X-Men: Dark Phoenix - early reviews

edited June 5 in Movies
This movie is getting absolutely savaged in the reviews! Just brutal. I usually wait for Jim and A.Ron's take on new releases, but it's looking like that may not be needed this time. I think this is going to be a 'wait until it's on HBO' type movie. Such a bummer, I was really looking forward to this one. 
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Comments

  • MrXMrX CO
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    blue_sleeve
  • MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE REBOOT  :(
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    Not surprised at all. The trailer did not inspire any confidence and it seemed that Sophie Turner/Jean was a black hole of emotion. 
  • MrXMrX CO
    gguenot said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE REBOOT  :(

    Nope, same core cast that was introduced in "First Class" in 2011.
    gguenot
  • edited June 5
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    Agreed, Apocalypse was absolutely awful, I'm going to see Dark Phoenix tonight per the usual for me.  I hate how much power the critics have in reference to ticket sales.  Rotten Tomatoes throws up a low number for a movie and lots of people that were interested enough to go see it change their mind just because of it.  Granted, quite often they are correct in a movie being bad but I still hate the way it works.  I am very curious to see what Disney/Marvel Studios does with the Xmen universe.  It'll probably be a few years before they get into it but I'm hopeful. 
  • gguenot said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE REBOOT  :(

    Nope.  This was still Fox's continuation of the series (which you might call a reboot - new cast, new timeline, etc).  Dark Phoenix takes Jean Gray to the next level after her powers were revealed in Apocalypse.  Apocalypse had an 18% on Rotten Tomatoes early on, but is currently 47% I believe.  Dark Phoenix is currently 21% with the early reviewers.  I usually go with the Audience Score, which for Apocalypse was 65% Fresh...not great, but not horrible.  I only just last night watched Apocalypse in prep for Dark Phoenix tomorrow.

    With Disney acquiring Fox, it's assumed Marvel will have control of the characters and be able to reboot again and do it right.  

    Re: waiting for HBO...if you are near an AMC, their A-List subscription of $20 per month to see 3 free movies per week is a damn good deal and makes seeing even mediocre movies not a bad experience financially (if you avoid the concessions rip off).
    awookieeblue_sleeve
  • redlancerredlancer Seattle
    MrX said:
    gguenot said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE REBOOT  :(

    Nope, same core cast that was introduced in "First Class" in 2011.

    Well, kinda, I think that was intended as more of a 'side-boot' if that's a thing?  But overall, yeah, they've turned the series into kind of a shambled mess :\

    Could definitely use some Marvel treatment. 
  • MrXMrX CO
    redlancer said:
    MrX said:
    gguenot said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE REBOOT  :(

    Nope, same core cast that was introduced in "First Class" in 2011.

    Well, kinda, I think that was intended as more of a 'side-boot' if that's a thing?  But overall, yeah, they've turned the series into kind of a shambled mess :\

    Could definitely use some Marvel treatment. 

    I thought @gguenot meant he thought this film was a reboot, but yea the films starting with First Class were a sideboot of sorts - new cast but still in the same continuity as the original films from the 00's (and they had the new and old cast all in "Days of Future Past"). Hugh Jackman as Wolverine has shown up in some form in all the new X-Men movies, and of course they continued to make his movies through Logan alongside the main franchise.
  • MrXMrX CO
    awookiee said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    Agreed, Apocalypse was absolutely awful, I'm going to see Dark Phoenix tonight per the usual for me.  I hate how much power the critics have in reference to ticket sales.  Rotten Tomatoes throws up a low number for a movie and lots of people that were interested enough to go see it change their mind just because of it.  Granted, quite often they are correct in a movie being bad but I still hate the way it works.  I am very curious to see what Disney/Marvel Studios does with the Xmen universe.  It'll probably be a few years before they get into it but I'm hopeful. 


    I do agree in general that Rotten Tomatoes has too much influence, but the studio should have learned from Apocalypse (which as a critical and box office failure) and fixed what was wrong with it in this movie. So if it really is as bad, then they deserve to tank, and I'm not going to blame RT and fans for avoiding it.
    awookiee
  • MrX said:
    awookiee said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    Agreed, Apocalypse was absolutely awful, I'm going to see Dark Phoenix tonight per the usual for me.  I hate how much power the critics have in reference to ticket sales.  Rotten Tomatoes throws up a low number for a movie and lots of people that were interested enough to go see it change their mind just because of it.  Granted, quite often they are correct in a movie being bad but I still hate the way it works.  I am very curious to see what Disney/Marvel Studios does with the Xmen universe.  It'll probably be a few years before they get into it but I'm hopeful. 


    I do agree in general that Rotten Tomatoes has too much influence, but the studio should have learned from Apocalypse (which as a critical and box office failure) and fixed what was wrong with it in this movie. So if it really is as bad, then they deserve to tank, and I'm not going to blame RT and fans for avoiding it.

    At this point shouldn't Rotten Tomatoes be totally ignored.? I have never actually been to their site to look up a score so please correct me if I am getting this wrong.

    Didn't they kinda lock down the site to counteract SJW vs Alt Right battles? So now that they have clamped down on trolling isn't it now in control of Fandango so there will be inflated scores and should just be considered a ticket sale site now?
    rhcoop
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    hard to imagine that it's worse than Brett Ratner's Last Stand. still tho, if this is as bad as critics are saying it's a real bummer they ruined the Dark Phoenix/Jean Grey story AGAIN. i was always a fan of it in the comics.
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited June 5
    CapeGabe said:
    MrX said:
    awookiee said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    Agreed, Apocalypse was absolutely awful, I'm going to see Dark Phoenix tonight per the usual for me.  I hate how much power the critics have in reference to ticket sales.  Rotten Tomatoes throws up a low number for a movie and lots of people that were interested enough to go see it change their mind just because of it.  Granted, quite often they are correct in a movie being bad but I still hate the way it works.  I am very curious to see what Disney/Marvel Studios does with the Xmen universe.  It'll probably be a few years before they get into it but I'm hopeful. 


    I do agree in general that Rotten Tomatoes has too much influence, but the studio should have learned from Apocalypse (which as a critical and box office failure) and fixed what was wrong with it in this movie. So if it really is as bad, then they deserve to tank, and I'm not going to blame RT and fans for avoiding it.

    At this point shouldn't Rotten Tomatoes be totally ignored.? I have never actually been to their site to look up a score so please correct me if I am getting this wrong.

    Didn't they kinda lock down the site to counteract SJW vs Alt Right battles? So now that they have clamped down on trolling isn't it now in control of Fandango so there will be inflated scores and should just be considered a ticket sale site now?

    I think their critic scores can be somewhat useful (there are issues, RT will cherry-pick key lines from a review and rate as a binary Fresh or Rotten, which ignores any nuance in the reviewer's take), and typically that is the score that people reference.

    Audience scores are the one that have had issues w/ fandom shenanigans, and I agree those should be ignored.
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited June 5
    CapeGabe said:
    MrX said:
    awookiee said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    Agreed, Apocalypse was absolutely awful, I'm going to see Dark Phoenix tonight per the usual for me.  I hate how much power the critics have in reference to ticket sales.  Rotten Tomatoes throws up a low number for a movie and lots of people that were interested enough to go see it change their mind just because of it.  Granted, quite often they are correct in a movie being bad but I still hate the way it works.  I am very curious to see what Disney/Marvel Studios does with the Xmen universe.  It'll probably be a few years before they get into it but I'm hopeful. 


    I do agree in general that Rotten Tomatoes has too much influence, but the studio should have learned from Apocalypse (which as a critical and box office failure) and fixed what was wrong with it in this movie. So if it really is as bad, then they deserve to tank, and I'm not going to blame RT and fans for avoiding it.

    At this point shouldn't Rotten Tomatoes be totally ignored.? I have never actually been to their site to look up a score so please correct me if I am getting this wrong.

    Didn't they kinda lock down the site to counteract SJW vs Alt Right battles? So now that they have clamped down on trolling isn't it now in control of Fandango so there will be inflated scores and should just be considered a ticket sale site now?
    It's just an aggregate site so works just fine for what it's supposed to do. It gives you one easy number to look at and see the general consensus critics have about a movie. As long as you understand that the number is just a percent of how many critics thought the movie was 3/5 or better, it works perfectly.

    The lockdown you're talking about is actually a really good thing. They're just making it so you have to have proof you've actually seen a movie before you rate it. It also only affects user scores and user scores will always be broken, so who really cares.
  • edited June 5
    MrX said:
    awookiee said:
    MrX said:
    Not surprised considering how bad Apocalypse was. A shame, since they have a good cast. I guess it's time for the MCU to reboot the X-Men.
    Agreed, Apocalypse was absolutely awful, I'm going to see Dark Phoenix tonight per the usual for me.  I hate how much power the critics have in reference to ticket sales.  Rotten Tomatoes throws up a low number for a movie and lots of people that were interested enough to go see it change their mind just because of it.  Granted, quite often they are correct in a movie being bad but I still hate the way it works.  I am very curious to see what Disney/Marvel Studios does with the Xmen universe.  It'll probably be a few years before they get into it but I'm hopeful. 


    I do agree in general that Rotten Tomatoes has too much influence, but the studio should have learned from Apocalypse (which as a critical and box office failure) and fixed what was wrong with it in this movie. So if it really is as bad, then they deserve to tank, and I'm not going to blame RT and fans for avoiding it.

     I feel like I'm jinxing myself by saying this but there's no way Dark Phoenix is AS bad as Apocalypse but I agree with you completely.  If it is only slightly better than Apocalypse it 100% deserves that stigma that Rotten Tomatoes is giving it.  I'm probably going in too optimistic but I have a hard time believing Dark Phoenix is going to be that bad.  And I lied, I'm not seeing it tonight, I'm seeing it tomorrow night.  It has seemed like way longer of a work week, it's only Wednesday not Thursday... Damn
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    I put zero stock in rotten tomatoes anymore when it comes to super hero and big tent pole films.  

    Many times the fans have a much higher score than the formal reviewers do and I don't know if that is because many reviewers are tired of having to watch these types of films or if it is more of a herd mentality. 

    I try to set my expectations for these types of movies.  I'm not expecting Dark Phoenix to change my life, but if it is fun and does an entertaining version of that classic xmen story, great.  

    It's kind of like Venom.  Reviewers hated it, fans loved it.  It's almost like reviewers will sharpshoot any super hero film that isn't a MCU production. 
    awookiee
  • redlancerredlancer Seattle
    edited June 5
    MrX said:
    redlancer said:

    Well, kinda, I think that was intended as more of a 'side-boot' if that's a thing?  But overall, yeah, they've turned the series into kind of a shambled mess :\

    Could definitely use some Marvel treatment. 

    I thought @gguenot meant he thought this film was a reboot, but yea the films starting with First Class were a sideboot of sorts - new cast but still in the same continuity as the original films from the 00's (and they had the new and old cast all in "Days of Future Past"). Hugh Jackman as Wolverine has shown up in some form in all the new X-Men movies, and of course they continued to make his movies through Logan alongside the main franchise.

    I just like how the new cast has now spanned 40 years of storytelling (First Class -> 60s 70s 80s 90s <- Dark Phoenix) but they still all look exactly the same :smiley:

    blue_sleeve
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited June 5
    rhcoop said:
    It's kind of like Venom.  Reviewers hated it, fans loved it.  It's almost like reviewers will sharpshoot any super hero film that isn't a MCU production. 

    Haven't seen Venom so can't comment on that, but here are the non-MCU superhero movies from the last 2 years with "Fresh" Rotten Tomato ratings:

    Shazam!
    Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
    Aquaman
    Deadpool 2
    Wonder Woman
    Logan


  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    I don't put much stock in RT; a single numeric value doesn't encapsulate the value of a movie. Instead there are a few critics I pay attention to--youtubers, film twitter, podcasts. I know which of them shares my taste and can tell if I'm going to like something after I hear enough reviews. That being said, every single person I pay attention to says this move is dogshit and it breaks my heart. I wanted this to be Fox's grand sendoff & have the X-Universe go out in a blaze of glory but alas...
    Jim
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    MrX said:
    rhcoop said:
    It's kind of like Venom.  Reviewers hated it, fans loved it.  It's almost like reviewers will sharpshoot any super hero film that isn't a MCU production. 

    Haven't seen Venom so can't comment on that, but here are the non-MCU superhero movies from the last 2 years with "Fresh" Rotten Tomato ratings:

    Shazam!
    Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
    Aquaman
    Deadpool 2
    Wonder Woman
    Logan


    i'm glad Shazam got the RT love it got, cause i really enjoyed it and think it's the best and most fun DCU movie.
  • I usually read a few reviewers that seem to have the same taste as me. I don't understand how these aggregate scores are helpful in something mostly subjective.
  • RT isn't the end all be all of how good a movie is, but  it seems like it's generally correct imo. If it's as low as 18%, I think it's a safe bet to assume that most people won't like it. Of course liking a movie is a super subjective thing, but RT is a useful site for me because I usually find it to be close to the mark. 
  • The Phoenix Saga / Dark Phoenix works so well because you’ve known Jean for years so the huge change in personality and how it affects her friends and her long relationship with Scott is what makes the story so powerful. Without that it’s just she’s gone crazy with power and has to be stopped. They just introduced this Jean so how do we even know this is out of character when they haven’t set one up. 
    ScottTenorman
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    CapeGabe said:
    I usually read a few reviewers that seem to have the same taste as me. I don't understand how these aggregate scores are helpful in something mostly subjective.
    The fact that movie reviews are subjective is the exact reason why aggregate scores are helpful. It eliminates the subjectivity. If a movie is 90% on Rotten Tomatoes, it just means 90% of critics think the movie is worth going to see.

    Of course, it doesn't hold a candle to finding reviewers who have similar tastes to you and consuming their content, but that takes time and effort and also doesn't give you the consensus opinion.
    CapeGabeBloodyTaco
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    I think this thread has more reviews of rotten tomatoes than the movie. 
    ChinaskiawookieeAww_PHuuCkblue_sleeve
  • edited June 6
    I think this thread has more reviews of rotten tomatoes than the movie. 
    My bad my bad, I was the one that started us down this dark path of Rotten Tomatoes criticism lol.
    ChinaskiTeresa from Concord
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited June 6
    This movie was destined to fail. No big twist where Bran becomes the Phoenix. I think this was supposed to be released back in March but test audiences scored it low and they kicked to summer. So I guess Fox had there second chance at this classic story and they botched it. Maybe Disney can take a third shot. Anyway Phoenix was the last Chris Clairmont x men story I read and I’m kinda disappointed they couldn’t get it right.  

    Currently at 22% I was thinking of going to see it but I guess I’ll go to Godzilla. Just checked it at 39% guess I’ll just not go to the movies this summer.
  • awookiee said:
    I think this thread has more reviews of rotten tomatoes than the movie. 
    My bad my bad, I was the one that started us down this dark path of Rotten Tomatoes criticism lol.

    I'll take my fair share of blame. Sometimes these forums throw me into Cliff Clavin mode
    awookieeMurderbearTeresa from Concord
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    edited June 6
    Rotten Tomatoes needs a 'Fresh', 'Rotten' and 'Decent, Won't Make You Sick' rating system.
    kingbee67awookiee
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    Chinaski said:
    Rotten Tomatoes needs a 'Fresh', 'Rotten' and 'Decent, Won' Make You Sick' rating system.
    I hate old Tomatoes when they get that grainy texture. So grainy would be one of my description choices. Also nothing worse than a moldy tomato that squishes when you try to clean it up.
    Chinaski
  • kingbee67 said:


    Currently at 22% I was thinking of going to see it but I guess I’ll go to Godzilla. Just checked it at 39% guess I’ll just not go to the movies this summer.

    Godzilla wasn't particularly good either.  Go in with low expectations.  LOL
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