805 - The Bells

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Comments

  • I just dont get how ppl are ok with how flat the arc has been.  6 ep wasnt enough and it shows. Euron shows up to basically do nothing. Golden company same. All the sudden dragon fire just becomes nuke fire that crushes and explodes? But the night king can absorb it and dies to arya.. which was ok and all. But hes a little op then and dies easily.

    Somehow danny can fly directly into fire of arrows and is much better than last time by like overnight becoming ace pilot. Its really not her fault.. its just shallow. Aryas whole plot this ep waste just a plain waste.

    The death of cercei and jaime i guess is ok... but again just short and shallow. 

    I get its expensive to film, but its not like ppl wouldnt have watched 13ep.

    Maybe the DDs just wanted to get it over with..

    They found out GRRM really atarted cutting corners and the plot just falls off a cliff. And they said f it we just gotta gtfo.

    This whole season. Just flat af. Filmed well. Looks great. Some great moments. But thats not gonna cover the zero arc story.

    Wtf the bran has nething at all to do in this series...idk. unless they fucking pull some insane time warp bran made danny do it. He basically has one moment with hodor and thats it. 

    I liked it from a stand alone each ep is a story point. The eps just dont have much building or  ombined value this season. And this being the final season makes the entire series just super flat plot wise.
    ken haleCapeGaberustywright4bborddarthcaedus1138gjames80
  • Some other thoughts besides Daenerys stuff-

    I was kind of disappointed in how Varys behaved. It's not really normal for a master of secrets to just bust out with all his secrets in like one day. 

    Lena Headey did some really nice work there while she was in her tower. Going from smug to scared shitless in minutes without even really speaking many words. She's obviously one of the biggest, if not biggest villians of the show but damn if I don't enjoy her every moment on screen. 
    ken halehisdudeness915Elisagjames80DaveyMacrkcrawf
  • edited May 13
    Lol so it's not OK for Arya to learn from the Hound and quit her petty vengeance tour in favor of going to live a life (literally and figuratively)? It was poetic that the Hounds last gift to someone he loves was to talk her into not sacrificing her life just to kill someone on her dumb list who was dead anyway.

    And yeah, I hope Arya goes after Dany. That would be great. Killing Dany at this would would be a great, needed deed. And after everything Arya just experienced, it make perfect sense. 

    There was a scene in one of the earlier seasons where Arya is talking to Tywin Lannister when she was fetching him his water and wine, where she recalls one of the sister Targaryan's riding a dragon in part of their conquest of whatever castle they were in hundreds of years ago.  She recalled the story with apparent glee as she clearly glorified the story.  I imagine she'll have a different appreciation of what an aerial bombardment actually entails now that she's been through one.  She probably just replaced one queen on her list with another, and that's fine by me.
    CeciliaMmajjam0770Demerolrkcrawf
  • A litany, of sorts.
    -Dragon being an omnipotent WMD is hogwash, based on everything they've shown us about dragons and ballistas, up to and including the very last episode
    -Dany's mad-queen turn was well-established, but not to the extent of the massacre we saw
    -The rapacity of all the Westerosi soldiers wasn't well-justified by anything we've seen on screen
    -Euron coming up out of the waves like he had a GPS on Jamie was dumb as hell
    -Jamie's character arc turning out to be a complete circle is frustrating, but probably fair
    -If they thought we were supposed to feel any feelings during that Cersei-Jamie scene, they were wrong
    -Arya turning from her #1 name at the last minute wasn't in-character
    -Jon Snow was there
    -Clegane bowl happened
    -Personally, I don't see why we spent so much time following Arya through the streets; main reason I think the episode wasn't well-paced
    -Everything was professionally filmed.  Looked nice.

    DuckofdoomElisarustywright4gjames80
  • And for all the ppl saying danny was in char to go mad.. yes and no. She literally starts with titles and titles breaker of chains to then just scrap all that?

    Freeer of ppls to just idk what now? And i get she snaps. Ok fine.

    But why she snaps and overcomes seasons and seasons and seasons of heroism building im different and better to do much much worsenthan anything she overthrew.. its not a hair pin. That pin is like turned so far in on it self its become hairpin-ception. Its quick its dirty and when you step back and look at ot from a whole its super forced.

    So was it in her character? Yes. Did they do it properly imo no.





    ken halejohnnytruantvisi0n
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 13
    I just dont get how ppl are ok with how flat the arc has been.  6 ep wasnt enough and it shows. Euron shows up to basically do nothing. Golden company same. All the sudden dragon fire just becomes nuke fire that crushes and explodes? But the night king can absorb it and dies to arya.. which was ok and all. But hes a little op then and dies easily.

    Somehow danny can fly directly into fire of arrows and is much better than last time by like overnight becoming ace pilot. Its really not her fault.. its just shallow. Aryas whole plot this ep waste just a plain waste.

    The death of cercei and jaime i guess is ok... but again just short and shallow. 

    I get its expensive to film, but its not like ppl wouldnt have watched 13ep.

    Maybe the DDs just wanted to get it over with..

    They found out GRRM really atarted cutting corners and the plot just falls off a cliff. And they said f it we just gotta gtfo.

    This whole season. Just flat af. Filmed well. Looks great. Some great moments. But thats not gonna cover the zero arc story.

    Wtf the bran has nething at all to do in this series...idk. unless they fucking pull some insane time warp bran made danny do it. He basically has one moment with hodor and thats it. 

    I liked it from a stand alone each ep is a story point. The eps just dont have much building or  ombined value this season. And this being the final season makes the entire series just super flat plot wise.
    The critiques in your first paragraph are difficult to respond to.

    The dragon fire has always been that way. It's a concussive force. The Night King didnt die because he is, apparently, immune to fire but is weak to dragon glass piercing through the dragonglass shard in his heart that originally created him. Nothing in this episode contradicts that.

    Euron killed a dragon and captured Danys right-hand woman in the last episode. Specifically in this episode, Euron did "nothing" except ensure that Jaime would die by giving him mortal wounds. 

    The Golden Company didnt have a chance to do anything because they were blown to pieces. Sometimes the less "badass" thing happens, such as a great sell sword army being cut down by a dragon before the battle begins. What were your expectations for them? Many people predicted that they wouldnt do anything this episode.

    The D&D wanting to get out quick thing just rings as illogical. You dont take nearly 2 years to write and produce 6 episodes of TV if you are just trying to slap something together to get out as quick as possible. That just doesnt make any logical sense.

    THEY SPENT MORE TIME ON SIX EPISODES THAN THEY WOUKD HAVE ON A REGULAR FULL SEASON OR 1.5 SEASONS.
    BentpelzychriskawookieeAaronrkcrawf
  • CeciliaM said:
    Lena Headey did some really nice work there while she was in her tower. Going from smug to scared shitless in minutes without even really speaking many words. She's obviously one of the biggest, if not biggest villians of the show but damn if I don't enjoy her every moment on screen. 
    They really did Lena Headey a disservice not writing her any interesting characters to talk to. She did most of her work emoting from at least 50 feet away and she's incredible. 
    majjam0770CeciliaMb.larevDJ_150rustywright4gjames80DaveyMac
  • edited May 13
    As someone who has not been happy with this show’s writing for quite sometime, I thought this was a great episode.  The imagery, the music, the action... especially seeing Cersei and Euron resoundingly defeated.  I was engaged start to finish.  The mad queen flip was set up poorly and was dumb, but I think they had to force it because that’s how GRRM said it would end.  GRRM will do a much better job telling that story though, if ever.  I’m not convinced Jaime was completely on Cersei’s side, but he probably wanted the child to survive which is why he went back to her, and once he saw she was defeated it’s not like he was going to kick her when she was down.
    This show botched all the characters once they moved past the books, so botching yet another character (Danaereys) shouldn’t be surprising.
    All the ChickensElisa
  • edited May 13
    Obviously a lot of that was mind-numbingly stupid, which is what the show has been for several seasons. But I liked Jaime vs Euron, and loved Jaime and Cersei dying together. And I completely disagree that Dany had no reason to burn the city. She knows that people fear her enough to surrender now, but will quickly go back to scheming and rebelling as soon as it's over. If she nukes the largest city on the continent for daring to resist her in the first place, no one else in Westeros is even going to let themselves think about defying the dragon queen. Mad queen logic, but it is a reason.

    But still...

    1 dragon > hundreds of ballistas on stable platforms with a clear view from a height

    2 dragons < dozens of ballistas on unstable ships far below

    Even so, this was the best episode this season, and better than most episodes in season 5-7.
    ken halerkcrawf
  • AdmountAdmount Denton, Texas
    edited May 13
    It's such a weird feeling to really enjoy this episode and then see the Internet, and several different pods I usually enjoy, think that it's the worst episode of Game of Thrones.

    I really agreed with Aron's point last week that it can be a bummer on either side of a fandom when you feel like nobody else agrees with you. It's not like I think anyone should be changing their opinion or anything, but I just wish we could talk about these things differently. Or maybe relate to fandom differently. 

    I don't know what the solution is, but it just feels like I'm showing up to talk about whether Darth Vader or Obi Wan is cooler and instead everyone just wants to talk about how much Star Wars sucks. Maybe the solution is to just have my own opinions and not care about other people's opinions but that just feels lonely too.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    BenHatorianb.larevMichaelGvisi0ngjames80liquidmeliDaveyMac
  • tpelzytpelzy Dallas
    YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BUMMED OUT BY DANY. 

    That doesnt mean that it's not a well earned character turn that has been established for multiple seasons.
    Say what you want about D&D but they have been laying the groundwork for this since season 1.
    Graffin_Dirtybloodb.larevgjames80rkcrawf
  • Dany has been the big bad all this time, fucking crazy, I love it
    tpelzygjames80
  • tpelzytpelzy Dallas
    I have literally seen this coming from season 2. Way before I read any of the books. They have been foreshadowing this and building an arc. It's just so funny to see the negativity because I thoroughly enjoyed this. Apparently Jim is having a tantrum on instant take. I don't get this fandom lol.  
    Graffin_DirtybloodFalcongjames80
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Admount said:
    It's such a weird feeling to really enjoy this episode and then see the Internet, and several different pods I usually enjoy, think that it's the worst episode of Game of Thrones.

    I really agreed with Aron's point last week that it can be a bummer on either side of a fandom when you feel like nobody else agrees with you. It's not like I think anyone should be changing their opinion or anything, but I just wish we could talk about these things differently. Or maybe relate to fandom differently. 

    I don't know what the solution is, but it just feels like I'm showing up to talk about whether Darth Vader or Obi Wan is cooler and instead everyone just wants to talk about how much Star Wars sucks. Maybe the solution is to just have my own opinions and not care about other people's opinions but that just feels lonely too.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I dont think that they are a good barometer for what the general fanbase/viewership is thinking.

    I dont at all feel alone in my enjoyment of this episode. On social media (not reddit) I'm seeing far more people enjoying this episode than people who didn't. 

    Even in this forum where you would normally see more naysayers because we are much closer to the material than your average viewer, it seems like there are more people expressing varying degrees of enjoyment than negativity.
    Benchriskmajjam0770AdmountGraffin_DirtybloodFalconawookiee
  • I just dont get how ppl are ok with how flat the arc has been.  6 ep wasnt enough and it shows. Euron shows up to basically do nothing. Golden company same. All the sudden dragon fire just becomes nuke fire that crushes and explodes? But the night king can absorb it and dies to arya.. which was ok and all. But hes a little op then and dies easily.

    Somehow danny can fly directly into fire of arrows and is much better than last time by like overnight becoming ace pilot. Its really not her fault.. its just shallow. Aryas whole plot this ep waste just a plain waste.

    The death of cercei and jaime i guess is ok... but again just short and shallow. 

    I get its expensive to film, but its not like ppl wouldnt have watched 13ep.

    Maybe the DDs just wanted to get it over with..

    They found out GRRM really atarted cutting corners and the plot just falls off a cliff. And they said f it we just gotta gtfo.

    This whole season. Just flat af. Filmed well. Looks great. Some great moments. But thats not gonna cover the zero arc story.

    Wtf the bran has nething at all to do in this series...idk. unless they fucking pull some insane time warp bran made danny do it. He basically has one moment with hodor and thats it. 

    I liked it from a stand alone each ep is a story point. The eps just dont have much building or  ombined value this season. And this being the final season makes the entire series just super flat plot wise.
    The critiques in your first paragraph are difficult to respond to.

    The dragon fire has always been that way. It's a concussive force. The Night King didnt die because he is, apparently, immune to fire but is weak to dragon glass piercing through the dragonglass shard in his heart that originally created him. Nothing in this episode contradicts that.

    Euron killed a dragon and captured Danys right-hand woman in the last episode. Specifically in this episode, Euron did "nothing" except ensure that Jaime would die by giving him mortal wounds. 

    The Golden Company didnt have a chance to do anything because they were blown to pieces. Sometimes the less "badass" thing happens, such as a great sell sword army being cut down by a dragon before the battle begins. What were your expectations for them? Many people predicted that they wouldnt do anything this episode.

    The D&D wanting to get out quick thing just rings as illogical. You dont take nearly 2 years to write and produce 6 episodes of TV if you are just trying to slap something together to get out as quick as possible. That just doesnt make any logical sense.

    THEY SPENT MORE TIME ON SIX EPISODES THAN THEY WOUKD HAVE ON A REGULAR FULL SEASON OR 1.5 SEASONS.
    In short. Its just too much in too little time.

    And who knows why theres only 6 ep to be fair, but it was waaaaaay too little.

    And if its not slapped together then idk what it is.. its great scenery in a one by one ep basis. Lots of good to go around.

    But the plot connections are literally one liners.

    Euron shows up to kill a dragon and to take a captive. 

    He some how decimates a dragon last ep. But this go around has no luck at all. And just magically washes ashore within seconds of jaimes window. /euron

    Its all fine it just has no legs.

    The golden company idk its ok.  They could have spent some time at all tonestablish who they are, how formidable or not even a foe they are. Something. Instead you get just zero. A name. / golden co.

    There is absolutely no reason it had to be jam packed into 6 ep. 

    This season is essentially 2-3ep thus far trying to pay off 7 season of build up and theory and plot and backstories and just commitment. For them to hand you a microwaved plot.


    The work is there. The art is there. The story is mia. 
    visi0n
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Watched it twice. I liked it.

    CLE FRIGGIN GANE BOWL! Holy shit. It was everything I could have ever wanted. Dragon flying overhead as the Keep is being destroyed while these two beasts battle it out was an amazing visual. It ended the only way it could have: Sandor pushing his brother into the fire and taking himself out in the process. And Cersei's awkward walk past Sandor was beautiful.

    Jaime and Cersei being crushed by the Red Keep falling around them while they share one last embrace is not what you want out of Jaime but he was living his truth. He couldn't actually love anyone else but her. He told us that many, many times. Yeah, the book reader in me wanted him to choke the shit out of her but they specifically never mentioned the whole Valonqar aspect of the prophecy so I think given what they've shown over the years, this is fitting. Let the terrible people die with each other. Who cares.

    Definitely didn't expect Euron and Jaime. Ultimately it doesn't matter much because Jaime still died how he wanted and Euron got to die knowing he helped kill The Kingslayer. Ehh, I would have loved to see him burn on his ship for sure though.

    Arya. The horse bit was slightly odd. I actually loved Sandor finally getting through to her that this revenge shit isn't worth it. At least not at that moment. Now, wouldn't be surprised if she just wants to assassinate Dany next week but she would not have survived any kind of encounter with The Mountain. I seriously doubt if she followed him, she would have walked away and left him to fight alone.

    Tyrion, man, I guess the symmetry of him releasing Jaime from captivity is nice and the scene was absolutely touching but I just feel like he sealed his fate with that move. Dany is going to roast his ass next week. I really really hope not, obviously. I will say that Jaime being caught and chained up is a bit dubious but I guess everyone would know the great Jaime Lannister was staying behind and it would look bad but still, he did just fight with them a week or tow ago.

    Okay, and now Dany. Jesus. I was simultaneously relieved and very very surprised the Iron Fleet and the Scorpions on the wall were no match for her and her good good fire boi. Her using the sun to throw them off was great and she was also very smart with her movements. Keep moving fast and you're damn near impossible to hit. As I'm sure most people thought, the instant she heard the bells and took off flying, I thought she was going to blast a path straight to the Red Keep and then either do some selective blasting or maybe even take the whole thing down if it came to that. I certainly did not expect her to burn the entire city down. I think she feared this was her only move. She can't have the Jon Snow thing weighing her rule down. She is seeing her trusted advisors betraying her and with Tyrion I think she still suspects he's still a tiny bit loyal to his family. Spoiler alert, she was kind of right about that one.
    All the Chickensmajjam0770Graffin_DirtybloodgguenotMichaelGFlukesRoseFreddyrkcrawf
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I don’t get the guys’ complaint about the wildfire. 

    It wasnt overly clever. It was unexpected and cool but also logical that there are stores not yet uncovered. A nice detail, and not at all showy imo. 
    majjam0770Graffin_Dirtybloodb.larevDemerolrkcrawf
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    chrisk said:
    I don’t get the guys’ complaint about the wildfire. 

    It wasnt overly clever. It was unexpected and cool but also logical that there are stores not yet uncovered. A nice detail, and not at all showy imo. 
    Oh my lord, they are even complaining about the small caches of wildfire exploding around the city? 

    That 100% made sense and was wisely not a focal point of the episode. I really enjoyed that detail.
    majjam0770Graffin_DirtybloodFalconvisi0nawookieeDemerolrkcrawf
  • tpelzy said:
    I have literally seen this coming from season 2. Way before I read any of the books. They have been foreshadowing this and building an arc. It's just so funny to see the negativity because I thoroughly enjoyed this. Apparently Jim is having a tantrum on instant take. I don't get this fandom lol.  
    So lemme get this straight. Not negatively or otherwise. Since S2 when danny is saving ppl and  putting and to slavery its been apparent to you that she is destined to slaughter man woman and child by the 100k as they literally submit and open the door to let you in?

    Laying down weapons and all. Since S2?
    Unless for some reason you put a massive stock in her brother.. i just dont see it


    rustywright4MFGAnominal
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    edited May 13
    Soooooo... Arya’s dead, right?  Like none of that bit at the end with her finding the horse and riding away actually happened...?

    Cause if not, it sure as shit felt that way (to me, at least).

    Edit: I’m currently listening to the Instant Cast and absolutely loving it (and I genuinely enjoyed this episode).  

    Clearly some of y’all never watched The Walking Dead and listened to Watching Dead... there’s nothing like a good BM hate cast!
    Murderbeardarwinfeeshymajjam0770ken haleBloodyTacoweeniegirlMichaelGrustywright4MFGAnominal
  • edited May 13
    Soooooo... Arya’s dead, right?  Like none of that bit at the end with her finding the horse and riding away actually happened...?

    Cause if not, it sure as shit felt that way (to me, at least).
    My head-canon is that this entire episode was a dream. The next episode will start with Jon startling awake from this bad dream.
    majjam0770
  • chrisk said:
    I don’t get the guys’ complaint about the wildfire. 

    It wasnt overly clever. It was unexpected and cool but also logical that there are stores not yet uncovered. A nice detail, and not at all showy imo. 
    Oh my lord, they are even complaining about the small caches of wildfire exploding around the city? 

    That 100% made sense and was wisely not a focal point of the episode. I really enjoyed that detail.
    I second this. I thought this tracked 100% and was actually one of the plot consistences and follow throughs that i liked.
    BenGraffin_Dirtyblood
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    The only way that they could have made it better if if Dany had attacked the Iron Fleet and walls during the night before.

    Seeing Drogon using his black coloring to do a night raid dropping out of the black sky would have been awesome. And there would have been enough light from the city, toches and dragon fire to light the episode well enough that I dont have to suffer through complaints about the episode lighting.

    Anyways, I dont want to rewrite an episode for them because I get how not knowing what was going to happen on the day of the battle added more tension. And of course, if Dany did that, then she could have easily finished off the Golden Company that night and taken the city. So it adds a problem with the whole plot.
    majjam0770MichaelGvisi0n
  • edited May 13
    A.Ron and Dave Chen both had that exasperated, rubbing their head, glasses-adjustment type frustration after the episode.
    majjam0770
  • chrisk said:
    I don’t get the guys’ complaint about the wildfire. 

    It wasnt overly clever. It was unexpected and cool but also logical that there are stores not yet uncovered. A nice detail, and not at all showy imo. 
    I think it's just that they're throwing you the shittiest of bones at Cersei's intentions. It'll at best get no lip service and at worst be a talking point why Dany's genocide wasn't so bad.
  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego
    The only way that they could have made it better if if Dany had attacked the Iron Fleet and walls during the night before.

    Seeing Drogon using his black coloring to do a night raid dropping out of the black sky would have been awesome. And there would have been enough light from the city, toches and dragon fire to light the episode well enough that I dont have to suffer through complaints about the episode lighting.

    Anyways, I dont want to rewrite an episode for them because I get how not knowing what was going to happen on the day of the battle added more tension. And of course, if Dany did that, then she could have easily finished off the Golden Company that night and taken the city. So it adds a problem with the whole plot.

    That hadn't occured to me till you said it but why the hell didn't she just attack at night, visibility would be horrid.
    ken haleSchlupp
  • tpelzytpelzy Dallas
     Fullauto2009 said:
    tpelzy said:
    I have literally seen this coming from season 2. Way before I read any of the books. They have been foreshadowing this and building an arc. It's just so funny to see the negativity because I thoroughly enjoyed this. Apparently Jim is having a tantrum on instant take. I don't get this fandom lol.  
    So lemme get this straight. Not negatively or otherwise. Since S2 when danny is saving ppl and  putting and to slavery its been apparent to you that she is destined to slaughter man woman and child by the 100k as they literally submit and open the door to let you in?

    Laying down weapons and all. Since S2?
    Unless for some reason you put a massive stock in her brother.. i just dont see it


    I wasn't 100% on it in season 2, but there is foreshadowing, 
  • Soooooo... Arya’s dead, right?  Like none of that bit at the end with her finding the horse and riding away actually happened...?

    Cause if not, it sure as shit felt that way (to me, at least).
    My head-canon is that this entire episode was a dream. The next episode will start with Jon startling awake from this bad dream.
    This while interesting would require major time to pull off and it would undo entirely too much, but im sure this was in jest.

    Im hoping for a bran turn etc. For brans the night king, made danny do it night wins kinda loop something.

    But tbh the story is just splayed full out. Theres nothing there. I mean theres stuff there, the night king dies and some one gets the throne. Or no one or w.e happens

    But its all just flat with flat payoff and wrap up time  at this point i sadly am afraid to say...
  • Soooooo... Arya’s dead, right?  Like none of that bit at the end with her finding the horse and riding away actually happened...?

    Cause if not, it sure as shit felt that way (to me, at least).
    Based on this and the Battle of Winterfell, Miguel Sopochnik definitely got the message that "no one's ever really gone."
    DoubleA_Ron
  • Tyrion had asked Davos if he could smuggle something.  Was that meant to be Jamie or did I miss the follow-up to that line of dialog?  If the former, anyone want to take bets on whether Davos dies by fire or getting his head bit off? 
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