107 - An Almost Religious Awe

13

Comments

  • Ok dude yeah, but you’re missing the point that it’s REALLY weird.
    DoubleA_RonElisa
  • MrXMrX CO
    edited December 2019
    I thought the elephant’s function in the actual story was as a repository for the memories that Trieu is interested in storing and probably eventually manipulating or altering people with. 

    Elephants are the AWS of the memory archiving & processing world.
    gjames80Doctor_NickSchlupp
  • I think the last few Instant Takes show that maybe it is not a good format for certain types of shows. I feel like the pressure of having to immediately comment on these episodes moments right after watching it for the first time is not letting the guys have a proper first watch. The need to constantly analyze every single scene of the show does not allow for the freedom of just letting the show wash over you.

    Oh, and apparently now it's not enough to be constantly banging on Lost legacy, but now they are even trying to imply that the Hatch reveal was not a great moment of television?

    ElisarkcrawfMichaelVCassidysassyfontaine
  • j0n1c4 said:
    I think the last few Instant Takes show that maybe it is not a good format for certain types of shows. I feel like the pressure of having to immediately comment on these episodes moments right after watching it for the first time is not letting the guys have a proper first watch. The need to constantly analyze every single scene of the show does not allow for the freedom of just letting the show wash over you.

    Oh, and apparently now it's not enough to be constantly banging on Lost legacy, but now they are even trying to imply that the Hatch reveal was not a great moment of television?

    I think that's the point of the instant takes though, to get that instant gut-reaction recorded before they have time to really think about and process their thoughts.  IMO the contrast between the instant takes and their thoughts after they've had a chance to do multiple watches and spend a few days thinking things through is what makes the totality of their analysis interesting.
    RyanReesemanElisaBroRad33
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Watchmen viewers: why is everything so weird?
    Twin Peaks The Return Viewers: oh, you children of summer
    cdriveZsa004ElisaCretanBullgjames80rkcrawfmanhattniksassyfontaineJamesKillert0ast
  • 7th K and Lady Trieu are in this together right? If not that, then there has to be something going on here that involves Lady T being sinister. I don’t see how it can be as simple as ‘Lady T is trying to stop the 7th K’.

    Two main reasons:
    1) How else would they have the ‘portal’ technology?
    2) If Lady T wanted to squash their plan, why the fuck would building a huge ass inter dimensional clock be the best way to go about it? You’re literally a trillionaire - hire some hitmen, off the 7th K, and be done with it.
    rkcrawf
  • edited December 2019
    I will never understand people who have problems with an amount of ambiguity. If I wanted spoon fed answers I would watch CBS. Also, so many answers in this episode while still intriguing with mystery. Perfect in my view
    Yes but WHO IS LUBE MAN?  Did he die in the sewer?  There are critical mysteries here!  Haha

    Edit: in seriousness I’m thinking at this point, considering JJ is on record of this being a one season and done series, this may be an epilogue to bring Manhattans character arc to a close. He stops caring about humanity, then something gets him to change his mind to the point he decides to return and lock away his memory to spend his life (eternity?) with humans again. What does this say about “Gods” and what does it say about humans?  Meanwhile Veidt is expelled to another planet away from humans when he did the unthinkable to save them. The story has admittedly been a little all over the place but that’s where I see this going in the end, considering two episodes left. 

    The next time on me on looks like it might expand on how this happened with Angela. This is very Losty and Leftovers-ey in my opinion (I liked both)
    ElisaRyanReesemansassyfontaine
  • edited December 2019
    So as I was watching I noticed that Angela’s dads last name was Abar. When the people at Trieu refered to her husband as “Cal Abar” I immediately wondered why Cal would have her last name and thought maybe it was a production oversight or they’re just a really progressive couple.  Guess it’s because Angela gave him her name. 
    CretanBullDoctor_NickRyanReesemanElisa
  • Guess Lady Trieu didn't need to be a super genius to figure out something was real strange about Cal.

    gjames80 said:
    So as I was watching I noticed that Angela’s dads last name was Abar. When the people at Trieu refered to her husband as “Cal Abar” I immediately wondered why Cal would have her last name and thought maybe it was a production oversight or they’re just a really progressive couple.  Guess it’s because Angela gave him her name. 

  • gjames80 said:
    So as I was watching I noticed that Angela’s dads last name was Abar. When the people at Trieu refered to her husband as “Cal Abar” I immediately wondered why Cal would have her last name and thought maybe it was a production oversight or they’re just a really progressive couple.  Guess it’s because Angela gave him her name. 
    Yep, it’s a very similar situation to one that happened on the Netflix show Dark.
    Elisa
  • BroRad33 said:

    So my Girlfriend who hasn't read the comics, seen the movie, and hasn't seen the first 5 episodes, watched last weeks episode with me, and then this weeks and she was enthralled. I mean she has no idea whats going on, but at one point I accidently changed the channel and she yell at me, and has demanded to watch the next episode with me, so that has to say something good about the show on a fundamental story sense.

    I liked the episode, but I just have a bad feeling the ending will leave more questions, which will be fine if they push for a second season, even if its years later.

    Also, do you think Dr. M would have told Angela about her grandfather... surely he knew.

    Accidentally change the channel again and she may be your ex-girlfriend. 
    BroRad33
  • Jim's take just really bummed me out and made me want to stop listening to the podcast :/
    MichaelVCassidyj0n1c4Ashley
  • My prediction: the elephant will never be mentioned or spoken of again. It will forever be the elephant in the room...

    gjames80
  • MichaelVCassidyMichaelVCassidy Harrisburg, Pa
    edited December 2019
    nstinson said:
    Jim's take just really bummed me out and made me want to stop listening to the podcast :/
    I felt kind of similar. I felt a high coming off that episode akin to walkabout or international assassin, and was a bit bummed to hear the flippant dismissal of most of the episode from jim. There even seemed to be glee or excitement to do so just because the episode was very lost-like (as if the majority of people think that's a bad thing - which is far from true)  I will say again, the way that A.ron has reacted to The Leftovers finales and the True Detective finales always made me think he would actually really like how Lost ended. It's a shame he let's a largely false narrative color his feelings about it before watching for himself But that's a conversation for anotha life, brotha.  

    A quick watchmen search on Twitter after the instacast confirmed that I wasn't alone in my love for this episode. In fact it seemed about 98% almost religious awe.  Coming in to this forum there was more of the dislike. Which is all well and good . It was just a bummer to hear jim as the first reaction I heard. Especially with the unnecessary equating of Lost to something bad with a wry smile and sarcastic glee to go with it like its majority opinion. 

    The writing and the acting of the trap door seen was light hearted and funny to me. The show knew it was ridiculous and almost laughed at itself, both when the button s failed and the drop only went part way. It was self aware and funny to me. If ijuds wife would have just straight up pushed a button and Laurie fell Will Farrell style, I would have found it dumb.  But how they did it was funny to me.

    The elephant in the room made me laugh out loud and also say, "what the hell." And saying what the hell is my favorite part of Lindelof's writing. Whether its Kevin drinking poison and the old man shooting himself or it's some dude doing a spin class in an unknown space to "make your own kind of music" to open a season. What the hell Lindelof is my favorite Lindelof and this episode had it many times. Whether it pays off or not I don't care. The thrill of the rollercoaster is at the top of the hill when you anticipate what comes next, not when the breaks engage 



    Elisaj0n1c4sassyfontaineOpusWhogjames80
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited December 2019
    Thing is, having been down the Lindelof road more than once, I went into this thing expecting some great character moments, interesting filming, an intriguing premise and a boatload of questions that never did have any answers. 

    They may well stick this ending. Or not. Show already succeeds for me just with Hooded Justice's origin. That piece of story is the meanest, baddest, prettiest mo fo low down round this town and I'll love it forever.

    That said, I hope the conclusion hangs together, but if you told me in issue #1 of Watchmen that it's all about Adrian Veidt and his giant hoax alien squid invasion Thanos plot, I'd probably call that pretty weird for a superhero murder mystery noir that only really has one superhero in it.
    MichaelVCassidyElisaAshleysassyfontaine
  • Lindelof to THR

    Considering episode seven's ending, it would appear we have some explaining to do," Lindelof tells The Hollywood Reporter about the ending of "An Almost Religious Awe," in a quick interview conducted over e-mail. "I'm answering these questions before it airs, but if I were watching the show, I'd be starting to panic that we can't possibly bring this all together in just two more episodes. So, uh…don't panic?" 
    sassyfontaine
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Lindelof to THR

    Considering episode seven's ending, it would appear we have some explaining to do," Lindelof tells The Hollywood Reporter about the ending of "An Almost Religious Awe," in a quick interview conducted over e-mail. "I'm answering these questions before it airs, but if I were watching the show, I'd be starting to panic that we can't possibly bring this all together in just two more episodes. So, uh…don't panic?" 
    "This time, it's clams. Racist space clams. Ku Klux clams."
    LordByawookieeRyanReesemansassyfontainegjames80
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited December 2019
    lmwright said:
    So why did the Prosecutor wink at Ozy at the end of her closing argument?
    I think there's a possibility that he's stuck in a prison of his own making or it's some kind of self-imposed exile or retirement. Or Veidt is also a clone. Her opening line was weird. "From the moment the accused pulls us from the water to the moment he inevitably slaughters us, we are governed by one law. A law imbued to us by our creator when he gifted us with life and this glorious paradise in which to live it. Thou shalt not leave." She doesn't include Veidt in this. Is he their creator? Are they sentient when they're still lake babies? Or does Veidt give them life and a glorious paradise to live in when he pulls them from the lake?

    I also don't think he's been there nearly as long as the show makes it appear. It sure would be weird for that trial to take a year, and why would he specifically mention it? If Veidt actually is on Europa, both a day and a year last approximately 3.5 Earth days. A 3.5-day trial seems far more likely, especially when you consider she barely said anything in her closing remarks. If only 3.5 days have actually passed between times that we see Veidt, his timeline probably matches up pretty closely with the timeline of the rest of the show.
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    nstinson said:
    Jim's take just really bummed me out and made me want to stop listening to the podcast :/
    It's almost always beneficial in life to listen to opinions that oppose your own.
    MichaelVCassidygguenotBloodyTacoBroRad33
  • nstinson said:
    Jim's take just really bummed me out and made me want to stop listening to the podcast :/
    0-100
  • I really wasn't impressed with the trial.  I think they could have thought of more productive things to do with Ozymandias.  
    sassyfontaine
  • The quote function fucking sucks, so I just wanted to say that I hard agree with @Hunkulese when it comes to low-stakes things like entertainment.
  • The quote function fucking sucks, so I just wanted to say that I hard agree with @Hunkulese when it comes to low-stakes things like entertainment.
  • The quote function fucking sucks, so I just wanted to say that I hard agree with @Hunkulese when it comes to low-stakes things like entertainment.
    Yeah the forums have been having some issues lately.  A. Ron seemed to know about it from a response in the great forum blackout of 2019 thread.
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    The quote function fucking sucks, so I just wanted to say that I hard agree with @Hunkulese when it comes to low-stakes things like entertainment.
    I think it's actually more important to listen to opposing opinions for high-stakes things. Unless, of course, it's just someone clearly being a bigot or something like that. Tune those folks out.
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    All right, I'm not claiming to have any inside information and I haven't seen any spoilers, so remember, you heard it here first: space cake. Just...just space cake.
    Elisa
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    I'm having a difficult time with this podcast. Twenty-eight minutes in, and the guys dismissed the elephant as something just cutesy that the writers did. Elephants were a recurring motif in ep. 4, when Lady Trieu made her entrance:

    1. Her name, which we know from Peteypedia that she chose herself (like an origin story). The historical Lady Trieu purportedly rode an elephant into battle to liberate her country from Chinese occupation.
    2. The Trieu logo
    3. The hourglass
    4. The tea set

    "Elephants never forget" is not just an aphorism. There is a lot of fascinating science regarding elephants and memory, advanced cognitive function, self-awareness, empathy, compassion, altruism, family devotion, grief, etc. Have you ever seen an elephant cry? They cry actual tears. All of these play into the themes of show, and the neuroscience of elephants is particularly relevant to Lady Trieu and whatever it is that she's doing with memories and supposedly "saving fucking humanity." It may not be literally represented in the next two episodes, but I do think it's more than the writers just being cutesy. 




    AshleyRyanReesemanMichaelVCassidyduncanpowersElisaOpusWhoChinaski
  • Clearly she likes elephants. But I've seen humans cry. We're also pretty advanced in terms of memory, cognitive function, empathy, compassion, etc. What makes an elephant special for this procedure or the metaphor? It's big?

    I haven't seen anyone connect a satisfying number of dots on this. Everyone just says "and as you know, an elephant never forgets..." That's not satisfying to me.
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    "It's big?"

    Well, perhaps size does matter in this case. If the amount of cerebrospinal fluid needed to flush Nostalgia is massive, then a massive host is required. Why doesn't Trieu use a synthetic procedure? I have no idea. She is nothing if not dramatic. Is the elephant even a natural elephant (a "natural host") or a clone? Does Trieu see a difference between the two? Again, I have no idea. She seems to think Bian is her mother (once she has all of her memories), but what makes a person a person?

    Is Trieu only harvesting Will's memories from Angela, or is she also harvesting Angela's own memories? I'm inclined to think both.
    Elisa
  • Jim said:
    Clearly she likes elephants. But I've seen humans cry. We're also pretty advanced in terms of memory, cognitive function, empathy, compassion, etc. What makes an elephant special for this procedure or the metaphor? It's big?

    I haven't seen anyone connect a satisfying number of dots on this. Everyone just says "and as you know, an elephant never forgets..." That's not satisfying to me.

    "It's big?"

    Well, perhaps size does matter in this case. If the amount of cerebrospinal fluid needed to flush Nostalgia is massive, then a massive host is required. Why doesn't Trieu use a synthetic procedure? I have no idea. She is nothing if not dramatic. Is the elephant even a natural elephant (a "natural host") or a clone? Does Trieu see a difference between the two? Again, I have no idea. She seems to think Bian is her mother (once she has all of her memories), but what makes a person a person?

    Is Trieu only harvesting Will's memories from Angela, or is she also harvesting Angela's own memories? I'm inclined to think both.


    Perhaps for the Nostalgia dialysis she needs a host that has advanced cognition capabilities (especially for memory and emotion) - like an elephant - so it can absorb the memories from a human mind, but the complexity of a full human psyche in the host would be too much for the process and overload Angela. Plus as @pavlovsbell said the laid the groundwork for this being something symbolically important to Lady Trieu.
    pavlovsbellElisa
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