204 - "Down Will Come"

Director: Jeremy Podeswa
Writer: Nic Pizzolatto & Scott Lasser

Still making my way back from Beaver Island, so I won't be able to watch this until tomorrow, but here is your open thread for tonight's episode!
«13

Comments

  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited July 2015
    Still waiting for the stream to go live, but I thought I'd point out one thing I noticed in the re-watch-- regarding the constellation Orion and his missing dong-star.

    In episode 1, when Paul clicks off his headlights and drives blindly ahead, on the horizon there is clearly the Big Dipper, but it is mirrored, implying that the North Star is below he horizon (impossible).  And in Episode 3, when Ray is sitting in the ambulance, there is the same star configuration of shrapnel on his chest, except inverted.

    You could argue that it's more similar to the Little Dipper, which kind of 69's the Big Dipper.  In any event, these constellation easter eggs are no accident.
  • AndrewAndrew New York
    I remember ARon wondering if the date ambiguity could just be a continuity error.

    I know that in the Film, Vanilla Sky, starring Tom Cruise and directed by James Cameron, there was a similar error that people believed to be an Easter egg. The whole movie's premisce was, "what is reality?" Was the movie part dream, all dream, or all real?

    Tom Cruise's car's registration expired 2/30/01. Obviously there's no Feb 30 so ppl took that to be a clue that this scene was a dream. Cameron later said that he didn't even realize it until people pointed it out. It was just a prop error.
  • I made the mistake of watching season 1 episode 4 today, then this. Not even close, on any level.

    Try to think of the huberis it must take to yank a soul out of season 1... and to force a life into this thresher.
  • I have absolutely no clue what everyone is complaining about this season. It seems like the things everything thought were awesome about season 1 are the things that they're pissing on this season. Structurally, it is not been a bad season. I wish everyone would call off the witch hunt for this season. 
    Now, as for this episode, I thought there was great character development for everyone. Paul's trying to force his life into normalcy, Ani's coming to terms with the corruption she's been told to uncover, while realizing exactly what it means, and Velcoro's actually trying to make his life count for something now (?). And while our 3 cops are trying to move towards the light, Frank is forced to return to the dark. A theme I've recognized so far this season is the struggle to come to grips with reality. To overcome what our bias is towards the world, and to see the systems in place for what they really are. 
    Other notes I picked up on this episode
    • No one besides Mayor Chessani could have tipped that guy off right? 
    • Again, more connections are being formed to northern California (Bohemian Grove!) and between all the key players in the background (Chessani Family, Ani's dad, The Good People, the therapist).
    What does everyone else think?
    DaveyMacAntManBeeTravisAmbitiousBukky
  • I think that season two will not be as good as season one. But not too many shows can. I really like watching Frank get back into the business. Hopefully next week he just be in it rather than reassembling his broken business week to week. I am digging the character development for the 3 "cops" and thought episode 4 was kind of a nice call back to the first episode where the three of them surround Caspere's dead body while tonight, the three of them are surrounded by dead bodies. That raid was pretty crazy and the fall out from this is going to set up the second half pretty well. 

    TravisAmbitiousBukky
  • broompersonbroomperson the Iron Islands
    Best episode of the season thus far. I'm really enjoying Pauls character even though he and pretty much every character is completely ridiculous. 

    The dialogue is absolutely ridiculous. When Vince Vaughn got on a knee and started whispering in that guys ear about tooth decay I almost lost it. That scene deserves a Watching Dead style skit. 

    But really i'm enjoying this for the most part and the shoot out didnt out do season 1 of course but it was VERY well done. 
    DaveyMacAntManBeeTravisGarrison66AmbitiousBukky
  • JamesJames southern California
    1. Someone's got a _lot_ of paperwork to fill out!

    2. Reminds me of the North Hollywood Shootout in 1997. Two bank robbers with illegally modified automatic weapons, almost 2000 rounds fired, 15-20 officers + civilians injured (none killed), both robbers dead.

    3. I recognize some elements from season 1 here -- I take it that Paul, Ani, and Ray will be touted as heroes for solving the murder, but they know that there's someone much more powerful behind the whole thing -- that's the case they'll be investigating in the other half of the episodes. Chasing a masked (maybe axe-wielding) murderer through the Bohemian Grove redwoods, anyone?
    DaveyMacTravisAmbitiousBukky
  • It's disappointing that Paul is continuing to lie to his now fiance. It seemed like he was about to tell the truth if she didn't announce her pregnancy. The sham marriage in The Sopranos at least featured love and friendship while Paul is mostly icy with her. I'm still wondering why he was in a relationship with her at all.

    It became comical to me once shoe after shoe began to drop for Ani with her boss. It then seemed of no consequence as she is going to continue with the special investigation anyway.

    I don't know if it's just me, but Ray's voice or accent sounded different especially during the first half of the episode or so. It was kind of cool how he is Batman stalking his son now.

    I couldn't believe that the protesters remained in the area after gun battles, explosions, and even more gunfire. After it was over, I expected Paul, at least, to check for survivors, but oh well.

    The dialogue is still a problem, I've written off Frank's storyline for the moment, and I don't want to see that singer anymore but this episode is better than the first two.   
    DaveyMac
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    Damn fine police work. Damn fine.

    But seriously, that was fucked up. What a horror show clusterfuck. PTSD for everyone. was expecting to end on a crazy note after a slow episode but this took me by surprise. That last still fade-out was awesome and completely captured the "oh fuck" of the situation. Let's see how our heroes will cope with this shit. They still have a freaky cult investigation to attend to.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to rewatch this episode right away :)
    DaveyMacksa1001AntManBeeTravisMichaelAmbitiousBukky
  • I have a theory for the reason why the dialogue has sounded so terrible this season after everyone like it last season. Pizzolatto is a book writer, not a TV writer. In books, you don't have to worry about casting or an actor's performance. In TV, you're supposed to write to the actor's strengths, especially on a show like this where you knew who the actors were going to be before you started writing. If you're completely set on casting Vince Vaughn as Frank (for whatever reason), it's your job as a showrunner to modify the words on the script to help the actor out. As much as Pizzolatto might think otherwise, Vince Vaughn is not Matthew McConaughey. But neither is Rachel McAdams or Colin Farrell or Taylor Kitsch. If you're not going to change the writing for the actors, then you better have incredible actors. Deadwood had stylized dialogue, but it had it coming from the mouths of Timothy Olyphant and Ian McShane and Jim Beaver. Justified had stylized dialogue, but it had it coming from the mouths of Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins. True Detective Season 1 had Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson. I'm sorry, but these actors in Season 2 (except for Kelly Reilly who is the only one I'm buying this season), just can't get the job done. There's a disconnect between the writer and the actors.

    Maybe TD should have cast Timothy Olyphant as Frank.
    DaveyMac
  • I'm still on the fence about the second season but it's cool to spot actors from some favorite shows:

    W. Earl Brown was great on Deadwood.  He plays Ray's scumbag partner on True Detective.

    Abigail Spencer as Ray's ex-wife.  She was the school teacher Don Draper had an affair with on Mad Men.

    Emily Rios was Jesse's girlfriend (the one who gets executed by the white power dudes) on Breaking Bad.

    And I'm pretty sure that guy Ray and Paul shoot dead at the end of the latest episode was the henchman that Tuco beat to death on Breaking Bad.  Right?  Am I right?

     
    jennieDaveyMac
  • That was just fantastic. The action sequence could hardly have been more different than the one at the end of s01e04, except insofar as it left my heart pumping as fast as Velcoro's. And I thought this episode did a good job of injecting the dark humor that I'd been missing from season 1. Paul's awkward and terrible interactions with his one night stand and his new fiance, Velcoro learning about his aura, Frank intimidating people with his dental health, etc. Fucking hilarious.
    DaveyMacAntManBee
  • jenniejennie houston
    edited July 2015
    Yes Cesar Garcia (Ledo Amarilla) was No Doze, one of Tuco's henchman, in Breaking Bad. The explosion in that scene reminded me of Tuco's HQ being blown up. And then Velcoro asks if it was a "cookhouse"... a nod to BrBa?
    DaveyMactom_gsteph_bA_Ron_Hubbard
  • CarnivalArtsCarnivalArts New Orleans
    I think James Frain is behind it somehow. He and the Chief looked like they knew this group of cops was about to get ambushed. Frain also said something in the last episode like "ignore the land deals and focus on the pimps" to Ray, and we know the land deals are the thing.
    steph_b
  • Great ending with the detectives' reactions to all the mayhem before the fade-out. 

    I largely enjoyed the Ani / Velcoro stuff, though Farrell's Batman voice didn't quite fit for me. My favorite non-shootout scene was the one with Ani's Dad and Velcoro's aura. I found that whole scene really entertaining.

    On the fence about the Paul character, but things are getting more interesting with him. Really hard to care about Frank right now as most of his scenes are playing like first-time table reads to me. 

    Still, complaints aside, this is the first episode this season I've been truly invested in. I was bummed to see W. Earl Brown take one to the head, but damn was that a shock in the moment. Really well done.

    Oh and what's up with the singer in the bar? This is the third episode we've seen her in. At first I thought it was just for atmosphere (and it may still be), but her legs are pretty damn bruised up and they really called attention to that. 
    AntManBee
  • I like the season so far, and the episode was very good, but, I'm going to ask again - How did Frank get into this mess??

    In a legitimate transaction, for real estate, with a lawyer's blessing, he gave a potential partner millions of dollars in cash, without an immediate balancing half of the transaction??  Not a signature on a form, receipt, deed, partnership, NOTHING??  I'd understand a smaller amount to fix a bid - the payoff - that makes sense.  Bid fixing = cash.  THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED!!!!  He gave someone $7,000,000.00 in cash to be part of a legitimate land purchase, without any of the paperwork that would protect himself.  No one is that stupid.  Not a single member of this board, no lawyer in the history of lawyering, no one, NO ONE, would do that.

    Has anyone here ever bought a house?  Did you ever feel like you were going pay for the house, but, not really get the house?

    I have watch intently, it has not been explained.  Has not been explained in this forum either.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    tom_g said:

    I like the season so far, and the episode was very good, but, I'm going to ask again - How did Frank get into this mess??

    In a legitimate transaction, for real estate, with a lawyer's blessing, he gave a potential partner millions of dollars in cash, without an immediate balancing half of the transaction??  Not a signature on a form, receipt, deed, partnership, NOTHING??  I'd understand a smaller amount to fix a bid - the payoff - that makes sense.  Bid fixing = cash.  THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED!!!!  He gave someone $7,000,000.00 in cash to be part of a legitimate land purchase, without any of the paperwork that would protect himself.  No one is that stupid.  Not a single member of this board, no lawyer in the history of lawyering, no one, NO ONE, would do that.

    Has anyone here ever bought a house?  Did you ever feel like you were going pay for the house, but, not really get the house?

    I have watch intently, it has not been explained.  Has not been explained in this forum either.
    I'm sure Nic Pizzolatto's writting has "yadda yadda yadda'd" past this already and we're supposed to take it at face value.
    tom_gTravis
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    Frank talking about not having cavities as intimidating gangster dialog is peak season 2. Also, did they really end on a freeze frame or am I imagining that? They should have had Paul and Ray hi-five or had everybody jump in the air at the last second.
    AntManBeeTravisA_Ron_HubbardAmbitiousBukky
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    At least until that final freeze frame. What is this, Magnum P.I.? Not since the series premiere of The Walking Dead ended with a Wang Chung song on the soundtrack has a non-finale episode ending been this baffling. 



    Nope, that was a freeze frame. 
  • This episode was really good, my only problem is they're getting a bit repetitive with Frank's stuff. I get it, he's extorting everyone and is desperate; let's move it forward. The shootout was phenomenal, and I thought it was better than the tracking shot last season. While the single take last season was awesome, it was pretty low-stakes. You didn't care about any of the characters except for Rust, and you knew Rust was going to live. From the moment I saw the first cops head get blown off, I was fearing for Ani, Ray, and Paul's lives and was basically death gripping my couch for the entire 10 minutes. 

    The fallout from what just happened better be insane. It would be really poor writing if this shootout was not at least national news; this would be such a gigantic story. Multiple cops dead, buildings exploding, citizens being mowed down...I'm very excited for next week's episode. 
    AntManBeeksa1001AmbitiousBukky
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.

    Director: Jeremy Podeswa
    Writer: Nic Pizzolatto & Scott Lasser

    Still making my way back from Beaver Island, so I won't be able to watch this until tomorrow, but here is your open thread for tonight's episode!



    Beaver Island, I'm sorry but what the fuck is that, sounds like a swingers retreat. The part in the Christopher Walkin SNL the one with Col. Angus,  "The incident.. at Big Beaver.. " It's true, I'm afraid.. ten men were lost.. and I suffered a great injury.. to my jaw. I goggled it I see what it is but come on.

     






  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited July 2015


    James said:

    1. Someone's got a _lot_ of paperwork to fill out!


    2. Reminds me of the North Hollywood Shootout in 1997. Two bank robbers with illegally modified automatic weapons, almost 2000 rounds fired, 15-20 officers + civilians injured (none killed), both robbers dead.

    3. I recognize some elements from season 1 here -- I take it that Paul, Ani, and Ray will be touted as heroes for solving the murder, but they know that there's someone much more powerful behind the whole thing -- that's the case they'll be investigating in the other half of the episodes. Chasing a masked (maybe axe-wielding) murderer through the Bohemian Grove redwoods, anyone?



    When I was watching the show I mentioned the N. Hollywood shootout to my brother who was there watching too, I remember watching that live when it went down on the news. I was screaming for my roommate to turn on his TV. Anyway if on the next episode the whole place isn't loaded with more cops and FBI, I'm gonna have to call bullshit. That was a CNN in your face 24/7 moment.

    The part where Frank shakes down the hotel guy. I seen that kind of stuff around my old home town(in LA county) a lot. Where people would have a bunch of illegal immigrants and they would sell them shelter and food for the money they made working. I have a few stories about that shit.

    AntManBee
  • I'm sure that it was just me, but did anyone else wish that we could get a time machine and have Inspector Todd from Beverly Hills Cop play Ani's boss? I feel like he would have landed the "I don't care who you fuck so long as you don't find them here and get IA crawling up my ass" portion amazingly. Just a random thought.

     I'll also mirror the sentiment about not getting why so many people are so mad at this season. I'm really enjoying it. I do need to re-watch season 1 to get a comparison, but in a way I'm glad that it's not fresh in my mind. Maybe this season is a little brood-ish, but I'm fine with that. I have real faith that they're building something very cool here and I've been getting progressively more excited from week to week.

    That shoot-out was fucking fierce. Not a ton more to say on the subject, but damn! They done blew up Camp Tikihama guy's head! I'm a little bummed to see him go. I wanted to know more about what he was up to. I'm sure we'll still find out, but I like that actor (name escapes me at the moment) and I liked his character's little snarky lines.

    My wife tried to be me that Ani and Ray would sleep together at some point this season and I told her that I didn't think it would happen, but that I wouldn't take the bet. I'm looking at the cards and I'm super glad that I didn't. That shit seems pretty inevitable.

    AntManBeeksa1001chuck1991
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    Travis said:

     I'll also mirror the sentiment about not getting why so many people are so mad at this season. I'm really enjoying it. I do need to re-watch season 1 to get a comparison, but in a way I'm glad that it's not fresh in my mind. Maybe this season is a little brood-ish, but I'm fine with that. I have real faith that they're building something very cool here and I've been getting progressively more excited from week to week.


    For me and a lot of other people it's mostly the dialog. If you don't buy it it just rips you out of the scene and makes it really hard to care about or empathize with the characters because they feel ridiculous. This is something that is said by a presumably human character in modern day LA:

    "Shouldn't a reasonable man infer, from Osip's arrival, and departure,
    and fucking failure to make good on our terms, as being connected, not
    just to Caspere, but prefiguring Caspere, in a causal sense?"


    All that said it's still interesting (and it got a lot more interesting last night), but it invited the comparisons and giant cloud of one of the best seasons of TV history by being like, the same show.
    Travis
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited July 2015

    @bizmarkiefader I do get the thing about the dialog. It doesn't bother me personally, but I do get it as a legit criticism. My wife actually shouted at the tv last week "Why don't they just talk like real people!?" Personally, I'm glad that not all tv shows have dialogue like that (it would be incredibly obnoxious if they did), but I kind of like it. I enjoy those sort of over the top, literary types of monologues and one on one conversations. The Sorkin-esque constant speech making. There is totally a time and a place for it, but given that these character are really over the top it helps... I guess in an odd way it helps bring me into this story. It is a mechanism for tone setting, kind of a part of the mission statement. That probably all sounds like bullshit, but it's hard to articulate. It just feels right to me. I mean, it hasn't been all home runs and I totally acknowledge that when you take that approach and whiff, you really end up whiffing big and it stands out, but for the most part I have liked it. I totally get why it would be incredibly distracting and annoying though.

    I'm also on an island here, I'm sure, but I liked the "I've never had a cavity in my life" thing. Granted, I thought it was funny and maybe I wasn't supposed to, but either way I did like it.

    AntManBeeAmbitiousBukky
  • That had to be one of the worst frontal assaults by any fictional police in the history of pop culture. Really................ just congregate in one big group like a big tourist group in Washington, D.C. when everyone is wearing get the same shirt, 50 Kevlar vests with the word police moseying down the street oh sure no one will notice...........what the fuck is wrong with them!!!!!!!!!!!! Shouldn't they have planned this out a little fan out, maybe form a perimeter, for Christ sake Jack Bauer could have taken this group out with merely one of those knives Rachel Mccadms seems intent on carrying, and still would have thwarted a terrorist threat before lunch.
    ksa1001firewalker601tom_gAmbitiousBukky
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    @Travis It's not bullshit, it's totally fair to enjoy the dialog for all the reasons you mentioned. If it's actually helping you connect with the characters it's another example of how subjective this all is.
    Travis
  • edited July 2015
    @adobo1148 Agreed. I'm assuming the show wants us to believe the carnage is because of the Vinci brass, but, by judging the on-screen action, it really was the result of Ani failing to properly plan and lead a raid again. I guess her arc will be to not get everyone killed next time.
  • @bizmarkiefader Thanks, man. I more so meant that the explanation would sound like BS (mostly the talk about "mission statements"), but it is true that there is always a little feeling of awkwardness when there is something that is seen as a consensus problem that you're actually in favor of. I don't get too self conscious about it anymore, but I used to in my younger years. Anyhoo, thanks man. I appreciate that.

    DaveyMac
Sign In or Register to comment.