504 - "Sons of the Harpy" - SPOILERS!!!

Director: Mark Mylod
Writer: Dave Hill
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Comments

  • JasWJasW Minneapolis, MN
    edited May 2015
    Oops.  Guess that five minutes mattered. :)
  • I was waiting for the episode to air to speak about this because i watched it when it leaked but looks like Arya will have a chance to cross a name from her list in the
    near future if Sir Meryn Trant is going to Braavos with Master of coin
    Mace Tyrell to negotiate a deal with the Iron Bank.

    steph_bSlytherinSisterkrislfrazierElisajoschmanVeronica
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    Explains why they'd shorten her list and leave Meryn on. And the Mercy chapter is dropped so it's not gonna spoil the books.
    SlytherinSisterElisaA_Ron_HubbardVeronica
  • Mike SnowMike Snow Portland, ME
    For the most part, I'm OK with the show diverging from the books, but there's no way I can say that about the last five minutes of tonight's episode. 

    Barristan Selmy's chapters are probably my favorite part of DWD. RIP
    Elisasteph_bRaiyne
  • How in hell does Cersei even knew to send a raven to Winterfell to get
    in contact with Littlefinger because as far as she knows he is still in
    the Vale.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited May 2015
    @fortier1985  In the previous episode, Roose told Littlefinger that a rider from the Eyrie had delivered Cersei's message that morning.

    So... R+L=J in the show, that's exciting, no?
    SlytherinSistersteph_bElisaGeorgexileVeronica
  • I watched all of the leaked episodes early, so I've been waiting to talk about the R+L=J moment!! Sansa finding the feather, then Littlefinger's story, and him kind of leaving Sansa's interpretation of the story open-ended. It was all clearly a wink to the book readers. If we see blue flowers at the wall later in the season, they will have pretty much spelled it all the way out for us.
    A_Ron_HubbardElisa
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    You guys think Selmy is really dead? I think grey worm is still alive but it's hard to believe Barristan the Bold could live through that? Is so, is him going out kicking ass make up for missing out on his duel with Khrazz?
    Elisaamshaffer
  • Is anyone else suprised that Jamie is so vengeful against Tyrion? The show left them on good note before Tyrion escapes, and if my memory serves, Jamie and Tywin's relationship was much more heated in the show than in the books, especially when discussing their "din-asty."

    Also, which is more uncomfortable, Jon and Melisandre scene or Little Finger kissing Sansa?

    Awesome episode overall! RIP Ser Barristan
    Elisa
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    EW published an article tonight which confirms Barristan is for reals dead. It was an interview with the actor and how emotional he was about it.
    ElisakrislfrazierGeorgexile
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    In addition to Littlefinger's story to Sansa, you had Selmy reminiscing about what a swell guy Rhaegar was in King's Landing, Stannis expressing disbelief that it was in Ned's character to father a bastard, and Melisandre talking creepily about Jon's "power" while probably trying to make a shadow baby with him (ugh).  The show made the subtext text.


    steph_bElisakrislfrazierchriskuncle_gSingletonEnver
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    They unleashed 4 books worth of laying the foundation of the parentage of Jon for sure.
  • Very true @pavlovsbell!! All of those moments spoke to it. The spoilore cast should be real juicy this Friday.
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited May 2015

    In addition to Littlefinger's story to Sansa, you had Selmy reminiscing about what a swell guy Rhaegar was in King's Landing, Stannis expressing disbelief that it was in Ned's character to father a bastard, and Melisandre talking creepily about Jon's "power" while probably trying to make a shadow baby with him (ugh).  The show made the subtext text.


    Yes! I think the Stannis line was the strongest indicator that they're headed that way. I don't recall now if this is true, but I think I guessed R+L = J from Season 1, before I read the books. Which is odd for me, because I'm often the last to pick up on those things. I wonder how many show-only watchers have caught on by now, assuming they haven't already been exposed to it. I'm wondering if the show Littlefinger has some knowledge about it, which would be an interesting turn and would help bolster the claim. I almost thought he was going to tell Sansa.


    I think Selmy has already dropped the important information to Dany from the books hasn't he? Seems like she has the gist of things about her father and Rhaegar. Nice to see Dany (and Emilia Clarke) have a lighter moment. They certainly didn't let it last for long.

    Even more greyscale talk. I have no idea where they're going with that. 

    Elisapavlovsbell
  • I'm going to be disappointed if Jim doesn't pick up on R + L = J by the full-cast. I know A.Ron is dying to talk about it!
    ElisaGeorgexilekrislfrazier
  • I'm going to be disappointed if Jim doesn't pick up on R + L = J by the full-cast. I know A.Ron is dying to talk about it!




    I enjoyed A.Ron's gentle prodding on that scene and Jim was like "I don't even know what they said." In fairness I tried to explain the R+L=J theory to my wife and she just got confused "wait who is Rhaegar ... Oh he's not even in the show and I'm supposed to keep track of a few lines of expository dialogue here and there over the course of 5 seasons"? That's one place where perhaps a flashback to Roberts Rebellion would be helpful to the casual watcher.
    ksa1001steph_bElisaJayInMemphis
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    In the instant cast I believe @A_Ron_Hubbard referred to the relationship between Jaime and Cersei as being a thing of the past, but in the same finale (before Tywin was killed) 4:10/The Children, the two had finally gotten together (consensually).
    After she reveals their relationship to Tywin she tells Jaime that all she wants is him, so I dare say it had JUST started back up.
    Elisa
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    It's definitley going to be a thing of the past if even a single hair on Myrcella's head is hurt. Jaime can't afford a single misstep in Dorne.
    Elisa
  • MrX said:

    I'm going to be disappointed if Jim doesn't pick up on R + L = J by the full-cast. I know A.Ron is dying to talk about it!




    I enjoyed A.Ron's gentle prodding on that scene and Jim was like "I don't even know what they said." In fairness I tried to explain the R+L=J theory to my wife and she just got confused "wait who is Rhaegar ... Oh he's not even in the show and I'm supposed to keep track of a few lines of expository dialogue here and there over the course of 5 seasons"? That's one place where perhaps a flashback to Roberts Rebellion would be helpful to the casual watcher.



    I think the Stannis conversation set up the episode to tell us a bit more about Jon's mother. And man, every other scene they talked about Rhaeger!

    I have not read the books (I tried during my maternity leave but my brain was just too fried to deal with it), so I've just been taking in the spoilers because they make the show a richer experience for me. Of course, I can't follow half of them, but the ones that I do just blow my little mind.
    Elisa
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I would prepare for disappointment RE: Jim picking up on the R+L=J thing.  You know, it's hard to not see it if you know about it, but I remember re-reading AGOT after I had started looking into the Internet wisdom about the books, and thinking how blindingly obvious it is when you know about it, but having seen the show AND reading the books once I had no idea.  Then again, I thought it was obvious on first read that the Gravedigger was the Hound and was shocked that people missed that on their first read. 
    Elisa
  • Yeah, I don't think the average show watcher is going to pick up on R+L=J, especially ones like Jim that wish to remain truly unsullied. It's been drilled in since season 1 that Jon is "Ned Stark's bastard." The children, the entire realm, all acknowledge him as such, so why would the average watcher believe otherwise?

    I believe the theory (Is it really still a theory at this point?) will only make sense if you have prior knowledge of it, to pick up on the hints and clues that they drop.

    With so much being hinted at regarding Jon's true parentage, I'm hoping it will be revealed by the end of the season. We book readers all know what lies ahead for Jon's fate. It would be nice to add this on top. Do we know if Howland Reed will be/has been cast at all?
    Elisaschadenfreudianslip
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    I was pleasantly surprised that my unsullied friend picked up the Rhaegar Lyanna stuff last night. Its so much fun to relive the joy of the aha moment vicariously through friends.  
    Elisa
  • uncle_guncle_g CA, USA
    Can't believe Selmy continuing to be alive on the show is even a question...IMHO, Certainly not given the rate he has been brain dumping on Dani the last several episodes.  

    In fact, it's almost as if he knew he was going to die...as if the events of his life had been written up and served to him ahead of time. :-)  

    Corny cynicism aside, scenes of him running TOWARD what everyone else was running FROM were totally BADA$$.  And they kinda got to me and made me think of 9/11 first responders.  I've been moved (And not just shocked & surprised) by this show for the second time this season ("The North Remembers" being the first).  Well Played double-D's!!  

    ElisaA_Ron_Hubbard
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    trippy said:

    I don't think that the Jon's parentage has been THAT drilled in (that he is unquestionably Ned's ).  I think a few hints were dropped in Season 1, Ned saying "next time we meet, we'll talk about your mother".  Ned was pretty much dripping with "this will be important".  Then there was some obviously uncomfortable conversation with King Robert about "your bastard's mother... wassername?".  My view of that was colored a bit with book knowledge but I interpreted that scene as pretty obviously Ned lying about a name, and Robert misunderstanding his discomfort for embarrassment over marital indiscretion.   I think that was a seed that was planted, along with plenty PLENTY of "NEd was an honorable man" sentiments from 46 some odd people throughout the series.

    trippy said:

    (note: how do you do that thing where you link to a youtube video and it shows the actual video, vs having to use the hypertext link?  never been able to figure that out. )

    Agreed.  I've almost reached the point where I have selective deafness whenever a character brings up Ned Stark's capital-H honor.  If a show watcher has not wondered at least once how to reconcile Ned's goody-two shoes reputation with cheating on Catelyn and then driving a further wedge in their marriage by refusing to talk about his "betrayal," then they are not paying attention.

    Regarding the youtube links, I just copy the "share" link and enter that as I would normal text and hit "enter."  I do not using the hyperlink option in the formatting menu.
    steph_b
  • CJwriterCJwriter North of the Wall... MT
    I think we finally saw the 1st huge show to book spoiler last night. Something that GRRM told David n D.B., which hasn't been confirmed by the books, only strongly inferred.  R+L=J, seems that all the exposition of the threads of R and L were there for the non-readers to catch the gist when it's finally revealed. 

    Will Meryn Trant (on his way to Braavos) take the place of Dareon (of the Night's-Watch) for Arya to kill without sanction, and then be blinded? Seems like a logical transition, and Meryn Trant's on her list.
    Veronica
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    The Double Ds are preparing for the end game IMO, which is why all the setup for R + L = J, Greyscale etc.   
    CJwriter
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    @CJwriter Im pretty sure Meryn will take the place of the guy Arya kills in the Mercy chapter which was dropped as a preview TWOW chapter last year.
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Homosexuality is seen as an "abomination" by the faith of the Seven, so yeah.  Not sure if it's a capitol crime, but I assume if the Faith Militant is running the tribunal it will be.  

    I think another close parallel to the FM is the KKK.  Not the pitiful remnant of malcontents and losers we have today, but in their heyday and at the height of their social and political powers, where they could pack legislatures and juries and dole out "official" justice, and barring that, dish out retribution personally.  Paramilitary style defenders of common men and women against a rising tide of uncleaness and filth that cloak themselves in righteousness and holiness. 

    A scary thought, for sure.
    JayInMemphis
  • browniefivebrowniefive Minneapolis, MN

    You guys think Selmy is really dead? I think grey worm is still alive but it's hard to believe Barristan the Bold could live through that? Is so, is him going out kicking ass make up for missing out on his duel with Khrazz?

    Yeah I  think he's dead based on how the scene ended. If Grey Worm lives, he's gonna be out of commission.

    My only gripe when rethinking that scene is this: The Unsullied are to be the best of the best. Trained beyond training to be combatants and fight. I'd think based on the odds (looked 2-1 in favor of harpies), they'd have formed up and beat the shit out of the Harpies. Grey Worm theoretically isn't any better or worse a fighter than the rest. And yet he was the only one throwing down some moved.

    Anyone else have thoughts on that?!
    hypergenesbElisaDavrum
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    @trippy  Show Loras is not a member of the Kingsguard.  He is the heir to Highgarden and was betrothed to Cersei.  I'm not crazy about the way Show Loras is defined by his gayness.  He comes across as a one-dimensional, fluffy character to me.   And the exchange, "Who are you?"  "Justice" was a little too action movie cliché.

    I'm also not crazy about instant holy war, but I didn't care for the King's Landing stuff in the books, so I could be biased.  But IIRC, Book Cersei was slightly less stupid in her machinations than Show Cersei.

    Tommen is way out of his league.  He should not venture down there himself, I think.  That would be the Hand's duty, but of course, he has no Hand or even a loyal / vicious guard like the Hound or Meryn, and at the end of the day, he's just a sweet, naive kid.  I feel really sorry for him.  The way people were shouting "abomination" at him implies that his right to the throne is becoming diluted.

    I did love the Stannis / Shireen scene.  Everything about it.  When she was fiddling with the war pieces (is there a name for them?), I saw Stannis' eyes make note, and I was hoping that he would move them back.  He did not disappoint.  I actually got a little misty-eyed by the time they hugged.  Once I got past the Arrested Development vibe of, "Why are you squeezing me with your body?"
    steph_bElisaksa1001
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