207 - "Black Maps and Motel Rooms"



  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    Travis said:

    It is kind of funny. I wonder if they deal at all with his mother and fiancé, or are they just kind of in the hotel room and that's it.

    I'm sure there will be something for them to do in the finale but at this point revealing the truth about Paul doesn't serve much of a purpose past torturing them. Paul will probably die a "hero" like we talked about in one of the other threads. The whole family subplot feels like it was supposed to make Paul seem more human and help us empathize with him, but I would have liked to hear more about his relationship with the Black Mountain guy instead. The family stuff only made him look like a huge, selfish asshole rather than someone wrestling with who they are vs who they want to be and all that "good man" horse shit.
  • You can't go 0-5 in a 8 episode season. That's the biggest fail of this season by far. So far we are:

    episodes 1-5 crap
    episode 6 good
    episode 7 just okay.
    episode 8?
  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    edited August 2015

    I'm a high ranking political, I go to occult themed parties with prostitution and drugs. I have the kind of connections where I can buy my own private mercs. My ass is so caught up in graft, murder and organized crime. I'm also about to make the biggest deal to create the high speed rail. So one night some rogue cops come and steal the evidence and kill some pawn. So I run to the police and report the murder.

    That is what bothers the hell out of me, I have been thinking about back to last week. If I was in that deep would I want the kind of can of worms that would open with the cops and the media getting involved. You gotta shut this down fast and quite. If the press who follow APBs and BOLOs are gonna flock when they get the slightest wiff. That is just one small take I took from this mess. image

  • rljr said:

    A question, an observation and another question:

    So we know how they framed Ray -- the whole dead DA in the car trick (nice) -- but all Ani's APB says is something like "to question the death/killing of a security guard." I know it's kinda irrelevant but, can we assume that the dead security guard in Ani's APB was actually killed by Woodrugh/Velcoro outside the mansion/sex party? I can't really recall.. did they kill any guards or did they just knock 'em out?

    She killed the guy that she stabbed at the party. She left the knife on the floor with her prints on it. 
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited August 2015

    As for Paul, conveniently his inner demons manifest in an empty warehouse in the form of a paramilitary squad of soldiers for him to kill. Now he never has to deal with the fact that he was fucking over his wife and unborn child with his lies. God forbid anyone on this show ever has to deal with problems in a human way when they can just shoot at them instead.

    I can't argue with any of that. The whole bit with the fiancé makes no sense at all, and that time would totally have been served better on Black Mountain in general and his relationship with his army buddy/lover guy. I'm really liking the show and am more than happy to take up its defense in many areas, but Paul's character arc is a total mess. I like the character of Paul's existence and there was a lot of potential, but they really whiffed on the possibilities. You're totally right. They should have dropped the girlfriend when they initially broke up.

  • Agreed. It would have been more poignant for him to get involved with his lover again and then find out he was betrayed. His accidental baby with a woman he never should've been with was not very compelling. 
  • @rljr Ray pistol whipped one of the guards at least 14 times in the face and/or head before cutting away to the next scene. That could have resulted in death, but, like others have said, Ani's slashing of the guard inside appeared to result in mortal wounds due to blood loss. It could be that the outside guard died as well, but they have no evidence or witnesses to accuse Ray or Paul.

    @kingbee67 That's one way of looking at it, but I buy exercising the criminal prosecution angle for a murderous, rogue cop. It immediately discredits Ani, who already has been demoted, and restricts her from roaming freely to commit more crimes or investigate the conspiracy further. Once she is arrested, they have the ability to get rid of her before she can widely spread word of their deeds. If it does go to trial, none of the witnesses against Ani will be compelled to admit to the nature of the party. It would be the word of a disgraced deputy against prominent officials.

    I have questions about Osip buying the liens to Franks properties. I guess it is different than home ownership, but I imagine that if my bank agreed to sell the lien to my house, the buyer couldn't just show up and kick me out or order me around. Wouldn't the agreement with the former lien holder still have to be honored if Frank is not violating the terms? Is the mayor the former lien holder? Defaulting on the property loans doesn't equal transference of the businesses right? 

    I think it was a hasty decision of Frank to torch the businesses. He could have gotten the courts to settle the dispute. Osip now should be more on guard knowing that Frank has gone wild.     
  • Hatorian said:

    Once again I couldn't hear or understand a lot of the conversation even with the volume turned up. Maybe I am just slow. 
    I use closed captions.  This is also useful on Game of Thrones
  • I can't watch anything without closed captioning these days.Too much mumbling. 
  • dan2988dan2988 manchester uk
    It really annoys me when people say that the plot to this season is complicated and there's too much to follow. It's pretty simple even with one viewing to remember whats going on. It's better than a show that holds your hand and takes you through everything. TV and film that just expects you to keep up is always better. Inception etc. If you can't remember who the guy who shot Paul was then you really haven't been watching! If anything when all was said and done last season was probably too simple and people complained about the loose threads.

    This season has taken its time and sowed its seeds and now that it's starting to tie everything up in an interesting and satisfying way we complain that it's too complicated?? It's a lot cleverer and satisfying than last season (which I personally loved) and I love how NP hasn't given a fuck about slow burning towards a satisfying conclusion because last season he kind of did opposite and got shit for it

    Writers can never win can they?
  • dan2988dan2988 manchester uk
    tvisgreat said:

    Question for the Psychosphere people: With 1 episode left, not one of these Bohemian Grove/constellations out of place/Moloch theories look like they'll be coming true. Just like last season. If it's true that the season was straightforward yet again and people were once again looking for things that weren't actually there, what will be your reaction? Will you want to do it all over again in Season 3? Will you be pissed that you wasted your time? Or will it not really matter one way or the other?

    You're mistaking the fun of the psychosphere for us expecting these things to come true. Like a great novel or mad men these things just add depth and layers to the show. It's a literary device not a foreshadowing and those of us who understand that have fun with it

  • kingbee67kingbee67 Los Angeles Ca.
    @firewalker601 I think they could use all the evidence they stole to open up questions about what was going on. Sure she killed a rent a cop, but why was she there in the first place. I just think that in the world we live in the media would get in on this and questions will be asked. If they just dumped the rent a cop and delt with his family I think that would be a less complex course.

    Are Franks loans the normal kind? When talk about the liens and all that is it the kind of stuff that would hold up in a court. These guys are gangsters I would imagine he gets private funding. When Oseip(whatever) talks about his board I don't think he's talking about the board of a company like we think of. The board wanted Frank dead so this ain't like Disney or Microsoft(well maybe).

  • CoryCory New Scotland

    Once again I couldn't hear or understand a lot of the conversation even with the volume turned up. Maybe I am just slow.

    I turn the subtitles on when I find it hard to heard, still it didn't help me much with this series as I keep finding my eyes closes.
  • dan2988dan2988 manchester uk
    Was it just me that got a vibe that franks wife has also flipped on him like everyone else? Her reaction to the scene in the office was off to me?

    My prediction is Frank will nearly pull off the perfect plan but be betrayed by her in the end. After all we can't really trust redheads in this show
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    dan2988 said:

    Was it just me that got a vibe that franks wife has also flipped on him like everyone else? Her reaction to the scene in the office was off to me?

    Yes, her reaction felt suspicious to me for some reason, and that's coming from someone whose been exhausted while trying to watch every episode.
    dan2988 said:

    After all we can't really trust redheads in this show

    Just what are you trying to insinuate about Chad?
  • dan2988dan2988 manchester uk
    Also I think the dialogue in this show is actually pretty good. It's just different. NP is clearly steeped in literature and was a novelist before true detective. People speak the way they do in novels in this show and I think that makes it different than anything else on TV.

    If you want bad dialogue and writing go watch a network detective show because this isn't that
  • @kingbee67 I get that they are gangsters, but why bring up liens at all if he is just muscling Frank? I would have appreciated dialogue like, "I'm your new landlord and you can work for me or die." I know that it is a nitpick but thanks for responding.
  • Cory said:

    dan2988 said:

    After all we can't really trust redheads in this show

    Just what are you trying to insinuate about Chad?
    Chad is the Yellow King!
  • dan2988dan2988 manchester uk
    Bountlyn said:

    @firewalker601 I was also confused about Frank's diamonds. His are white while the lost ones are blue, hm. Where did he get those white ones? I forgot that.

    I also agree that Paul's story was a letdown. Okay the whole shootout scene was nice to watch but as you perfectly remarked most of the guys Paul kills are nameless mercenaries. That's it. And the whole Blackwater/mountain background - those guys were all there is?? And coincidentally they work on behalf the corrupted police force Holloway and Burris? Hmmmm.

    It's not so much coincidence as plotting. All the plot threads are tying together in an interesting way
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    So next episode we'll learn that Paul is fine, right?  It was just rubber riot bullets?
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    You know...

    As soon as they showed Paul seemingly getting away, I KNEW he was doomed and I had no clue why.

    It occurred to me the following day it was because I've seen it before.

    They basically copied the ending to Leon/The Professional.

    PS: I find it hilarious when people write bad fake dialogue for the show. This is from an EW article (for the card dealing scene):

    “That’s the thing about playing cards, Ray,” he would say. “Sometimes, the cards play you. And sometimes, Ray? Sometimes, the cards aren’t even cards. They’re just numbers. And you never know when your number’s up. And sometimes up is down, so the higher you fly, the closer you get to rock bottom. But I’m coming in hot, Ray, and those rocks are gonna be lava by the time I’m through.”
  • edited August 2015
    That is scarily accurate as fake dialogue.
  • ArctorArctor The Netherlands
    @ksa1001 A dude on reddit pointed out they used Ryan Gosling's license plate from Drive in this episode. There are a lot of parallels between Drive and this episode, it's basically an homage.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    edited August 2015
    I only saw "Drive" once. Didn't hate it like many others, it was very moody. Maybe I'll rewatch it tonight.

    More fake dialogue from that article:

    Frank: “You might say my ship’s come in.”

    Gangster: “And who sails this ship?”

    Frank: “That’s the thing about ships. Sometimes you sail them. Sometimes they sink. But if you want to find treasure in a shipwreck, you have to wreck some ships first. My father told me that. He always thought I was the treasure. But it turns out I’m the shipwreck, and you’re the ocean.”
  • who was the guy that shot Paul?

    What, you don't recognize the Right Hounorable Thomas Cromwell, Earl of Essex? Ya, I probably wouldn't have remembered the face either if he wasn't such an amazing character in The Tudors, but he was definitely around before - I think he's a higher-up with the local police, and presumably the one who was spying on Paul earlier in the episode. As soon as he showed up I was hoping for him to get his murder on, and burn down some monasteries. It's what he does best. If he gets to burn down the pineapple institute I'll be over the moon.
  • dan2988 said:

    Was it just me that got a vibe that franks wife has also flipped on him like everyone else? Her reaction to the scene in the office was off to me?

    My prediction is Frank will nearly pull off the perfect plan but be betrayed by her in the end. After all we can't really trust redheads in this show

    I called her death with the appearance of the Mexican drug gang.
  • ksa1001ksa1001 Plano, TX
    I think she's very loyal to Frank AND one of the best thought out characters...AKA she will definately die.
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    I know everyone thought the "i wanna see your light's go out" line was badass, but all I could think is....hey you stole that from Voldemort...  " I want you to look at me when I kill you! I want to see the light leave your eyes!"
  • aberry89aberry89 California
    When I think back to season one characters, how intimately we knew them, and their thoughts, and how well crafted they were made into full fledged people...this season does not even come close in that department. I feel like the character pool is pretty damn shallow this season. They should have focused directly on one character per episode, and given us a deep look into their lives, and got all of their part of the plot out too.  Paul died, and I felt like I barley knew him, espcially when I think back to home much I knew Rust or Marty, and how much more of an impact it would have made on me, if one of them had died. 
This discussion has been closed.