking about me? Because I'm one of the people talking about it from page eight on up, but at the same time that is impossible since I never posted in the other thread. Either that or the guy who said he'd said his last word on the matter and stopped, and nothing that I saw from his posts said what you're saying.
Seems like the director filmed what was in the script. They clearly thought it worked better as a surprise, which they say in the post-show video. I don’t agree with that but I don’t think the director is at fault.
I can't remember if @A_Ron_Hubbard was pointing this out or reading an email but the fact that the NK was standing in front of the Weirwood tree in roughly the same spot where the first thing Jon had said to Arya in seven and a half seasons was "How did you sneak up on me?" is just beautiful.
That’s true and a valid point. There also wasn’t a hoard of white walkers surrounding Bran at that time.
It's a matter of personal preference so I am not dogging anyone who wants it but I don't quite understand why some want everything spelled out on the screen. Would the tension have been better if we saw her sneaking around and then take off running and jumping at the NK? Maybe. But I think the moment of everything moving so slow and the shared stares back and forth and wondering what the hell was going to happen and then....Arya leaps from the darkness and ends him. So much more satisfying, in my opinion. It was so much better to have last seen her with the two people giving her the inspiration to do it and the knowledge of how to strike the heart was perfect.
Plenty of things to knock this episode on but to me, this is the most well executed portion so that's why it's so confounding to me that so many people hated it.
If she's already at a full sprint when she passes the white walkers I don't see who stops her but the Night King. Theon closes the same gap from a dead stop in plate mail. Why wouldn't Arya be able to?
It's a matter of personal preference so I am not dogging anyone who wants it but I don't quite understand why some want everything spelled out on the screen. Would the tension have been better if we saw her sneaking around and then take off running and jumping at the NK? Maybe. But I think the moment of everything moving so slow and the shared stares back and forth and wondering what the hell was going to happen and then....Arya leaps from the darkness and ends him. So much more satisfying, in my opinion. It was so much better to have last seen her with the two people giving her the inspiration to do it and the knowledge of how to strike the heart was perfect.
Plenty of things to knock this episode on but to me, this is the most well executed portion so that's why it's so confounding to me that so many people hated it.
I have a big issue with it because you’re taking out arguably the biggest villain in the show. For me, I’d like to have this spelled out as much as possible. This isn’t one of the Night King’s Generals being taken out, this is the Night King. It may seem like it on here, but I’m not the only one questioning this decision on how Arya snuck up on him from the clouds.
I guess it all comes down to how much you believed Arya learned from her training with Jaqen. Because that’s what makes or breaks this scene. I remember her not fully committing to the training and her wanting it to serve her own purpose. Jaqen and Waif grew tired of Arya’s attitude and Jaqen ordered Waif to kill her. Arya was never fully All in on the training and it seems the show gave her full powers without her really earning it IMO. It’s fine we disagree but it stinks there’s a divide on a big moment like this.
People are still emailing BM asking what the spiral patterns mean. I don't know why. It's just the same stone spiral around the weirwood tree that the Night King was originally created at (pics below are from the same tree while he was being created and after he was created).
The creators went into further unnecessary details by saying that it's just his way of mocking the Children of the Forest patterns, like a satan worshiper would use an upside down cross to mock God.
Seems weird that Sam would be like "according to this scroll, the CotF used this spiral pattern as a symbol for creation, so the Night King must be bastardizing it as a symbol for death and destruction." The Children of the Forest are dead, so how are we going to learn more about what exactly their patterns mean? Is that something that people really want to learn about on screen?
It's a matter of personal preference so I am not dogging anyone who wants it but I don't quite understand why some want everything spelled out on the screen. Would the tension have been better if we saw her sneaking around and then take off running and jumping at the NK? Maybe. But I think the moment of everything moving so slow and the shared stares back and forth and wondering what the hell was going to happen and then....Arya leaps from the darkness and ends him. So much more satisfying, in my opinion. It was so much better to have last seen her with the two people giving her the inspiration to do it and the knowledge of how to strike the heart was perfect.
Plenty of things to knock this episode on but to me, this is the most well executed portion so that's why it's so confounding to me that so many people hated it.
I have a big issue with it because you’re taking out arguably the biggest villain in the show. For me, I’d like to have this spelled out as much as possible. This isn’t one of the Night King’s Generals being taken out, this is the Night King. It may seem like it on here, but I’m not the only one questioning this decision on how Arya snuck up on him from the clouds.
I guess it all comes down to how much you believed Arya learned from her training with Jaqen. Because that’s what makes or breaks this scene. I remember her not fully committing to the training and her wanting it to serve her own purpose. Jaqen and Waif grew tired of Arya’s attitude and Jaqen ordered Waif to kill her. Arya was never fully All in on the training and it seems the show gave her full powers without her really earning it IMO. It’s fine we disagree but it stinks there’s a divide on a big moment like this.
For sure. And my comment wasn't aimed SPECIFICALLY at you, you just happened to be the most recent. :-) I've seen a few others share your view. Which is why I am not trying to attack it so much as understand it.
Not only do I think are we supposed to know she learned from Jaqen, but Jon, Sandor, Yoren, Syrio, Brienne, the prophecy from Melisandre. She has had people guiding her and shaping her up to be a killer and Bran gave her the tool, meant to kill him, to save him and everyone.
If I was expecting anybody to kill the Night King, it was Dany, with the dragon. That was the point of Bran baiting the Night King, right? So Jon and Dany could ambush him with the dragons. That expectation is the only reason why the twist of dragonfire not killing the Night King works. The twist that I was really hoping for was that Dany would end up becoming a Night's Queen and ruling north of the Wall.
In another thread, I half-seriously suggested having Faceless Men kill the Night King, but I thought it was a silly idea that could never happen. It made more sense to me that the magical biggest bad on Planetos needed to be killed by the other magical big bads on Planetos (Dany and the dragons). As I think somebody said upthread, not having Dany kill the Night King has made her redundant.
I expected Arya to sneak into King's Landing and kill Cersei. Now that Arya has killed the Night King, who is going to kill Cersei? Arya again?
So after 3rd watch. I’m a bigger fan of the episode. I’m still not cool with the fact that a bunch of characters definitely should have died as they were overwhelmed by wights. But I’ve come around on the Arya killing. She definitely sneaks past the white walkers and simply jump attacks the night king. Which I can see as plausible given her abilities. Also they made some hints in the episode that she was always the one meant to kill him. I just noticed on 3rd watch that Melisandre tells her the same thing as Syrio. “What do we tell the God of Death?” Which was Super cool.
Also watching again the stream was waaay better. And having a pretty new smart TV made things really easy. All I had to do was changing the settings to Vivid or Sports and it was a huge difference to what I watched the first time. The picture below is the contrast. It looks so much better on rewatch with the proper settings.
Now that I’ve paused and adjusted my settings, the third watch is so much better. It was actually more mysterious though when I couldn’t see. But I’m at the trench lighting scene, and nothing before was
Here’s my issue...these shots are before Theon charged the Night King, when the NK just entered the area. After he kills Theon he walks a CONSIDERABLE distance to confront Bran. Yes, there was a gap but Arya would have had to run a good 20-30 yards before even jumping on the NK. Again, I’m not doubting Arya’s swordsmanship skills here. I believe she could pull off the dagger move. My issue is the sneak attack. There are shots right after she sticks the dagger in him of White Walkers guarding the NK all the way up to the tree. I’d have a hard time believing Neo from the Matrix could pull off this sneak attack let alone Arya.
I just rewatched last night, and what stood out is that in the Godswood there are a bunch of trees other than the wierwood, including ones that are in the direction Arya came from. So my theory is she could've have gone to the Godswood before the wights/white walkers arrived and hid in one those trees. Between the snow/smoke/darkness and ninja skills it would be easy for her to go unnoticed. And then when everyone is focused on the NK and Bran she could jump down and wouldn't have to cover nearly as much distance - maybe just a few meters.
@All the Chickens But why is he mocking the Children? They created him. Is he pissed they made him damn near immortal and with seemingly endless amounts of power? I can't remember if this is the case in the books but I am wondering if the Children started granting Greensight to the humans as a way to combat the out of control NK. Maybe that's when they Kickstarted the Three Eyed Raven initiative.
It's a matter of personal preference so I am not dogging anyone who wants it but I don't quite understand why some want everything spelled out on the screen. Would the tension have been better if we saw her sneaking around and then take off running and jumping at the NK? Maybe. But I think the moment of everything moving so slow and the shared stares back and forth and wondering what the hell was going to happen and then....Arya leaps from the darkness and ends him. So much more satisfying, in my opinion. It was so much better to have last seen her with the two people giving her the inspiration to do it and the knowledge of how to strike the heart was perfect.
Plenty of things to knock this episode on but to me, this is the most well executed portion so that's why it's so confounding to me that so many people hated it.
I have a big issue with it because you’re taking out arguably the biggest villain in the show. For me, I’d like to have this spelled out as much as possible. This isn’t one of the Night King’s Generals being taken out, this is the Night King. It may seem like it on here, but I’m not the only one questioning this decision on how Arya snuck up on him from the clouds.
I guess it all comes down to how much you believed Arya learned from her training with Jaqen. Because that’s what makes or breaks this scene. I remember her not fully committing to the training and her wanting it to serve her own purpose. Jaqen and Waif grew tired of Arya’s attitude and Jaqen ordered Waif to kill her. Arya was never fully All in on the training and it seems the show gave her full powers without her really earning it IMO. It’s fine we disagree but it stinks there’s a divide on a big moment like this.
She was never fully all in, but yet she lured and beat a Faceless man in single combat while wounded. I mean the closest corollary I can think of would be if Luke got his hand cut off in Empire and still managed to win that fight, and then fans are saying "Luke's not really a Jedi." @Anominal - this is why I was saying people were questioning Arya...and not just the setup of the scene.
Yet, Jon somehow becomes the best swordsman in the land after training with Ser Cassel (?) and...He wades solo through a zombie horde when Brienne can't? FWIW, I think Brienne would kick Jon's ass in a straight fight. So would the Hound.
People are still emailing BM asking what the spiral patterns mean. I don't know why. It's just the same stone spiral around the weirwood tree that the Night King was originally created at (pics below are from the same tree while he was being created and after he was created).
The creators went into further unnecessary details by saying that it's just his way of mocking the Children of the Forest patterns, like a satan worshiper would use an upside down cross to mock God.
Seems weird that Sam would be like "according to this scroll, the CotF used this spiral pattern as a symbol for creation, so the Night King must be bastardizing it as a symbol for death and destruction." The Children of the Forest are dead, so how are we going to learn more about what exactly their patterns mean? Is that something that people really want to learn about on screen?
Murderbear said:For sure. And my comment wasn't aimed SPECIFICALLY at you, you just happened to be the most recent. :-) I've seen a few others share your view. Which is why I am not trying to attack it so much as understand it.
Not only do I think are we supposed to know she learned from Jaqen, but Jon, Sandor, Yoren, Syrio, Brienne, the prophecy from Melisandre. She has had people guiding her and shaping her up to be a killer and Bran gave her the tool, meant to kill him, to save him and everyone.
The parts missing for me are that Bran never told anyone as far as we know how the night king was created. If Arya knew that he took a dragonglass dagger to the heart she could have surmised that this would be his weak spot.
Actually, that would have been Benjens job, really, since he got a similar treatment. He should have been at Winterfell preparing everybody including Arya. We have seen white walkers getting killed by both Valyrian steel and dragonglass if hit hard anywhere with it and the people in Winterfell know that. It's hard for be to believe that the night king could be killed by a dragonglass arrow in his leg so the specific weak spot should have been a greater deal and not just dumb luck. Many Bothans Dothraki should have died rushing the night king and piercing him with dragonglass arrows from horseback to bring us this information. If they initially saw a chance to take him out it would have been worth the mad rush only to be crushed. I would have had Daenerys attack with Drogon at the end of that same scene followed by a panic retreat.
Here’s my issue...these shots are before Theon charged the Night King, when the NK just entered the area. After he kills Theon he walks a CONSIDERABLE distance to confront Bran. Yes, there was a gap but Arya would have had to run a good 20-30 yards before even jumping on the NK. Again, I’m not doubting Arya’s swordsmanship skills here. I believe she could pull off the dagger move. My issue is the sneak attack. There are shots right after she sticks the dagger in him of White Walkers guarding the NK all the way up to the tree. I’d have a hard time believing Neo from the Matrix could pull off this sneak attack let alone Arya.
I don't know if it's already been mentioned in the previous pages, but I thought Melissandre gave a pretty clear clue that Arya can wear the face of a White Walker. “I see a darkness in you, and in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, eyes you’ll shut forever. We will meet again.”
The show did soooooo much to foreshadow this sneak attack: -They told you we are going to lead the NK in for a sneak attack w/ bait. -Got the NK fixated on Bran and his whole entourage has their back turned. -Bran gives Arya dagger at same location. -Arya sneaks up on John at same location. -Arya trains to be "no one" so she can go unseen. -Arya even loses her freakin' sight during her training of how to be an unseen assassin. -The Melissandre node I started with about "I see blue eyes staring back" -Melissandre then again in the episode saying "yo remember what I said about blue eyes" -The Arya switch of hand during sparring with Brienne. -NK getting stabbed basically in the same spot at the same tree the Children of the Forest made him.
There I got to 10. 10 instances deep of foreshadowing. Did I miss any?
I don't know if it's already been mentioned in the previous pages, but I thought Melissandre gave a pretty clear clue that Arya can wear the face of a White Walker. “I see a darkness in you, and in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, eyes you’ll shut forever. We will meet again.”
The show did soooooo much to foreshadow this sneak attack: -They told you we are going to lead the NK in for a sneak attack w/ bait. -Got the NK fixated on Bran and his whole entourage has their back turned. -Bran gives Arya dagger at same location. -Arya sneaks up on John at same location. -Arya trains to be "no one" so she can go unseen. -Arya even loses her freakin' sight during her training of how to be an unseen assassin. -The Melissandre node I started with about "I see blue eyes staring back" -Melissandre then again in the episode saying "yo remember what I said about blue eyes" -The Arya switch of hand during sparring with Brienne. -NK getting stabbed basically in the same spot at the same tree the Children of the Forest made him.
There I got to 10. 10 instances deep of foreshadowing. Did I miss any?
@All the Chickens But why is he mocking the Children? They created him. Is he pissed they made him damn near immortal and with seemingly endless amounts of power? I can't remember if this is the case in the books but I am wondering if the Children started granting Greensight to the humans as a way to combat the out of control NK. Maybe that's when they Kickstarted the Three Eyed Raven initiative.
I think it's a classic Creator/Monster relationship. God created Satan, but that doesn't mean he's going to be eternally grateful for being created and given powers.
I don't know if we can use anything from the books. In the books the Night King doesn't exist, or at least no leader of the Others has come forward. We know basically nothing about the Others in the books. They've only shown up a handful of times and they are shrouded in mystery.
We don't know how they were created, if they have any leadership or structure, what their relationship to the CoTF is, what they want, etc.
I don't know if it's already been mentioned in the previous pages, but I thought Melissandre gave a pretty clear clue that Arya can wear the face of a White Walker. “I see a darkness in you, and in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, eyes you’ll shut forever. We will meet again.”
The show did soooooo much to foreshadow this sneak attack: -They told you we are going to lead the NK in for a sneak attack w/ bait. -Got the NK fixated on Bran and his whole entourage has their back turned. -Bran gives Arya dagger at same location. -Arya sneaks up on John at same location. -Arya trains to be "no one" so she can go unseen. -Arya even loses her freakin' sight during her training of how to be an unseen assassin. -The Melissandre node I started with about "I see blue eyes staring back" -Melissandre then again in the episode saying "yo remember what I said about blue eyes" -The Arya switch of hand during sparring with Brienne. -NK getting stabbed basically in the same spot at the same tree the Children of the Forest made him.
There I got to 10. 10 instances deep of foreshadowing. Did I miss any?
One thing I have seen being mentioned but not on the podcast was Jon glancing off screen at something above him, and then preparing to sacrifice by distracting Viserion. He screams, as he prepares to be burned (would he have been?) "Go, Go, Go!"... Presumably, he was speaking to Arya, as 10 seconds later she makes it to the Night King.
This also leads me to wonder, if the Lord of Light brings people back to fulfill a certain purpose, what is/was Jons purpose? Has that been completely fulfilled? Hmm.
One thing I have seen being mentioned but not on the podcast was Jon glancing off screen at something above him, and then preparing to sacrifice by distracting Viserion. He screams, as he prepares to be burned (would he have been?) "Go, Go, Go!"... Presumably, he was speaking to Arya, as 10 seconds later she makes it to the Night King.
This also leads me to wonder, if the Lord of Light brings people back to fulfill a certain purpose, what is/was Jons purpose? Has that been completely fulfilled? Hmm.
I'm fine with Jon having fulfilled his purpose, although I still think he has some major part to play at the end. I don't think Arya being the one who stuck the NK with the pointy end takes away from Jon being the ultimate hero of the story. If not for Jon, there would be no defense or awareness of the army of the dead. The Wildlings and northerners would have all killed each other before the Night King came in to mop up the rest and make his way south. Arya would have never even had a shot at the NK. Hell, Bran would have been killed in season 4 by the mutineers.
Just finished the podcast. In answer to why the nk was immune to Dragonfire but not Valerian steel, I think if the Dragonfire hit him he would have died. However, we've seen before he has the power to extinguish flames. It seems to me that he just shielded himself with that power. The Valerian steel actually stabbed him.
Comments
If you do discount those posts, then it’s mostly complaints about the loft that Arya has or the logistics of a closed courtyard...and others cite plenty of evidence of Arya being fully capable as assassin. Other than Bran dying, there’s no other plausible outcome.
I don’t know...I was entertained which and have been all the way through which is what I want from a tv show.
Plenty of things to knock this episode on but to me, this is the most well executed portion so that's why it's so confounding to me that so many people hated it.
I guess it all comes down to how much you believed Arya learned from her training with Jaqen. Because that’s what makes or breaks this scene. I remember her not fully committing to the training and her wanting it to serve her own purpose. Jaqen and Waif grew tired of Arya’s attitude and Jaqen ordered Waif to kill her. Arya was never fully All in on the training and it seems the show gave her full powers without her really earning it IMO. It’s fine we disagree but it stinks there’s a divide on a big moment like this.
The creators went into further unnecessary details by saying that it's just his way of mocking the Children of the Forest patterns, like a satan worshiper would use an upside down cross to mock God.
Seems weird that Sam would be like "according to this scroll, the CotF used this spiral pattern as a symbol for creation, so the Night King must be bastardizing it as a symbol for death and destruction."
The Children of the Forest are dead, so how are we going to learn more about what exactly their patterns mean? Is that something that people really want to learn about on screen?
Not only do I think are we supposed to know she learned from Jaqen, but Jon, Sandor, Yoren, Syrio, Brienne, the prophecy from Melisandre. She has had people guiding her and shaping her up to be a killer and Bran gave her the tool, meant to kill him, to save him and everyone.
I just rewatched last night, and what stood out is that in the Godswood there are a bunch of trees other than the wierwood, including ones that are in the direction Arya came from. So my theory is she could've have gone to the Godswood before the wights/white walkers arrived and hid in one those trees. Between the snow/smoke/darkness and ninja skills it would be easy for her to go unnoticed. And then when everyone is focused on the NK and Bran she could jump down and wouldn't have to cover nearly as much distance - maybe just a few meters.
Yet, Jon somehow becomes the best swordsman in the land after training with Ser Cassel (?) and...He wades solo through a zombie horde when Brienne can't? FWIW, I think Brienne would kick Jon's ass in a straight fight. So would the Hound.
Midichlorians.
I don't know if it's already been mentioned in the previous pages, but I thought Melissandre gave a pretty clear clue that Arya can wear the face of a White Walker. “I see a darkness in you, and in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, eyes you’ll shut forever. We will meet again.”
The show did soooooo much to foreshadow this sneak attack:
-They told you we are going to lead the NK in for a sneak attack w/ bait.
-Got the NK fixated on Bran and his whole entourage has their back turned.
-Bran gives Arya dagger at same location.
-Arya sneaks up on John at same location.
-Arya trains to be "no one" so she can go unseen.
-Arya even loses her freakin' sight during her training of how to be an unseen assassin.
-The Melissandre node I started with about "I see blue eyes staring back"
-Melissandre then again in the episode saying "yo remember what I said about blue eyes"
-The Arya switch of hand during sparring with Brienne.
-NK getting stabbed basically in the same spot at the same tree the Children of the Forest made him.
There I got to 10. 10 instances deep of foreshadowing. Did I miss any?
edit: oh wow check this shit out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChxMIhi8xbk
Edit: "You come at the king..."
I don't know if we can use anything from the books. In the books the Night King doesn't exist, or at least no leader of the Others has come forward. We know basically nothing about the Others in the books. They've only shown up a handful of times and they are shrouded in mystery.
We don't know how they were created, if they have any leadership or structure, what their relationship to the CoTF is, what they want, etc.
Chills.
This also leads me to wonder, if the Lord of Light brings people back to fulfill a certain purpose, what is/was Jons purpose? Has that been completely fulfilled? Hmm.
If not for Jon, there would be no defense or awareness of the army of the dead. The Wildlings and northerners would have all killed each other before the Night King came in to mop up the rest and make his way south. Arya would have never even had a shot at the NK. Hell, Bran would have been killed in season 4 by the mutineers.