Lovecraft Country (Spoilers SHOW ONLY - no book spoilers)

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Comments

  • CoryCory New Scotland
    jluzania said:
    I am also now fully on board the theory of Christina and William being the same person. Christina driving into that house and William walking out to beat down the two cops sealed it for me. 
    Yup, that did it for me. My guess is she created a spell to make herself a man, as her cult seems to be "wizards only".
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Here in this home we called that the "Dora The Explorer" episode.  / National Treasure episode.
    jluzania
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Tonight’s is gonna be a humdinger according to Alan Sepinwall...

    https://twitter.com/sepinwall/status/1305257566897872896?s=21
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    I probably might have drifted off and stop watching were it not for this episode. This episode is the best so far! 
  • Jim was quite right in the After Hours review the guys put out of episodes 3 and 4.  At least to episode 4, this is way too pulpy upbeat in the horror/magic realm so far to be Lovecraftian. Their positive outlook on the "we will use our good magic and your own language against you as a way to victory" plan just is not the way that works with Lovecraft, and the creeping sense of dread is missing so far.  Maybe it would just be too depressing if told in the standard Lovecraftian trope....
  • edited September 2020
    I find it hilarious that A.Ron even called out in the 1st Off the Clock episode covering Lovecraft Country how ripped Jonathan Majors is in this and said it's almost like he's already cast in a Marvel or DC movie. Just had this article come through my news feed...

    https://deadline.com/2020/09/jonathan-majors-ant-man-3-marvel-universe-1203028234/
  • Jim was quite right in the After Hours review the guys put out of episodes 3 and 4.  At least to episode 4, this is way too pulpy upbeat in the horror/magic realm so far to be Lovecraftian. Their positive outlook on the "we will use our good magic and your own language against you as a way to victory" plan just is not the way that works with Lovecraft, and the creeping sense of dread is missing so far.  Maybe it would just be too depressing if told in the standard Lovecraftian trope....
    The book it's based on is definitely more upbeat (in terms of how the "magic" works) than Lovecraft is, as well. 
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    This show has been a big disappointment to me.  

    The first episode was really fun and actually had some Lovecraft elements in it.  I realize this is based on an anthology that is VERY loosely based on his universe, but I'm just not really liking this show.  

    It's incredibly uneven and IF they were trying to pull the anthology from the book into a cohesive narrative, they didn't give themselves enough time to do it or they don't have a great team of writers. 

    The last episode had some cool visuals, but the big "twist" at the end (like everyone didn't see that coming) doesn't make sense based on how that worked earlier in the series.  I'm trying not to spoil anyone, but the timing doesn't make sense if you rewatch the second and possibly third episode.  One happens a the snap of a finger and this episode does NOT follow that. 

    I think this is a one and done season for me unless things massively improve. 
    neal
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    rhcoop said:
    This show has been a big disappointment to me.  

    The first episode was really fun and actually had some Lovecraft elements in it.  I realize this is based on an anthology that is VERY loosely based on his universe, but I'm just not really liking this show.  

    It's incredibly uneven and IF they were trying to pull the anthology from the book into a cohesive narrative, they didn't give themselves enough time to do it or they don't have a great team of writers. 

    The last episode had some cool visuals, but the big "twist" at the end (like everyone didn't see that coming) doesn't make sense based on how that worked earlier in the series.  I'm trying not to spoil anyone, but the timing doesn't make sense if you rewatch the second and possibly third episode.  One happens a the snap of a finger and this episode does NOT follow that. 

    I think this is a one and done season for me unless things massively improve. 

    Unfortunately because of the political statements the show is making, it will have some immunity from criticism. Everyone will do fine financially, the participants will go on to great projects, and nothing will be learned. If anything, it will be encouraged and we'll see more of this in the future.

    Don't mind me -- I'm a bored consumer.
    rhcoop
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Alan Sepinwall wasn't lying.  Glad I ate dinner before watching that.   




  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    JaimieT said:
    rhcoop said:
    This show has been a big disappointment to me.  

    The first episode was really fun and actually had some Lovecraft elements in it.  I realize this is based on an anthology that is VERY loosely based on his universe, but I'm just not really liking this show.  

    It's incredibly uneven and IF they were trying to pull the anthology from the book into a cohesive narrative, they didn't give themselves enough time to do it or they don't have a great team of writers. 

    The last episode had some cool visuals, but the big "twist" at the end (like everyone didn't see that coming) doesn't make sense based on how that worked earlier in the series.  I'm trying not to spoil anyone, but the timing doesn't make sense if you rewatch the second and possibly third episode.  One happens a the snap of a finger and this episode does NOT follow that. 

    I think this is a one and done season for me unless things massively improve. 

    Unfortunately because of the political statements the show is making, it will have some immunity from criticism. Everyone will do fine financially, the participants will go on to great projects, and nothing will be learned. If anything, it will be encouraged and we'll see more of this in the future.

    Don't mind me -- I'm a bored consumer.
    I completely get what you are saying.

    The actors have done a good job, but the writers and show runners shouldn't get big gigs based off this unless things do a massive 180 IMO. 

    I fault myself as I haven't read the book.  I foolishly thought it was tied a lot more closely to Lovecraft's mythos and I was hoping to see more things like in the first epidode. 
    JaimieT
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    I really wanted to like this show. But I don't. The writing is so lazy. And I generally max out my "how the hell did that happen?" or "how the hell did they wind up there?" type comments 10 minutes into the show. Some of this I blame on bad editing. 

    Fingers crossed that The Third Day, Utopia, and/or Fargo will be great. 
    nealrhcoopgjames80
  • JoshTheBlackJoshTheBlack Atlanta, GA
    edited September 2020
    Just an observation... Episode 5 spoiler.
    Hillary is played by Jamie Neumann, as was "Dell" in episode 2.  Does the blood-colored polyjuice potion require blood?  Maybe Dell and William are both chained up in the basement?  Why else keep it locked?

    Cory
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited September 2020
    Omar fucks again! Take that, Kenard!
  • rhcoop said:
    The last episode had some cool visuals, but the big "twist" at the end (like everyone didn't see that coming) doesn't make sense based on how that worked earlier in the series.  I'm trying not to spoil anyone, but the timing doesn't make sense if you rewatch the second and possibly third episode.  One happens a the snap of a finger and this episode does NOT follow that. 

    Good point. For example, it's completely inconsistent with what we see in episode 4, when Christina walks into her house and William walks out looking pristine and fully dressed seconds later.

    I've said if for other shows and I'll say it for this one. If the characters are consistent and well written, that goes a long way to make up for story shortfalls for me. The show's overall narrative seems less of the point than vignettes that reveal a little bit about one or a handful of characters each week. I think that focus is strong and the last two weeks centering on Ruby and then Ji-ah and Atticus, respectively, was pretty quality storytelling.

    But the overall narrative feels like it barely exists at the moment. I do hope it's building to something entertaining and insightful, and the end of Meet Me in Daegu hints at that. I hope it's worth it in the end. 
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    jluzania said:
    rhcooe in episode 4, when Christina walks into her house and William walks out looking pristine and fully dressed seconds later.

    I've said if for other shows and I'll say it for this one. If the characters are consistent and well written, that goes a long way to make up for story shortfalls for me. The show's overall narrative seems less of the point than vignettes that reveal a little bit about one or a handful of characters each week. I think that focus is strong and the last two weeks centering on Ruby and then Ji-ah and Atticus, respectively, was pretty quality storytelling.

    But the overall narrative feels like it barely exists at the moment. I do hope it's building to something entertaining and insightful, and the end of Meet Me in Daegu hints at that. I hope it's worth it in the end. 
    I think I'm donzo on it.  I have the latest episode taped and I have zero urgency to watch it.  I think they blew their Lovecraft wad on that first episode so I'm not digging it too much.  I realize the book was a series of short stories, but they should have went that direction and not tried to tie them all together or hired better writers to have it make all more sense IMO. 

    That new Jude Law show that just came out on HBO seems a lot better on face value to me.  
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    rhcoop said:
    jluzania said:
    rhcooe in episode 4, when Christina walks into her house and William walks out looking pristine and fully dressed seconds later.

    I've said if for other shows and I'll say it for this one. If the characters are consistent and well written, that goes a long way to make up for story shortfalls for me. The show's overall narrative seems less of the point than vignettes that reveal a little bit about one or a handful of characters each week. I think that focus is strong and the last two weeks centering on Ruby and then Ji-ah and Atticus, respectively, was pretty quality storytelling.

    But the overall narrative feels like it barely exists at the moment. I do hope it's building to something entertaining and insightful, and the end of Meet Me in Daegu hints at that. I hope it's worth it in the end. 
    I think I'm donzo on it.  I have the latest episode taped and I have zero urgency to watch it.  I think they blew their Lovecraft wad on that first episode so I'm not digging it too much.  I realize the book was a series of short stories, but they should have went that direction and not tried to tie them all together or hired better writers to have it make all more sense IMO. 

    That new Jude Law show that just came out on HBO seems a lot better on face value to me.  
    My boyfriend wants to finish so I will see it through but I will also phone scroll during the episodes. The writing is so just so bad. 

    Going to start the Jude Law show today or tomorrow. If it's worthy of comments I expect they'll be a show thread.
    rhcoop
  • The latest episode was pretty good.  One of the better ones.  I do agree though, there's not really any trace of Lovecraft since they left the mansion in episode 2.  Indiana Jones, sure.  Ghosts, yup!  Weird Korean demons, check.  Sanity threatening cultists and monsters?  Nope.
  • I was pretty turned off by this show with the second episode and we took a break after episode three to catch up on some other stuff, we weren't super eager to get back to it. After catching up this week, I'm all in again. Taking a break and coming back to the show and watching it for what it is rather than what I thought it was going to be after episode one really helped. I'm not going to pretend like I fully understand the connected story but it's enough to care about the characters and the contained episodes let them go nuts with the different premises.
  • Episode 6 where Atticus was in the war has completely reinvested me in the series. The past couple episodes did nothing for me but that episode was easily my favorite episode. Not that the show hasn't been a character drama but this episode felt so much more character driven. 
    jluzania
  • jluzaniajluzania Denver
    edited September 2020
    I do think the episodes tend to work really well as individual self-contained stories that put individual characters on a journey of self realization while at the same time showcasing various aspects of the Black experience in America. It shines best when we're on an adventure with the character of the week, and to me the overall arc is almost a distraction. When I was going back over the episode to look up the various coordinates, I'd forgotten that Atticus had visited his family's friend in St. Louis until that scrolled past that scene. I have to think that the overall plot will become more of the center as we enter the final episodes, though it looks like we may have at least one episode focusing on Dee before we do. 

    The reveal that Hippolyta is a mathematical and astrophysical genius reminds me of A.Ron's occasional musings about the bright individuals we will never know about because they grow up in environments where they don't have the opportunities to make the most of their gifts. Hippolyta choosing to return to her Earth to raise Dee may be part of that. She is, of course, her mother and loves her and wants to be there for her, but she also likely realizes that maybe Dee will have the opportunities to make the most of her talents in a way Hippolyta couldn't. Entering adulthood in the 60s and 70s might let Dee use her artistic and creative skills in ways Hippolyta could never use her brain. 

    By the way, looks like the coordinates on the model are right next to someone's house outside of Troy, KS. I wonder if they noticed or if someone let them know. Might have the occasional random visitor drive by now. 

     

    jluzania said:
    rhcoop said:
    The last episode had some cool visuals, but the big "twist" at the end (like everyone didn't see that coming) doesn't make sense based on how that worked earlier in the series.  I'm trying not to spoil anyone, but the timing doesn't make sense if you rewatch the second and possibly third episode.  One happens a the snap of a finger and this episode does NOT follow that. 

    Good point. For example, it's completely inconsistent with what we see in episode 4, when Christina walks into her house and William walks out looking pristine and fully dressed seconds later.

    It occurred to me later that we never did see the transformation to the person they change into, just the transformation back. The initial change is probably much less messy and painful, as Ruby unknowingly waking up as a white woman implies. That still doesn't explain how Christina could change her outfit so quickly. 
  • Hell. Yes!  Tonight's episode finally brought some chills back to the show. 
  • Those kids freaked my wife out, but she hates creepy kids. Definitely nice to be getting back to what feels like the "main" plot, but the middle 3-4 episodes of this season really didn't do it for me. This one was the closest to what Episode 1 promised IMO. I'll finish out the season but it needs to keep improving for me to want to watch season 2.

    Especially with Haunting of Hiller House the Hillening Bly Manor releasing in a few days as prestige spooky TV that will probably take a lot of the remaining spotlight from lovecraft country. 
  • Nice return of the Lovecraftian monster. Quite the holy shit moment.

    I was so blown back by that that I didn't realize until later that Diana's plot wasn't resolved in this episode. Seeing where those demon kids were attacking her, I wonder if she's the hooded woman with the "robot arm" who gave the book to Atticus. 
  • Our second HBO depiction of the Tulsa Massacre in the last year. Good episode.

    Though am I mistaken or was the observatory and multiverse machine in Kansas a couple episodes ago? Yet in this episode it's in Kentucky? Did they screw that one up? Am I missing something or misremembering a detail? 
  • jluzania said:
    Our second HBO depiction of the Tulsa Massacre in the last year. Good episode.

    Though am I mistaken or was the observatory and multiverse machine in Kansas a couple episodes ago? Yet in this episode it's in Kentucky? Did they screw that one up? Am I missing something or misremembering a detail? 
    I thought the same thing. Maybe I missed something though.

    It was uncomfortable watching most of the episode, which I'm sure is by design. 

    I did enjoy the symmetry with Tic swinging the bat like Jackie Robinson to save the day, just like the opening of episode 1.

    Ruby turning a little to the dark side with Christina?

    Next week should be good. 
  • Just an observation... Episode 5 spoiler.
    Hillary is played by Jamie Neumann, as was "Dell" in episode 2.  Does the blood-colored polyjuice potion require blood?  Maybe Dell and William are both chained up in the basement?  Why else keep it locked?

    Well, this turned out to be spot on.  Your winning lotto numbers are 4, 13, 25, 29, 36, 41.
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    Looks like the guys were right to not do a full coverage on this show.  After seeing the finale, this was a pretty entertaining show that has the possibility to turn terrible pretty quickly.  The last episode seemed to be a microcosm of everything that was weak about the show to begin with; problems with the narrative, forced character motivation, really obvious, ham-fisted writing, and trying to cram too much into too little screen time.

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show overall and I'm happy I watched it. The pilot alone made the season worthwhile.  However, I have a feeling that if they didn't hit a home run with the casting, this would've been considerably worse.
    PeepsCoryjluzania
  • Andrew said:
    The last episode seemed to be a microcosm of everything that was weak about the show to begin with; problems with the narrative, forced character motivation, really obvious, ham-fisted writing, and trying to cram too much into too little screen time.

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the show overall and I'm happy I watched it.
    I'm also glad I watched it, even though I view the show like I do Sense8: not meant for me, but interesting to see a very different POV get a chance to make a show.  As media continues to fracture and SFX become cheaper, more people will be able to reach their audience repeatedly and folks won't feel the need to put everything into one show.

  • jluzaniajluzania Denver
    edited October 2020
    Yeah, I agree about the finale. It has its moments but ended up feeling very shallow to me overall. Especially with some of the deep character work previous episodes had had, the heavier moments in this one felt a bit empty to me. 

    That said, we do need more of these stories, even when they're not the very best. I remember listening to a podcast shortly after Crazy Rich Asians came out and was a hit a few years back and Michael Schur commented that we'll really know we've made it when a director like John Chu can make something great like CRA, but also half a dozen middling to mediocre films and still have a thriving career in Hollywood. I think Lovecraft Country is overall pretty solid, with plenty of outstanding material (take, for example, last week's episode). But it isn't perfect and it has a number of flaws from start to finish. And that's fine. 

    Are they thinking of doing a second season? Otherwise, that last moment with Dee is a bizarre one to end on. Sure, neat brutal way to kill Christina, but for the second time in a handful of episodes, the grown ups are so distracted by an emotional loss that they forget about the kid they're supposed to be looking after. 

    Plus, years ago A.Ron excoriated me a bit in an email I sent for expressing sadness about Arya's journey toward becoming a child killer. I'll say now what I really meant to say then that the sad thing is not that Dee takes this particular action. Christina is a terrible person who murdered Atticus in an attempt to achieve her own power. As long as she's alive, she's a threat to the Freeman family, with or without magic. There's no justice system they could rely on to keep Christina safely locked up or rehabilitated so that she can't hurt them in the future. So killing Christina is arguably necessary. What's sad is that Dee has to do it to survive. The world sucks, especially for BIPOC individuals, and doubly so in a Jim Crow era with actual magic and supernatural beasts. But it is still sad it's Dee who has to do it and, like when Arya killed Polliver, she's experienced so much horror and trauma that she's so free of passion or emotion when she does it.  

    I do wonder how a spell that works on the blurred societal construct that is racial lines operates. 

    Edit: One other thing. The show never really addressed Montrose killing Yahima except one mention when Atticus wants Leti to know he's not the best guy. It makes them feel like even more of a throwaway character in retrospect. 
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