THE BOYS Season 2 (Spoilers)
Super excited to see where this story goes
https://tvline.com/2020/06/26/the-boys-season-2-premiere-date-amazon/
Is this the first time that Prime Video has released a season week by week? This is also getting me more hopeful about a possible week-by-week Expanse S5 release!
https://tvline.com/2020/06/26/the-boys-season-2-premiere-date-amazon/
Is this the first time that Prime Video has released a season week by week? This is also getting me more hopeful about a possible week-by-week Expanse S5 release!
Comments
Man, that poor whale. I got a good laugh out of it.
I'm liking it so far, as well as I liked the first season. Having just come off of Umbrella Academy's second season, though, I think I prefer UA. It doesn't take itself as seriously, has more humor and much MUCH better music! (Unless you're a huge Billy Joel fan, obviously.)
I do wish I hadn't listened to the guys' pre-season coverage before I watched as due to some of the comments they made, I kept waiting for the shoe to drop with Stormfront. I should have expected that anyway given this show, but the first two episodes she doesn't really give much away besides being unwilling to put up with the usual bullshit, which you might expect from a woman with her insane superpowers living in our patriarchy.
But then we hit the end of episode 3 and... well, that's that shoe dropping. I do like the idea of both Kimiko and Homelander staring daggers at her by the end. Given the previews from the season,
Homelander and Kimiko teaming up in some uneasy alliance at some point to end Stormfront would be fascinating. Or maybe Homelander putting Stormfront in a position so that Kimiko could finish the job. Though with this show, I don't expect anything quite as straightforward.
I do see why the guys were somewhat exasperated with Hughie's purpose on this team. At the end of the first episode, I was ready to dismiss the kid, too. I feel like the two subsequent episodes showed Mother's Milk and Frenchie sympathizing this him a bit more, though, and not as satisfied with Billy's wrecking ball tactics. Maybe Hughie is the one that will keep Billy grounded. Billy's certainly the the one on the team who seems to need a force like that the most.
There are some interesting bits over the three episodes. Homelander trying to impart lessons on Ryan was entertaining. His "we are gods" speech reminded me of Five For Fighting's "Superman". Also, it occurred to me when Ryan lashes out at Homelander that Becca may be trying and may ultimately succeed in raising this universe's equivalent of Superman. Jim and A,Ron wondered who could possibly stop Homelander. Maybe it's the version of Homelander that's raised by a good, caring parent, which is essentially the story of Superman. I'm sure anyone who's read the comic is laughing their ass off at my speculations.
Got some vibes from the Boom! Studios comic Irredeemable when Homelander reveals to Becca he'd listened in on her when she went to visit the facility to shout at Dr. Park. Turns out The Boys' publication preceded Irredeemable by three years, though.
I'm not entirely sure how seriously we're supposed to take Edgar. On one hand, it's Giancarlo Esposito and he always seems like a man who is in complete control of a situation, unless he happens to be face to face with an actual bomb. On the other, does he really expect Ashley to keep the "infants" in line?
I do wonder if Edgar specifically looks for complete monsters when adding members to the Seven. Did he have any part in Starlight's addition to the team?
I did like A-Train's line about money. Made me think of my own privilege when judging the questionable actions fictional characters take.
I don't know how I feel about this particular world being introduced to the term "supervillain". Felt a bit like when Honest Trailers did a montage of all of The Walking Dead's non-zombie terms.
I do wonder where the story will ultimately take Maeve and A-Train, maybe even the Deep if he stops being a joke of a character. All are conflicted in some way, all damaged or fearful to some extent by Homelander's sociopathy. That A-Train chose not to betray Starlight is interesting. That scene made it seem like there might be something more there than simple self preservation.
Fun start to the season. They have me hooked again!
Not sure if this link is working, but apparently the show is getting great critical ratings, but crappy fan rating because people are so mad about the weekly release schedule. I don't mind it either way, kind of actually like the weekly release. especially for podcast lovers. Its a shame this is a thing, people really want that full season dump at once.
Thoughts on politics in The Boys: Season 1 explored religion with evangelical Christianity, specifically the way that Homelander commodified it for his own ends. Season 2 is exploring the religion of social justice. Stormfront is stirring the pot, intensifying a desire (which any good religion does!), and using it to her advantage. I'm glad to have a narrative in the USA in 2020 that shows how even social justice can be a bullshit game the powerful are playing with us, on the same level as evangelical Christianity. I wonder which one will win? My money's not on Stormfront...
And this is so fresh; it's wonderful. The Scientology stuff is interesting, but it's not fresh and needed like watching someone armor themselves in left-wing ideas. Bra-fucking-vo.
Thoughts on Homelander: My favorite character. Whoever the writer of this is (whether it's the comic book writer or some amalgam of the show writers and him) we are on the saaaaame fucking wavelength of what we find interesting. The first novel I wrote had a lot of this stuff: a god having a kid with a human, and the way the aspirational impotents barter power with their self-involved rulers who are immune from any harm. Oh, it's good shit. I like seeing Starlight starting to realize that we're all alone, and I'm genuinely interested to see how the show resolves that, since I think that's a pretty infallible position to hold. She and Homelander seem agreed there; but he's thought that for all of his life.
Thoughts on The Boys as art: This show is one of the few great shows on TV (Succession is another). It's such a true show; it speaks the truth. And I think art is the only reliable place to find truth in a capitalist society. Many shows are going for a big buck, but you can spot those because they don't resonate. Truth in entertainment is rewarded by capitalism; it can have a direct correlation with how much money something makes, and that's not the case with politics, religion, or even some forms of education, where there are too many other parties interested in paying money to influence it. It's not a perfect system (art as the truth-teller) but those who seek, find. And that's good enough for me.
Favorite moments: Them singing in the car. Mother's Milk bonding with Starlight. Any scene with Homelander trying to find happiness -- it's a hard world for someone as isolated as that! If only someone could teach him a lesson in how to be a father... his one shot at companionship.
Spoilers for episode 4.
I didn't like her until this episode. I thought she was too perfect; her character seemed to do everything right, and every time anyone came at her, she had a perfect way to shut them down. Knowing she's 70-something, it all makes sense. A woman that old would act exactly like this. They would seem socially unassailable. They would seem oddly self-composed and strong (odd because of her age appearance).
Like how Aragorn is really good at fighting at 80, she's really good at navigating social situations, and at the ripe age of 70-something she's decided she wants to dominate.
It's a great counter for Homelander, who is terrible in social situations but physically dominant. She has just enough power that he can't accidentally kill her; just enough power for him to notice her, but the war will be fought in an arena he's only beginning to realize exists.
It's very man v. woman, I dig it.
Yeah, seems that this is true for Stormfront and the Vought company as a whole. An organization with roots in Nazi Germany that covered up racist murder in the mid-20th century and has built the media empire we see on the show would also learn to adapt its tactics as the world changes.
It does make me wonder just how involved Edgar is with Stormfront's plan. Vought's obviously protected her before and Edgar got her on the team, but are they collaborating on whatever larger plan she has, or was he content with getting her on the Seven and doing whatever she was going to do, knowing that it would likely benefit Vought? It'll be interesting to see if the company is deeply involved or if pairing Stormfront with Homelander makes the Supes even harder to control and it blows up in Edgar's face.
On a scale of 1 - 10, how bad is a murder? And how bad is a racist murder?
So, I haven't seen season 1 since it aired and I don't remember Vought having roots in Nazi Germany. But I'm interested to see just how much any of the Nazi stuff will become text, as opposed to subtext. Maybe "Nazi" already has been mentioned explicitly. But with a black man at Vought's helm -- a black man as the embodiment of Vought -- I'm skeptical about any statement being made of Vought's racism. Certainly we could see that (black people are racist too!) but it's a more nuanced take in 2020, and there hasn't been enough screen time to set it up well.
A statement being made about eugenics via the Nazis? It's already done. Not racism though. Unless you're the type of person that believes a racist murder is extra-bad, eugenics is bad enough.
Weird coincidence, the novel I'm working on has a Edgar-type character training a replacement for himself who is a Stormfront-type character -- someone who has bought into Leftist rhetoric but is using it to build power for herself. If I may project my plotline onto The Boys... it's possible Edgar doesn't give a fuck what Stormfront's views are; her views are irrelevant to her purpose. Her purpose, IMO, is to distract Homelander so he doesn't go projecting his insecurities onto something actually important. She's a chew toy.
I take it back -- Stormfront was probably in Nazi Germany. She's probably from there. So even if the eugenics/Nazi connection has been made, there's more to be mined there since she has her own ties to Nazism outside of Vought.
But I have no idea where the show will go with that. It depends on whether we're doing historically accurate Nazi Germany or the pop culture understanding of Nazi Germany. The show is pretty smart, so it's not beyond the pale to say it's the former -- but it's prolllly the latter. Maybe a blend?
It's also strange that what we now know is a basically a racist Nazi Germany based organization has a Black Guy as the head of their organization. Unless that is intention to throw people off, so they can say "We're not racists, we have a black CEO". But then that kind of contradicts the power and confidence that Gus Fring carries. If he was just a figure head, that wouldn't explain his level of confidence.
There's definitely a lot more to Stormfront than we know at this point. How has she been around for so long? (she used to be Liberty back in the 60s). Is she in cahoots with Edgar? Seems strange seeing as how the actor is half-black. Does she have a handler? Is there some larger power at play above Edgar?
Anyway, as a side note, I think they are setting up Black Noir to defect and join the Boys. They set this up with him sobbing at the "Superheros are made, not born" news, and now he is very intent on finding Butcher. Can't wait to learn more about Black Noir, he's been great comic relief but his character development could go so many ways.
I am still holding out that Storm Front is the daughter of Liberty, and not actually Liberty. I think that makes more sense and would make for an interesting story. Perhaps little Ryan is the one to take her out? Spawn vs Spawn.
Can't wait for the next episode. I'm so glad this season wasn't dropped all at once. I actually like the anticipation of waiting a week and guessing what will happen. IMO I thinking dropping a series all at once is dumb. Why not just make it a movie?
Yeah, that's what I mean by pop history. The Nazis weren't anti-black, they were anti-Jew — and we don't know how pervasive in the society even that was. If the Nazis were anti-black, they weren't anymore than the rest of the world; it didn't define them.
I'm hoping all this racism stuff is overblown. There has been a massive uptick of "anti-racism" rhetoric lately (the racist theories from Robin DiAngelo and Ibram X. Kendi), and while I'm certain that will trickle into future artistic endeavors, I'd be astonished if The Boys is somehow prescient.
Also, the point-of-view of The Boys has always felt apolitical to me. But, this seems to be the primary thing anyone is talking about! I'm with @Teresa from Concord in being very interested in the mystery around Black Noir. I'm also more interested in (1) what will happen with Starlight and Hughie, (2) what will happen with Homelander's kid and Butcher. These resonate more for me.
Thought about the industry and the internet: I know the lowest-common-denominator questions like "What are Stormfront's origins?" are easiest for the internet to grab onto. I wonder if this is why we see an uptick in shows that seem to only have mysteries like this as the driving force, like Watchmen. (Sorry, didn't love Watchmen, not enough solid ground.) And LOST, Westworld, and others I'm not interested in. Would the mystery box genre exist without the internet? I doubt it.
I know this has been discussed before, and widely, but I guess I'm specifically interested in how the internet might amplify mystery-box aspects of regular, straightforward storytelling. Please no.
I do not write this to derail the thread. I much prefer the comments that talk specifically about the show and enjoy less the personal political views. Just a quick FYI because history is important even though it was a long time ago.
When critiquing a show, there's an aspect where it's as if you're asking others, "Are you seeing what I'm seeing?" and I'm describing the way I might be seeing something differently. This ultimately promotes understanding.
My take on portrayals of Nazis is pretty simple - I'm not supposed to like them. I don't need the portrayal to be perfect.