102 - Martial Feats of Comanche Horsemanship (Spoilers)

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Comments

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Mostly I'm alerting everyone else to your troll pattern of (1) incendiary comment, (2) about-face appeal to cool rationalism, (3) victimization because I do like the Watchmen universe and want to have good discussions in this thread, and everyone getting caught up with troll tactics drives the good conversationalists away. You hear that everyone? ;) 
    hisdudeness915adobo1148Killert0astawookieepavlovsbellOpusWho
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    By the way, I forgot to share this earlier. Tom & Lorenzo (it's Tom though, in this case) have been having good write-ups for Watchmen that come out pretty much right after the show is over. They have screeners.

    Tom knows the comic and his analysis is good.

    I have wondered if the tomato scene will be a metaphor for what Jeremy Irons / Ozy is doing as a whole. One bite, admiring, squeezing, wasting. I'm not sure. Maybe it's just a clue that these copies of his servants are clones, but the show seemed to play up WHAT he did with the tomato too. But, maybe it was just to confirm it was a tomato.

    CretanBullpavlovsbell
  • It is incendiary to tell me, a black man, that I am racist against black people or to assume I am not black. Also, it is incendiary to be in favor of black people physically attacking white people who don't share the same beliefs like what happened in THIS episode at the trailer park. No about faces here. No one on this forum will speak out against it except me, lest they get threatened as well. Long story short, violence begets violence and we can already see in THIS episode that Regina's character already doesn't know who her boss was.
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited October 29
    First off, I have definitely met black people who were racist against black people so not a great defense. Second, kind of presumptuous to assume you’re the only one on the forum “speaking the truth” or something. I have in fact gotten in hearted arguments with people on this very forum over my disagreeing with them voicing support for politically motivated violence, a fact you would know had you put in the time and effort to do some research before spouting some off the cuff comments. 
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited October 29
    @shing
    Your problem is not that “police violence is bad” is an unpopular opinion, in fact I believe it is the primary opinion of myself and quite a few others including Jim and Aron who have made their opinions known in this several times in various podcast. Your problem is equating violence against alt-right violent extremists, a typically empowered segment of society in this country, especially currently; with violence against minorities like African-Americans, a typical repressed segment of society in this country, especially currently.

    If you started your argument more calmly then yes I’d be perfectly willing to engage with you in a discussion on whether black cops can be just as corrupt or racist as white cops, or whether police violence is justified in the case of extreme terrorist groups, or any number of topics. It’s when you start a sentence like “I almost cheered when the black cop got shot” after said black cop got shot by an actual white supremicist that you come off like you’re trying to start a bad faith argument. 
    hisdudeness915MurderbearKillert0astCretanBull
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @shing Was it incendiary that I assumed you were a man? It should be. Come on, you're supposed to be good at parroting liberal identity politics.
  • Dude’s comment about the potential tragedy of “so-called alt-right” people getting “lynched” is a pretty solid indicator that nothing else he says should be taken seriously or even honest. 
    JaimieTFlukesMurderbearKillert0asthisdudeness915CretanBull
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited October 29
    Well yes, anyone who genuinely thinks that the average Trump supporter and/or alt-right aficionado is somehow the most vulnerable segment of society and likely to be mass “lynched” has clearly lost the plot of American history and is possibly untethered to reality, so it would perhaps be more generous to assume a bad faith argument, but I try not to assume. 
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    Racist blacks aren't a good thing, but the difference between racist whites and blacks is one group has a helluva lot more political and economic capital and capability to act on their bad ideologies. It's not even  close. When black nationalists start taking state legislatures and winning national races I'll start worrying about them then. Worrying about alt righters getting lynched in the street is absurd. They're the clowns wearing skull shirts with crossed guns on them threatening "liberal snowflakes". They're the ones open carrying with STAY BACK 200 FEET OR YOU'LL BE SHOT written in Arabic on their shirts. I see this shit in the Midwest on a daily basis. It's an open threat to the lives and safety of minorities.

    You're going to have to find another place to argue against the basic premise of this show. Super not interested in hearing about this stuff going forward. The good news is there are so many places to go to that will eat that shit up, but no sale here.
    hisdudeness915DeeJaimieTCretanBullcalebthrowerElisalawgirl2528Killert0astFlukesJSDCAand 4 others.
  • JaimieT said:
    By the way, I forgot to share this earlier. Tom & Lorenzo (it's Tom though, in this case) have been having good write-ups for Watchmen that come out pretty much right after the show is over. They have screeners.

    Tom knows the comic and his analysis is good.

    I have wondered if the tomato scene will be a metaphor for what Jeremy Irons / Ozy is doing as a whole. One bite, admiring, squeezing, wasting. I'm not sure. Maybe it's just a clue that these copies of his servants are clones, but the show seemed to play up WHAT he did with the tomato too. But, maybe it was just to confirm it was a tomato.

    I love these guys!  I haven't checked their site in a while because they got burned out on the negative feedback from their TV reviews and I didn't realize that they were doing reviews again.  Their post about why they stopped covering the Walking Dead was the best.
    JaimieT
  • I haven't heard mentioned on here or on the podcast that when Angela's grandfather asks for his pills he also says "I haven't been home in a while". Did I hear that wrong? I assumed that was something to do with his origin story and not being from Earth. 
    ken hale
  • Loved, loved, loved the discussion of appropriation of black culture on the podcast for this episode. You both bring an insight very seldomly seen from others. Well done.
    FlukesJaimieT
  • edited October 30
    Right @A_Ron_Hubbard. So what happens if or when the show reveals that the black characters in this show have been led to participate in a race war by a Klansman? Will you drop the show?
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    edited October 30
    shing said:
    Right @A_Ron_Hubbard. So what happens if or when the show reveals that the black characters in this show have been led to participate in a race war by a Klansman? Will you drop the show?
    You've really lost the plot here @shing. I'd tell you to hold off on the victory lap until you're proven correct, but I have a feeling you're going to take whatever happens as validation whether it makes sense or not.

    Edit: I'll just add, if you think the premise of the show is that alt-right fuckwads are blameless victims being terrorized by black police for no reason, I'm not sure there's common ground for us to find. That's not the two episodes of television I just watched.
    DeeMurderbearawookieeCretanBullKillert0astpavlovsbellsassyfontaine
  • @Flukes Putting words into my mouth to win an argument I'm not making. Fine. But you, @A_Ron_Hubbard, and anyone else should be very comfortable standing on your principles. If the show says the protagonists were duped and wrong for using their positions as they have thus far, then my views will be on the side of the show and yours will be on the side of the Klan unless you admit you were duped as well. Yes, these words are inflammatory, but the show's subject matter is inarguably, in my opinion, magnitudes more inflammatory. But whichever way the story unfolds, I'm talking about morals and I choose not to ignore them based on racial politics or an ideology.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    ... except when it's time to cheer for a black man getting shot. 
    CretanBullFlukesKillert0ast
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited October 31
    Boy I couldn’t possibly give two shits about listening to more of this drivel so let’s all just move on shall we? I’m sure this would no doubt turn into a delightful series of back and forths but honestly why bother educating people unwilling to learn. 
    JaimieTDeeCretanBullawookieeken haleKillert0astsassyfontaine
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    That's at least the second troll to get banned responding to me.

    Am I the canary in the Bald Move coal mine? I'm picturing @Alkaid13 sitting at his computwr thinking "Jesus Christ this guy can't even get along with the Canadians".

    Pour one out for Emn and Shin.

    awookieeAlkaid13cdriveDeeCretanBullhisdudeness915JaimieTken haleKillert0astpavlovsbell
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    "inarguably, in my opinion" is one of my favourite internet non-sequitors.
    Alkaid13CretanBullawookieehisdudeness915JaimieTRenipavlovsbellsassyfontaine
  • Lol, that is in fact a very funny phrase, it’s either inarguable or it’s your opinion, those are mutually exclusive sentiments. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Excellent podcast! Still pissed I can't speculate on my favorite plot point because of that leak.
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    JaimieT said:
    Excellent podcast! Still pissed I can't speculate on my favorite plot point because of that leak.
    You could just create a new thread with warnings in the title and then people can take their own risk if they look at it. 
    JaimieT
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    I'm starting to think that Jeremy Irons isn't actually Veidt. I don't see the point of working so hard to make his identity a mystery when anyone with any familiarity with Watchmen is going to automatically assume it's Veidt.

    Why have a mystery unless you're setting up a big reveal? Not much of a mystery if everyone's figured it out before the show premieres.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited October 31
    Hunkulese said:
    I'm starting to think that Jeremy Irons isn't actually Veidt. I don't see the point of working so hard to make his identity a mystery when anyone with any familiarity with Watchmen is going to automatically assume it's Veidt.

    Why have a mystery unless you're setting up a big reveal? Not much of a mystery if everyone's figured it out before the show premieres.

    I don't think it's an intentional mystery though. It's just the absence of certainty. It's not as if there's a situation where his name would have been given but it was worked around. 
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited October 31
    JaimieT said:
    Hunkulese said:
    I'm starting to think that Jeremy Irons isn't actually Veidt. I don't see the point of working so hard to make his identity a mystery when anyone with any familiarity with Watchmen is going to automatically assume it's Veidt.

    Why have a mystery unless you're setting up a big reveal? Not much of a mystery if everyone's figured it out before the show premieres.

    I don't think it's an intentional mystery though. It's just the absence of certainty. It's not as if there's a situation where his name would have been given but it was worked around. 
    It's definitely an intentional mystery. HBO or Lindelof have never confirmed that Irons is playing Veidt. Anything official  refers to him as the Lord of the Manor and they had the Comic Con panel with the cast where Irons was "Probably who you think he is". What's the point? They're either trolling the audience because they know they're going to feverishly try to decipher any mystery they can sniff out or maybe he's not actually Veidt.

    I think there's a decent chance that "real" Veidt is actually dead and Irons is playing some kind of clone. I guess that could be the point, to not give away whether or not anything that's happening at the manor is real.
  • I appreciate the guys are aware many of their listeners haven’t seen the movie or are aware of the mythos behind the Watchmen. Lindelof has done a good job of not making terribly necessary to enjoy the show. 

    I hope they leave Will’s abilities constantly up for interpretation bc, as the guys have said, thats part of what made the leftovers so compelling. The confirmation of a theory is less important than the emotional and spiritual journey the characters. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Hunkulese said:
    JaimieT said:
    Hunkulese said:
    I'm starting to think that Jeremy Irons isn't actually Veidt. I don't see the point of working so hard to make his identity a mystery when anyone with any familiarity with Watchmen is going to automatically assume it's Veidt.

    Why have a mystery unless you're setting up a big reveal? Not much of a mystery if everyone's figured it out before the show premieres.

    I don't think it's an intentional mystery though. It's just the absence of certainty. It's not as if there's a situation where his name would have been given but it was worked around. 
    It's definitely an intentional mystery. HBO or Lindelof have never confirmed that Irons is playing Veidt. Anything official  refers to him as the Lord of the Manor and they had the Comic Con panel with the cast where Irons was "Probably who you think he is". What's the point? They're either trolling the audience because they know they're going to feverishly try to decipher any mystery they can sniff out or maybe he's not actually Veidt.

    I think there's a decent chance that "real" Veidt is actually dead and Irons is playing some kind of clone. I guess that could be the point, to not give away whether or not anything that's happening at the manor is real.

    Anything is possible. That said, I really don't think it will pan out like you're saying, but I'm basing this on what I feel would be cheap within the show universe (as a sequel to the Watchmen comic), not all the meta stuff that dies out in 10 years. Also I recognize I might not feel a misdirection is cheap depending on what it's for and how it's done. Also I recognize the show might end up being bad and basing a theory on what I feel is compelling could be pointless.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Dee said:
    JaimieT said:
    Excellent podcast! Still pissed I can't speculate on my favorite plot point because of that leak.
    You could just create a new thread with warnings in the title and then people can take their own risk if they look at it. 

    I don't want to attract leak-readers who are not careful about spoiling things. I don't want to create the Wild West lol.
    DeeKillert0ast
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    shing said:
    Right @A_Ron_Hubbard. So what happens if or when the show reveals that the black characters in this show have been led to participate in a race war by a Klansman? Will you drop the show?
    I know this guy is banned, but for anybody else curious; I'm against the fascist actions that police are taking on the Watchmen. It's horrifying. I thought I've made that clear? That doesn't mean the 7K are the "good guys". There is no moral framework in which to call the 7th Kav "good". Also, I'm certain not everyone who lives in Nixonville is a member of 7K, or even particularly racist, but the police brutality and injustice is going to push more and more to radicalization sure as the rain will fall. 

    The problem I see, is if you squint and re-arrange these shapes to recognizable real-world forms, it would be easy to say that 7K = BLM/Antifa, masked cops = blue lives matter/3 percenter types. The error there would be to conflate the plight of poor, disadvantages whites with poor, disadvantaged blacks. The former are in bad shape, and are in need of assistance, same as the latter. The difference is there was never any systematic, organized effort to dehumanize, terrorize and impoverish the former. The state of poverty in the United States is absolutely an issue with the system operating as designed, but the system does fuck with minorities in additional unique and insidious ways. For this reason, a violent black nationalist movement will always be inherently be more sympathetic than a violent white national movement. In a world where the African continent was a bit ahead on the tech, government, and resource tree and had conquered the world several times over, it's easy to imagine the reverse would be true, because it's not like black people are inherently "good" or lack the ability to abuse power. But that's not the world we actually live in, and it's offensive to play around like it is. 
    JaimieTawookieeKillert0astadobo1148calebthrowerAlkaid13FlukespavlovsbellMurderbearDeeand 7 others.
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