711 - "Time and Life"

Director: Lane Pryce
Writer:???
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Comments

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    THE KING ORDERED IT.

    After seasons of these perfectly wonderful outbursts, a handful of which would have satisfied me, it's like they brainstormed the most ridiculous thing for him to yell as a final gift to us and wrenched it into the script. I want to kiss them all.
    historicstorksteph_bpavlovsbellAmbitiousBukkyAntManBee
  • historicstorkhistoricstork Detroitburbs
    edited April 2015
    Did anyone else get some real Lolz this week? Don closing, then opening the conf room curtains, Ken toying with Pete, the Campbell family feud sucker punch. It was all great, and I'm sure there were more comedic bits I'm forgetting.

    The strongest scene was Peggy and Stan coming to an understanding of what had happened both at the office and in her life. Out of many good scenes this week, that was my favorite.

    Overall, i think this episode put the cards on the table in regards to the finality of Mad Men, the series. These characters finally got the agency they had worked, fucked, pleaded, pitched, got shot, and suffered for; then the mega agency comes along and absorbs everything. The partners seemed resigned to careers at McCann taking some unknown roles in prestigious accounts. Poor Joan.

    So long, Ken.
    steph_bAmbitiousBukky
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited April 2015
    Yes, one of those lovely mover-and-shaker episodes that I've been craving. Those always seem to be peppered with humor. I can't wait for analysis, because there seem to be repeated motifs. The one which comes to mind right now is people being firmly shot down. "I want to do this thing here." "No." "But just..." "NO."

    A lot of "no's." I wondered if that would be reflected in the title, as I hadn't looked at it beforehand, but it is decidedly not.
    steph_b
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited April 2015
    First episode of this new half-season that got the fires burning in me for Mad Men again!

    So many great bits. First of all, never thought the day would come when I could enjoy a punch given by Pete as much as a punch taken by Pete. He DOES NOT deserve Trudy, but it was nice to see him defend her. Lou being a dick to the very last, "Sayonara, enjoy the rest of your miserable life!"  Lou, with your height, you are going to be the miserable one living in Japan, nothing is made for your size!!!  Don's line - "what's in a name?", a nice, to what is now, throwback, to Dick Whitman. Roger taking Don's face in his hands, telling him "you are okay" and giving him a kiss. If that is the last heart to heart we ever see between those two, that would be okay for me because that very sweet. Peggy and Stan's discussion about the changing future of their jobs and Peggy's past. And later, them keeping each other on the phone for comfort, that was sooo cute I can't even stand it. :)  

    It was the first episode of this season I immediately wanted to watch again when it ended, I can't wait for next week!
    steph_bpavlovsbellksa1001
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    My favourite thing was the last scene of the 5 in their various terrible 70s outfits. Don looking dapper to audience eyes in classic black slim cut suit but probably hopelessly out of date to the others, Roger and Teddy trying to groove it up in their mid-to-late-life-crisis costumes, and Pete in some kind of crazy old man 3 piece ensemble. Gold.
    steph_b
  • On a hunch I looked up what happened 4 score and 7 years ago (based
    on Don's scene last week). 1970-87 =1883. What is the first entry in
    that year's wiki list of notable events?

    "January 4 – Life magazine is founded in Los Angeles"

    AmbitiousBukky
  • Jared Harris directing a Pete Campbell punch scene is some kind of mad-poetic brilliance. Loved this episode. It was clear last week, and even more so last night...we're riding it out with the fantastic four of Don, Peggy, Joan and Pete. As it should be.
    steph_b
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Ah, you beat me to it The_Third_Man.  Knowing Harris directed this episode, when Pete fired off that 300 years in the making punch hot on the heels of THE KING ORDERED IT!! had me rolling.  

    Also really appreciated Peggy and Stan reverting back to their co-working over the phone days even though the still technically work for the same firm.  It's their "going to the  mattresses mode", and I loved that detail. 
  • Jared Harris directing a Pete Campbell punch scene is some kind of mad-poetic brilliance. Loved this episode. It was clear last week, and even more so last night...we're riding it out with the fantastic four of Don, Peggy, Joan and Pete. As it should be.

    Edit to fab five of Don, Peggy, Joan, Pete and Roger. Sheesh. My mistake.
  • Ah, you beat me to it The_Third_Man.  Knowing Harris directed this episode, when Pete fired off that 300 years in the making punch hot on the heels of THE KING ORDERED IT!! had me rolling.  

    Also really appreciated Peggy and Stan reverting back to their co-working over the phone days even though the still technically work for the same firm.  It's their "going to the  mattresses mode", and I loved that detail. 

    You said it...this ep was filled with those great moments of a sort of Mad Men nostalgia. Weiner is great at those.
  • StephenStephen New York


    It’s less likely that Pete was defending Trudy than avenging
    an attack on the Campbell name, and by extension, himself. Pete has always
    incorporated Trudy when dressing up his acts of petty vengeance against personal
    slights as gallantry. Recall his enlisting Trudy to justify his bailing out on Roger’s wedding under the
    pretext of honoring JFK’s passing when he was angry about his job status. This
    is a guy who, having failed in his attempt to exploit the national tragedy of
    MLK’s assassination to gain entry to his former home, launched an attack
    against Harry Crane’s unprincipled self-interest, even mimicking Trudy’s
    use of the word “shameful” in the course of delivering his invective.



     



    Consider that Pete is more concerned that Tammy’s stick
    figure suggests the appearance of Trudy’s paramour than that it suggests that
    his daughter might be developmentally disadvantaged. Oddly, Trudy’s naked
    attempt to exploit Pete’s family name reveals a side of her that, while not
    necessarily lowering her to the level of Pete’s moral pigsty, puts her a little
    closer to the mud. Her subsequent flush at Pete’s attack on the headmaster, and
    her sudden re-casting of his never-ending fight for self-interest as the more
    positive “never taking no for an answer” are pretty much all that Pete could
    want from a woman, and we begin to remember why they were once such a good match.
    These grimier 70’s Campbells are, in their own way, almost as endearing as the
    couple that Charleston-ed their way into our hearts on that Derby Day long ago.



    steph_bksa1001AntManBee
  • StephenStephen New York

    Megan is through with the soaps, but the soaps aren’t
    through with her. Roger’s dating Marie. Roger and Joan have a child. Peggy and
    Pete have a child. Stan has no children that he knows of. What are the odds
    that Peggy’s ex-fling Ted’s new girlfriend ISN’T Diana?


  • This was an episode for great pay-offs
    for seven seasons of consistent storytelling and character development - 

    An unsuspecting scene with Pete and
    Trudy that organically develops to a crescendo where Pete defends the cowardly
    murderous actions of his ancestors by saying “The King ordered them to do it.”  Then
    Cosgrove, after years of moral beat downs gets the satisfaction of rejecting  Roger,  when
    Roger is at his lowest and most vulnerable, which is an opportunity that
    Cosgrove only earned by further selling his soul. – Then the amazing scene
    where Peggy asks the gut wrenching question to the stage Mom, “who would do
    that to their child?”  To me this is Mad Men at its best.





    Also,  A_Ron, I imagine the sails
    on the  SS-Peggy+Stan are flying high about now, No?

    pavlovsbellsteph_bAntManBee
  • davidjacobsdavidjacobs Portland, OR
    Agreed aberry89, finally a Mad Men worthy of the shows greatness. Man, I really thought we were going to get one last great Don pitch, which I was so looking forward to, but then the complete shutdown. What a curve ball and them all sitting there just shocked. Great stuff. 

    Feel sorry for Joan. As a women, she is going to get screwed over at McCan, but with her new boyfriend, she can afford to walk away, at least financially. 

    Was great to see Don energized and engaged again. Have not seen that in awhile. For all his foibles and mess ups, he's still one of the great creative ad men around. That's how I would like to remember him. 
    ksa1001
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    edited April 2015
    @martelo  Oh, the ship is sailing on all sails at this point :)  I am going to cross my fingers and hope for the best. Peg and Stan are just too fucking cute together not realize it for themselves. 
    steph_bmartelo
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I wonder how the real McCann Erickson is taking this portrayal...

    Also, I had no idea that the McDonald/Campbell massacre was a real thing until someone told me this morning. What an awesomely obscure reference to work in there. Kudos, Weiner!
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @pavlovsbell Haha, that's great. :-)
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    I loved the episode and thought that it was by far the best of this final run.  However, I have a real problem with Peggy and her justification for giving up her child.

    I know everybody loves Peggy and roots for her, and she is clearly tortured by giving up her son, but it's complete bovine doo doo that she couldn't have had a child and a career.  Of course it would be more difficult, but not impossible.  Hell, Joan is doing it and only mildly regretting it.  And her assertion that she "doesn't know where he is not because I don't care but because I'm not supposed to " is even more selfish! She's had a closed adoption (which is pretty shitty for her son, if he should ever have any questions) so she won't have this sword of damocles over her guilty head.  And the fact that Stan absolves her, and that she's looking for absolution, bothers me.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @Andrew I don't think it's unrealistic. Joan had her mother, Peggy's situation with her mum is totally different. A single woman with a child would have had great difficulty having a career back then.
    steph_bJaimieTksa1001AmbitiousBukky
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited April 2015
    *slowly backs away*
    ksa1001
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited April 2015
    Andrew said:

    ..."doesn't know where he is not because I don't care but because I'm not supposed to"...

    I think this is actually selfless of her. The shitty thing is to be half-involved, to become an uninterested presence. As she stands now, she's not a presence at all. She doesn't factor in. With her son, that's all he's ever known. He'll be fine. He has a family, and she knows that, and she knows anything else is beyond her jurisdiction now.

    Dee said everything else I would say about the improbabily of Peggy having a career and an illegitimate child with her company's (married) head of accounts.
    steph_b
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    @Dee Yes, but she has no college education, had no work experience, and seemed to actively distance herself away from her family.  Saying that a child would mess up the already tentative situation she was in is just a cop out.  And she didn't even tell Pete, stripping him of his autonomy in the situation as well.  She actively sought to escape from the situation as unscathed as possible without taking any responsibility.

    Also, Is Peggy's mom great? No. But at least she likes cats.

    Full disclosure, I think I'm probably super deluxe biased.  I was born in Korea and some lady, no one knows who, took me to an adoption agency.  There was a hand written piece of paper with my name and birth date in the makeshift stroller.  The lady who brought me there asked to use the bathroom, and then Jackie Chan-ed out of the window before she could answer any questions.  It's a weird feeling to know that there's a part of my past that I'll never be able to connect to.  I know no medical history, and, before I had my son, had no blood connections to anyone in my life.  I also often find it odd that there's no one who has "known me" for the entirety of my life, as there are many people who have that and take it for granted.  It's something that doesn't necessarily bother me, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.
    ksa1001
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    @Andrew

    Peggy actually did tell Pete she had been pregnant. And she told him he was adopted. It was around the time Pete and his wife were thinking about adopting, and Pete was very much opposed to the idea, so it brought him down to earth. It was after the fact though, but i am not sure what Pete had done if he knew before the birth. 

    Obviously your past is going to give you feelings on the situation, which you are totally justified to have. Similar to Stan's relationship with motherhood through his experience as a child who felt unwanted by his mother. That is a basic human need, to have a parent. I guess the way I relate to Peggy is her not being great with children. I am not good with them either, I am not sure how to talk or interact with them. We push away something that makes us feel that way. As a woman, you feel doubly out of place, because that is still a standard held to us that we innately know how to care for them better than anyone. 

    And not to get too personal about your life, which I know very little about. But you have to know that the woman who birthed you does not forget you or her decision. I guarantee a day does not go by she doesn't think about who you are now and what your doing. I know, who cares, it's as good as having her as a mom. But that loss is not one sided. 




    steph_b
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @Andrew You are biased, and that's understandable. We are all shaped by our personal experience - I have been a single parent for many years so I'm touchy about blanket criticisms of single parenting; that's my bias. :-)

    However, I've also worked in welfare for over two decades and I know that everyone has a story. Circumstances differ for us all and I try not to judge anyone making a hard decision that I might not agree with personally because my circumstances are not the same as theirs. It would have been incredibly hard for any single woman with a child in the early 1960s, let alone a woman who wanted a career.

    And I can't speak for the U.S. but in Australia we were still forcibly removing babies from single mothers until the early 70s, so even if they DID want the baby they didn't get that choice. It's a complex issue and Peggy's story would not have been uncommon in those days, I would think.
    steph_bAmbitiousBukky
  • I was with Aron and Jim last week when they were talking about how Pete was an irredeemable scumbag rapist but i don't he kinda redeemed himself this episode. Still grimy Pete but slightly less grimy.....like he walked through a sprinkler for a few seconds. 
  • The tiki bar lives! It was visible during Lou's phone conversation with Don. Someone paid to have it hauled over to California. Was that also your wife's doing, Lou? Yeah, didn't think so.
    steph_b
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    Oh Lou...what a DICK

    Kudos to Don for not throwing HIS money in Lou's face.

    "You're excited over a 15K advance? I can write a 7-figure check to the ex w/o blinking bitch!" (Starts making it rain Jesse Pinkman style)
  • Harry Crane will probably love McCann and thrive there.  
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