103 - She Was Killed by Space Junk (Spoilers)

245

Comments

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited November 2019
    Overall thoughts I didn't mention yet: 

    • I don't care if Bob Benson is a racist. I just want him to settle down with a nice man and Christina Hendricks can buy them a Chevy as a wedding gift.
    • I think Ozy is on Mars and he's sending a guy out into space, and that the horizon is an optical illusion.
    • My love for Jeremy Irons is like a raging sun and I will cherish these scenes until the day I die. But at the moment they are fucking obnoxious.
    • I am loving the deification of Doctor Manhattan. Lindelof asks big life questions and it just occurred to me that of course you will want to play with a god, as a writer, when you do that. More absentee god trauma, a la absentee father trauma!
    • Laurie Blake is life goals.
    FlukessassyfontainepavlovsbellJanel
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    I have a theory on the pills Will is taking last episode.  He says they are to help with his memory, but when Sister Night returns he's out of his cuffs and has went out to get eggs.

    I think the pills are a Watchman riff on the Miraclo drug that Hourman uses in the Justice Society DC comics.  Miraclo gives Hourman super strength, speed, agility, reflexes and durability for a full hour. 

    Sounds an awful lot like what Hooded Justice appeared to use in the TV show and that might help a 104 year old man lift Don Johnson up to his death.
    sassyfontainegjames80
  • I am so here for silly, fun Damon Lindelof. It seems like The Leftovers was very therapeutic for him mentally, professionally, and creatively. That last season was playful in a way that the other two just weren’t, and it has definitely carried over into these first 3 episodes of Watchmen and I’m having a blast with it. 

    For me, Lindelof creates worlds and stories that I just want to wade around in. Move the plot/don’t move the plot, answer questions/don’t answer questions, I don’t care. Just let me sit and hang out in this world for an hour every Sunday, and then discuss and speculate and listen to podcasts and do multiple re-watches before the next one, like how I used to do with Game of Thrones before that went into a death spiral. 
    Elisasassyfontainej0n1c4Killert0astTeresa from Concord
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited November 2019
    Related/unrelated side note...would you agree that at least some of the hate for LOST has been tempered by the greatness of The Leftovers?  That once people got a better taste of Lindelof's style some people were able to cognitively reframe some of what they didn't like about LOST?
    I don't doubt that some people who watched The Leftovers perhaps reexamined their feelings about Lost, but given that maybe three dozen people watched TL, I don't think that's a huge boost. I'm kidding, three dozen is the number of people who watched Rectify. I think distance and time has benefited Lost, and there is a new generation who doesn't have that baggage. There has been a LOST resurgence recently with youtube reactors and podcasts -- Storm of Spoilers has been doing a rewatch with a separate spoiler section and guests (some from the show). They had Damon on for the S1 finale.

    Has anyone listened to the official Watchmen podcast that just launched? I listened to it in parts while I working, but my ears pricked up when Damon talked about how Laurie didn't get enough development in the book, and the writers room was watching Killing Eve at the time and were blown away by it -- the idea of two women playing cat-and-mouse instead of the typical male duo. So hopefully, that means we'll be focusing on them because I want more character work and less puzzle box.

    "Host Craig Mazin sits down with Watchmen writer and executive producer Damon Lindelof to talk about episodes one, two, and three. Lindelof and Mazin dive into the origin of the series and its complex portrayal of race in America. They also dig into world building, uncover easter eggs, and discuss new and legacy characters. Make sure to watch the first three episodes of Watchmen to avoid spoilers. The next episode of this podcast comes out after episode six of the series."


    j0n1c4Elisamanhattnik
  • JaimieT said:I think Ozy is on Mars and he's sending a guy out into space, and that the horizon is an optical illusion.
    Yeah, I think Veidt is in some sort of bottle or simulation with his Game Warden captor - being under Dr. Manhattan's control on Mars makes sense.  
    Elisa
  • Was Keene leaning into the accent during that presser? Why?
  • Got some Nora/Erika vibes during the Sarcophagus scene. Im hoping we get more. More please Lindelof!
    MurderbearElisamanhattnikJanel
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    adobo1148 said:
    Was Keene leaning into the accent during that presser? Why?
    I noticed that too. Gotta feel down home and folksy, just like all you folks at home watching the news.
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited November 2019
    @pavlovsbell said:
    I don't doubt that some people who watched The Leftovers perhaps reexamined their feelings about Lost, but given that maybe three dozen people watched TL, I don't think that's a huge boost. I'm kidding, three dozen is the number of people who watched Rectify. I think distance and time has benefited Lost, and there is a new generation who doesn't have that baggage. There has been a LOST resurgence recently with youtube reactors and podcasts -- Storm of Spoilers has been doing a rewatch with a separate spoiler section and guests (some from the show). They had Damon on for the S1 finale.
    @JaimieT said:
    I think the hate for LOST has been tempered by most of the fans moving on? The Leftovers just didn't have that big of an audience. All of the LOST fans I know didn't watch The Leftovers... anecdotal. (And I didn't get past 4 episodes of LOST.)

    Both good points!

    What prompted my question was seeing a youtube video (I can't find it now...I fell down a youtube rabbit hole the other day and can't find my way back to it!) about the 'visual language' of Damon Lindelof and one of the points made was that LOST broke with network television convention, that made it an unexpected sensation but also doomed to fail - you can't start with a weird/unusual story while hoping for a cult following, have the show become a phenomenon and end it in a safe way that will make a massive audience happy while staying true to your original vision. The video compared LOST to Nirvana...and band with no thought of becoming massive, suddenly thrust into the spotlight and resenting a lot of the expectations that came along with being in the spotlight.

    The main point though was that the praise heaped on The Leftovers caused a critical (if not public) re-thinking of LOST, and pointed to the re-watches, the podcasts, the Youtube analysis etc that have popped up about LOST after the Leftovers ended.

    Another article that I read opined that the Leftovers taught audiences how to watch and follow a Lindelof show and speculated that people would rewatch LOST with a post-Leftovers framing device reference point.

    True or not, it's an interesting idea.  I'd like to find someone who didn't like LOST, loved the Leftovers and then re-watched LOST to see if the experience of watching the Leftovers changed their view of LOST.


    PS - Rectify was great!

    pavlovsbell
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited November 2019
    (I can't find it now...I fell down a youtube rabbit hole the other day and can't find my way back to it!) 

    There's a "history" section of YouTube where you can see all your watched videos, btw. You can also search among them.

    I saw the Rectify pilot at least. ;)
    CretanBull
  • JaimieT said:
    (I can't find it now...I fell down a youtube rabbit hole the other day and can't find my way back to it!) 

    There's a "history" section of YouTube where you can see all your watched videos, btw. You can also search among them.

    I saw the Rectify pilot at least. ;)
    Neat!  I'll have to look through my history when I get home!

  • adobo1148 said:
    Was Keene leaning into the accent during that presser? Why?
    I noticed that too. Gotta feel down home and folksy, just like all you folks at home watching the news.
    Both women are so damn formidable. Its so wonderful because for a long time the only roles Jean Smart and Regina King could get criminally underused their abilities. 
    ElisaMurderbearmanhattniksassyfontaineJaimieT
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    edited November 2019
    JaimieT said:
    Overall thoughts I didn't mention yet: 

    • I don't care if Bob Benson is a racist. I just want him to settle down with a nice man and Christina Hendricks can buy them a Chevy as a wedding gift.
    • I think Ozy is on Mars and he's sending a guy out into space, and that the horizon is an optical illusion.
    • My love for Jeremy Irons is like a raging sun and I will cherish these scenes until the day I die. But at the moment they are fucking obnoxious.
    • I am loving the deification of Doctor Manhattan. Lindelof asks big life questions and it just occurred to me that of course you will want to play with a god, as a writer, when you do that. More absentee god trauma, a la absentee father trauma!
    • Laurie Blake is life goals.
    I read Sepinwall's review, and he half-joked that Lindelof hired Jeremy Irons for a Looney Tunes comic relief side story, and that's basically what Lindelof says in the podcast (except also that everything will converge). 

    After thinking about the episode more, I really appreciated the structure and writing of it. I didn't know that the 'messing up the joke' is a comedy trope. I love the idea of Laurie talking to God in a futuristic phone booth that is both a confessional (with her serving up some damning invective) and also another giant blue dick.

    Laurie, despite her "I see you" canniness, is like so many Lindelof characters and is haunted by the past. Her extended joke set up the book Laurie as being unnoticed because of the men in her life -- not purposefully but by the way she was defined by her relationships and objectified in the book. But she's still hung up on Jon, and she's working to get Dan out. That's not a criticism. I'm curious to see how she develops, and how close she and Angela are going to become. The uncaring or absent god is a prevalent theme in Lindelof's work. And absentee father, yeah -- she took her father's surname. Yikes. I guess she really didn't want to become like her mother, so she became like father. I hope not too much. 

    Introducing Laurie as an outsider who is also an insider is a cool way to have someone else comment on the fascist tactics the cops are using, but she also terrorized a bank of civilians to catch a Batman-type vigilante and shot him (although super bad FBI agents for not covering the exit). I love that she's smart and competent, but not infallible.

    Finally, who doesn't love a dismissive grammar correction?


    ElisacdrivesassyfontaineRyanReesemanJaimieTmanhattnik
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    Ozy is in a force-field bubble on Mars. Poor guy in the DIY spacesuit didn’t have to be launched — just step over a line into the native Mars environment, freeze solid, and have Ozy reel him back in. 
    ElisarhcoopJaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Ozy is in a force-field bubble on Mars. Poor guy in the DIY spacesuit didn’t have to be launched — just step over a line into the native Mars environment, freeze solid, and have Ozy reel him back in. 

    which just makes me think of 


    manhattnik
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @pavlovsbell - I am usually all over Sepinwall's review and I'd normally be with the new podcast, but I think I'm just fatigued. If the show starts moving I'll switch back. (I respect your enjoyment of it.) 
    manhattnikpavlovsbell
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    I do feel that it’s enough setup. Stuff has to start happening. 
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    @pavlovsbell, I don’t think there were actually any civilians in the bank at all. 
    pavlovsbellsassyfontaineElisaKillert0ast
  • edited November 2019
    deleted
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    @manhattnik, you're most likely correct. I did notice most of the customers displaying badges, except the teller that Laurie "held up." He seemed genuinely scared and confused the entire time. It was a poorly-designed operation, but perhaps it was a deliberate mirror to the AHS Hooded Justice scene with HJ crashing through the window to very violently stop a robbery. Laurie shoots Discount Batman, propelling him through the glass door. I dunno, just spitballing here.

    @JaimieT, I'm going to stick with it until I'm not interested enough to. I'm definitely not interested in all the theorizing and puzzle solving, so I tune that out. I'm not watching any current dramas, and I am very interested in where they are going with the overall story of racism and white supremacy.  
    JaimieTmanhattnik
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @pavlovsbell Yeah, I am in it for the racism angle. I'm glad it's being done and I'm glad it's being done in one of the "remakes" so it has heft.
    sassyfontainepavlovsbell
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    I am someone who never watched Lost, heard it was terrible, avoided anything Lindelof,  kept hearing on BM how amazing Leftovers was, and decided to watch. Also GoT was over and I was missing J&A. 

    Loved Leftovers! Top 5 for sure. And was thrilled to hear Lindelof was doing Watchman. There have been a lot of explain-y words already, so I’m keeping it simple. I 100% enjoy this show. I expect it to continue getting better and deliver a great final episode. 

    @CretanBull I am thinking of watching Lost. Will be the first time. I’ll let you know what I think. 
    CretanBullKillert0astpavlovsbell
  • I am thinking of watching Lost. Will be the first time. I’ll let you know what I think. 
    You will probably enjoy it because it is well acted and the individual shows are well written.  You have the extra bonus of knowing going in the problems.

    I hated it at the time because I expected the show's mysteries to mean something and found out at the end that 98% meant nothing. 

    Lindelof learned from his mistakes and the good stuff he's done since Lost doesn't erase those mistakes he made.

    Yes, I'm still a little bitter. Lost was the 1st show to hurt me. I'm tougher now.
    Teresa from Concord
  • Is everyone reading along with the Peteypedia? Since I haven't, a lot of the Judd discussion went over my head. I wonder how much of this will make it into the show. It seems like it's more than just supplemental color at this point.
  • Humanity needs humanity. The combination of light and dark. Time is ticking before the world, that world is destructed. Manhattan needs Veidt to show him the way. His power is not enough. Veidt is frustrated because he really cares and he might fail. Virtual machines in multiple instances are very useful.
    sassyfontaine
  • Is everyone reading along with the Peteypedia? Since I haven't, a lot of the Judd discussion went over my head. I wonder how much of this will make it into the show. It seems like it's more than just supplemental color at this point.
    I'm in Canada and I'd love to read the Peteypedia stuff but the HBO website keeps redirecting me to the Canadian site where I cant seem to find the Petey Files. Anyone able to help me with this? I'm not very well versed in VPNs, wold that be a thing? Are there free ones? Help! I wanna read all the things!
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Is everyone reading along with the Peteypedia? Since I haven't, a lot of the Judd discussion went over my head. I wonder how much of this will make it into the show. It seems like it's more than just supplemental color at this point.
    I'm in Canada and I'd love to read the Peteypedia stuff but the HBO website keeps redirecting me to the Canadian site where I cant seem to find the Petey Files. Anyone able to help me with this? I'm not very well versed in VPNs, wold that be a thing? Are there free ones? Help! I wanna read all the things!

    A VPN should work. Find a free trial and point yourself to the US. 
    sassyfontaine
  • Is everyone reading along with the Peteypedia? Since I haven't, a lot of the Judd discussion went over my head. I wonder how much of this will make it into the show. It seems like it's more than just supplemental color at this point.
    I'm in Canada and I'd love to read the Peteypedia stuff but the HBO website keeps redirecting me to the Canadian site where I cant seem to find the Petey Files. Anyone able to help me with this? I'm not very well versed in VPNs, wold that be a thing? Are there free ones? Help! I wanna read all the things!
    JaimieT said:
    Is everyone reading along with the Peteypedia? Since I haven't, a lot of the Judd discussion went over my head. I wonder how much of this will make it into the show. It seems like it's more than just supplemental color at this point.
    I'm in Canada and I'd love to read the Peteypedia stuff but the HBO website keeps redirecting me to the Canadian site where I cant seem to find the Petey Files. Anyone able to help me with this? I'm not very well versed in VPNs, wold that be a thing? Are there free ones? Help! I wanna read all the things!

    A VPN should work. Find a free trial and point yourself to the US. 
    Yup, I've had to use a VPN to see it.  I regularly use a VPN so it wasn't a big deal for me, but as @JaimieT said you can find free trials.  Tunnel Bear gives you a certain amount of bandwidth for free each month..if you only use it to read the Peteypedia it should be all you need.
    sassyfontaine
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    Is everyone reading along with the Peteypedia? Since I haven't, a lot of the Judd discussion went over my head. I wonder how much of this will make it into the show. It seems like it's more than just supplemental color at this point.
    I'm in Canada and I'd love to read the Peteypedia stuff but the HBO website keeps redirecting me to the Canadian site where I cant seem to find the Petey Files. Anyone able to help me with this? I'm not very well versed in VPNs, wold that be a thing? Are there free ones? Help! I wanna read all the things!
    The easiest way is to just use a different browser. When you go to hbo.com it'll ask you if you want to switch to Crave, if you switch to Crave it'll always switch you unless you delete your cookies. But if you click on stay on hbo.com, you can stay on hbo.com. This setting is saved in your browser, so it's extremely simple unless you've already done the switch to Crave on multiple browsers.
    sassyfontaine
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