Someone help me, I don’t understand the hate this season

someone help me, this season is getting a shit ton of hate and I simply don’t understand it. 

Confused fan over here. 
kojiattwoodBen

Comments

  • I don't understand either. It's lazy, dumb trash. No reason to get upset about it.
    telephoneofmadnesskojiattwoodken haleAnominal
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 13
    I've enjoyed it so far, but also understand some of the critiques.

    To me it seems like it's a snowball effect that has many layers. There are some legitimate gripes, and then from there it snowballs into thousands of people griping for tons of different personal issues they have with the story not going how they wanted or expected, and bad things happening with beloved characters. And this is the end so there is no time for healing the wrong.

    It's not like the Red Wedding where you can feel bad about it, but also know that there can still be justice and redemption to make you feel better and make it worth it. Whether anyone admits it or not, if the Red Wedding happens in the penultimate episode of season 8 and the series, then their rage and disappointment is much different in regards to that episode, no matter how well earned it is or how much sense it makes on rewatches.
    bazjensterTravisFlukesSanguinePenguinsizzlebarkizzle
  • I believe the saying is

    (clears throat)

     "HATERS GON HATE!"
    Traviscdrive
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited May 13
    In working this out in my head, I think it comes down to a couple of things. The first, I think @All the Chickens has it very right. Since there is no show after this season to redeem things or to bounce back upon every choice is being scrutinized to a higher degree. Also, once the fans start to get disappointed, everything becomes magnified because you're already frustrated. Combine that with the show rushing to their endpoints at an incredibly rapid speed, you're seeing fans who are accustomed to a very slow moving, meticulous show being asked to adjust. Look at last season with the downright outrage over simple "jet-packing." Now it feels like they are doing kind of character jet-packing as well and it's disorienting even to me, and I do like this season.

    I think what it really comes down to, at least what I see, is that it's a fundamentally different show now. I can't remember who said it, but it stuck with me: This is a show where they spent multiple episodes negotiating crossing a bridge in earlier seasons, and now it's a show that has a gigantic battle every other episode. It was plodding and slow and you always had a great feel for what the state of the world was and it all made sense, now you have a show where no matter how many Dothraki died at the battle for Winterfell, no matter how high the bodies of notherners and Unsullied were stacked it was only about half of the force. These are the stark examples, no pun intended, but it's a full mindset really. I think a whole lot of people who love the show are turned off a great deal by a philosophical change. 

    I'm still enjoying it a lot, but I do understand where people who are really bummed are coming from.
    Rebels555alexander.klassenz74alBloodyTaco
  • Hater here since last season.

    One of the biggest misconceptions, that was restated above, is people are upset because the series is not going how they wanted. For most people I would say this is untrue.

    It is very simple. There was a great book series that people loved. It was adapted faithfully and well. Most of the changes were good, like Brianne - Hound.

    Then GRRM screwed everyone by falling severely behind forcing The Double D's to write fan fiction to reach his "bullet points". Like most fan fiction it was crap.

    The biggest mistake they made was writing episodes themselves instead of hiring some top talent writers.

    Game of Thrones was always a journey and they cut out as much journey as they could to hit the bullet points. The character development was shallow and the rules shifted depending on plot. This week we have heat seeking super bolts for the Scorpions, next week we Nerf the hell out of them so a city full can't hit anything. Tyrion is the smartest man in the kingdom until  he is a stupid dolt because it is needed.

    I'd say most of the so called "haters" aren't the trolls you want them to be but fans of a well written product that are very disappointed that a once shining light in the drek that is most TV was lowered to that drek's level.
    Traviskojiattwoodbbordken haleJTKIIImajjam0770alexander.klassenSchluppGiovanniGredalBeeand 1 other.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Well, there’s an episode thread with 13 pages of people explaining their issues in great detail. 
    Travishisdudeness915ken halemajjam0770CeciliaMbudesignsGiovanniBloodyTaco
  • Dee said:
    Well, there’s an episode thread with 13 pages of people explaining their issues in great detail. 
    Yea, but then I have to read a bunch
    hisdudeness915FlukesCeciliaMSanguinePenguin
  • CapeGabe said:
    Hater here since last season.

    One of the biggest misconceptions, that was restated above, is people are upset because the series is not going how they wanted. For most people I would say this is untrue.

    It is very simple. There was a great book series that people loved. It was adapted faithfully and well. Most of the changes were good, like Brianne - Hound.

    Then GRRM screwed everyone by falling severely behind forcing The Double D's to write fan fiction to reach his "bullet points". Like most fan fiction it was crap.

    The biggest mistake they made was writing episodes themselves instead of hiring some top talent writers.

    Game of Thrones was always a journey and they cut out as much journey as they could to hit the bullet points. The character development was shallow and the rules shifted depending on plot. This week we have heat seeking super bolts for the Scorpions, next week we Nerf the hell out of them so a city full can't hit anything. Tyrion is the smartest man in the kingdom until  he is a stupid dolt because it is needed.

    I'd say most of the so called "haters" aren't the trolls you want them to be but fans of a well written product that are very disappointed that a once shining light in the drek that is most TV was lowered to that drek's level.
    Pretty much nailed it here. The one thing I'd add, which is A. Ron's biggest complaint, is that the writers repeatedly put characters in situations where they should die, but then they don't die. For example, Arya gets stabbed brutally in the gut and then jumps in a dirty river. In this situation, she should die. But she doesn't. If they wanted her to not die, they shouldn't have put her in a situation where so clearly she should have died. It's just bad writing. Same thing with Brienne and Jamie getting swarmed in the battle of winterfell. They should have died, but they didn't and that's totally unrealistic. These are self-inflicted wounds by the writers...don't put characters in situations where they should die if they aren't actually going to die.  
    kojiattwoodGredalBeeBloodyTaco
  • (805 SPOILERS)

    I can give the perspective of one hater, namely myself. To me, the problems with the season are nothing new. Rushed or skipped character development, sloppy plotting, bafflingly weak executions of beats that could have been infinitely better had they been given a few minutes more thought - these are just exaggerations of flaws that were already present in season 7, and really going all the way back to when D&D first started to run out of book to adapt. I think season 8 is a mess of a season of television, but I don't think it's that much worse than season 7 or season 5 (although the reduced episode count certainly didn't help, and maybe a 10-episode run could've made some of this a bit cleaner).

    The biggest difference, and the reason why I think people are so annoyed, is because we're at the end now. There's nothing left after this, no light at the end of the tunnel, no last-minute turn around. It was easy in the past to justify stuff like the botched wight hunt from season 7 - I did plenty of it myself when those episodes were airing, saying stuff like "well, let's be fair to D&D, they didn't sign up to finish this series, and they're having to work with a complex story that even GRRM himself hasn't figured out how to bring together - if they have to take some shortcuts that don't make much sense, it'll be worth it as long as they get where they need to go." Problem is, now we're here, and it isn't worth it. There's no hidden depth to the White Walkers - they're just generic villains that anticlimactically drop dead when you kill their leader, like in a video game. There's no character depth in the battle for King's Landing - Dany just abruptly decides to burn the city even though she's already won, with no discernible motivation beyond "lol them crazy Targaryens", with a dash of "I'm sad because my nephew doesn't want to fuck me anymore". Every prophecy from the books that suggested compelling twists and turns at the end of the story was ignored entirely, in favour of the least interesting version of the ending, executed poorly. If these really are the broad strokes of what GRRM planned 30 years ago, then my excitement for the remaining two books has taken a big hit, although I think he'd sell this material a hell of a lot better by way of the internal character POVs and by way of just being a much better writer than Dan Weiss and David "themes are for eighth-grade book reports" Benioff.

    I don't think "The Bells" is the worst episode of Game of Thrones, as many are claiming. There was good stuff in there! It looked amazing, with Sapochnik delivering the kind of quality he should have delivered with "The Long Night". The stuff with Arya in the streets was solid. Cleganebowl was the dumbest thing in the world, but I wouldn't have had it any other way. Everyone acted the hell out of what they were given. The problem is, this episode (and this season in general) marks the point where we can no longer tell ourselves there's something better or more interesting coming, that all of this messiness is leading to something worthwhile - and it makes the last four seasons seem worse in retrospect, because we can see that there's nothing behind the curtain, and there never was.
    bbordJTKIIIkojiattwoodSchluppGredalBee
  • CapeGabe said:
    Hater here since last season.

    One of the biggest misconceptions, that was restated above, is people are upset because the series is not going how they wanted. For most people I would say this is untrue.

    It is very simple. There was a great book series that people loved. It was adapted faithfully and well. Most of the changes were good, like Brianne - Hound.

    Then GRRM screwed everyone by falling severely behind forcing The Double D's to write fan fiction to reach his "bullet points". Like most fan fiction it was crap.

    The biggest mistake they made was writing episodes themselves instead of hiring some top talent writers.

    Game of Thrones was always a journey and they cut out as much journey as they could to hit the bullet points. The character development was shallow and the rules shifted depending on plot. This week we have heat seeking super bolts for the Scorpions, next week we Nerf the hell out of them so a city full can't hit anything. Tyrion is the smartest man in the kingdom until  he is a stupid dolt because it is needed.

    I'd say most of the so called "haters" aren't the trolls you want them to be but fans of a well written product that are very disappointed that a once shining light in the drek that is most TV was lowered to that drek's level.
    Thank you for this. Couldn’t have said it any better myself. 
    ken halebbord
  • edited May 13
    The quality of the storytelling has declined really significantly since the source material ran out, and frankly the show is fucking sloppy and pretty dumb now, more often than not.  I think the level of "hate" is appropriate to the hype and the investment of time.

    ETA: yes, CapeGabe said it much better :)

    Giovanni
  • https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/that-was-one-of-the-best-game-of-thrones-episodes-ever-if-you-disagree-youre-wrong

    This article sums up a lot of what I feel

    i thought last nights episode was great.

    battle of winter fell definitely was disappointing.
  • ken hale said:
    The quality of the storytelling has declined really significantly since the source material ran out, and frankly the show is fucking sloppy and pretty dumb now, more often than not.  I think the level of "hate" is appropriate to the hype and the investment of time.

    ETA: yes, CapeGabe said it much better :)
    You hit it on the head when you said the level of hate is appropriate for the hype and investment of time we’ve put into this show. This show has been around for 8 years and I’ve been with it since the beginning. So yeah, I’m going to bummed as hell if it’s limping to the finish line. It also pisses me off that it’s obvious the Double D’s are trying to get it over as quickly as possible and wipe their hands clean of the series.
    ken hale
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    Given the mental gymnastics people were willing to perform in order to justify time travel in a superhero movie, it is a tad puzzling that it’s seemingly so difficult to just enjoy a big dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons.
    BenSanguinePenguin
  • AnominalAnominal San Francisco Bay Area
    edited May 14
    Given the mental gymnastics people were willing to perform in order to justify time travel in a superhero movie, it is a tad puzzling that it’s seemingly so difficult to just enjoy a big dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons.
    That's basically some of the answer right there. It's now a dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons. It used to be more that.

    I can appreciate McDonald's. I can appreciate perfectly cooked prime rib. But if I got to a place and order the prime rib, and while I'm chewing it changes into a Big Mac, that Big Mac is now garbage, whereas if I actually went to McDonald's I could love that Big Mac and think it was a great meal.
    ken hale
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    Anominal said:
    Given the mental gymnastics people were willing to perform in order to justify time travel in a superhero movie, it is a tad puzzling that it’s seemingly so difficult to just enjoy a big dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons.
    That's basically some of the answer right there. It's now a dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons. It's used to be more that.

    I can appreciate McDonald's. I can appreciate perfectly cooked prime rib. But if I got to a place and order the prime rib, and while I'm chewing it changes into a Big Mac, that Big Mac is now garbage, whereas if I actually went to McDonald's I could love that Big Mac and think it was a great meal.
    Welp, I guess I’m just a fast food kinda guy, then.
  • Hell, I'm a vegetarian so that whole analogy is lost on me :) but I agree that it didn't used to just be "big dumb visual spectacle."  It sucks if that's all it is now.
    kojiattwoodDoubleA_RonGiovanni
  • Perhaps people have their expectations set too high.  I think this season has been worth the wait by and large.  Last night's episode was one of the my favorite episodes ever, absolutely loved it.
    All the Chickensgguenot
  • I think the show has been on so long people's speculation turn to fan fiction.  DnD were begged to do another season and then the same people say they are horrible writers, off book.  The truth is this end is GRRM end.   How long can the audience be teased.  Somewhat good people can do very horrific things in war.  .I think this is the point someone were invested in can do very bad things is a war.   This is the truth about war.  
    SanguinePenguinsizzlebarkizzle
  • It was always a possibility that were going to do:

    -Dresden

    -Hiroshima

    -Bombing of Cambodia and Laos, Vietnam War. 

    SanguinePenguin
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    Given the mental gymnastics people were willing to perform in order to justify time travel in a superhero movie, it is a tad puzzling that it’s seemingly so difficult to just enjoy a big dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons.
    That's pretty much the exact reason. The show never would have been as popular as it was if it was just a big dumb visual spectacle involving tits and dragons. Everyone who was hooked by the show when it was so much more than that is disappointed now.

    Hopefully, they go the big dumb visual spectacle with tits and dragons for their Star Wars trilogy. I could get behind that.
  • I think saying the somewhat good and likable people do horrific things in war, is what I think the point is.   I do not think this stoory was ever about good vs evil.   I think it is about a person doing good and bad things.
    majjam0770
  • edited May 14
    Also, I don't think this was about character and redemption arcs.  I think it was that anyone can die at any moment.  It was about war and peace.    It is hard to make peace when that head of kingdom just threw your kid out a window.   Peace is hard because it is personal, war though is catastrophic.  
    ken haleSanguinePenguin
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    Read the DD’s are going to shut off social media and hide with many bottles of wine after the last episode. Seems like they understand they did a shitty job. 
    GredalBeeCrane
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