Fargo S4 (Spoilers)

ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
so Loy Cannon's kid is Mike Milligan right? Rabbi Milligan takes him under his wing and bam!
DummyMichelleksa1001seauxphie
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  • Chinaski said:
    so Loy Cannon's kid is Mike Milligan right? Rabbi Milligan takes him under his wing and bam!
    It seems that way and given the history that we saw in the opening of ep1 the fact that Cannon's son (if that is Mike Milligan) identifies as a Milligan (at least later in life) it could be suggestive of what might happen between Cannon, his son, the Italian family and his Jewish-raised Irish caretaker.
    MichelleChinaski
  • MichelleMichelle California
    I'm loving this season so far.  The historical aspect in terms of race and nationality, the use of colors (rich one moment, muted the next depending on the character), and so much symbolism:
    • Color theory:  the use of color theory/the color wheel as it applies to various characters.  Good info here on what different colors represent.
    • Mayflower:  interesting that she's being shown as our main villain so far (?) with that last name, given that the pilgrims basically took the land away from the native Americans.  So if this season centers around race wars/wars between nationalities, *of course* the Mayflower would be the main 'big bad' since that's pretty much where this all started for America.
    • Cannon, Fadda:  I heard this one on a different podcast so I didn't come up with it on my own, but cannon fodder?  Seems very appropriate or pretty much spot on.

    I tried researching mafia/gangs in the early part of the 20th century to see if son-swapping was actually a thing, but I couldn't find anything about it so I think that's just for story purposes.  And this might be obvious, but is the upper floor of Joplin's where they always met for that ritual?
    Chinaskiksa1001seauxphie
  • JeffreyJeffrey Des Moines
    Michelle said:
    I'm loving this season so far.  The historical aspect in terms of race and nationality, the use of colors (rich one moment, muted the next depending on the character), and so much symbolism:
    • Color theory:  the use of color theory/the color wheel as it applies to various characters.  Good info here on what different colors represent.
    • Mayflower:  interesting that she's being shown as our main villain so far (?) with that last name, given that the pilgrims basically took the land away from the native Americans.  So if this season centers around race wars/wars between nationalities, *of course* the Mayflower would be the main 'big bad' since that's pretty much where this all started for America.
    • Cannon, Fadda:  I heard this one on a different podcast so I didn't come up with it on my own, but cannon fodder?  Seems very appropriate or pretty much spot on.

    I tried researching mafia/gangs in the early part of the 20th century to see if son-swapping was actually a thing, but I couldn't find anything about it so I think that's just for story purposes.  And this might be obvious, but is the upper floor of Joplin's where they always met for that ritual?

    I haven't found anything either about son-swapping in the 20th century, but I did read somewhere that it did happen in ancient times.
    Michelle
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Rewatching episode 1 on my phone while working (benefit of having an entire department to yourself).
    More symbolism:  in the crosswalk scene, while they're stopped and waiting to go, in the dark car's backseat the kid is playing with a dark car and a light car, having the dark car overtake the light one.  The actual cars in this scene are one dark, one light.  It could also represent the race wars, with the dark car overtaking the white car.
    CretanBull
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited September 30
    Pro-tip#1:  Don't google "son swapping" on a work computer...the first page of results is NSFW  :/

    In terms of it being a historical practice, I've definitely read about it before....I was hoping that google could help remind me of where and the timeline, but I couldn't pursue that without sending the IT guys are my work into a panic!

    I do know that the medieval practice of using marriage to solidify alliances is essentially the same thing....the King of Spain sends his daughter off to England to marry some Prince, and the King of England replies in kind.

    I have no idea if ethnic gangs used this in America, but whether it is historically accurate or not it serves the purpose of underlying that these ethnic gangs are new to America but have lots of old-world traditions.  As we saw with the conflict between Jason Schwartzman and his newly arrived brother, the clash between new and old world ways of doing things is very much real.
    MichelleDummyksa1001EMAW42seauxphieJoshTheBlack
  • The medieval practice went beyond marriage to exactly what is being portrayed in this season of Fargo.  Children of other kingdoms were common in royal courts.  Definitely true in Europe and Asia (Mongol tribes for certain, I believe I have read the same for China (Jin, etc.)).
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    I was surprised that No Country For Old Men was not mentioned with the cattle-killing bolt gun being used in the first two episodes.
    Chinaski
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    ksa1001 said:
    I was surprised that No Country For Old Men was not mentioned with the cattle-killing bolt gun being used in the first two episodes.

    That's exactly what I said when we got done recording, "damn, I forgot to talk about the captive-bolt guns!" I really loved how everyone jumped every time they went off, 'cept for Gaitano and Dr. Doctor Senator.
    seauxphieksa1001
  • jluzaniajluzania Denver
    edited October 1
    Just listened to the cast and I did miss the creepy guy standing in the road. Ah! I wonder if that's some ally of Mayflower's or maybe just a visual flare to make us feel more unsettled around her. 

    I could see Satchel latching on to Milligan deeply enough that he takes his name, especially if the exchange stretches on for years and he feels abandoned by Cannon. The contrast between how the two families are treating their wards was made clear enough at the end of the episode and Rabbi Milligan may end up being Satchel's only lifeline down the road.  

    Edit: I do wonder if the seasons ends with an ostensible Cannon victory. On the podcast, Jim seemed fairly certain of it, but I can't help but wonder if any Cannon win is ultimately bittersweet, considering the U.S.'s shifting definition of "whiteness" in the ensuing decades after this season is set. 
  • edited October 2
    Is anybody else shipping Rabbi Milligan and Ethelrida to raise Mike Milligan?
  • Bit late to this but what a great start to the season.  Double episode that puts you right in the middle of everything right away.  Do you think they will either confirm or deny whether Satchel truly does grow up to be Mike Milligan?  I have a feeling Hawley won't go to that extent to straight call it out but I hope it's all but confirmed by what happens with Satchel by the end of the season.  Absolutely digging the direction this season is going but I am with the guys on missing the Minnesotan accent that has been so prevalent in previous episodes. 

    Favorite line so far "That's one weird white lady"
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    edited October 8
    def a reach.. but doesn't Timothy Olyphant have a young Billy Bob Thornton vibe? i mean obv not him, but would be kinda cool if related somehow.
    CretanBull
  • MichelleMichelle California
    Chinaski said:
    def a reach.. but doesn't Timothy Olyphant have a young Billy Bob Thornton vibe? i mean obv not him, but would be kinda cool if related somehow.
    I picked up on that too!  I wouldn't be super shocked if we learn that his character's a relative of Lorne Malvo.
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    holy shit! what a bad ass cold (ok maybe hot) open!
    Alkaid13
  • Oh Thurman. You try to make things better, but it doesn't work out for you.
  • I really love the direction they're going in for S4 and it might be the cast they've ever had.  Glynn Turman has been a boss and I find this new guy Salvatore Esposito endlessly entertaining.  One second he's all crazy eyes, then he's a homesick little boy.  It already feels a lot stronger than S3.

    I'm not sure what to make of the horror homages, but they're well done.  When they were slowly panning across the Smutny house I got Halloween vibes, then they actually went for it and put a creepy guy in the road.  Great Carpenter nod along with the Kubrick stuff.
  • lengmolengmo RTP, NC
    I keep expecting to see Tic and Leti driving through town, arguing and pointing at a map.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    I'm calling it now that Raylan (He's basically playing a more straight laced Raylan) is going to take out the crazy eyes brother.  

    That guy won't make it till the end of the season.  He's too bezerko. 
    Chinaski
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    rhcoop said:
    I'm calling it now that Raylan (He's basically playing a more straight laced Raylan) is going to take out the crazy eyes brother.  

    That guy won't make it till the end of the season.  He's too bezerko. 
    oh yeah for sure. i foresee crazy eyes going out in a well shot slow Coen Brothers-esq way.
    rhcoopMichelle
  • MichelleMichelle California
    She left her notebook in that closet.  This isn't going to be good.
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    Michelle said:
    She left her notebook in that closet.  This isn't going to be good.
    oh yeah, that can't end well. all those 'trophies'. yikes! the angel of death!  :#

    anyone catch the connection to S2? they mention selling the guns to Mort Mellerman out of Fargo. he got stabbed in the theater by Gerhardt.
    Michelle
  • edited October 15
    The problem with satchel being mike milligen is that mike told about his mother here:

  • Maybe Rabbi marries a lady named Barbara. Or maybe the only connection is the coincidental name. 

    Hoo boy, some major missteps by the Smutney clan in this one. They should just let Dibrell make all of their decisions. Then again, she was the one that got them in debt to the mob in the first place, so nobody's perfect. 
    Chinaski
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    jluzania said:
    Maybe Rabbi marries a lady named Barbara. Or maybe the only connection is the coincidental name.
    i was just gonna say something similar. 'Barbara Milligen' doesn't have to be his biological mom.
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    Sure is weird starting Haunting of Hill House and season 4 of Fargo at the same time and them having a bunch of similarities.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    RIP Mayor Doctor Senator Royce, you were the best character.
    PeepsMichelle
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Cory said:
    RIP Mayor Doctor Senator Royce, you were the best character.
    First he loses to Carcetti. Then he really loses to Calamita.
    Cory
  • jluzaniajluzania Denver
    edited October 22
    What was DS's driver doing? Not accompanying him inside, not even waiting outside the car (though it is winter, so maybe he initially tried and got too cold). I guess Doctor really trusted Violante at this point. 

    I'm wondering if Thurman is the average joe Fargo character who makes a few too many terrible choices and it gets him killed (like Martin Freeman, Jesse Plemons, both McGregors, and Mary Elizabeth Winstead) or if he's the poor schmuck who gets abused by the bad guys and suffers terribly as a result (like Oliver Platt and Michael Stuhlbarg). I suppose Kirsten Dunst was something of a cross between those two.
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    i still can't believe Thurman is played by Andrew Bird, still trips me out. i had no idea he even acted.
  • MichelleMichelle California
    edited October 22
    God, Chris Rock was so good in this episode.  So good. 
    And RIP Doctor Senator. :cry:
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