As much as I loved season one and Rust and Marty I remember thinking towards the end that it wouldn't have bothered me at all if either of them had died. Where as I didn't really have much invested in Paul (I thought) but his death did hit me a bit
@dan2988 To me this was strictly a matter of him quickly going from kicking ass when given a chance to being cheapshotted in the back by fuckin' Thomas Cromwell
One of the biggest reasons I'm displeased with this season is that all of the "detectives" (including Frank) are versions of the bumbling Herc of The Wire. His character embodied the incompetence of the law enforcement system and he was a stumbling block as big or bigger than the criminals the "natural police" had to overcome. Herc was frustrating for me as a secondary character, but our protagonists are engineering a runaway train this season and don't have the benefit of The Bunk or Kima to right their wrongs. I can accept leads who make honest mistakes or good choices with unintended consequences, but from the sex cam raid to the meth house shootout to the escort party, Ani has made poor choice after poor choice when she didn't have to. Paul and Ray have been just as bad as Ani for following her off several cliffs. Ani has been responsible directly and indirectly for as many or more deaths as the so-called villains. The way she rolled tough on Vera by threatening to get her killed by her former pimps as well as her lack of remorse/regret for almost everything leads me to believe that Ani is possibly the Yellow Queen. Who knows if Nic P is brave enough, but it is almost brilliant how convincing she is as a hero.
Anyone notice that Blake said that Osip was backing Caspere to cheat Frank out of the deal but during the sex party, Osip seemed to feign ignorance regarding Caspere's dealings with Frank? It could be a plot hole, but the leads have been running with information that has been dangerously faulty sometimes all season. Why was Ray not concerned about the safety of his family? Did he have access to Paul's phone? Is Ani in danger from her new lover who was tasked from the start to contain the situation?
@ghm3 I think for me it was because he was such a flawed guy. He was burying his true self because he was trying to be a good man in his own fucked up way of thinking which seems to come from a bad childhood. The good man complex is probably why he joined the army as well- if anything he's the complete opposite of Rust because Paul's a guy who never really knew who he was.
I think his lack of a chance for redemption or peace within himself is what got to me, especially when he was crawling and saying 'no' as in 'this isn't how I'm going to die because I still need time to make my life right'. Whether he ever would have is another question which could lead to the conclusion that he has more peace in death at this point.
I know Paul is deep in the closet, but is that really a reason allow oneself to be lured into a death trap? After you know the Assistant DA has been found shot dead in a field? You really don't think anyone is coming for you?
I know Paul is deep in the closet, but is that really a reason allow oneself to be lured into a death trap? After you know the Assistant DA has been found shot dead in a field? You really don't think anyone is coming for you?
I also don't understand why he wants to quash it so bad given that wouldn't it prove him innocent, or at least be solid evidence, against the actress's claims? I know he is like super duper against coming out but it seems like those pictures getting out could only help him currently.
Paul was borderline suicidal already. Remember the scene where he went on the freeway with no helmet and turned his headlight off?
Being in the closet takes a toll on people, I've heard kids kill themselves because of situations connected to that all the time. Pile onto that the bogus lawsuit, his tour of duty PTSD, the massacre we witnessed a few episodes back and the screwed situation our heroes are in and you've got a guy walking willingly into a fucked up situation.
I feel like this whole season would have been much better as a 5 episode miniseries. Or perhaps even a two hour movie.
It just feels like there's been so much tertiary stuff that could have been cut out to make an exciting, compelling, lucid few hours of television. There was a lot of stuff atmospheric additions, like the multiple scenes of people staring at each other for extended periods of time, or the woman singing that just feels unnecessary.
@dan2988 Yeah I totally get that, I just didn't make that connection to actually care about any character in this show that way. I seriously care about Ani's sister more than any main character in this show.
I have to say I really enjoyed the season, all the leads were great, although I'm a tad disappointed so much about Paul's backstory is left untouched and he never had to confront who he really was as a homosexual.
And since I called Frank not knowing about the rapist I'll add onto my other prediction that Chad is the child of Ray. I think the mom already started the paternity test and will only have the rapists DNA to go on. She won't have Rays because she doesn't want him to know she is going for the test, but when it doesn't match the rapists she'll definitely have to confront Ray. Or not confront him, her choice really since Ray said he would stay away.
Early on in the season he may have been suicidal. He seems very engaged and invested in the investigation and helping Ray and Ani. Him crawling on his belly after being shot saying no, f***, no while trying to reach his gun doesn't seem like someone who was ready to go.
Paul was borderline suicidal already. Remember the scene where he went on the freeway with no helmet and turned his headlight off?
Being in the closet takes a toll on people, I've heard kids kill themselves because of situations connected to that all the time. Pile onto that the bogus lawsuit, his tour of duty PTSD, the massacre we witnessed a few episodes back and the screwed situation our heroes are in and you've got a guy walking willingly into a fucked up situation.
@Doctor_Nick Not wanting to be executed like that is an entirely different matter though. And being suicidal doesn't mean you have no survival instincts anymore that kick in when death draws near. Killing yourself is very hard to pull off.
Just listened to this week's podcast. Great analysis as always. But we find out what is going to happen to the money Frank plans to steal from Ossip. There is no missing millions, as you guys were wondering about.
Frank is going to launder the money through the jeweler. But the jeweler requested 40 percent to go through with the deal. That would explain why Frank is only going to take home about $6 million of the $12 million he hopes to steal.
Frank will pay the Turks about $1 million to 2 million for the money he owes, the fake passports and credentials and the guns he requested.
Toward Episode 8, and the question about who dies, I think Ray is going to live based on Season 1 and Pizzolatto's novel Galveston -- both of which have characters who think they're going to die and are ready to die and are confused when, in the end, they don't die.
@HoldenGambles We talked about that 40 percent before the podcast. He doesn't negotiate the percentage until AFTER he mentions the dollar amount of 5 or 6 million... so he couldn't have done the calculation beforehand. The other millions are still up in the air.
@HoldenGambles We talked about that 40 percent before the podcast. He doesn't negotiate the percentage until AFTER he mentions the dollar amount of 5 or 6 million... so he couldn't have done the calculation beforehand. The other millions are still up in the air.
I need to go back and watch that again. I missed that apparently on my two previous watches. I think I was just overwhelmed with the 25 solid minutes of exposition as they rush to tie up all of these disparate, loosely connected-through-extreme-circumstance storylines.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed this entire season was just a mad fever dream of Erroll Childress' dad as he lay dying in that shack in Season 1.
I'm really hoping they tie all of the storylines together in some interesting, clever or meaningful way, but that seems really unlikely at this point.
Maybe the reporter Ray beat up in the first episode will return in episode 8 and explain this entire plot of the season by way of pitching a story about all of this to his editor. Final shot of the season is the camera turning 180 degrees to face the editor for the first time. It's Tyler Durden. "That sounds like complete bullshit, man."
We see a single frame of male genitals and fade to black.
@Jim and @A_Ron_Hubbard - In the podcast both of you talked about how pointless the shootout scene was in episode 4. I kindly disagree, and find that it is important due to revelations in episode 5/6/7.
1) As they leave in Episode 4, Mayor Chessani says, "stay safe out there" (or something like that) all ominously.
2) We learn that Dixon knew about the diamonds and was definitely looking for them.
3) We learn, that the Irina and Ledo really have nothing to do with Caspere and that "some tall skinny cop" gave Irina the goods to pawn.
4) We learn that Holloway, Burris, Dixon, Chessani, and Caspere are all connected to the two orphans, their murdered parents, and the stolen jewels (maybe just diamonds?). Thus don't like that our True Detectives are actually good at their jobs.
Those items together, to me, point to the shootout being a setup where none of our cop friends were meant to survive. I'm not sure I buy that Dixon was taken out by a Black Mountain sniper simply because if that were true, that sniper should have known to take out Paul first. and most likely would have taken out Ray based on how ray held the street as Paul advanced. So my take was that Dixon was killed because he was sloppy and moved slow.
What I do think is that Burris and Chessani had tipped off Ledo and his crew after knowingly setting up the info to lead our True Detective's to that warehouse. They would know the Mexicans would have a lot of firepower and would be hoping for the shoot out would leave most, if not all of our heroes* dead.
*I use the term loosely.
One thing I've noticed with this season is that as each episode comes out, it makes the previous episodes make more sense, or have more weight to the story. Like a true crime drama would, in my opinion. In the news we see someone found dead. Then the revelation of who done it. But what we the masses don't get is all the mundane, day to day, dead end shit that happens during the police work. We don't see the "nothing makes sense until it makes sense" type of things that happen during investigations. But this show is essentially showing us that to a degree. I'm not sure if I'm articulating what I mean well. I'm not saying that rewatching makes the show better. Because I honestly haven't rewatched any episode. I'm saying that as the story unfolds, stuff that was annoying or super confusing in previous episodes now makes sense. Because that's what happens in real life.
I hope my ramblings make some bit of sense!
PS I look forward to the podcast every week. Always great insights and great banter
Those items together, to me, point to the shootout being a setup where none of our cop friends were meant to survive. I'm not sure I buy that Dixon was taken out by a Black Mountain sniper simply because if that were true, that sniper should have known to take out Paul first. and most likely would have taken out Ray based on how ray held the street as Paul advanced. So my take was that Dixon was killed because he was sloppy and moved slow.
What I do think is that Burris and Chessani had tipped off Ledo and his crew after knowingly setting up the info to lead our True Detective's to that warehouse. They would know the Mexicans would have a lot of firepower and would be hoping for the shoot out would leave most, if not all of our heroes* dead.
*I use the term loosely.
One thing I've noticed with this season is that as each episode comes out, it makes the previous episodes make more sense, or have more weight to the story. Like a true crime drama would, in my opinion. In the news we see someone found dead. Then the revelation of who done it. But what we the masses don't get is all the mundane, day to day, dead end shit that happens during the police work. We don't see the "nothing makes sense until it makes sense" type of things that happen during investigations. But this show is essentially showing us that to a degree. I'm not sure if I'm articulating what I mean well. I'm not saying that rewatching makes the show better. Because I honestly haven't rewatched any episode. I'm saying that as the story unfolds, stuff that was annoying or super confusing in previous episodes now makes sense. Because that's what happens in real life.
I feel like your take is entirely plausible, where everybody was supposed to get dead in the shootout. However, I would hate that too. There were so many opportunities to kill these guys that would've been less convoluted and easier to pull off. And then, why let them live for another six months? Because they were going to "walk away" from the closed investigation? That seems like a pretty big loose end that you'd hope just goes away.
Then again, I don't really see the point of framing Ani and Ray either. Again, kill them, get the documents back, be done with it. If you knew they were working with Momma Barksdale, just wait for them all to meet and special ops them.
As per the banal and stodgy aspect of police work; the case and the legwork is really compelling. It's all the other extraneous stuff, like Frank's low level thuggery, the bar scenes, Chucky, etc that have been soporific. And there is a way to bring all of these aspects together in a riveting way. The Wire showed us the intricacies and mundane details of police work in a way that was logical, interesting, and didn't just leave everything up to speculation until I was told, rapid fire, by several characters, all the details.
@HoldenGambles We talked about that 40 percent before the podcast. He doesn't negotiate the percentage until AFTER he mentions the dollar amount of 5 or 6 million... so he couldn't have done the calculation beforehand. The other millions are still up in the air.
But Frank knew that there was going to be a money laundering cost, and he didn't seem surprised at the 40% request. My guess is that his plan was to keep about $2 million in cash to pay off the Turks and presumably Ray and Nails, and to have some cash for the trip. And then he wanted to change the other $10 million into diamonds. The jeweler would take about 40%-50%, leaving Frank with about $5-6 million in diamonds, which was what he asked the jeweler to supply.
Hmmm. Maybe. I just don't think there's enough info to be sure which, to me, says that we're not supposed to know and we will probably figure it out next episode when Frank makes his move.
I'm pretty convinced Jordan is in on it. The whole "Frank pulls the entire heist off and she kills him and rides into the sunset" scenario seems 100% plausible the more I think about it. I hope I'm wrong because I do like their relationship and I don't want A.Ron to lose his shit
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I think his lack of a chance for redemption or peace within himself is what got to me, especially when he was crawling and saying 'no' as in 'this isn't how I'm going to die because I still need time to make my life right'. Whether he ever would have is another question which could lead to the conclusion that he has more peace in death at this point.
Being in the closet takes a toll on people, I've heard kids kill themselves because of situations connected to that all the time. Pile onto that the bogus lawsuit, his tour of duty PTSD, the massacre we witnessed a few episodes back and the screwed situation our heroes are in and you've got a guy walking willingly into a fucked up situation.
And since I called Frank not knowing about the rapist I'll add onto my other prediction that Chad is the child of Ray. I think the mom already started the paternity test and will only have the rapists DNA to go on. She won't have Rays because she doesn't want him to know she is going for the test, but when it doesn't match the rapists she'll definitely have to confront Ray. Or not confront him, her choice really since Ray said he would stay away.