503 - "High Sparrow" - SPOILERS



  • judybikas said:

    Ummm...in trying to make a marriage pact between Sansa and Ramsay, isn't Littlefinger forgetting one little fact? Sansa is already married to Tyrion. The only way he could legitimize such a marriage would be to get the High Septon to annul the first marriage since it was not consummated.

    LF assured Roose that the marriage was not consummated, and therefor not valid. I'm not sure his exact words, but Roose said he didn't care about her honor just that the marriage would solidify his control of the north.

  • edited April 2015
    Yeah, It seems in the show Sansa doesn't need an annulment and they are just going with "she's clearly a virgin, so it's cool". And I don't think there is anything in the show that contradicts that.

    I'm not going to get pre-upset until I see what happens. But, man, am I super nervous about this plot. It's going to be so easy for them to get it so wrong and while I trust the writers with many things, I'm not sure I trust them with this.
  • I don't trust it at all
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    @judybikas About annulment, I think possession is 9/10ths of the law. If their side wins that's what really counts. Everything can be made legal after the fact. You notice the Roose didn't care that Sansa was 'whole' he only wanted her.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    Her name to be exact
  • Glen said:

    Tyrion, Jorah and the new red priestess will end up on a boat or traveling together to Mereen, but is Varys done with the traveling roadshow? I assume he sneaks his way back to Kings Landing to further corrode the lannister reign.

    Also am I the only one that thinks (obviously show only) that Varys set this up? I think back to Tyrion questioning why go this town. Varys had some reason for going this way that appears to be out of the way.
  • Was thinking about the Jon snow R&L=J theory today and more I think about it I recon this is why they have left out the prince Aagon story from this season. Would of gotten more confusing if there suddenly found not one but two secret targarygen's turn up. With the way they have swapped storylines around to fit Current cast it would make sense.
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
     Aron I think you had some people pretending that they werent book readers sending in some way too on point feedback for the High Sparrow cast. The stuff about Margaery and her sexual reputation is only really in the books and the stuff about Azor Ahai hasnt been mentioned at all in the show. Pretty sure thats a strictly book thing. 
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX

    Not sure how the Cersei plot will play out exactly, but from the EW article I can tell you that the final result will be the same.
  • image

    If only Sansa knew that heros do exist
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Here's my guess Cersei has called Littlefinger back to cause chaos between Loras and Olyvar so she can fck with Margery and make sure she doesn't have to marry Loras.
  • uncle_guncle_g CA, USA
    edited April 2015
    Hey, @A_Ron_Hubbard ;you're probably ahead of us here, but similar to @Elisa above,  It occurred to me today what is in the letter to Littlefinger...

    Remember the scene in a prior episode where Margaery (sp?) was speaking with Loras and Olyvar was in bed with him.  What happened:
    1) Loras exclaimed that it was well known that he 'swallowed swords', so to speak, and he didn't care who knew 
    2) Margaery very obviously checked Olyvar out.... 

    Now, As Jim mentioned, this does seem to be the first time that Margaery has acted so lasciviously.  (Her offer to take Loras' into her marital bed with Renly was born out of desperation to consummate/produce an heir and also was very much more for her partner than herself.  Because of that I think it really only serves to prove an openness to "nontraditional" relations;  nothing more significant).

    So it is clear to me that Cersei will have LF charge Olyvar with exploiting his "well-known" relationship with Loras to maneuver his way into Margaery's bed (after all, despite Margaery's bragging...how good can a 13-year-old newly-non-virgin possibly be....  I know how I would have been.). 

    The question in my mind is: does she need LF actually in King's Landing to arrange this -- after all, wouldn't it take a long time to get back to KL for him to then spend all of 5 minutes arranging this with Olyvar who has served in this capacity before?  How much of this could realistically be done via ravens?  If she does require him, it's probably just as much to get him out of Winterfell so those events can unfold without him as they do in the book...

    More (weaker) evidence.... there must have been more than just "Come back to KL ASAP!" in that note...otherwise would Bolton have still insisted on seeing the reply?

    Humblt submitted,

    PS:  ....then again.... maybe "Tommen the Uncommon" is the next "Pod the Rod"

    (PPS.  my @ handle is different than my sign-in name... how did that happen?  How can I change it?)
  • Isn't this in the books? Cersei continues to fuck everything up, and things are falling apart more and more all the time, and they have lots of small council meetings where she mentions (or wonders in her head) that Littlefinger is incommunicado and no one knows where he is? Or am I confusing that with his absence prior to the purple wedding?

    As for the Olyvar stuff, I agree this makes sense given that he's a character we already know. I miss the Kettleblacks though. They were such great, dumb patsys and I think they would have been funny to watch. On the other hand, show Cersei is not quite as bat shit (or promiscuous) as book Cersei, so maybe they would have been over the top.

    Anyway from the trailer next week it looks like Cersei is making a move with or without LF. The Marge plan is moving really fast, just like ALL the storylines this season. Do you guys think that's because they finally have freedom to move at their own pace? I felt that previous seasons dragged or had invented side plots (pod the rod), just to stay on pace with the books.
  • After listening to the podcast today I have a couple of reactions. One listener said in season 2 Renley had seemed to of just meet Brienne for the first time. But if you watch that scene again brienne defeats Loras then is presented to Renley with Loras, Margarie, and Lady Cat in attendance. Renley tells the Brienne to remove her helm then everybody but Renley looks surprised that it was a woman he bested Loras. Renley did not look surprised he just says you are exactly what your father promised you were then calls her Brienne of Tarth and grants her any request.  So to me it seems like he new her by name knew her father so I think her story about the ball holds true.

    A few other listeners had said that they liked the show scene of Jon an Janos better, which is fine to each is own, but im pretty sure they said in the book it comes of as Jon being more hesitant. I dont see that at all. The book takes time  to set up the reader to think Jon will show mercy but then he tells Ed to fetch the block. The reason for this is his Fathers words of he who passes the sentance should swing the sword. In the show he goes straight to the sword but then takes a moments hesitation before beheading Janos.

  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH

     Aron I think you had some people pretending that they werent book readers sending in some way too on point feedback for the High Sparrow cast. The stuff about Margaery and her sexual reputation is only really in the books and the stuff about Azor Ahai hasnt been mentioned at all in the show. Pretty sure thats a strictly book thing. 

    Nah, they've talked about Azor Ahai plenty in the show.  As far as Marge goes, I have to go with what a observant fan could pick up from the show, and her being "wanton" has been fairly well established, I mean, recall her "oh, Sansa," moment when the two were talking about being worried about their wedding night, and the other stuff I already mentioned on the cast.  I was kind of on the edge of reading that or not, but in the end I think it's somewhat reasonable to say that someone could infer that as a Cersei scheme.  It always comes down to a judgment call.

    I can't wait until next week is over, as that's the last week of the leaks.  I've been living in mortal terror that someone would make a "theory" based on those, and I'd be powerless to prevent it.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    I'm wondering if they'll go Anne Boleyn with Margarey and Loras and accuse them of having orgies together with Olyvar and Renly. That is a change that I could get behind. I like that it would accuse Marg/Loras of the incestual relationship that Cersei & Jaime are truly in (minus threesomes)
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    I like that @steph_b

    I got spoiled today by a prominent critic who vaguetweeted about episode 4.  I'm not a spoiler phobe, but I don't seek them out either.  It just surprised me that a critic would do something like that.  I am excited about it, though.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    @pavlovsbell What critic pulled a whoopsie?
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    @ksa1001  It was James Poniewozik, from Time, and a couple of AV Club reviewers joined in.  Completely unsullied people would have no idea what they were talking about, but it seemed obvious to me.  Now watch me be totally wrong.
  • In the show they Said Roose and Ramsay were talking about House Cerwyn. a minor house loyal to Stark with the only known remaining is the plump and homely Jonelle Cerwyn. Moat Cailin, as far as I know, is not held by any certain house. I think its kind of like the Gate of the Moon in the Vale which is held by whoever the Warden of the East puts there, it is not a heretary held caslte. Greywater Watch is the castle held by the Reeds.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Ah, I couldn't figure it out and didn't have subtitles available.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited May 2015
    Mance didnt have the horn of Joruman. Sam has it! It was the broken dragon glass horn in the bag Jon found at the Fist of the First Men.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    Wait. Is this the right thread to use to comment on the Spoilore cast?
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited May 2015
    Also, I agree about Victarion's purpose being to deliver the horn. Also to get her some ships and to help win the Battle of Mereen.

    I also believe that Bran will warg a dragon.

    I agree with the feedback comment that Dany won't ever sit the Iron Throne and I have long hoped that monarchy is destroyed in the end. I think Dany will die before the series is over.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    I love the debunking Howland Reed/High Sparrow theory. I hate the theory so hard. It's my least favorite of the popular theories.
  • ShumShum Utah
    Dang, that's a good theory. Olly killed Ygritte, so he's definitely capable of killing Jon, but I can totally see Thorne doing it as well.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    I say they'll go shades of Roose stabbing Rob and go with the one you don't expect to betray. A real et tu moment. Olly seems perfect for that but it's also terribly predictable. The ASOIAF and GOT franchise is built on a foundation of not being predictable so I hope straying from the books doesn't land us in utterly and hopelessly predictable land.

    On second thought, maybe Thorne is the more predictable out of Thorne and Olly though all the foreshadowing seems to be heavily in Olly territory. I like to think they will build up the mutual respect between Thorne and Jon so that by the time Thorne stabs him we are all surprised that he still holds the grudge. So all the blatant camera focusing on Olly is a redirect/red herring.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Agree Olly and Thorne
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Only way it would suck worse than having Olly do it is if they have Ed do it.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Enjoyed the Melisandre daughter of Sheira and Bloodraven spoilore.  I still do not get or believe in the Howland Reed is the High Sparrow theory though. Hahahahah

    That said I do hope at the end the whole absolute ruler thing and screw the small folks in Westeros is a thing of the past. Hoping for more of a coalition government which seemed to be Rhaegar's hidden agenda before he met his untimely death in the books.
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