Some of us are embarrassed by what Trump does (when he makes speeches I almost always have to chuckle or have my head in my hands cause he just speaks in superlatives) a lot of the time. That said, he is also doing a lot of things that make conservatives happy. You call it racism, they call it enforcing immigration laws. You say it's an attack on women and minorities to appoint Kavanaugh, they call it a damn good choice for the Supreme Court (who i still don't think will vote against Roe v. Wade).
You want to throw hate at someone then aim it at Clinton and the DCCC for screwing over Bernie in the primaries. Throw it at the people who constantly shout "impeach 45" because they are just hardening Trump's support on the right. Throw it at the people who keep pulling the Democratic party further and further to the left, thereby scarring the shit out of moderates and independents. I would actually be tempted to vote for Biden in 2020 but the way things are going he will be slandered as too conservative by the time the primaries roll around and you will have a fire breathing Democratic Socialist as your candidate and then Trump will be assured of a second term.
anubus21 is speaking truth here. Earlier today, a coworker and I were trying to figure out who the Dems can put up as a viable presidential candidate. Kamala Harris may be the most electable with the least amount of baggage but I'm not sure she's ready for a presidential run quite yet.
They'll need a good candidate for sure, but I think people will be voting against Trump and not necessarily for someone.
Yep, Dems were saying this last election and turns out it's not how it works. You don't need a good candidate if enough people will vote against someone. @joejerryronnie
Some of us are embarrassed by what Trump does (when he makes speeches I almost always have to chuckle or have my head in my hands cause he just speaks in superlatives) a lot of the time. That said, he is also doing a lot of things that make conservatives happy. You call it racism, they call it enforcing immigration laws. You say it's an attack on women and minorities to appoint Kavanaugh, they call it a damn good choice for the Supreme Court (who i still don't think will vote against Roe v. Wade).
You want to throw hate at someone then aim it at Clinton and the DCCC for screwing over Bernie in the primaries. Throw it at the people who constantly shout "impeach 45" because they are just hardening Trump's support on the right. Throw it at the people who keep pulling the Democratic party further and further to the left, thereby scarring the shit out of moderates and independents. I would actually be tempted to vote for Biden in 2020 but the way things are going he will be slandered as too conservative by the time the primaries roll around and you will have a fire breathing Democratic Socialist as your candidate and then Trump will be assured of a second term.
anubus21 is speaking truth here. Earlier today, a coworker and I were trying to figure out who the Dems can put up as a viable presidential candidate. Kamala Harris may be the most electable with the least amount of baggage but I'm not sure she's ready for a presidential run quite yet.
They'll need a good candidate for sure, but I think people will be voting against Trump and not necessarily for someone.
Yep, Dems were saying this last election and turns out it's not how it works. You don't need a good candidate if enough people will vote against someone. @joejerryronnie
The problem I see with the "anyone but him" strategy is that the Dems tried it already in 2004 against Bush and it failed. A great resource for that is An Unreasonable Man, the doco about Ralph Nader. I may not agree with everything Nader says or believes in but it's a great documentary and he talks about how the Dems slandered him up and down for what happened in 2000 (and it talks about his career as a whole, a great watch). The part that pertains to my point comes when he talks about how the "anyone but bush" push meant that if Kerry won he would have no mandate for governing. Who would he have represented? The left, or the disenfranchised moderates or independents?
Say that Kamala Harris were to run and win, and it was a lot of "anyone but Trump" votes that turn the tide in her favor, then who will she be representing? A lot of the "anyone but Trump" voters are going to be moderates/Independents who she won't have any loyalty to or speak to their issues. She will be a liberal President much like Obama, and 4 years down the line she will lose because those "anyone but Trump" voters will feel like they were left out in the cold and ignored. They need a moderate Dem who can speak to the middle and the liberal base of the Democratic party. I just don't know if there is anyone who can do that anymore since that gap is becoming a problem. Some Dems see the problem they are facing in the midterms and 2020....https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/12/moderate-democrats-push-back-against-wild-eyed-leftward-lurch-party/777600002/ ;
Some of us are embarrassed by what Trump does (when he makes speeches I almost always have to chuckle or have my head in my hands cause he just speaks in superlatives) a lot of the time. That said, he is also doing a lot of things that make conservatives happy. You call it racism, they call it enforcing immigration laws. You say it's an attack on women and minorities to appoint Kavanaugh, they call it a damn good choice for the Supreme Court (who i still don't think will vote against Roe v. Wade).
You want to throw hate at someone then aim it at Clinton and the DCCC for screwing over Bernie in the primaries. Throw it at the people who constantly shout "impeach 45" because they are just hardening Trump's support on the right. Throw it at the people who keep pulling the Democratic party further and further to the left, thereby scarring the shit out of moderates and independents. I would actually be tempted to vote for Biden in 2020 but the way things are going he will be slandered as too conservative by the time the primaries roll around and you will have a fire breathing Democratic Socialist as your candidate and then Trump will be assured of a second term.
anubus21 is speaking truth here. Earlier today, a coworker and I were trying to figure out who the Dems can put up as a viable presidential candidate. Kamala Harris may be the most electable with the least amount of baggage but I'm not sure she's ready for a presidential run quite yet.
They'll need a good candidate for sure, but I think people will be voting against Trump and not necessarily for someone.
Yep, Dems were saying this last election and turns out it's not how it works. You don't need a good candidate if enough people will vote against someone. @joejerryronnie
The problem I see with the "anyone but him" strategy is that the Dems tried it already in 2004 against Bush and it failed. A great resource for that is An Unreasonable Man, the doco about Ralph Nader. I may not agree with everything Nader says or believes in but it's a great documentary and he talks about how the Dems slandered him up and down for what happened in 2000 (and it talks about his career as a whole, a great watch). The part that pertains to my point comes when he talks about how the "anyone but bush" push meant that if Kerry won he would have no mandate for governing. Who would he have represented? The left, or the disenfranchised moderates or independents?
Say that Kamala Harris were to run and win, and it was a lot of "anyone but Trump" votes that turn the tide in her favor, then who will she be representing? A lot of the "anyone but Trump" voters are going to be moderates/Independents who she won't have any loyalty to or speak to their issues. She will be a liberal President much like Obama, and 4 years down the line she will lose because those "anyone but Trump" voters will feel like they were left out in the cold and ignored. They need a moderate Dem who can speak to the middle and the liberal base of the Democratic party. I just don't know if there is anyone who can do that anymore since that gap is becoming a problem. Some Dems see the problem they are facing in the midterms and 2020....https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/12/moderate-democrats-push-back-against-wild-eyed-leftward-lurch-party/777600002/ ;
"Who will they be representing?" Huh? That question doesn't need to be answered when placing a vote.
But maybe you're not saying that it does. Maybe you're saying this mentality will just bite the candidate during re-election, except you initially said it's a hindrance to being elected in the first place. You say essentially (if I may), "The problem with that is it didn't work one time when I believe people were also trying it." Okay, fine. My response would be essentially, "It's not the same."
I think it's both a hindrance to being elected and if they do win then I think it will come back to bite them during re-election. True, the 2020 election won't be the same as 2004 because the country is more polarized and the President is much more despised by the left.
That said I see only two options...Dems win and swing the country to the hard left, resulting in a backlash from moderates/independents in 2024 that will see them ousted from the White House, or Trump wins and we see a repeat of 2008 in 2024 and Dems will end up in control of the presidency and both houses of Congress. Of course if Trump wins in 2020 I think the Left will have a collective coronary and we could realistically be looking at a political/cultural civil war in this country.
Sadly, the majority of the country is still firmly planted in the middle but the two extremist arms of the Republicans and Democrats hold sway. Anyone know any good independent candidates that have made headlines or could be serious contenders?????????
@emnofseattle - Because of the Thai cave thing, I've sought out some cave horror stuff. I don't really scare easily, but this podcast episode has kept me awake the last 2 nights. I look like shit right now. It was very, very good. I will say the thing that spooked me doesn't have anything to do with claustrophobia, so I'm not convinced you'll be scared or anything. I enjoyed the claustrophobia parts though. Scratched that itch. But it also left me with a little something extra, fuck it.
I think it's both a hindrance to being elected and if they do win then I think it will come back to bite them during re-election. True, the 2020 election won't be the same as 2004 because the country is more polarized and the President is much more despised by the left.
That said I see only two options...Dems win and swing the country to the hard left, resulting in a backlash from moderates/independents in 2024 that will see them ousted from the White House, or Trump wins and we see a repeat of 2008 in 2024 and Dems will end up in control of the presidency and both houses of Congress. Of course if Trump wins in 2020 I think the Left will have a collective coronary and we could realistically be looking at a political/cultural civil war in this country.
Sadly, the majority of the country is still firmly planted in the middle but the two extremist arms of the Republicans and Democrats hold sway. Anyone know any good independent candidates that have made headlines or could be serious contenders?????????
When it comes to the liberal spectrum, I go all over. I don't mind if someone is "classically" liberal or extreme liberal. So the idea of an extremist arm of Democrats holding sway doesn't bother me, nor am I looking for a moderate. I know your last question wasn't addressed only to me but I felt like answering it. The main things I admire in politicians are honestly held beliefs (hard to judge) and competence (less hard to judge).
I think it's both a hindrance to being elected and if they do win then I think it will come back to bite them during re-election. True, the 2020 election won't be the same as 2004 because the country is more polarized and the President is much more despised by the left.
That said I see only two options...Dems win and swing the country to the hard left, resulting in a backlash from moderates/independents in 2024 that will see them ousted from the White House, or Trump wins and we see a repeat of 2008 in 2024 and Dems will end up in control of the presidency and both houses of Congress. Of course if Trump wins in 2020 I think the Left will have a collective coronary and we could realistically be looking at a political/cultural civil war in this country.
Sadly, the majority of the country is still firmly planted in the middle but the two extremist arms of the Republicans and Democrats hold sway. Anyone know any good independent candidates that have made headlines or could be serious contenders?????????
When it comes to the liberal spectrum, I go all over. I don't mind if someone is "classically" liberal or extreme liberal. So the idea of an extremist arm of Democrats holding sway doesn't bother me, nor am I looking for a moderate. I know your last question wasn't addressed only to me but I felt like answering it. The main things I admire in politicians are honestly held beliefs (hard to judge) and competence (less hard to judge).
I'm more looking for a Bill Clinton type democrat....for all his faults he was a good President and the economy prospered. He was able to work with Republicans on some issues and compromise in other areas. He's a shit when it comes to women but was a great politician and leader.
I have trouble trusting the judgement of grown adults who eat like a picky toddler. This might just be the most damning thing I've seem about Kavanaugh.
"[W]hen it came to food, the future Supreme Court pick found hardly anything palatable, Christmas said. Kavanaugh was a “bland eater,” his roommate explained, who never ate his pasta with anything more exotic than tomato sauce or ketchup on top. [...] “When he had spaghetti sauce, it was ragu — he didn’t want anything spicier than that,” Hartmann added."
I think it's both a hindrance to being elected and if they do win then I think it will come back to bite them during re-election. True, the 2020 election won't be the same as 2004 because the country is more polarized and the President is much more despised by the left.
That said I see only two options...Dems win and swing the country to the hard left, resulting in a backlash from moderates/independents in 2024 that will see them ousted from the White House, or Trump wins and we see a repeat of 2008 in 2024 and Dems will end up in control of the presidency and both houses of Congress. Of course if Trump wins in 2020 I think the Left will have a collective coronary and we could realistically be looking at a political/cultural civil war in this country.
Sadly, the majority of the country is still firmly planted in the middle but the two extremist arms of the Republicans and Democrats hold sway. Anyone know any good independent candidates that have made headlines or could be serious contenders?????????
When it comes to the liberal spectrum, I go all over. I don't mind if someone is "classically" liberal or extreme liberal. So the idea of an extremist arm of Democrats holding sway doesn't bother me, nor am I looking for a moderate. I know your last question wasn't addressed only to me but I felt like answering it. The main things I admire in politicians are honestly held beliefs (hard to judge) and competence (less hard to judge).
I'm more looking for a Bill Clinton type democrat....for all his faults he was a good President and the economy prospered. He was able to work with Republicans on some issues and compromise in other areas. He's a shit when it comes to women but was a great politician and leader.
Would you vote for an independent?
I've voted for libertarians in 2 of my 3 eligible presidential elections, does that count? A lot of that was the principle of the thing.
The sheer volume of scandal from the administration is having a numbing effect and keeping the press from the ability to really drill-down and focus on any of them which is either due to incompetence or by design. Just in the last 30 days we’ve had: - Former Campaign Chairman jailed without bail due to attempted witness tampering ahead of his two pending trials this year - Children of asylum seekers separated from parents and detained in private for-profit detention facilities - EPA secretary resignation in cloud of scandal and corruption - Former HHS secretary slammed for similar overspending while in office - NATO broken and then declared fixed the next day - UK Pime Minister relationship broken and then declared fixed the next day - NK welching on nuclear agreement and Un refusing to meet with Secretary of State - NK no-showing without explanation on meeting for return of remains - This circus with Strzok in the House
I’m forgetting many also, but this opposite philosophy of No-Drama-Obama is depressingly effective.
The irony is that if the Republicans had superdelegates, they may have been able to prevent Trump.
And thus would’ve lost the election.
tfw having a racist fascist piece of shit potus who attacks gold star families is better than having a lady president
Since Trump is not a racist or a fascist, Trump is a market conservative and thus cannot be a fascist by definition, and the only gold star family he attacked were people who had directly criticized him, and used their status as a gold star family to criticize him on issues unrelated to that status. Perhaps the wrong way about it, but you can’t level allegations on someone in public and be upset You get a response.
Some of us are embarrassed by what Trump does (when he makes speeches I almost always have to chuckle or have my head in my hands cause he just speaks in superlatives) a lot of the time. That said, he is also doing a lot of things that make conservatives happy. You call it racism, they call it enforcing immigration laws. You say it's an attack on women and minorities to appoint Kavanaugh, they call it a damn good choice for the Supreme Court (who i still don't think will vote against Roe v. Wade).
You want to throw hate at someone then aim it at Clinton and the DCCC for screwing over Bernie in the primaries. Throw it at the people who constantly shout "impeach 45" because they are just hardening Trump's support on the right. Throw it at the people who keep pulling the Democratic party further and further to the left, thereby scarring the shit out of moderates and independents. I would actually be tempted to vote for Biden in 2020 but the way things are going he will be slandered as too conservative by the time the primaries roll around and you will have a fire breathing Democratic Socialist as your candidate and then Trump will be assured of a second term.
anubus21 is speaking truth here. Earlier today, a coworker and I were trying to figure out who the Dems can put up as a viable presidential candidate. Kamala Harris may be the most electable with the least amount of baggage but I'm not sure she's ready for a presidential run quite yet.
They'll need a good candidate for sure, but I think people will be voting against Trump and not necessarily for someone.
Assuming there’s a major groundswelling of opposition against Trump which hasn’t actually materialized since he’s taken office
The irony is that if the Republicans had superdelegates, they may have been able to prevent Trump.
And thus would’ve lost the election.
tfw having a racist fascist piece of shit potus who attacks gold star families is better than having a lady president
Since Trump is not a racist or a fascist, Trump is a market conservative and thus cannot be a fascist by definition, and the only gold star family he attacked were people who had directly criticized him, and used their status as a gold star family to criticize him on issues unrelated to that status. Perhaps the wrong way about it, but you can’t level allegations on someone in public and be upset You get a response.
Some of us are embarrassed by what Trump does (when he makes speeches I almost always have to chuckle or have my head in my hands cause he just speaks in superlatives) a lot of the time. That said, he is also doing a lot of things that make conservatives happy. You call it racism, they call it enforcing immigration laws. You say it's an attack on women and minorities to appoint Kavanaugh, they call it a damn good choice for the Supreme Court (who i still don't think will vote against Roe v. Wade).
You want to throw hate at someone then aim it at Clinton and the DCCC for screwing over Bernie in the primaries. Throw it at the people who constantly shout "impeach 45" because they are just hardening Trump's support on the right. Throw it at the people who keep pulling the Democratic party further and further to the left, thereby scarring the shit out of moderates and independents. I would actually be tempted to vote for Biden in 2020 but the way things are going he will be slandered as too conservative by the time the primaries roll around and you will have a fire breathing Democratic Socialist as your candidate and then Trump will be assured of a second term.
anubus21 is speaking truth here. Earlier today, a coworker and I were trying to figure out who the Dems can put up as a viable presidential candidate. Kamala Harris may be the most electable with the least amount of baggage but I'm not sure she's ready for a presidential run quite yet.
They'll need a good candidate for sure, but I think people will be voting against Trump and not necessarily for someone.
Assuming there’s a major groundswelling of opposition against Trump which hasn’t actually materialized since he’s taken office
The irony is that if the Republicans had superdelegates, they may have been able to prevent Trump.
And thus would’ve lost the election.
tfw having a racist fascist piece of shit potus who attacks gold star families is better than having a lady president
Since Trump is not a racist or a fascist, Trump is a market conservative and thus cannot be a fascist by definition, and the only gold star family he attacked were people who had directly criticized him, and used their status as a gold star family to criticize him on issues unrelated to that status. Perhaps the wrong way about it, but you can’t level allegations on someone in public and be upset You get a response.
Some of us are embarrassed by what Trump does (when he makes speeches I almost always have to chuckle or have my head in my hands cause he just speaks in superlatives) a lot of the time. That said, he is also doing a lot of things that make conservatives happy. You call it racism, they call it enforcing immigration laws. You say it's an attack on women and minorities to appoint Kavanaugh, they call it a damn good choice for the Supreme Court (who i still don't think will vote against Roe v. Wade).
You want to throw hate at someone then aim it at Clinton and the DCCC for screwing over Bernie in the primaries. Throw it at the people who constantly shout "impeach 45" because they are just hardening Trump's support on the right. Throw it at the people who keep pulling the Democratic party further and further to the left, thereby scarring the shit out of moderates and independents. I would actually be tempted to vote for Biden in 2020 but the way things are going he will be slandered as too conservative by the time the primaries roll around and you will have a fire breathing Democratic Socialist as your candidate and then Trump will be assured of a second term.
anubus21 is speaking truth here. Earlier today, a coworker and I were trying to figure out who the Dems can put up as a viable presidential candidate. Kamala Harris may be the most electable with the least amount of baggage but I'm not sure she's ready for a presidential run quite yet.
They'll need a good candidate for sure, but I think people will be voting against Trump and not necessarily for someone.
Assuming there’s a major groundswelling of opposition against Trump which hasn’t actually materialized since he’s taken office
Fake news. Someone obviously took a pic of Trump's inauguration - the largest gathering of people in human history - and photoshopped in some anti-Trump signs
The irony is that if the Republicans had superdelegates, they may have been able to prevent Trump.
And thus would’ve lost the election.
tfw having a racist fascist piece of shit potus who attacks gold star families is better than having a lady president
Since Trump is not a racist or a fascist, Trump is a market conservative and thus cannot be a fascist by definition, and the only gold star family he attacked were people who had directly criticized him, and used their status as a gold star family to criticize him on issues unrelated to that status. Perhaps the wrong way about it, but you can’t level allegations on someone in public and be upset You get a response.
Trump is a racist.
Can we get your definition of racist? Last time I checked he wasn’t spitting out racist verbiage at people, or passing jim crow laws or say he hates colored folks. Please site specific examples and not use emotional arguments. Seriously am curious...
The irony is that if the Republicans had superdelegates, they may have been able to prevent Trump.
And thus would’ve lost the election.
tfw having a racist fascist piece of shit potus who attacks gold star families is better than having a lady president
Since Trump is not a racist or a fascist, Trump is a market conservative and thus cannot be a fascist by definition, and the only gold star family he attacked were people who had directly criticized him, and used their status as a gold star family to criticize him on issues unrelated to that status. Perhaps the wrong way about it, but you can’t level allegations on someone in public and be upset You get a response.
Trump is a racist.
Can we get your definition of racist? Last time I checked he wasn’t spitting out racist verbiage at people, or passing jim crow laws or say he hates colored folks. Please site specific examples and not use emotional arguments. Seriously am curious...
When's the last time you checked? Seriously, I'm curious.
Comments
Yep, Dems were saying this last election and turns out it's not how it works. You don't need a good candidate if enough people will vote against someone. @joejerryronnie
Say that Kamala Harris were to run and win, and it was a lot of "anyone but Trump" votes that turn the tide in her favor, then who will she be representing? A lot of the "anyone but Trump" voters are going to be moderates/Independents who she won't have any loyalty to or speak to their issues. She will be a liberal President much like Obama, and 4 years down the line she will lose because those "anyone but Trump" voters will feel like they were left out in the cold and ignored. They need a moderate Dem who can speak to the middle and the liberal base of the Democratic party. I just don't know if there is anyone who can do that anymore since that gap is becoming a problem. Some Dems see the problem they are facing in the midterms and 2020....https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/12/moderate-democrats-push-back-against-wild-eyed-leftward-lurch-party/777600002/ ;
"Who will they be representing?" Huh? That question doesn't need to be answered when placing a vote.
But maybe you're not saying that it does. Maybe you're saying this mentality will just bite the candidate during re-election, except you initially said it's a hindrance to being elected in the first place. You say essentially (if I may), "The problem with that is it didn't work one time when I believe people were also trying it." Okay, fine. My response would be essentially, "It's not the same."
That said I see only two options...Dems win and swing the country to the hard left, resulting in a backlash from moderates/independents in 2024 that will see them ousted from the White House, or Trump wins and we see a repeat of 2008 in 2024 and Dems will end up in control of the presidency and both houses of Congress. Of course if Trump wins in 2020 I think the Left will have a collective coronary and we could realistically be looking at a political/cultural civil war in this country.
Sadly, the majority of the country is still firmly planted in the middle but the two extremist arms of the Republicans and Democrats hold sway. Anyone know any good independent candidates that have made headlines or could be serious contenders?????????
When it comes to the liberal spectrum, I go all over. I don't mind if someone is "classically" liberal or extreme liberal. So the idea of an extremist arm of Democrats holding sway doesn't bother me, nor am I looking for a moderate. I know your last question wasn't addressed only to me but I felt like answering it. The main things I admire in politicians are honestly held beliefs (hard to judge) and competence (less hard to judge).
Would you vote for an independent?
Some woodchucks ate Paul Ryan's car.
Yale Friends Say Brett Kavanaugh Loved To Eat Pasta With Ketchup
"[W]hen it came to food, the future Supreme Court pick found hardly anything palatable, Christmas said. Kavanaugh was a “bland eater,” his roommate explained, who never ate his pasta with anything more exotic than tomato sauce or ketchup on top. [...] “When he had spaghetti sauce, it was ragu — he didn’t want anything spicier than that,” Hartmann added."
I've voted for libertarians in 2 of my 3 eligible presidential elections, does that count? A lot of that was the principle of the thing.
That one really needs the Mark Hamill Joker reading. "Putin likes me" in a childish way.
It can happen again.
Trial runs for fascism are in full flow
FYI - In the US, these people run as REPUBLICANS - more, and more, and more.
- Former Campaign Chairman jailed without bail due to attempted witness tampering ahead of his two pending trials this year
- Children of asylum seekers separated from parents and detained in private for-profit detention facilities
- EPA secretary resignation in cloud of scandal and corruption
- Former HHS secretary slammed for similar overspending while in office
- NATO broken and then declared fixed the next day
- UK Pime Minister relationship broken and then declared fixed the next day
- NK welching on nuclear agreement and Un refusing to meet with Secretary of State
- NK no-showing without explanation on meeting for return of remains
- This circus with Strzok in the House
I’m forgetting many also, but this opposite philosophy of No-Drama-Obama is depressingly effective.
"PERHAPS."