Raised By Wolves - Episode 6 & 7(spoilers)

cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
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  • MoonMan13MoonMan13 Northern Kentucky
    Ok, so admittedly I've been 'watching' while working so please forgive my laziness if I'm just missing it BUT what exactly is occurring with the sensory/hallucination elements that are clearly meant to evoke supernatural or spiritual experiences? Does the show want us to assume this is the case? or are we meant to understand this as some kind of technological capability of mother?
  • Now that’s a voice of God...
    cdrive
  • So the main mithraic soldier definitely is suspicious now after mother said that. His comment about the engineering makes me think that may be part of their program to identify atheists. 

    Also it’s probably the point of the show but it feels like if they just all got together and talked this out and they could potentially all live with a truce. Mother Father and campion live next to the Mithraics: mother protects everyone and in return the mithraics don’t try to turn campion. 


    cdrive
  • Does anyone know if this is meant to play out as a limited series or as a multi season show? They could go the multi season show route but with the way everything has played out I have a feeling this is a 1 season and done kind of show. Anybody else have an opinion on this. 
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    awookiee said:
    Does anyone know if this is meant to play out as a limited series or as a multi season show? They could go the multi season show route but with the way everything has played out I have a feeling this is a 1 season and done kind of show. Anybody else have an opinion on this. 
    Looks like it was just recently renewed for Season 2.  Apparently it's HBOMAX's biggest
    https://deadline.com/2020/09/raised-by-wolves-renewed-hbo-max-season-2-1234578786/
  • cdrive said:
    awookiee said:
    Does anyone know if this is meant to play out as a limited series or as a multi season show? They could go the multi season show route but with the way everything has played out I have a feeling this is a 1 season and done kind of show. Anybody else have an opinion on this. 
    Looks like it was just recently renewed for Season 2.  Apparently it's HBOMAX's biggest
    https://deadline.com/2020/09/raised-by-wolves-renewed-hbo-max-season-2-1234578786/
    I really like how there is no BAD guy in this. You have moments of characters being bad but everything skews good to grey. Im actually rooting for a common ground between the two groups and season 2 maybe we get a real villain. 
    Giovanni
  • Hatorian said:
    cdrive said:
    awookiee said:
    Does anyone know if this is meant to play out as a limited series or as a multi season show? They could go the multi season show route but with the way everything has played out I have a feeling this is a 1 season and done kind of show. Anybody else have an opinion on this. 
    Looks like it was just recently renewed for Season 2.  Apparently it's HBOMAX's biggest
    https://deadline.com/2020/09/raised-by-wolves-renewed-hbo-max-season-2-1234578786/
    I really like how there is no BAD guy in this. You have moments of characters being bad but everything skews good to grey. Im actually rooting for a common ground between the two groups and season 2 maybe we get a real villain. 
    Couldn't agree more about enjoying the idea of no true bad guy in the series so far anyways. Everybody seems to have character flaws but not enough that they are seen as a true bad guy. Well except the guy Marcus ended holding to the giant stone which set him ablaze. He was a real ass hole but he's far from a main character in the series. 
    Giovanni
  • Having watched through ep 7 I still don't know how I feel about the show.  Obviously I don't hate it or I wouldn't have watched to this point, but I still find myself both intrigued and yet let down more than I like.

    Things I like:
    Great Visuals
    Wonderful Acting.  Even when it traipses into cliche its at least fun acting to watch

    Things I struggle with:
    Tango Nevada had a great running list of plot weaknesses/head-scratchers here that I agree with and think are contributing to where I'm struggling: http://forums.baldmove.com/discussion/comment/172796/#Comment_172796

    I'll add that while I don't need a detailed explanation for everything (even hard sci-fi needs its gimmies for the plot to work), I don't like when stories seem like they want to explore a concept with heavy scientific implications and not do at least a bare minimum to explain the core of how we arrived where we're at in the story.  Sure it could still be early with more explanations coming, but the general approach so far just seems to be to try to hand wave too much away for my tastes.

    In addition: while some of the concepts are interesting and scratching my sci-fi itches, they are often explored in such a shallow way as to be baffling.  For one example: The central conflict that caused the world to be destroyed (some centralized religious power fighting with non-believers), while not fundamentally unbelievable, is so thinly sketched it leaves all of these frustrating questions in my head about the why and how the world got to that point.  Never mind that to the extent its explored at all, the portrayal of "Atheists" feels like a believer's perspective of the worldview vs something recognizable to what it actually is in the real world.  In fiction, it's no surprise when philosophies don't necessarily have all their real-world nuances touched on, but some of the dialogue and decisions here have felt very writerly.  I appreciate that the religious side is clearly not "the good guys" either, which is better than is usually the case when contrasted with atheists in a premise, but it still feels like there's a believer's finger on the scale in the portrayal.

    I wonder how much of this is due to Ridley Scott's influence; particularly the emphasis on style and tone over everything else. 
    MoonMan13Giovanni
  • MoonMan13MoonMan13 Northern Kentucky
    @mharmless I do get the breeze of heavy hand waiving too. As for the shallow religious binary, it feels almost a way to give both parties equal footing: as in humans can behave in these tribalistic ways no matter what the 'cause' and that as an 'outside' observer (the tv audience) might be able to realize this about ourselves? 
    I know, classic post-modern apoligistic hooey phooey, but give me time to think of a more emotional human response - perhaps a joke. Have you heard the one about a door?
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    awookiee said:
    Hatorian said:
    cdrive said:
    awookiee said:
    Does anyone know if this is meant to play out as a limited series or as a multi season show? They could go the multi season show route but with the way everything has played out I have a feeling this is a 1 season and done kind of show. Anybody else have an opinion on this. 
    Looks like it was just recently renewed for Season 2.  Apparently it's HBOMAX's biggest
    https://deadline.com/2020/09/raised-by-wolves-renewed-hbo-max-season-2-1234578786/
    I really like how there is no BAD guy in this. You have moments of characters being bad but everything skews good to grey. Im actually rooting for a common ground between the two groups and season 2 maybe we get a real villain. 
    Couldn't agree more about enjoying the idea of no true bad guy in the series so far anyways. Everybody seems to have character flaws but not enough that they are seen as a true bad guy. Well except the guy Marcus ended holding to the giant stone which set him ablaze. He was a real ass hole but he's far from a main character in the series. 
    I don't know. Sol and Richard Dawkins both seem like real big pieces of shit in this.
  • @MoonMan13 Oh, without a doubt tribalism is something that any group can end up embracing to destructive ends, not just theists.  It was more some of the over the top "atheists are able to justify anything," and "atheists are  absurdly cold and unfeeling because emotions are stupid" attitude that fell too far toward stereotype for my tastes since we don't know more about how the world got to that point.  It's not a wrong choice given the stereotype of the Mithraic it's balanced against, just something that caused me to bounce off some of the material.

    Watching this week's episodes I think I'm comfortable saying this is definitely on the fantasy end of the spectrum, not sci-fi, despite the futuristic setting.  That's not a knock; I enjoy fantasy, the focus of the storytelling is just different and not what I was looking for with this show.  The show's not concerned with grounding what's going on in any detailed or realistic terms.  The science and tech just "is" so the plot can move forward.  I was seeing the hints of sci-fi plots and ideas, expecting them to fill in how those ideas impact the world and the people in it, but the writers are not interested in exploring that side of things which is their prerogative.  Those sci-fi ideas are just the backdrop behind the overall thematic drama they're going for.  I'll probably keep watching a few more episodes, but my interest level has dropped the less grounded it's become.
    MoonMan13
  • mharmless said:
    Having watched through ep 7 I still don't know how I feel about the show.  Obviously I don't hate it or I wouldn't have watched to this point, but I still find myself both intrigued and yet let down more than I like.

    Things I like:
    Great Visuals
    Wonderful Acting.  Even when it traipses into cliche its at least fun acting to watch

    Things I struggle with:
    Tango Nevada had a great running list of plot weaknesses/head-scratchers here that I agree with and think are contributing to where I'm struggling: http://forums.baldmove.com/discussion/comment/172796/#Comment_172796

    I'll add that while I don't need a detailed explanation for everything (even hard sci-fi needs its gimmies for the plot to work), I don't like when stories seem like they want to explore a concept with heavy scientific implications and not do at least a bare minimum to explain the core of how we arrived where we're at in the story.  Sure it could still be early with more explanations coming, but the general approach so far just seems to be to try to hand wave too much away for my tastes.

    In addition: while some of the concepts are interesting and scratching my sci-fi itches, they are often explored in such a shallow way as to be baffling.  For one example: The central conflict that caused the world to be destroyed (some centralized religious power fighting with non-believers), while not fundamentally unbelievable, is so thinly sketched it leaves all of these frustrating questions in my head about the why and how the world got to that point.  Never mind that to the extent its explored at all, the portrayal of "Atheists" feels like a believer's perspective of the worldview vs something recognizable to what it actually is in the real world.  In fiction, it's no surprise when philosophies don't necessarily have all their real-world nuances touched on, but some of the dialogue and decisions here have felt very writerly.  I appreciate that the religious side is clearly not "the good guys" either, which is better than is usually the case when contrasted with atheists in a premise, but it still feels like there's a believer's finger on the scale in the portrayal.

    I wonder how much of this is due to Ridley Scott's influence; particularly the emphasis on style and tone over everything else. 
    I have a feeling with this show being renewed for a season 2 that the history of what led earth down the path it did will be flushed out in flashbacks or possibly even teachings to the children that are alive. I understand that was just 1 example in the bigger picture of what, in my eyes as well, isn't working for this show but I keep telling myself we're 7 episodes in to a series that at this point is going to be somewhere between 16-24 episodes at the minimum. 
  • MoonMan13MoonMan13 Northern Kentucky
    mharmless said:
    @MoonMan13 Oh, without a doubt tribalism is something that any group can end up embracing to destructive ends, not just theists.  It was more some of the over the top "atheists are able to justify anything," and "atheists are  absurdly cold and unfeeling because emotions are stupid" attitude that fell too far toward stereotype for my tastes since we don't know more about how the world got to that point.  It's not a wrong choice given the stereotype of the Mithraic it's balanced against, just something that caused me to bounce off some of the material.

    Watching this week's episodes I think I'm comfortable saying this is definitely on the fantasy end of the spectrum, not sci-fi, despite the futuristic setting.  That's not a knock; I enjoy fantasy, the focus of the storytelling is just different and not what I was looking for with this show.  The show's not concerned with grounding what's going on in any detailed or realistic terms.  The science and tech just "is" so the plot can move forward.  I was seeing the hints of sci-fi plots and ideas, expecting them to fill in how those ideas impact the world and the people in it, but the writers are not interested in exploring that side of things which is their prerogative.  Those sci-fi ideas are just the backdrop behind the overall thematic drama they're going for.  I'll probably keep watching a few more episodes, but my interest level has dropped the less grounded it's become.
    Also agree about the fantasy. Fantasy-science, science-fantasy, sci-fant, what should we call this? 
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