505 - "Kill the Boy" - Spoiler thread

Director: Jeremy Podeswa
Writer: Bryan Cogman
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Comments

  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    "A Targaryan, alone in the world." Cut to Jon walking into the room. Ahahahaha.
    SlytherinSisterkrislfrazierGeorgexileNatalieEnverElisaksa1001
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    That episode was bananas . Wow what a great hour of TV!
    SlytherinSister
  • Just watched this with my dad, who has never read the books and has never really watched the show.

    His thoughts: "wow, that Ramsay guy is a dick."

    I knew that Jorah was going to get greyscale, but GOD I did not know how much it would emotionally effect me.  He's my favorite character (other than Littlefinger) and his facial expression was so intense.

    Is it me or did the expedite the time table of Stannis in the North? I thought he was leaving a little early as compared to the books.
    martelo
  • GeorgexileGeorgexile Dominican Republic
    edited May 2015
    ...
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    I don't know. This stuff in Meereen is feeling clunky as hell. The whole feed the dragons / open the pits / marry me sequence was pretty awful. I think Danny is starting to look WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS season two bad for my money.
    NatalieElisasteph_b
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    So it seems like where we're headed is Jorah taking all the Jon Connington stuff, the grey scale will be substituted for the Pale Mare plague plot line, Brienne and the small folk of the Winterfell district will replace Mance / Able and the Spearwives, and of course Sansa will be Fake Arya / Jeyne Poole.  Miranda might have a part to play in the Spearwives replacement too.

    Still not sure they will end up following things to their logical conclusion and have Sansa be completely traumatized once again.  I really hope she somehow saves herself at the last minute, perhaps aided and abetted by Theon and Miranda, and even Brienne.  But I'm with Littlefinger, I'm not really into watching Sansa be a passive victim again.  I still don't see how Brienne makes it inside of Winterfell, though I suppose the small folk helping her out would go a long way.  Maybe her and Pod can get smuggled in a wagon full of wine for Ramsay's wedding?

    Loved Tyrion's "This isn't the Rhoyne" remark.  
    CJwritersteph_buncle_g
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    The more I think about it, I think about half of this episode didn't really work for me.  Hopefully, this will be the one clunky episode where the gears grind from the double D's having to mesh show reality to book reality, but everything happening across the Narrow Sea is a total mess for me. Maybe I'll like it better on second watch, but that marriage proposal of Dany's...  Woof. 
    ElisaGeorgexilesteph_bksa1001
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Yes this episode just didn't work for me either. Dany being so wishy washy - first going Targareyan bad ass with the dragons then changing her mind and taking the political road with Hizdahr in the same episode was like Whut??  The whole Greyworm/Missandei love story is a miss for me as well.

    I am still not quite sure where they are going with the Sansa at Winterfell story.  LF really did leave her with a bunch of maniacs so it will be interesting to see how Sansa makes the best of this situation.  

    The Wall was fine and the Jorah/Tyrion adventure was well done.  

    Hopefully this was just a meh episode and a minor bump in the rode.  The myriad of stories really didn't foward the story much, that said I am looking foward to seeing Ayra and Jaqen again next episode.
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited May 2015
    this episode had me hooked even though much of it was dialogue. 

    Loved Jon's scenes. Definitely feeling like Ollie or however you spell it is going to kill him. But the conversation between Jon and Tormund was straight up gold. Loving Jon this season. Watching his scenes makes me think he is the leader the people need but not the leader they want. Which goes 1 of 2 ways. Either he gets killed as the leader too good for this world or he becomes king. 

    That scene where Sansa is trying to keep it together at the dinner table then Roose informs Ramsey of the kid and she has this sort of sad smirk like face is just solid acting. She hardly said a line but owned that scene. This is why HBO is the shit. Superb acting in subtle situations like this really stick out to me. 

    Also interesting to hear Aron talk about how bastard lineage may work and literally the next episode we get a situation that could help explain that. 

    Mr Stannis talking to Samwell and Samwells desire to become a Maester. Could he become the Maester of the Nights Watch when Maester Aemon bites the dust?

    Lastly, looks like all that greyscale talk is finally paying off....

    UnderwoodRaiyne
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited May 2015
    Elisa said:

    Yes this episode just didn't work for me either. Dany being so wishy washy - first going Targareyan bad ass with the dragons then changing her mind and taking the political road with Hizdahr in the same episode was like Whut??  The whole Greyworm/Missandei love story is a miss for me as well.


    I am still not quite sure where they are going with the Sansa at Winterfell story.  LF really did leave her with a bunch of maniacs so it will be interesting to see how Sansa makes the best of this situation.  

    The Wall was fine and the Jorah/Tyrion adventure was well done.  

    Hopefully this was just a meh episode and a minor bump in the rode.  The myriad of stories really didn't foward the story much, that said I am looking foward to seeing Ayra and Jaqen again next episode.
    Elisa,

    I disagree. I think this is exactly how an immature and inexperienced leader would act. She is not a queen and she has a long way to go. Being wishy washy is what I would expect from such a young wanna be queen like Dany. I think its great storytelling for her to go back and forth and let her emotions get the best of her. She has no real royal level advisor. Her best advisor is dead and Dario is a mercenary born in the fighting pits with no political experience or educated background. 
    Raiyne
  • hypergenesbhypergenesb Atlanta
    edited May 2015
    This show is a bit of a mess right now. And I can't quite put my finger on entirely why. There's a little bit of everything not quite working to make it feel messier than it's previous seasons. Maybe it's that simple. 

    What I learned this episode: 
    • Stannis is a Strunk and White man. House Stannis motto should be: "Rather, very, little, pretty -- these are the leeches that infest the pond of prose, sucking the blood of words." 
    • Sansa needs a moment of reflection, and ask herself why she is attracting the most psychopathic men in the realm. That poor girl. 
    • Myranda's hip bone looks like it could kill a man. Somebody get that woman a goat burger and fries stat!
    • Sam probably would've become an amazing Maester. Do we know why Sam is at The Wall (I mean, show knowledge-wise)?
    steph_bElisaksa1001
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    Interesting that around half of you guys weren't into this episode. I was loving it from the start. I mean a two dragons lighting a guy on fire and ripping him in half? HELL YES haha. I will say have to agree with Elisa about the whole greyworm / Missandei part, just didn't work. The Sansa / Boltons partswas very intriguing. Every scene the Boltons are in, makes me even more excited for Stannis to come in and wreck them ( Hopefully ). And that last ten minutes though...  Watching Tyrion's reaction to Drogon and seeing the stone men standup in the background...Loved it.
    Hatorian
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    @Underwood ;

    I wouldn't say half/half. it appears me and you are the only ones who were really 100% into the episode. Granted the Dany parts were the weak link it was no where near the worst episode of the season. 
    Underwood
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Which episode is the worst? I think it's this one, but that's odd to say about a show that is still very well written and acted and compelling even when it's having an off episode or an off season.

    I feared for this season, because say what you will about feast and dance, they aren't as fast moving and compelling as the previous books. They exist to set the board up for the end game, and none of us even know what that is and if it will be as good as the initial setup. It's cool that they can cherry pick the best parts from these last massive two books, but the result is I think it is not going to be as smooth and natural a progression as the previous four Seasons.

    That said, it can still be absorbing and kick ass, but in context it is quite likely to feel like a recession from the high water marks of season three and four.
    ElisaCJwriterksa1001
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    I'm really enjoying the character development this season, and although the plot is moving quite slowly, I think /  hope it will pay off. The only disappointment me for has been the Danny plot line, which Tyrion can help with greatly.
    Elisa
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited May 2015
    @A_Ron_Hubbard

    I agree that its hard to say worst when its still better than 95% of the crap out there. But I put episode 1 or 2 under this. Maybe my ranking is a bit misguided since this episode being half way through the season obviously has a bigger build up and hype level to future events where the stakes are raised and episode 1 and 2 were just setting the table. But I don't see much difference between Dany's actions and story from those episodes to this one. She is still being a naive and inexperienced leader that is costing her. 

    If we are talking seasons then I would say the first half of season 5 ranks towards the bottom though. It competes with season 2 for the worst 5 episode half in my mind. 
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited May 2015
    Dany's and Jon's arc are probably the most slow burn character arcs in the history of TV. granted they don't get as much screen time given the wealth of characters in this show but 5 seasons in we are no where near their pinnacle. If i was to graph their arc out I would say were still climbing and about half way up Mt Everest. Jon seems to be getting closer to the peak giving the last couple of episodes. 

    If i was to use the Ygritte "You Know Nothing" model. then i would classify the 2 character as.

    Jon: Knows a little something
    Dany: Knows a little more than nothing
    UnderwoodElisaEmanuel
  • The only thing that put me off this episode was Greyworm/Missandei. Like A.Ron I don't understand their motivations, and I just don't see how it benefits the story as a whole. It feels like they threw them together just to have a bit of romance on the show. Other than that I really enjoyed this episode. Certainly more than the first three.

    Ramsey and his jealous wench are really testing Sansa, but I enjoyed the bit of satisfaction on her face as she watched Ramsey's reaction to his father's baby news. I hope we get to see her redeem herself this season. Yes, we want to see Brienne kick ass, and Stannis defeat the Boltons, but Sansa needs to exact her own revenge. And it needs to be HER, not someone coming to rescue her.

    As for Dany, I don't know what to make of that mess. I really don't like how they keep going back and forth with her character. She started out strong, with a goal and determination to make it happen. Assembling an army, birthing dragons, gathering up some advisors and conquering cities like a true bad ass. Now she's flip flopping all over the place. Yes conquering and ruling are two different things but how does she go from all that to second guessing her every move and making one arguably bad decision after the other. Has she learned nothing at all in her time as a ruler?
    Elisa
  • UnderwoodUnderwood Philadelphia, PA
    A Ron or anyone. When talking about the end game, how many more seasons are we thinking this show has left? Two, Three, More?
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited May 2015
    I actually liked the Dany stuff this episode, more than I have been lately. I liked frying the Head of the House. Certainly not a "good" act, but it's a decisive action that shows her power. She has no way to know who in particular is responsible but she has to punish someone. Best of all, it's also not a public display, just for the people that matter. I think Tyrion would approve. Goes against her whole due process stance, but she's always been up for revenge. She buried Xaro and her handmaiden alive essentially, fried that slaver, OK'd Viserys being gilded, and burned the witch alive. 

    Marrying Hizdahr? A little less organic than in the books, but I suppose I buy it. The thing is, she can't eliminate the former ruling class. They know at least something about managing things and running commerce. If she can keep them it's a good move.

    A lot of people seem to have liked the Boltons time this ep, but I can't muster enough interest except as it relates to Sansa. Not that I foresee a completely happy ending to the show or books, but the Boltons feel like little more than an obstacle to me and they just aren't compelling characters. I don't see them as a real threat. That scene with Ramsey and his girlfriend - what was that for, other than nudity? And to foreshadow her using that hip-bone as a weapon.

    How about Sansa's luck? Being paired with the two cruelest characters on the show. Which reminds me, whoever wrote in suggesting that Sansa go Gone Girl on Ramsay, I wonder if they didn't mean the scene toward the end of that movie rather than the systematic destruction of her husband. This show ain't got time for all that. The Red Consummation, let's call it. 
    Elisa
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    They've been saying 2 seasons, but who knows. If Winds of Winter ends up being a Storm of Swords type of deal, I could see them taking 1.5-2 seasons to cover it.  I'm sure HBO would be fine with another season of a monster hit, but it's up to the Double D's.
    Underwood
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    edited May 2015
    Season 5 has a been a complete shit show for me. Except for the Stannis/Shireen scene.
    hypergenesb
  • Yeah you can't follow up Season 4 with a bunch of diversions from the books AND a slow turtle pace to boot. If this is any indication of what is to come now that we are diverging so heavily from the books, I'm worried for the future of this show.
    steph_bElisa
  • EnverEnver Toronto

    • Myranda's hip bone looks like it could kill a man. Somebody get that woman a goat burger and fries stat!
    • Sam probably would've become an amazing Maester. Do we know why Sam is at The Wall (I mean, show knowledge-wise)?



    That was fucking weird and made me cringe too.

    In season one he told Jon he basically got kicked out. They couldn't afford to feed him and he wasn't pulling his weight.

    hypergenesb
  • EnverEnver Toronto
    The first stoneman plunging in the water reminded me of the opening scene in PROMETHEOUS. So that's where the engineers come from...
    Underwoodksa1001
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    Aside from the dysfunctional dinner party and the Roose and Ramsey follow-up conversation, I didn't care much for last night's episode.  It felt really flat.  But overall, I've enjoyed S5.  Maybe it's because I don't care for the books at this point in the story, or because I prefer a slower pace and more focus on character.  S4 was more explosive and virtually every episode was a tentpole episode, but it was too scattershot and plot-driven for my taste (and the rapey vibe was definitely a turnoff).  I like the way S5 is not jumping around from location to location every 5 minutes, although Dany is still the biggest drag for me.  In fact, after the episode ended, I said to my friend, "Except for Sansa, that was a real sausage fest."  I had completely forgotten that Dany was in the episode.

    I loved all the Bolton stuff and the layers of psychological manipulation.  I enjoyed watching Sansa soak it all in, and I'm super curious to see what her next move will be.  And the way Roose toyed with Ramsay during and after was masterful, but then I also could listen to Roose read a telephone book and I'd be enraptured.


    Elisa
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Precisely my thoughts with @janiegetyourgun.  That said I am still willing to give the double D's the benefit of the doubt.  These 2 books are not easy to handle and we are deep in the land of fan fiction now.  GOT is still the best out there.  I am just worried because the stories seem repetitive. Sansa feels like the old Kings Landing.  Also I was hoping that Dany with her dragons scene at the beginning of the episode was finally going to embrace her fire and blood side and that perhaps we were going to skip over the BS in Mereen.  Sadly no.  Very disappointed.
  • steph_bsteph_b Austin
    It seems to me that season 5 is jumping around as much or more than previous seasons. Episode 3 was particularly bad in that respect.

    And as for someone who also prefers slow shows with heavy characterization, I'm surprised you didn't like AFFC and ADWD as much as the previous 3 books, @pavlovsbell. Especially AFFC which gets you deep into the heads of many characters. That's precisely why I love AFFC so much and why season 5 is so disappointing. We're 4 and a half seasons in and the characterization seems to be regressing in dimension. Just compare season 1 Loras to season 5 Loras. He want from Lady MacBeth to fuckboy. It's sad.
    Elisapavlovsbellhypergenesb
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    Yes I feel Davos and Melisandre are also wasted so far.  Melisandre the boob master is getting tiresome.  Her character is much more complex in the books.  That said I do like how they are handling Stannis.

    Ramsey is a disturbing hoot.  Glad that Fat Walda got some screen time.  Reek/Theon is always very good.  Roose well was mind fucking everyone this episode in his oh so subtle wicked way.  

    Still the Myranda sex scene and taking Sansa to the dog pens to see Reek/Theon was a bit weird.  

    Brienne keeps telling everyone what she is up to.  

    Yes Loras sadly is a very one note character now.  


    Still one of the best shows out there.  Let's hope everything comes together in the 2nd half of the season.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited May 2015
    Oh, I'm infuriated by the characterization of Loras.  Wasn't he also supposed to be one of the best knights in Westeros?  What happened to that?  Now he's just defined by his sexuality.

    Perhaps it doesn't seem like they are jumping around as much because they are staying in one location, for the most part, before moving onto a different one.  I do prefer the location-centric episodes the most, however, but I know we can only have one or two of those per season.
    Elisasteph_b
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