‘Star Wars’ Setback: ‘Game Of Thrones’ Duo David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Exit Trilogy

CretanBull

‘Star Wars’ Setback: ‘Game Of Thrones’ Duo David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Exit Trilogy

https://deadline.com/2019/10/star-wars-setback-game-of-thrones-duo-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-exit-trilogy-1202771184/

Peeps

Good. Whatever happened to their Civil War show?

CapeGabe

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaah 

CretanBull

Peeps said:

Good. Whatever happened to their Civil War show?

That went down in flames when the entire world told them that no one wants to see yet another examination of the African American slave experience done by two white guys.

Teresa from Concord

THEY have no time? Bwahahah.

Nice try. 

CretanBull

Teresa from Concord said:

THEY have no time? Bwahahah.

Nice try. 

Yeah, that's absurd.  Disney gave them a Brinks truck of money to make these movies...I think that they could have cleared their schedule to make sure that their great-grandkids would be millionaires.

Hunkulese

Probably for the best. They've already proven to be extremely talented writers and filmmakers, but there's zero chance their Star Wars trilogy would have been a success. I don't think there's anyone alive who can make a Star Wars trilogy that'll check all the boxes that Disney wants to check and appease the unappeasable fan base.

They just better make sure that whatever they make next is great. 

Hunkulese

CretanBull said:

Teresa from Concord said:

THEY have no time? Bwahahah.

Nice try. 

Yeah, that's absurd.  Disney gave them a Brinks truck of money to make these movies...I think that they could have cleared their schedule to make sure that their great-grandkids would be millionaires.

According to Celebrity Net Worth, both Weiss and Benioff are separately worth $50 million. Their Netflix deal is also worth 200 million. Their great-grandkids will be alright. 

Doctor_Nick

Disney dodges a bullet.  

RyanReeseman

Incredible news. 

JaimieT

I assumed this had already happened. They're just making it official. Rian Johnson won't, but Disney is letting him save face. 

To anyone who thinks Star Wars has a toxic fan base, you realize we fans are also fans of other franchises which you would not characterize as toxic, right? How would you explain that?

JoshuaHeter

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

JaimieT

JoshuaHeter said:

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

At least they brought in Feige, who would not have tossed out the entire EU and killed Luke Skywalker, destroying all hope we'd get anything close to the EU. Feige rewards fandom. I'm hopeful.

JoshuaHeter

JaimieT said:

JoshuaHeter said:

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

At least they brought in Feige, who would not have tossed out the entire EU and killed Luke Skywalker, destroying all hope we'd get anything close to the EU. Feige rewards fandom. I'm hopeful.

Fair... but this reminds me of Elf, where Buddy’s dad has basically run the company into the ground and his big idea to save everything... is just to bring in Peter Dinklage’s character to write a new book.

MrX

Peeps said:

Good. Whatever happened to their Civil War show?

Shelved indefinitely. And especially now considering how Watchmen is handling alternative US history and race quite well (so far), pretty sure HBO will never move it forward.

awookiee

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

RyanReeseman

JoshuaHeter said:

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

As somebody who has liked or loved everything Disney has done with Star Wars not called Solo, it’s hard to argue with the fact that Kathleen Kennedy is no longer fit to run this franchise. 

The Last Jedi might be *MY* favorite Star Wars movie, and *I* might think Rian Johnson has better ideas for the universe than anybody has since its inception, who perhaps over estimated the rest of the fanbase’s desire to join him in moving on from the OT, but it’s pretty obvious that the loudest part of the fandom doesn’t. You couple that with the rotating door of directors and the constant need for the bad kinds of reshoots, the fact that Kennedy just continues to cast herself in the lead roles of these films with zero eye for diversity or leaving the bubble of the OT with the spin-off films or series, and it’s pretty obvious what needs to happen. 

I think after TROS, you name Filoni the head of Lucasfilm and give him full creative control of the universe, effectively making him the Kevin Feige of Star Wars, and then you take a fucking break for like 3-5 years as far as the movies go. 

Keep making your Mandalorian show and your Obi-Wan show and your Cassian Andor show and whatever animated things you want, but keep it off the big screen for awhile. Re-tool the people in charge of the story group, spend all that time putting together a plan and a clear direction of where you want to go, and then come back with the movies set in the KOTOR timeline. Make that timeline the new normal for everything Star Wars, removed entirely from any expectations and characters that anyone has or knows, and just play in that sandbox for like 10-15 years so we never have to fucking hear the name Luke Skywalker ever again.

awookiee

RyanReeseman said:

JoshuaHeter said:

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

As somebody who has liked or loved everything Disney has done with Star Wars not called Solo, it’s hard to argue with the fact that Kathleen Kennedy is no longer fit to run this franchise. 

The Last Jedi might be *MY* favorite Star Wars movie, and *I* might think Rian Johnson has better ideas for the universe than anybody has since its inception, who perhaps over estimated the rest of the fanbase’s desire to join him in moving on from the OT, but it’s pretty obvious that the loudest part of the fandom doesn’t. You couple that with the rotating door of directors and the constant need for the bad kinds of reshoots, the fact that Kennedy just continues to cast herself in the lead roles of these films with zero eye for diversity or leaving the bubble of the OT with the spin-off films or series, and it’s pretty obvious what needs to happen. 

I think after TROS, you name Filoni the head of Lucasfilm and give him full creative control of the universe, effectively making him the Kevin Feige of Star Wars, and then you take a fucking break for like 3-5 years as far as the movies go. 

Keep making your Mandalorian show and your Obi-Wan show and your Cassian Andor show and whatever animated things you want, but keep it off the big screen for awhile. Re-tool the people in charge of the story group, spend all that time putting together a plan and a clear direction of where you want to go, and then come back with the movies set in the KOTOR timeline. Make that timeline the new normal for everything Star Wars, removed entirely from any expectations and characters that anyone has or knows, and just play in that sandbox for like 10-15 years so we never have to fucking hear the name Luke Skywalker ever again.

@RyanReeseman you have my vote.  That sounds amazing but unfortunately you know Disney won't let Star Wars stay off the big screen for that long.  It's a shame because the Star Wars universe really would benefit huge from a new head of Lucasfilm that has the ability to map out a plan for the next decade and stick to that plan.  

Doctor_Nick

I'm sure $200 million at Netflix will buy them several big projects.

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

CapeGabe

I am somewhat surprised with the pull these two get in the industry. Their script comments look like they are written by a high school student.

Some examples: 
"Dammit. She's in love with him," 
Jon and Sansa look at each other. They both failed geography.”
“That’s weird. But so is the new king.”
“Hard to argue with omniscience,” 

asmallcat

JaimieT said:

JoshuaHeter said:

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

At least they brought in Feige, who would not have tossed out the entire EU and killed Luke Skywalker, destroying all hope we'd get anything close to the EU. Feige rewards fandom. I'm hopeful.

The EU was, on balance, terrible. There were a few gems, but most of it sucked (and I read it all when I was a SW obsessed adolescent and teen). They still own everything, so they can still use anything good (see Thrawn being a thing in a canon TV show), they just aren't beholden to any of the bad stuff and they don't have to go through and line-by-line say what's canon and what isn't. Dumping the EU was the only reasonable decision by the 2010's. 

CretanBull

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

JaimieT

CretanBull said:

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

Every writer is different BUT as someone who has both written fanfic and original stuff, they have demonstrated to me they don't have much writing ability on their own. They're not terrible but they're middling. I'm not excited for anything original they want to write. They're network television good.

Edit: Oh, I kind of jumped one thought ahead of you there in responding to what I think the comeback is, which is that they will theoretically do better with their own original characters and plot. That's not how it works, in my own admittedly limited experience. Not to mention they had 4-5 seasons consulting with George to get to know those characters. 

Teresa from Concord

CretanBull said:

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

Exactly right.

RyanReeseman

CretanBull said:

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

Yes, and that they didn’t actually run out of book material. They either completely changed or completely ignored huge swaths of the story starting way back in Season 4, and then acted like they ran out of book way before they did. There are damn near 3 or 4 huge plot points that they just completely excised from the show altogether.

RyanReeseman

asmallcat said:

JaimieT said:

JoshuaHeter said:

It’s hard to imagine Disney handling this franchise worse than it has.

At least they brought in Feige, who would not have tossed out the entire EU and killed Luke Skywalker, destroying all hope we'd get anything close to the EU. Feige rewards fandom. I'm hopeful.

The EU was, on balance, terrible. There were a few gems, but most of it sucked (and I read it all when I was a SW obsessed adolescent and teen). They still own everything, so they can still use anything good (see Thrawn being a thing in a canon TV show), they just aren't beholden to any of the bad stuff and they don't have to go through and line-by-line say what's canon and what isn't. Dumping the EU was the only reasonable decision by the 2010's. 

Yeah, but without the EU I can’t imagine a scenario in which anyone loves Luke Skywalker, and he’s supposed to be the big hero or something. No way it’s because of anything Mark Hamill did in the OT, because fucking WOOF.

Doctor_Nick

I think they clearly wanted to be done with Game of Thrones - their interests in keeping the show going waned.  With the amount of material they had to explore, if they were Vince Gilligan they would have many seasons left. 

@RyanReeseman

Yes, and that they didn’t actually run out of book material. They either completely changed or completely ignored huge swaths of the story starting way back in Season 4, and then acted like they ran out of book way before they did. There are damn near 3 or 4 huge plot points that they just completely excised from the show altogether.

Hunkulese

CretanBull said:

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

It's kind of sad how much the fanbase has turned on the Ds. They did an amazing job on Game of Thrones and were phenomenal writers for most of the series, but I will agree that the ending was 100% trash. But so are the endings to a lot of things. People are still mad at Lindeloff for how Lost ended and then he went on to create the best show with the best ending in the history of television.

They made a bunch of changes, small and large, that definitely improved the show. I put most of the blame on how things turned out on GRRM. After the third book, he hit the brakes hard and slowed things down to a snail's pace. One example is he wrote 364 chapters (364 might be a slightly inflated number) of Brienne and Pod just walking and maybe two of them were decent. Anything after book three was unfilmable as a tv series, especially what the massive audience had come to expect from the show. GRRM himself said that it would have taken multiple more seasons of the TV show to translate what he was writing to the screen. I don't think anyone involved in the show was all that interested in doing ten seasons of meandering plots.

A lot of the best episodes of the show were also not based on book material. Hardholme was only referenced in the books, The Door isn't going to be the same, The Spoils of War was the Ds, The Winds of Winter was the Ds, and most people's favourite episode, The Battle of the Bastards, was the Ds.

Yeah, they fucked up the final two seasons, but they were also responsible for some of the best TV ever made and don't deserve the massive amounts of hate they're getting. But hey, what's the Internet there for if not to hate things?

That being said, it was definitely the right decision. It was an unwinnable situation. It's like how Spielberg, Zemeckis, and Ron Howard were all smart enough to say, "Thanks, but no thanks," when Lucas tried to get them to direct the prequels.

CretanBull

Hunkulese said:

CretanBull said:

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

It's kind of sad how much the fanbase has turned on the Ds. They did an amazing job on Game of Thrones and were phenomenal writers for most of the series, but I will agree that the ending was 100% trash. But so are the endings to a lot of things. People are still mad at Lindeloff for how Lost ended and then he went on to create the best show with the best ending in the history of television.

They made a bunch of changes, small and large, that definitely improved the show. I put most of the blame on how things turned out on GRRM. After the third book, he hit the brakes hard and slowed things down to a snail's pace. One example is he wrote 364 chapters (364 might be a slightly inflated number) of Brienne and Pod just walking and maybe two of them were decent. Anything after book three was unfilmable as a tv series, especially what the massive audience had come to expect from the show. GRRM himself said that it would have taken multiple more seasons of the TV show to translate what he was writing to the screen. I don't think anyone involved in the show was all that interested in doing ten seasons of meandering plots.

A lot of the best episodes of the show were also not based on book material. Hardholme was only referenced in the books, The Door isn't going to be the same, The Spoils of War was the Ds, The Winds of Winter was the Ds, and most people's favourite episode, The Battle of the Bastards, was the Ds.

Yeah, they fucked up the final two seasons, but they were also responsible for some of the best TV ever made and don't deserve the massive amounts of hate they're getting. But hey, what's the Internet there for if not to hate things?

That being said, it was definitely the right decision. It was an unwinnable situation. It's like how Spielberg, Zemeckis, and Ron Howard were all smart enough to say, "Thanks, but no thanks," when Lucas tried to get them to direct the prequels.

My problems with Game of Thrones started way before the ending.  Off the top of my head I can't pinpoint an exact turning point but it was probably as far back as season 4 or 5.  Those first 3-4 seasons were incredible, but somewhere around season 4-5 some cracks started to show and it was a pretty steady decline from there.  Obviously, there were some great moments during the weaker seasons, but I don't think anyone would argue that any of seasons 5-8 were better than any of seasons 1-4.

Hunkulese

CretanBull said:

Hunkulese said:

CretanBull said:

awookiee said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I'm actually disappointed with this.  I really want to see the Double D's get a chance to head and write their own big project after Game of Thrones to see what they can do with something they can call their own.  

I never read the GoT books, but didn't the series spiral out of control once D&D were off the stuff that Martin wrote?  Isn't the cause of the show sucking that they started writing their own stuff (with Martin's plot guidance)? 

It's kind of sad how much the fanbase has turned on the Ds. They did an amazing job on Game of Thrones and were phenomenal writers for most of the series, but I will agree that the ending was 100% trash. But so are the endings to a lot of things. People are still mad at Lindeloff for how Lost ended and then he went on to create the best show with the best ending in the history of television.

They made a bunch of changes, small and large, that definitely improved the show. I put most of the blame on how things turned out on GRRM. After the third book, he hit the brakes hard and slowed things down to a snail's pace. One example is he wrote 364 chapters (364 might be a slightly inflated number) of Brienne and Pod just walking and maybe two of them were decent. Anything after book three was unfilmable as a tv series, especially what the massive audience had come to expect from the show. GRRM himself said that it would have taken multiple more seasons of the TV show to translate what he was writing to the screen. I don't think anyone involved in the show was all that interested in doing ten seasons of meandering plots.

A lot of the best episodes of the show were also not based on book material. Hardholme was only referenced in the books, The Door isn't going to be the same, The Spoils of War was the Ds, The Winds of Winter was the Ds, and most people's favourite episode, The Battle of the Bastards, was the Ds.

Yeah, they fucked up the final two seasons, but they were also responsible for some of the best TV ever made and don't deserve the massive amounts of hate they're getting. But hey, what's the Internet there for if not to hate things?

That being said, it was definitely the right decision. It was an unwinnable situation. It's like how Spielberg, Zemeckis, and Ron Howard were all smart enough to say, "Thanks, but no thanks," when Lucas tried to get them to direct the prequels.

My problems with Game of Thrones started way before the ending.  Off the top of my head I can't pinpoint an exact turning point but it was probably as far back as season 4 or 5.  Those first 3-4 seasons were incredible, but somewhere around season 4-5 some cracks started to show and it was a pretty steady decline from there.  Obviously, there were some great moments during the weaker seasons, but I don't think anyone would argue that any of seasons 5-8 were better than any of seasons 1-4.

That's true to the books though. Books 1-3 were amazing and I think anyone could enjoy them. I don't necessarily think books 4 and 5 are bad, but they take a lot more effort to squeeze the enjoyment out of and are not easy to recommend. Books 4 and 5 are such a challenge, I wouldn't really recommend anyone start the series now unless I really knew if they were up for it.

fralmaas

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2019/10/28/game-of-thrones-showrunners-david-benioff-and-db-weiss-confirmed-the-worst-suspicions-of-the-fanbase/#383d8bdbf37c

- "Benioff and Weiss emerged from their public hibernation to attend a panel at the Austin Film Festival, and finally answer some questions from fans. The two were brutally honest, essentially admitting that they were never fully qualified for the job from the beginning."

- "Benioff and Weiss still aren’t sure why George R.R. Martin entrusted them with his magnum opus, as the two didn’t have any comparable experience, or even an appreciation of the book’s themes. (...) In fact, Benioff once said: “Themes are for eighth-grade book reports,” which tells you all you need to know about his dedication to the art of storytelling."

- "The two went on to admit that they had absolutely no idea how to work with costume designers (kind of important for a fantasy series), and described their experience making Thrones as “an expensive film school.”"

- "The two never went online to read criticisms of the show from fans, who clearly understood the books better than they did. Well, Benioff searched online, once, but the results “upset him,” so he never did it again."

Well, this answers a few questions!