People were eating bread before agriculture and farming

I haven't read Sapiens, but I thought of Aron when I read this :)

https://gizmodo.com/discovery-of-14-000-year-old-toast-suggests-bread-can-b-1827631358

"Archaeologists have uncovered the earliest evidence of bread-making at a site in northeastern Jordan. Dating back some 14,400 years, the discovery shows that ancient hunter-gatherers were making and eating bread 4,000 years before the Neolithic era and the introduction of agriculture. So much for the “Paleo Diet” actually being a thing."

Comments

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    aki said:
    I haven't read Sapiens, but I thought of Aron when I read this :)

    https://gizmodo.com/discovery-of-14-000-year-old-toast-suggests-bread-can-b-1827631358

    "Archaeologists have uncovered the earliest evidence of bread-making at a site in northeastern Jordan. Dating back some 14,400 years, the discovery shows that ancient hunter-gatherers were making and eating bread 4,000 years before the Neolithic era and the introduction of agriculture. So much for the “Paleo Diet” actually being a thing."

    I'm not paleo, but 4,000 years ain't jack in our evolution.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • I will say this. Ive been doing paleo for 6 months this week and ive lost 60lbs. I didnt start working out until this weekend because i work full time and im a full time student. While it can suck for the most part i feel much healthier because of it.
    JaimieTcdriveChinaski
  • Did you guys know ARon is reading Sapiens? ;)
    MattyWeaves
  • I don't get why everyone wants to be Paleo. Didn't cavemen live to be like 30 and then die? LOL

    I hope this doesn't trigger some Paleo defense. I am just being silly.
    Shhhhh you aren’t supposed to say that, it’s one of the top secret goals we have. :D :p 
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    I don't get why everyone wants to be Paleo. Didn't cavemen live to be like 30 and then die? LOL

    I hope this doesn't trigger some Paleo defense. I am just being silly.
    Not because of the diet, they didn’t have medicine, sanitation, and without firearms or metal armor were very vulnerable to animal attacks. Infections were fatal, Etc. No diet would’ve improved that. The paleo diet is very healthy since it avoids processed sugar and flour, which is basically sugar 
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited July 2018
    I wasn’t going to weigh in on this, but one thing I cannot stand is nutritional junk science. There are no long term studies of the effects of a Paleo diet. For all we know, Paleo aficionados could start dropping dead in their 50s from colon cancer or heart attacks. Excess protein has also been linked to Alzheimer’s and other diseases of dementia. The majority of studies have been small groups of people doing a Paleo diet for several weeks or months. For example, one study was with a group (I think 7 or 8) of Aboriginal men in Australia, all of whom were diabetic and overweight, who were put on a Paleo diet for two months. If you remove processed junk food and simple carbohydrates, of course they will lose weight and have improved markers, which will have positive impacts on their Type 2 diabetes. But if they were to continue this diet for 10 to 20 years, what happens then? We don’t know. 

    On the other hand, there ARE long term studies of plant based diets, and in the “blue zone” areas, where people live the longest in the world, the common diets contain very little (if any) red meat, and are either fully plant-based or some kind of Mediterranean-based diet. In addition to this most of their diets include significant amounts of legumes and beans, which are considered “bad” within the Paleo diet. 
    Giovanni
  • emnofseattleemnofseattle Mason County, Washington USA
    Dee said:
    I wasn’t going to weigh in on this, but one thing I cannot stand is nutritional junk science. There are no long term studies of the effects of a Paleo diet. For all we know, Paleo aficionados could start dropping dead in their 50s from colon cancer or heart attacks. Excess protein has also been linked to Alzheimer’s and other diseases of dementia. The majority of studies have been small groups of people doing a Paleo diet for several weeks or months. For example, one study was with a group (I think 7 or 8) of Aboriginal men in Australia, all of whom were diabetic and overweight, who were put on a Paleo diet for two months. If you remove processed junk food and simple carbohydrates, of course they will lose weight and have improved markers, which will have positive impacts on their Type 2 diabetes. But if they were to continue this diet for 10 to 20 years, what happens then? We don’t know. 

    On the other hand, there ARE long term studies of plant based diets, and in the “blue zone” areas, where people live the longest in the world, the common diets contain very little (if any) red meat, and are either fully plant-based or some kind of Mediterranean-based diet. In addition to this most of their diets include significant amounts of legumes and beans, which are considered “bad” within the Paleo diet. 
    But to have a long term study someone has to stick with the diet.

    no critics can articulate a scientific reason why a protein and polyunsaturated fat diet is bad, especially because sugar and carbs are why obesity is so common in western societies.

    i don’t know about Australian aborigines, but I can say for sure the western pattern diet has destroyed native Americans, they never evolved to eat so much grains and sugar and look at them, I can’t believe obesity with high sugar and carbs is superior to a healthy weight with protein and polyunsaturated fats 
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @emnofseattle The Western diet is heavily processed, though. Eating a Paleo diet would be healthier than that, but that doesn’t make it a healthy diet in and of itself. 
  • @Dee
    I don’t do paleo, but a friend of mine does and is very happy with it. They do not eat that much meat though, they have said the diet isn’t supposed to be all protein but people have perverted it. 

    This person eats meat 3 times a week and eats a ton of vegetables.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Like diet sodas, another case of the perfect not needing to be the enemy of the good. (And what is "perfect" isn't fully known, but pescetarianism seems like one of the options.) @Dee, if you don't understand why people are doing this thing that seems imperfect, it's because they know that being overweight IS bad, and they'd rather do the sustainable unknown that results in weight loss. 

    I have to work to hit my protein macros, myself. But again, keto, the diet where no food is disallowed as long as you don't go overboard. 
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited July 2018
    @JaimieT I understand why people do it, and I understand why people lose weight on it. I’m not concerned with perfect diets - I had oven chips for dinner. I am concerned with people claiming that eating Paleo is a healthy way of life when we don’t actually know that it is (long term), and in fact there are many reasons why it may well not be. The only diets that have scientific evidence backing them as effective (for health, not necessarily weight loss) long term are plant-based and Mediterranean-style ones. 
    GiovanniJaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Dee said:
    @JaimieT I understand why people do it, and I understand why people lose weight on it. I’m not concerned with perfect diets - I had oven chips for dinner. I am concerned with people claiming that eating Paleo is a healthy way of life when we don’t actually know that it is (long term), and in fact there are many reasons why it may well not be. The only diets that have scientific evidence backing them as effective (for health, not necessarily weight loss) long term are plant-based and Mediterranean-style ones. 

    That makes sense. I don't know what you heard/read, but I know in America we're so overweight that anything that results in weight loss seems to be considered healthy by the public. And personally I find it hard to argue with them... :neutral: But I see your point.
    Dee
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    edited July 2018
    @JaimieT Yeah, I think we are talking about two different things. When I say diet, I mean “long term eating pattern”, not weight loss specifically. Sorry - I should have been clearer. Paleo can definitely be effective for weight loss, but generally that’s because you’re drastically reducing calories by not eating standard western junk and processed food anymore rather than any magical properties of Paleo itself. 

    I have no beef (heh) with people doing whatever works for them to lose weight as long as it’s not dangerous. 

    (I do know a lot about American eating habits - Australia is becoming similar, though we do not use high fructose corn syrup.) 
  • MattyWeavesMattyWeaves Mid-State New York
    JaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    ^^ I often think of that quote, haha. 
    MattyWeaves
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Even in Sapiens, it points out  that humans were eating bread/grains before the agricultural revolution. They just didn't farm it until the last 12,000 years or so. Just like they ate sheep many thousands of years before they slowly began to domesticate and use them as livestock. 

    I just wonder how long it took for us to see bread and turkey and discover the turkey sandwich? Those are the true heroes.


    Cory
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    We need Alton Brown of Good Eats to call up his Food Anthropologist friend, Deb Duchon...


    MattyWeavesmajjam0770
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Me: I’m on a low carb diet.

    at the same time also me:

  • At the risk of sounding dumb, to me what was interesting was that people were eating bread before agriculture.   Somehow I thought it was the other way around.    I thought once people settled down and had agriculture, then they developed things like bread.   Perhaps had I thought about it more (or if someone had questioned that thought) it would make sense that people developed an interest in agriculture when they had a need for it ("hey, wouldn't it be better to grow wheat rather than go around searching for it all the time?).   But it's nice to have evidence that in fact people were making bread before agriculture was developed backs up that idea.
    Dee
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • This was always really my theory anyways because it makes too much sense that you'd have a huge idea of what you're gonna do with the stuff you cultivate before you have the idea to cultivate it in the first place. Like , knowing that grains and such = food would reasonably be assumed as a reason to begin agriculture, dunno if I'm making sense since I'm pretty bad at articulating myself but yeah. 
Sign In or Register to comment.