805 - The Bells

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Comments

  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Reading comments sections on the episode, most comment say they liked it or it was "incredible," and then you get a couple comments saying that it was so bad it ruined the series for them and they wont be able to rewatch earlier seasons.

    Hahah, psychiatrists would have a field day on this fanbase.
    awookiee
  • CindyCindy Seattle
    What if Dany went all scorched-earth on King’s Landing to kill Jon to ensure the Iron Throne for herself?

    Mad Queen = Westeros didn’t adore her + father figure and best friend killed + first time being rejected by man she loved + 2 of her dragons killed. Fuck anyone who stood between her and the Iron Throne. 

    Arya is a bad ass assassin but was never trained to deal with full-on battlefield conditions. 


  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Soooooo... Arya’s dead, right?  Like none of that bit at the end with her finding the horse and riding away actually happened...?

    Cause if not, it sure as shit felt that way (to me, at least).
    Based on this and the Battle of Winterfell, Miguel Sopochnik definitely got the message that "no one's ever really gone."

    Ha! I said that out loud everytime someone's death was uncertain. Fucking movie isn't even out yet. 
    mjmullady
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited May 2019
    Conspiracy theorist Hatorian calls bullshit on Drogon destroying the red keep like that. Dragon fire burns at 650 degrees Fahrenheit. Stone has a melting temperature of over 2000 degrees. If you look closely you can see puffs of smoke spouting from the keep before Drogon even blasts it. Also it’s been said Lannister soldiers heard explosions 30 seconds before Drogon’s Attack. Something seems fishy. Not to mention Red Keep 7 wasn’t even attacked and was still destroyed...
    majjam0770MurderbearMFGBrandonTheBard
  • This is actually my first time posting on here, but I have been a member for a few years now. This year I got four friends to listen to the pod because of how much I liked it. Unfortunately they texted me saying that had to turn it off because of how negative it was.

    I loved this episode. I think it was really clear for quite a while that she was going to go crazy. She looked insane with her makeup during the scene with Tyrion. But I loved the comparison of her flying towards the iron fleet in this episode and last. She stopped giving a shit and was going balls to the walls, not giving a shit if her or Drogon were hit. Her only reason to trust the Bells was Tyrion, who realistically plotted behind her back to save her siblings. So she really had no reason to trust them.

    I know people hated it but I loved the Jaimie arc. This is a show that really was about truth and tragedy. And I like to think of Jaimie as having an addiction to cersei. And similar to real life, people with addictions put aside their happiness and personal growth with relapses. Thats the tragic part of his story arc. He had one person who saw the good in him and was there the reinforce that, but sometimes addiction is too hard to overcome.
    BenMurderbearFeezite
  • I’m going to put myself through this episode one more time for the sake of finding more to like in it. 

    I honestly have no idea why Jamie was a prisoner. He was already on the good side so why capture him at all? Was it just lack of trust or to push Tyrion to the final treason?  

    Cersei was such a great character but this season she’s had about 10 lines? I mean Lena acts the shit out of her emotions and it’s great, but I just feel everyone has become shadows of their former characters. So much so that you can’t even care about them.  When the building fell on The two of them I just shrugged. Sigh.

    I guess the last episode will be our final hopes being dashed. At this point I almost expect Dany to live so they can just screw the fans one more time  
    rustywright4ken hale
  • Wow may just listen to another cast for this show. They are gonna be a super bummer and downer to listen to from here on out
    I'm not going to listen to the instacast until tomorrow AM, but I have had to do that with a couple of podcasts so far this past week. Probably not with BM though unless they are both just annoyingly negative and nitpicking easily explainable things and pretending that these characters havent earned the things they did in this episode just because they dont personally like what they did. That's when I tune out. I couldn't even begin to listen to Storm Of Spoilers this week.
    Joanna (everyone on the show tells me everything always) Robertson has become UNBEARABLE to listen to.
    Gondwanalandiahisdudeness915
  • That episode must have cost about $100 gabillion.

    No Problems:
    Sandor saving Arya
    Mad Queen going 100 
    Special effects - production values
    Dragon as nuclear bomb
    Sandor with the double somersault with a tuck - plus - into the fire degree of difficulty

    Problems:
    The unsullied and the northern soldiers going all Nanking
    Euron Greyjoy had not earned the right to bloody Jamie

      
    ken hale
  • kuman07kuman07 Kansas City

    Look. I think we can all agree that both sides tried very hard, ok?

    budesignsken haledarthcaedus1138CeciliaM
  • Anyone else thought the guys were a little over the top in their criticism in the instant talk? 
    Flukesjbpitt13podcartfanNaugustineAaronrkcrawf
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited May 2019
    chrisk said:
    I don’t get the guys’ complaint about the wildfire. 

    It wasnt overly clever. It was unexpected and cool but also logical that there are stores not yet uncovered. A nice detail, and not at all showy imo. 
    I think it's just that they're throwing you the shittiest of bones at Cersei's intentions. It'll at best get no lip service and at worst be a talking point why Dany's genocide wasn't so bad.
    I don't think it was intended that way at all. Just a cool momentary visual and acknowledgement that there's still a few caches of wildfire around. I think they thought they used it all up. My assumption is those are old laboratories, or stolen caches. 

    It's what would happen when you happen to hit the oil refinery or any factory with hazardous chemicals.
    Murderbear
  • walktheskywalkthesky New York
     I’m sorry. But I am listening to the Insta cast now. I don’t see how they haven’t seen the show runners building and building and building Danny into a possible mad queen. I know the guys have said before that there’s been so much evidence so much tracking. Why does she need yet another nudge. We all knew this was going to be a very divisive end for fan-dum.   It’s a bummer the guys are disappointed this bad because I was really looking forward to the podcast at the end of the season. 
  • tom_g said:
    That episode must have cost about $100 gabillion.

    No Problems:
    Sandor saving Arya
    Mad Queen going 100 
    Special effects - production values
    Dragon as nuclear bomb
    Sandor with the double somersault with a tuck - plus - into the fire degree of difficulty

    Problems:
    The unsullied and the northern soldiers going all Nanking
    Euron Greyjoy had not earned the right to bloody Jamie

      
    Loved this episode but yes i hare Eurons part, i see what they tried but it was yuk
    Underwood
  • LordBy said:
    I’m okay with the Danny stuff; not thrilled, but I think it was earned.

    Clegane bowl? Decent.

    Grey Worm? Okay.

    Varys stuff? Okay.

    Tyrion stuff? Okay for the most part, but not entirely.

    Qyburn? Not okay.

    Arya stuff? Not okay at all. Oh so the hound said I was going to die so I bail? I think not. Looks like she’s going to kill Danny too, and that would be too much.

    Jon stuff? Maybe okay depending on next episode. If he doesn’t kill Danny, then it’s a fail.

    Cersi and Jamie stuff? Not really okay.

    Dothraki stuff? There should not be any surviving Dothraki, I watched episode 3, they’re all dead.

    Davos? Did Tyrion really just ask Davos to leave a boat and that’s it?

    So next episode the only people on Danny’s side will be the Unsullied and the Dothraki. The foreign invaders. Not great guys. Crazy women and immigrants need to be defeated by men of honor and the patriotic natives? Really not great.

    These are the same guys who wanted to make a TV series about the south winning the civil war. <span>:lol:</span>
    ken haleLordBy
  • OliviaDOliviaD Cincinnati, Ohio
    edited May 2019
    Disappointed a building is what killed Cersei and not any character. 
    Enjoyed dany losing her mind and leveling King’s landing. 
    also enjoyed the fan service of the CLEGANEBOWL 

    A personal positive outcome from this episode: I created my first meme  
    https://imgur.com/gallery/460BqeE
    hisdudeness915FlukesjohnnytruanttelephoneofmadnessOldGriswoldUnderwooddarthcaedus1138ken hale
  • I am starting to change my view on the whole " Jaime was a redeemed person " guess Jaime was who he always been , there's honor in him , he saved the city , but he was still fucking his sister after he saved kingslanding and he still shoved a kid out of a window after he saved kingslanding. As recently as two seasons ago he threatened to murder the entire riverlands just to get back to Cersei and he stuck with her after she blew the Sept . So he never really moved to the good side . I am ok with him going back to Cersei 
    hisdudeness915rkcrawf
  • mft9186 said:
    Anyone else thought the guys were a little over the top in their criticism in the instant talk? 

    I love the honesty & passion... What you want really from an independent podcast.

    Seems to be similar to most of the review shows popping up on my YT feed this mornings from those deeply invested in the world, history & lore. 
    rustywright4ken hale
  • This episode left me extremely disappointed. It's not because Jamie loved Cersei or Dany turned into the mad queen. It's the way the show depicted the characters getting to those points, not the end result. Most of the results didn't feel earned.

    The DDs shot themselves in the foot by trying to cram this all into a six episode season. I can't feel anything but angry that they wanted to show to be over so bad. 
    CapeGabe
  • hisdudeness915hisdudeness915 Atlanta, Ga
    Dany has always had an issue with impulse control.I see a lot of people saying, “why would she burn the city? She already won.” Earlier in this same episode she told Jon that she had experienced no love at all since she arrived in Westeros and then basically gets friend zoned by one of the few people who does love her. So she literally said, “Fear,then” and “mercy will not be our weakness anymore.” All that said, in her victory moment staring at the red keep and hearing the bells ringing for “mercy” she’s probably re-playing all the shit she’s been through since arriving in Westeros. All the times she chose “mercy” and lost her own people. And in this moment she must decide again between mercy or fear and obviously she decides fear. She has always been entitled and in her mind probably already sees anyone who stayed loyal to Cersei by even staying in King’s Landing, an enemy. And what does she doe to enemies? Dracarys
    MurderbearFlukespodcartfanwalktheskygguenotavcplDeeCeciliaMDaveyMac
  • walktheskywalkthesky New York
    mft9186 said:
    I am starting to change my view on the whole " Jaime was a redeemed person " guess Jaime was who he always been , there's honor in him , he saved the city , but he was still fucking his sister after he saved kingslanding and he still shoved a kid out of a window after he saved kingslanding. As recently as two seasons ago he threatened to murder the entire riverlands just to get back to Cersei and he stuck with her after she blew the Sept . So he never really moved to the good side . I am ok with him going back to Cersei 
    I was shocked and after thinking about it, this direction does make the most sense.
  • walktheskywalkthesky New York
    Is this really about fans not getting what they were expecting ?  Are some of them literally offended because they guessed wrong? I could give a shit.  I theorized myself, but I never married to a particular plot notion because in the end, you will be disappointed. 
    awookieeCeciliaM
  • Also im not here to be a negative piler.

    Actually i was hoping to find something to help me be ok with this ep, and by extension this season.

    Like did we get enough? From ep1 till now do ppl really feel like some of the major arcs came 100% to completion?

    Isnt this show and thus this fandom about every detail and thread and im wondering is there something i missed?

    Danny is easily the most complete line atm. 
    But i feel like we went from 2000 thread cpunt stories to 300 thread count used hotel linens real fast.


    Ill take one of the largly solid parts of this ep.
    Clegain bowl. Pretty good. 

    Lets try a comparrison.. the fight with oberyn and the mountain... better or worse than the clegain bowl?

    Imo oberyn v mountain was alot better and it shouldnt have been.

    This fight, was it ep 804 worthy? Really? Second to last ep worthy?  Even if it was, how does the rest of the plot compare?

    Is it ok that the hound v the mountain ends up being the most complete plot line of the series?

    I was disappointed in the fight. I think it deserved a few dedicated minutes like all of the other major fights. Instead it got split cut with other scenes. I'm sure that makes it easier to film, but it's honestly the cheaper and easier way out. Oberyn vs the Mountain was done much better. 
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I think this from Sepinwall is pretty fair.

    Dany’s descent into genocidal madness didn’t exactly come out of nowhere. Throughout her travels across Essos, her preferred solution to problems was to burn them and all the people associated with them. She’s impetuous, narcissistic and one of the last members of a bloodline with a history of doing things exactly like what she did to King’s Landing. But the manner in which it played out this season felt sloppy in the way these last few seasons have often been. It’s not just about characters like Euron and Bronn and Jaime surviving point-blank dragon-fire attacks, or Varys (RIP) being able to teleport across continents. It’s that Benioff and Weiss have been a lot less diligent at getting the characters — and the Mother of Dragons in particular — to the planned endpoint. They’ve told us where this is going, but they haven’t really shown the work necessary to bring her from “erratic but ultimately well-meaning” to “will roast thousands of innocent civilians alive just because she feels like it.” A version where she ignored the bells and flew Drogon straight through Cersei’s balcony would have felt of a piece with where the story had taken us to this point. What she did instead required at least another half of a regular-length GoT season to feel earned. But the showrunners needed their queen to get mad in a hurry, and so she did.


    I think the show would really have benefitted from a full writers room. I think the problem is D&D thinking to themselves they have a problem, and they work out between themselves how they solve it and to them it seems good. I don't think they don't care or are patting themselves on the back or whatever. That's too much armchair psychiatry to me. I think they knew this was the end they (or GRRM) wanted and tried to lay down the pieces to get us there, but they just didn't do it. I think you need other writers being there to say "hey, we haven't earned this. Can we do something to crystallize it more?"

    The good thing about book POV characters is you can see what they're thinking and how they get from A to B. From D&D's perspective they've been dropping breadcrumbs the whole time but they've also had to make her an engaging character that inspires the loyalty of someone like Jon. The problem is without the internal dialogue they need a clean break that has some time to gestate, but also without Jon and Tyrion knowing what's going to happen when they join her. It's a genuinely difficult problem. Someone suggested she attack the Red Keep and accidentally kill thousands, but the point they're going for is that she intends to do it.

    The fact that Dany thinks she's owed this job and that she has this massive weapon are both huge problems I think they were trying to address. There's a reason you don't want those kinds of people and those kinds of weapons. I think they just didn't understand how it was going to feel to most viewers.

    GiovanniMurderbearken haleDaveyMacrkcrawf
  • David Benioff: "Arya crawled under a dumpster."
    ken haleGiovannibudesignsRebels555CeciliaM
  • I loved the episode. I agree the Euron bit was a bit too tidy, but they had to end him somehow and he did get blown off the ship. As for Jaime and Cersei, don't ever buy into a GRRM prophecy! Particularly in the books, it's how he subverts his stories - he makes 75% of the prophecy come true only to hoodwink you at the end. Rather, Jaime did what he always wanted - die with Cersei in his arms. Fitting.
    Dany did exactly what I thought she would do - destroy King's Landing. It is basically her Harrenhall. For her whole life she was told that the people of Westeros would love her, they would rally to her, and they would raise her banners when they saw her dragons. Instead, they showed nothing but distrust and anger. Even fighting the Army of the Dead did not give her any bonus points with those of Westeros (except improved reputation among the North). She spends her entire character arc looking for acceptance and reverence. When she feels betrayed or mocked, she responds with violence. Astapur, Vaes Dothrak, Mereen, the Tarleys. She is essentially alone (particularly after Jon rebukes her). Unlike Essos where abolishing slavery gets you immediate devotion from the people, Westeros doesn't have a simple solution. Most people don't care who is on the throne. So she does what Aegon did 300 years earlier -> She demands people bend the knee or she destroys them. Her real throne is now Dragonstone if she ever makes it out of the finale (unlikely IMO). Ironically, unlike Aegon, she has Dorne backing her.
    avcpl
  • As for predictions of the finale - 
    Bron kills Drogon
    Dany kills Jon
    Arya kills Dany
    Sansa sits the Iron Throne 
    Tyrion stays hand for Sansa
  • Here’s the thing. I am totally ok with Dany going scorched earth. I even loved Tyrion in this episode. His scene with Jamie was great!

    my main issue is just the choppiness of this episode and the seemingly lack of surprises overall. 

    I hate if the larger fan negativity is driving people from the show and the podcast.
  • Awesome episode
  • Is this really about fans not getting what they were expecting ?  Are some of them literally offended because they guessed wrong? I could give a shit.  I theorized myself, but I never married to a particular plot notion because in the end, you will be disappointed. 
    No. That’s not what’s happening here, that’s just what some viewers who have dug in to the “everything is fine” position keep saying to try and discredit all of the legitimate criticism. 
    mjmulladytelephoneofmadnessrustywright4
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    mjmullady said:

    I hate if the larger fan negativity is driving people from the show and the podcast.
    That's the thing. Most fans (not podcasters or writers) aren't being negative. The majority of average viewers I've seen enjoyed the episode.

    Yet I'm sure on the podcast Tuesday, after days of being in the most negative fan hole in the world (reddit), A.Ron will pronounce the people who enjoyed the episode as being in the minority, which is not reality.
    hisdudeness915avcpl
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