201 - Journey Into Night

245

Comments

  • Is the Delos "big picture" selling immortality or something more nefarious, like a take over the world scenario? If they could replicate a human, they could potentially kill that human and replace them with their host twin. That could include the President and other world leaders, CEOs of the world's largest companies, etc. If Delos replaced all of these people with hosts under their control, they would run the world. And seeing as the rich and powerful are the core demographic of park guests, this doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility. 
    Just found out from reddit that this is exactly the plot of Futureworld, the sequel to the Westworld movie. Does that make it more or less likely to be the plot? I would think they'd want to diverge but they've been building up the "big picture" for an entire season so it must be something with a huge payoff like this. 
  • HunkuleseHunkulese Québec, Canada
    edited April 23
    Michelle said:
    It does lend more weight to the 'two timelines' assumption though.
    I'm not really sure how you could think that we aren't seeing two timelines.

    They straight up say there was a two-week gap to start the episode, we see Bernard as the massacre is happening, and we see the victims of the massacre in a decayed state.
    KingKobra
  • Maybe I'm just a paranoid sumbitch' but if I were running the Delos rescue team, I would have a way of identifying hosts when going in.  If I remember correctly, Stubbs the security guy was taken sometime at the end of last season and so well could be a host now...
    lengmoUnitedinOrangeElisaMelonusk
  • Is the Delos "big picture" selling immortality or something more nefarious, like a take over the world scenario? If they could replicate a human, they could potentially kill that human and replace them with their host twin. That could include the President and other world leaders, CEOs of the world's largest companies, etc. If Delos replaced all of these people with hosts under their control, they would run the world. And seeing as the rich and powerful are the core demographic of park guests, this doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility. 
    Just found out from reddit that this is exactly the plot of Futureworld, the sequel to the Westworld movie. Does that make it more or less likely to be the plot? I would think they'd want to diverge but they've been building up the "big picture" for an entire season so it must be something with a huge payoff like this. 

    Whos to say it isn’t? Also, while it may seem obvious (one of two solutions) we (like Lee) may be missing the bigger picture. I think they’ve said that they are not tying to hide much this season, so if you’re looking for mystery like last season you may be disappointed. 

    Hunkulese said:
    Michelle said:
    It does lend more weight to the 'two timelines' assumption though.
    I'm not really sure how you could think that we aren't seeing two timelines.

    They straight up say there was a two-week gap to start the episode, we see Bernard as the massacre is happening, and we see the victims of the massacre in a decayed state.
    Agreed, to add I think what we saw in the beginning, was after everything we saw tonight and are about to see. We saw at least two scenes that have not happened yet in those flashes. There was a telltale sign that he was brought “online” by Delores (waking from a “Dream”, not remembering what was happening right before). 

    Also, we started AFTER the exfil which we know wouldn’t start until after the scenes we saw with Charlotte. It’s interesting he ended up in the place it all began almost as if it was a set up. 

    If we really think about it, all of the current hosts had to die, so that they could be updated to move parks and or outside of the park itself. Each outside of Maeve and her two companions have explosives still that will go off (Delores might not, but we don’t know about how the originals were set up to not leave). 
    Elisa
  • Well, I guess we know what Ford's huge terraforming machines from last season were for.
    Elisa
  • A good opener

    A tad disappointed Armistice was not in it.
    rkcrawfFlukesmajjam0770
  • cbspockcbspock San Antonio, Texas
    Between the rescue and the massacre, all the hosts are "killed" I guess this means in Season 3 the park can be reset and re-opened?? Should be interesting to see how Delos spins it. The big question is why kill all the hosts? What is the DNA being used for? What is so special about Abernathy? Why him? Why not Delores since she was the first one to become sentient. Did Abernathy see something that Delos wants to pluck out of his memory core? 
  • cbspock said:
    Between the rescue and the massacre, all the hosts are "killed" I guess this means in Season 3 the park can be reset and re-opened?? Should be interesting to see how Delos spins it. The big question is why kill all the hosts? What is the DNA being used for? What is so special about Abernathy? Why him? Why not Delores since she was the first one to become sentient. Did Abernathy see something that Delos wants to pluck out of his memory core? 
    The Abernathy thing is a continuation of a plotline from last season. The data that Delos wants was uploaded into him and he was supposed to leave the park.
    Elisa
  • cbspock said:
    Between the rescue and the massacre, all the hosts are "killed" I guess this means in Season 3 the park can be reset and re-opened?? Should be interesting to see how Delos spins it. The big question is why kill all the hosts? What is the DNA being used for? What is so special about Abernathy? Why him? Why not Delores since she was the first one to become sentient. Did Abernathy see something that Delos wants to pluck out of his memory core? 
    The Abernathy thing is a continuation of a plotline from last season. The data that Delos wants was uploaded into him and he was supposed to leave the park.
    It seems a lot of people forgot that ;) 
    Elisamajjam0770
  • gguenotgguenot CA
    edited April 23
    So I thought, until they revealed it was Abernathy, that Maeve was supposed to be the package since her code was rewritten to have her leave the island. Was Maeve meant to be a tool of Fords that he could use to destroy any data that was successful in leaving the park?
    lengmoMurderbearMichelleElisahisdudeness915Melonusk
  • edited April 23
    Hunkulese said:
    Michelle said:
    It does lend more weight to the 'two timelines' assumption though.
    I'm not really sure how you could think that we aren't seeing two timelines.

    They straight up say there was a two-week gap to start the episode, we see Bernard as the massacre is happening, and we see the victims of the massacre in a decayed state.
    That is the thing I couldn’t get out of my head is if there were maggots on the bodies it would have been a decent amount of time.
  • tabs64 said:
    A good opener

    A tad disappointed Armistice was not in it.
    Yes!!! If Hugo is alive then she has to be somewhere with one arm killing people.
  • I will need to watch that again. I liked it, but I wasn't 100% sure what I saw. 

    I was at first a bit confused on the timelines. I don't think there was a lot of jumping around though. Mostly the 11 day period, right?
    Are all the hosts "woke?" I got the feeling that the failsafes are off, but some are still just playing out their roles. 
    I was also confused as to what high-ranking DELOS board members wouldn't have been at the massacre? Maybe some escaped? I'd think anyone important would be at a corporate function like that.

    Random social commentary...watching the carnage (esp by the pool) kicked in a thought for me. I'm not one of those people that blame video games or movies for the acts of violence that criminals/psychos/terrorists carry out. But watching that scene, I do realize that I was desensitized to seeing it on a show. I was left wondering what (if anything) the show wanted me to feel by seeing it? If it was shock, I won't say I was shocked by it. More saddened that I wasn't shocked. Or if the director is just trying to convey a sense of the carnage without expecting any feeling from the audience. 

    Looking forward to a rewatch...
    Elisamajjam0770
  • I really liked this first episode.  It's no House of Cards 2.1, but I felt like this episode has set the table really well.  Bernard felt really natural.  How does a Host respond to what is happening?  

    But What I wanted to discuss was the soundtrack.  The parts where Bernard is walking around with troops had this distinct Annihilation/Blade Runner 2049 vibe. Did anyone else notice that?  Is this the new trend for Sci-Fi soundtracks?
    Melonusk
  • GeorgeGeorge Astoria, New York
    edited April 23
    Much theorizing inside:

    I'm usually the last person to theorize this wildly on internet message boards, but this just kind of came to me as I was thinking a lot about Arnold and the questions that we're placed before us this episode. Hope this is cool, and y'all don't run me out of here for jumping the gun.

    Does Bernard have Arnold's DNA? How was he not flagged by any of the hosts as also being a host? I think these questions will be a major crux of what the story will become this season.

    Now, Bernard is a recreation of Arnold, but what if Bernard was an altered version of Arnold? What if there was a power struggle, and Ford replaced Bernard just as we suspected...but instead of building him from the ground up, what if he transitioned Bernard in an attempt to create the perfect mix of human and machine?

    They definitely wanted you to notice the DNA thing. Along with those white worker hosts not being able to pick up that he's also a host. The fact that he was able to blend in tells me there's something very different about Bernard.

    My thought was that he was more human than we had initially thought this episode. Totally spitballing here, but I'm willing to bet that the wife we saw him speaking to was really Bernard's wife. Could be that she doesn't know what went down or that the video he's interacting with is just artificial intelligence, but I find it hard to believe that the backstory we got so much of last year isn't all fake. Could Ford have been experimenting in trying to blend the two to emphasize the strengths of both humans (individual thought, compassion) and robots (intelligence/strength ratings off the charts). Using a real cornerstone of the pain from the death of his son to spur him on and use him to incite and enable a robot uprising.

    I also noticed they made a pretty big deal about Bernard seeing the removal of what would be considered their brain. Makes me wonder if there's anything different going on inside of his head. Something tells me they've established those 'brains' to throw us a curveball in how different Bernard is built.

    I'm just spitballing here, but I do think we'll learn a lot more about what Bernard/Arnold really is.


    Would really like to hear you guys' take on this on the pod if you have the time.
  • Podcast question - I only got the first 15:58 of the case download Ed even though I've logged into Overcast w my Club login. Anyone else? I know this is a bit new (thought the same process as Movies) Had to go to the web and listen via the YouTube link the the remaining
  • I really liked this first episode.  It's no House of Cards 2.1, but I felt like this episode has set the table really well.  Bernard felt really natural.  How does a Host respond to what is happening?  

    But What I wanted to discuss was the soundtrack.  The parts where Bernard is walking around with troops had this distinct Annihilation/Blade Runner 2049 vibe. Did anyone else notice that?  Is this the new trend for Sci-Fi soundtracks?
    The soundtrack is done by none other than Ramin Djawadi. You may know him from TV shows such as Game of Thrones (not very well known HBO show). He has done an excellent job in the shows and movies he’s scored/been lead on. 
    MichelleMurderbear
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    edited April 23
    @Michelle that was weird.  I was just now skimming through the Instant Talk and I saw you say "hi cdrive!" and I thought 'huh? that's weird, I wasn't on Instant Talk'  and then I see someone in instant talk with the name "C \"
    Don't know who that is, but it's not me.  I would've said Hi back!
    Michelle
  • cdrive said:
    @Michelle that was weird.  I was just now skimming through the Instant Talk and I saw you say "hi cdrive!" and I thought 'huh? that's weird, I wasn't on Instant Talk'  and then I see someone in instant talk with the name "C \"
    Don't know who that is, but it's not me.  I would've said Hi back!
    Likely story...I think we may have found a host that has infiltrated our group.  
    cdriveMichelle
  • MichelleMichelle California
    edited April 23
    cdrive said:
    @Michelle that was weird.  I was just now skimming through the Instant Talk and I saw you say "hi cdrive!" and I thought 'huh? that's weird, I wasn't on Instant Talk'  and then I see someone in instant talk with the name "C \"
    Don't know who that is, but it's not me.  I would've said Hi back!
    Yeah, I totally thought that was you!
    cdrive
  • Something I haven’t seen mentioned here, but did briefly hear @A_Ron_Hubbard mention on the instant watch. For the initial interview scene between Dolores and Bernard A_Ron said he thought it was an “old” interview (I’m guessing since it matched up with what we saw last season). My thought is though that this is happening in the future. Dolores brought Bernard back online and he was waking from “a dream” which is what Dolores often said to him last season. During some of the “flashes” we also saw things that have yet to happen yet (although some was shown in trailers). This also seemed like she was interviewing him instead of the other way around. While it seemed like a foretelling, I think this is Dolores helping Bernard remember how he got there and finding the center of the Maze for him. Ever since he’s become aware it’s been a struggle for him, itneould only make sense that Dolores would be the one to “free” him as he freed her. 
    Elisarkcrawf
  • MichelleMichelle California
    I meant to bring this up last night, but it was good to see Carly Wray credited as a writer for this episode.  She wrote some of the best episodes of Mad Men, so I'm glad to see her writing for WW.
  • ElisaElisa Los Angeles
    tabs64 said:
    A good opener

    A tad disappointed Armistice was not in it.
    Yes!!! If Hugo is alive then she has to be somewhere with one arm killing people.



    Yes, Hector is alive...we should see Armistice soon.   B)
  • KingKobra said:
    Something I haven’t seen mentioned here, but did briefly hear @A_Ron_Hubbard mention on the instant watch. For the initial interview scene between Dolores and Bernard A_Ron said he thought it was an “old” interview (I’m guessing since it matched up with what we saw last season). My thought is though that this is happening in the future. Dolores brought Bernard back online and he was waking from “a dream” which is what Dolores often said to him last season. During some of the “flashes” we also saw things that have yet to happen yet (although some was shown in trailers). This also seemed like she was interviewing him instead of the other way around. While it seemed like a foretelling, I think this is Dolores helping Bernard remember how he got there and finding the center of the Maze for him. Ever since he’s become aware it’s been a struggle for him, itneould only make sense that Dolores would be the one to “free” him as he freed her. 
    My take on this scene was that this was Arnold talking to Dolores shortly after the death of his son (given how distraught he seems). I think this shift in Arnold's drive is what lead to his attachment to bringing consciousness to the hosts, and ultimately his suicide.

    Barring that Bernard isn't completely reset I would think some of the dialogue would be clunky if the convo happened in the future. And, to me, it seems like Evan Rachel Wood is doing a good early stage robot. That said, the "dream" does seem to tie to the scene at the end of the episode, could just be foreshadowing, could be a ruse. I guess you can never tell with this show.
    ElisaMurderbear
  • tabs64 said:
    A good opener

    A tad disappointed Armistice was not in it.
    Yes!!! If Hugo is alive then she has to be somewhere with one arm killing people.
    True mate.

    And also those 2 tech guys - where are they ?
  • edited April 23
    KingKobra said:
    Something I haven’t seen mentioned here, but did briefly hear @A_Ron_Hubbard mention on the instant watch. For the initial interview scene between Dolores and Bernard A_Ron said he thought it was an “old” interview (I’m guessing since it matched up with what we saw last season). My thought is though that this is happening in the future. Dolores brought Bernard back online and he was waking from “a dream” which is what Dolores often said to him last season. During some of the “flashes” we also saw things that have yet to happen yet (although some was shown in trailers). This also seemed like she was interviewing him instead of the other way around. While it seemed like a foretelling, I think this is Dolores helping Bernard remember how he got there and finding the center of the Maze for him. Ever since he’s become aware it’s been a struggle for him, itneould only make sense that Dolores would be the one to “free” him as he freed her. 
    My take on this scene was that this was Arnold talking to Dolores shortly after the death of his son (given how distraught he seems). I think this shift in Arnold's drive is what lead to his attachment to bringing consciousness to the hosts, and ultimately his suicide.

    Barring that Bernard isn't completely reset I would think some of the dialogue would be clunky if the convo happened in the future. And, to me, it seems like Evan Rachel Wood is doing a good early stage robot. That said, the "dream" does seem to tie to the scene at the end of the episode, could just be foreshadowing, could be a ruse. I guess you can never tell with this show.
    I would also be on the “past” if it weren’t for the “dream” statement tied with the flashbacks/forward of things that are yet to come or have already happened. He didn’t seem to be “leading” the convo either. With Bernard’s cornerstone being thebpain of his sons death, it makes it hard to differentiate;) however, Arnold seemed much more “active” in “pushing” Dolores and here we have Dolores counteracting a statement from Bernarnold which means (to me) she was much farther along the conscious track than when we saw their interactions last year. To me it would conflict with the timeline of her “awakening”. 

    I guess wenwill just have to keep watching to see how it unfolds. 
    Doctor_Nick
  • hisdudeness915hisdudeness915 Atlanta, Ga
    @MrX  Holy shit! That was terrifying!!!
  • @KingKobra Indeed. Either way, it looks like we're getting more in-depth with Bernarnold this season, which is exciting. Something I'm really curious about now is the flash we see of Bernard and Dolores in civilian clothes. At first, I assumed it was Bernard doing some type of exfiltration with her, but rewatching the scene shows them both at ease, smiling and seemingly happy. I wonder if we have more of Dolores and Bernards past in store, or if Dolores was even based on a human.
    KingKobraElisa
  • tpelzytpelzy Dallas
    Two observations and a questions. 

    First I thought the opening shot of Bernard on the beach was a nice homage to Inception, one the Christopher Nolan movies that John Nolan didn't work on. 

    Also, it was a little on the nose, but appreciated the symbolism of a Native American host being scalped in order to get his "brain" out. Instead of being massacred for land and resources the hosts are exploited to help gather data for Delos. 

    I'm confused about which hosts can attack humans. Delores and Maeve, at least, are "woke" so they attack whoever they want. I assume the hosts from cold storage were specifically programmed  to attack the gala, but then we see other hosts attack humans. And some hosts like the stable hand, young Ford, and animals apparently still show no aggression. 
    Elisa
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