Does nobody see the irony here? Maybe @Redrum0376 is never coming back to read this thread. Maybe they just hurled a bomb in here out of anger with no intention to discuss their grievance. Maybe the post was made in bad faith. They aren't the first one to do this, and they won't be the last. Am I the only one who can take their post in good faith and engage with that criticism? I get that you're all uncomfortable with the conversation, but the behavior in this thread is a perfect illustration of exactly what I said above. It's a dog pile. You are definitely not required to debate @Redrum0376's position here just because you disagree with it, but that doesn't mean you should all dismiss it with ass-eating syrup memes.
I'll Stan for BM all day long. I love the content, and I love the added value I get with that. Today, I am very disappointed in the community. (@Hatorian excluded, you responded in good faith.)
This thread starts off with a gripe. One that on it's face seems inflammatory and divisive. The first 2 responses are FORUM MODERATORS immediately starting in with jokes. Maybe your intent was to diffuse the situation, but this thread has completely devolved in to bullying. Engage with the topic or let the thread die, I don't care. Just don't hijack it and turn somebodies hurt into a joke.
I’ll admit I started out with a joke but I did in fact immediately follow this up by informing the poster that Aron and Jim were very likely to hash it out with them about their decisions on why politics had been moved off the forums, as did @Murderbear, which seems like all response needed, if they were genuinely looking to get a reasoned discussion about why politics were not on the forums anymore they could have started from that viewpoint instead of screaming “fuck you guys I’m taking my ball and going home” in a very public fashion. I know that you have are a guy who engages in reasonable discussion @JoshTheBlack and I respect that but also you didn’t come in hot and heavy from the jump with little to no explanation about what you’re even angry about.
@Redrum0376 didn’t even start with what he found so disagreeable in the first place which seems like a bad faith way to start an argument, and notably he has had an account here for a while and his only post on here is a vaguely worded complaint about quitting Bald Move for undefined reasons. If @Redrum0376 would like to engage in an actual argument I will be perfectly willing to take him up on it. I believe you have the best interest in heart but also you can’t claim to know what someone is thinking based on zero evidence if they themselves are unwilling to engage. I am not obliged to assume that someone is arguing in good faith with no prior evidence to that fact or examples of their character.
Am I the only one who can take their post in good faith and engage with that criticism?
Engage with what? What even is his complaint? There was nothing specific in that post other than it's a bad business move for Aron to not debate him and some accusations of "demands" to follow his politics, a claim backed up by exactly nothing.
I’ll admit I started out with a joke but I did in fact immediately follow this up by informing the poster that Aron and Jim were very likely to hash it out with them about their decisions on why politics had been moved off the forums, as did @Murderbear, which seems like all response needed, if they were genuinely looking to get a reasoned discussion about why politics were not on the forums anymore they could have started from that viewpoint instead of screaming “fuck you guys I’m taking my ball and going home” in a very public fashion. I know that you have are a guy who engages in reasonable discussion @JoshTheBlack and I respect that but also you didn’t come in hot and heavy from the jump with little to no explanation about what you’re even angry about.
@Redrum0376 didn’t even start with what he found so disagreeable in the first place which seems like a bad faith way to start an argument, and notably he has had an account here for a while and his only post on here is a vaguely worded complaint about quitting Bald Move for undefined reasons. If @Redrum0376 would like to engage in an actual argument I will be perfectly willing to take him up on it. I believe you have the best interest in heart but also you can’t claim to know what someone is thinking based on zero evidence if they themselves are unwilling to engage. I am not obliged to assume that someone is arguing in good faith with no prior evidence to that fact or examples of their character.
This is fair. My point isn't that you should engage with with every angry drive by poster who complains about BMs politics. My point is our community is already prone to bully people who attack our favorite podcasters. It's not a good look. When every few months somebody flames out of the community and we all just pile on and make fun of them, it says a lot about us. I'm suggesting that we follow the forum rules as posted.
Rule 1: Don't be a dick.
Can you honestly say that the majority of this thread, including @Redrum0376 adheres to that?
Every serious discussion doesn't have to turn in to pineapples on pizza. It's a deflection.
Again, I'm only asking people to engage or ignore, and not to deflect and hijack.
And your jokes at the start weren't that egregious outside of the fact it normalizes the dismissiveness that has led to so many people leaving our community.
2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern. What are we at now? 6? 12? It's easy to say good riddance. It probably feels pretty good. But what if you're the one with a grievance, and everyone is memeing up your sincere complaint? It's not that hard to see happening.
Sorry to call you out. I just want us all to be better than this as a community.
Ahhhh shit. I don’t think I personally was being a dick or a bully or piling on like a dog. Man we had a light-hearted fun thing going here. Damn dude. I’m actually disappointed. Extended handshake, there’s a hand buzzer in there. Why are you defending so hard a fake account with a poison-laced gripe? Rule #12. Pancake time. 800lb gorilla in the room is it honestly and literally read like eating ass. It’s funny. I hear it’s awesome too. If it was a real member with actual developed capital & pals & investment in the community with no ill intentions ( like you my dude! ) we’d be talking a guy off a ledge. But it wasn’t. These guys literally created and dedicated an entire side business where in good faith they engage people’s desire to talk politics. There’s a message board for it! Come on, Josh, man. If anything let this be a catalyst for real members to chop it up at Swizzbold where it’s slowly but gradually gaining some steam.
That said.....can we please make jokes again? I will be the first to fall on my knees and beg forgiveness if anyone feels my joking around is hurtful to them.
Jesus I can imagine Jim facepalming right now- I probably fucked it up more. Anyways, love all you folks. If you wanna talk politics I’ll see you in the octagon at Swizzbold. (It’s not an octagon)
side note: never said this but your Bourbon glazed dragon eggs looked bad ass man.
I’ll admit I’m not entirely a fan of serious threads getting derailed by some jokey jokes but I’d also point out that we have an extensive thread on COVID and another extensive thread on the Protests and neither have been derailed by the yucks which suggests the community is capable of serious discussions when circumstances warrant it. I personally did not find this particular post was an attempt at a genuine argument, therefore I did not feel the need to on-ramp the discussion back towards more serious topics. I think if we’d like to have a more serious discussion about the forum culture towards dissenting opinions we should make a real thread about and not discuss it in what amounts to flame tweet.
I am not convinced it is a fake account in the context being described in this thread. I suspect it’s more likely a sockpuppet for a regular member who doesn’t want to post this under their own name, for obvious reasons. Would some random drive by really create an account in Feb 2019 so they could play the long game and drop a discussion post just to be a troll 17 months later?
I agree with @JoshTheBlack, but I also agree that if @Redrum0376 has a particular grievance it would be more helpful to state what that is (commenters here seem to think he’s complaining about not being able to talk politics, when I read it that he’s annoyed about allegedly being shut down over a particular political topic/opinion).
I'll add my 2 cents even though I've banged my head against this wall several times before. I hate that the politics threads moved off the board. Don't come at me. I know exactly why it was done. However, it's also the reason I probably won't renew when my subscription runs out. The guys just don't really cover stuff I watch anymore and the politics thread was the one thing I checked several times a day. Like I've said in the past reddit is a non starter for me so as much as I love supporting small businesses, I'm just not sure what I'm getting out of this relationship.
I would be more inclined towards the sockpuppet if it weren’t 17 months old. Why would a regular user create an anonymous account and then never user it for an entire year only to then post a vague complain about being shut down over something unknown in such a public fashion? If the goal were to garner sympathy, or win hearts and minds, or even convince Jim and Aron that they were hurting their longtime fans, using a regular account that everyone is familiar with would be far more effective than some lurker account created a year ago. @fidoz basically encapsulates what I would expect a genuine argument in this vein to be, a longtime user with history on interactions who has a reasonable complaint and voices it. Not some rando who’s never posted once, posts essentially “I got canceled so fuck Aron” and then never follows up.
@Alkaid13 I know tons of long term internet users who have years old sockpuppets all over the place for the off chance they want to use them. I have a couple of old livejournal ones myself from back in the day, though they’re probably deleted since I haven’t logged into them for 15 years.
I’ll take your word for it I guess. That seems very bizarre to me. Why have an anonymous account if you never use it? It’s very easy to create a new one if you need one. I still don’t think it being a year old lends any credence though when I’m still not clear what the argument even is. I don’t know, I’m just very tired of people dancing around what they’re trying to say or being passive aggressive about it. Just come out with what you want to say from the start.
I'll add my 2 cents even though I've banged my head against this wall several times before. I hate that the politics threads moved off the board. Don't come at me. I know exactly why it was done. However, it's also the reason I probably won't renew when my subscription runs out. The guys just don't really cover stuff I watch anymore and the politics thread was the one thing I checked several times a day. Like I've said in the past reddit is a non starter for me so as much as I love supporting small businesses, I'm just not sure what I'm getting out of this relationship.
I feel you. I don’t watch movies, I’m pretty over TV, I’m really just hanging in for the forum, which has died off considerably since the push to take politics to Reddit (and I too hate Reddit). I listen to the lunches and that’s pretty much it these days.
Well I will say that I broadly agree with the sentiment of you and @JoshTheBlack and probably @Redrum0376 is quite a bit discouraged from actually continuing his argument at this point which is unfortunate if they did in fact have a valid argument. However in the absence of said argument I would like to suggest we segway into actual discussions about the decision to migrate politics and minority opinions on the forums. Probably in a new thread with a title that reflects those discussions. That way everyone can have the eating ass thread and we can also have the serious talk thread.
Can I just say one thing? Not a single one of us aimed our comments directly at the OP. If we had, *that* would be bullying. I agree with cdrive, it was a lighthearted attempt between forum friends at having a little fun for a change. Even Jim got a good laugh. Damn, guys. Life is fucking stressful enough as is. Did this thread really need to become this?
That said, @JoshTheBlack I truly respect your opinion. I just think you took this one a bit too seriously, friend.
Can I just say one thing? Not a single one of us aimed our comments directly at the OP. If we had, *that* would be bullying. I agree with cdrive, it was a lighthearted attempt between forum friends at having a little fun for a change. Even Jim got a good laugh. Damn, guys. Life is fucking stressful enough as is. Did this thread really need to become this?
That said, @JoshTheBlack I truly respect your opinion. I just think you took this one a bit too seriously, friend.
In this particular thread, there is no way of knowing whether OP was just dropping bombs with no intent of returning, though it seems likely. That said, what you're describing (aiming comments at OP) is intentional bullying, yes. What happened here was unintentional bullying. I wouldn't assume the motives of anyone in this thread were ill intentioned. The *effect* is the same though. Do you think bullying is based on intent or effect? I think it's possible to unintentionally bully, just as you can be unintentionally racist or bigoted.
Maybe this particular instance was the wrong one to point out the problem, because it appears OP was just lobbing grenades. It's still a trend I've noticed here that I find troubling.
Our society is in crisis, there is a decent content drought currently, and ultimately running people off is bad for BaldMove as a small business. I just don't want to be party to running people off. It seems OPs complaint is more directed at A.Ron than the community, so perhaps my offense is unwarranted here. Either way, I think it would be more prudent to make jokes elsewhere and let the occasional grenade threads die with whatever genuine responses they warrant.
Sorry to bring down the mood. I genuinely want BM to be successful. I'm a huge fan.
Josh, I totally agree with everything you've just written. One thing that stands out to me massively on this forum is that you can really feel the in group / out group dynamics at play. I write that as someone who's in the out group. The discussion threads are generally good but once they take a turn into a dogpile or shift off topic, it becomes a closed shop. I say this a long term club member and supporter. I'll echo what Josh said I genuinely want BM to be successful. I'm a huge fan.
Comments
edit: didn’t see that the entire convo was about this lol
(Not that there's anything wrong with that!)
You are definitely not required to debate @Redrum0376's position here just because you disagree with it, but that doesn't mean you should all dismiss it with ass-eating syrup memes.
I'll Stan for BM all day long. I love the content, and I love the added value I get with that. Today, I am very disappointed in the community. (@Hatorian excluded, you responded in good faith.)
This thread starts off with a gripe. One that on it's face seems inflammatory and divisive. The first 2 responses are FORUM MODERATORS immediately starting in with jokes. Maybe your intent was to diffuse the situation, but this thread has completely devolved in to bullying. Engage with the topic or let the thread die, I don't care. Just don't hijack it and turn somebodies hurt into a joke.
Rule 1: Don't be a dick.
Can you honestly say that the majority of this thread, including @Redrum0376 adheres to that?
Every serious discussion doesn't have to turn in to pineapples on pizza. It's a deflection.
Again, I'm only asking people to engage or ignore, and not to deflect and hijack.
And your jokes at the start weren't that egregious outside of the fact it normalizes the dismissiveness that has led to so many people leaving our community.
2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern. What are we at now? 6? 12? It's easy to say good riddance. It probably feels pretty good. But what if you're the one with a grievance, and everyone is memeing up your sincere complaint? It's not that hard to see happening.
Sorry to call you out. I just want us all to be better than this as a community.
Jesus I can imagine Jim facepalming right now- I probably fucked it up more. Anyways, love all you folks. If you wanna talk politics I’ll see you in the octagon at Swizzbold. (It’s not an octagon)
side note: never said this but your Bourbon glazed dragon eggs looked bad ass man.
I feel you. I don’t watch movies, I’m pretty over TV, I’m really just hanging in for the forum, which has died off considerably since the push to take politics to Reddit (and I too hate Reddit). I listen to the lunches and that’s pretty much it these days.
Well I will say that I broadly agree with the sentiment of you and @JoshTheBlack and probably @Redrum0376 is quite a bit discouraged from actually continuing his argument at this point which is unfortunate if they did in fact have a valid argument. However in the absence of said argument I would like to suggest we segway into actual discussions about the decision to migrate politics and minority opinions on the forums. Probably in a new thread with a title that reflects those discussions. That way everyone can have the eating ass thread and we can also have the serious talk thread.
That said, @JoshTheBlack I truly respect your opinion. I just think you took this one a bit too seriously, friend.
Maybe this particular instance was the wrong one to point out the problem, because it appears OP was just lobbing grenades. It's still a trend I've noticed here that I find troubling.
Our society is in crisis, there is a decent content drought currently, and ultimately running people off is bad for BaldMove as a small business. I just don't want to be party to running people off. It seems OPs complaint is more directed at A.Ron than the community, so perhaps my offense is unwarranted here. Either way, I think it would be more prudent to make jokes elsewhere and let the occasional grenade threads die with whatever genuine responses they warrant.
Sorry to bring down the mood. I genuinely want BM to be successful. I'm a huge fan.
Edit: Grammar, not content.