4.02 Breathe

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  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    There is a lot of truth to that. Kim has to feel at fault to a degree. We saw how she reacted last season after the Chuck-hearing. She said something along the lines of "...as far as I am concerned we just brought a sick man down." Despite Howard saying that it was his fault for pushing him out of the firm, Kim is too smart of a person to not make the connection and feel remorse and guilt for her part in things. 
    Natter CastYonatan
  • I really didn't know what they were going for with Jimmy's interview. My initial reaction was to interpret the scene as proof that Jimmy is losing it, still quite broken after Chuck's death despite seeming to snap out of it after Howard's confession. But I guess there's also his internal battle between "Jimmy" and "Saul Goodman." He's able to turn on the latter to get the job but the former takes control when he realizes how easily his new bosses were duped by him. It's almost like he's got a split personality at this point, and Jimmy is still sabotaging Saul. I guess he has not yet reached the point where Saul becomes the dominant personality.
    Vince and Tom explain this well on the BCS Insider Podcast. It's very early on in the ep, so easy to find. Basically, Jimmy runs his game on the copier folks, and then shuts it all down for being rubes that so easily fell for it. They are suckers. Tom says he was thinking of the Groucho line, "I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member." Jimmy doesn't want to work for someone who could so easily succumb to his game. 
  • Okay, let's talk about Kimplicity and Kimpassion

    She really leaned in on Howard. And there's a strong case that he deserved it.

    However..

    After the "cross to bear" scene, Jimmy gets up and starts whistling. He doesn't seem to be that upset. Kim seemed to react this with surprise. It seemed like she was upset that Jimmy would be cruel to Howard.

    Then, the next day, Jimmy is heading out for a job hunt. She doesn't want him to go. When she asks him about the estate meeting with Howard, he blows it off completely. Couldn't be less concerned.

    So she goes in his place. It's not her family. It's a conversation for Howard and Jimmy.

    And then she lays into Howard for his treatment of Jimmy. She clearly cares deeply. It's just not so clear that Jimmy does (though I buy that he's in denial.)

    So what really motivates Kim here? Has she seen this process as being harmful to Jimmy? Or is she venting some of her own anger on her own behalf?

    And...if so...doesn't that make her Howard's mirror image? Dumping on someone else for her own reasons? To make herself feel better?

    #Kimplicity
    Are you available for a quick therapy session next week Jason?
    Natter Cast
  • I think another thing worth considering when thinking about Jimmy's reaction to Chuck's death is that Jimmy has never had big displays of emotion, even when it came to his brother, and Kim has probably picked up on this. Jimmy has pretty much just endured Chuck's bad treatment of him, at least on the face of it, and then came up with plans to subvert or undermine Chuck. The only time (that I can remember anyway) that we see Jimmy have a big emotional reaction is when he breaks into Chuck's house to confront him about the tape. And look how that turned out for Jimmy.

    I think there is a part of Jimmy that has learned from that, and in the wake of Chuck's death, he is really trying to not have an emotional reaction, to show that everything is fine, and his brother's death did not "get" to him. But of course, his emotions will come out, just in these weird ways, like with Howard and in the interview. I think Kim has picked up on this, and I think her emotional reaction to Howard is her mostly acting as a proxy for Jimmy's emotions, but some of her emotions are also buried in there.

    Chuck has had an effect on Kim too, and I think she feels angry and taken advantage of when she thinks about how she actually felt sorry for "tearing down a sick man". I think she is feeling a surge of empathy for Jimmy because she is just now realizing how much of an asshole Chuck really was. And it pisses her off that Howard is still playing along with Chuck's games, and still being Chuck's Yes-Man, essentially. She sees him as just as responsible for the hurt Jimmy is going through, because Howard was the person who allowed Chuck to be such an asshole. 
  • With Nacho, it's a tragic realization that what he did to Hector didn't solve his problems. Once Hector was out of the picture, their crew is immediately told to keep the drug money pumping or else they'll probably be killed. And that was before Arturo (is that his name) got killed and Nacho has become Gus' apparent property.

    It did seem to get the Salamancas away from his Dad though. I'm surprised none of the other henchman brought up using his Dad to smuggle the drugs, in light of the pressure on them to keep the money flowing. I guess they didn't have long enough to think of that idea before Gus stepped in with his plastic bag and zip ties.
  • I still think Jimmy is really not "sad" about his brothers death. I think Chuck's death has released an emotional can of worms, and that can of worms is leading him to becoming Saul. But it's not sadness he's experiencing, and he's not repressing it either. I think Jimmy is shocked at the very lack of sadness that he feels.

    The writers are working backwards to turn Jimmy into Saul. So let's ask, who is Saul Goodman? Saul doesn't care about doing the right thing. He doesn't care if people get hurt along the way. He's a person who thinks Jesse should be killed when he becomes a liability. He's a person that knows the law, and uses his smarts to illegally make money. He doesn't weep for the meth addicts or the people Walt kills.

    Jimmy doesn't feel sympathy about his brothers death. That's the emotion inside Jimmy's chest- a realization that he truly doesn't give a shit. Remember when he didn't take the 1Million dollars with Mike? And he regretted not taking it? At this moment, Jimmy regrets having helped his brother for so long. He regrets having cared for so long. And he's not going to make that mistake again. Hence him treating those good-guy copy machine men like fools. He despises those people and he despises himself for having given so much care and love to Chuck. The only person who will ever get that from Jimmy again is Kim. He is NOT sad over Chuck's death, I promise you. 

  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Are you available for a quick therapy session next week Jason?
    For you or for me? :)
    hypergenesb
  • Frakkin TFrakkin T Currently Offline
    JoeJoeB88 said:


    It did seem to get the Salamancas away from his Dad though. I'm surprised none of the other henchman brought up using his Dad to smuggle the drugs, in light of the pressure on them to keep the money flowing. I guess they didn't have long enough to think of that idea before Gus stepped in with his plastic bag and zip ties.
    It was my understanding that Tio was off the reservation when he went to Nacho's father. Juan Bolsa had just given word that all shipments coming north would use Gus's routes and Tio didn't like that, so he went behind Bolsa's back to Nacho's dad. I don't think Arturo would have even thought of doing the same. He might have ended up dead lmao

  • Are you available for a quick therapy session next week Jason?
    For you or for me? :)
    For me, duh!
    Natter Cast
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    re: the Gila monster, I think it's just part of Villigan's obsession with old timey crime stories. He talks about Treasure of Sierra Madre as an influence on Breaking Bad and BCS.

    Here's the Gila monster monologue from TSM:


    Dummy
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited August 2018
    I smoked pot with Johnny Hopkins...

  • Loved it 
  • Why would Gus complicate Nacho's situation with the Salamancas like that?  Gus wants control or a mole but there are a lot simpler ways of applying pressure.  Nacho is going to have to explain what happened to enforcer 1 and/or dispose of a body and come up with something plausible.  
  • Why would Gus complicate Nacho's situation with the Salamancas like that?  Gus wants control or a mole but there are a lot simpler ways of applying pressure.  Nacho is going to have to explain what happened to enforcer 1 and/or dispose of a body and come up with something plausible.  
    Maybe it's just a power play. He'll have Nacho say someone from another gang got Arturo. The Salamancas look weak without Hector around and Don Eladio already likes Gus' operation better. So he starts leaning towards giving the entire territory to him, which is what we see in Breaking Bad. I wonder how or why the cousins seem so respectful towards Gus in Breaking Bad though. They really respect that he has his own territory. They obviously never find out what happened in Mondays episode..
  • Might have already been said in the thread or cast but Caught on the re-watch that when Jimmy is talking Copiers and says he used one of them in Chicago the guy says people were using it to counterfeit $5 bills. Which obviously is what Jimmy was doing with the copier in Chicago. 
    Natter Cast
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I love that people thought the guy Mike stole the ID from was some allusion to Walt. I mean, in a way, I guess. Boring white guy that might have some slight OCD tendencies in a suburban area. But also, Walt most assuredly has hair at this point. I think we are still some ways out from Heisenberg.

    @Hatorian Yeah, I absolutely loved that part. Jimmy and his nervous laughter like "yeah, can you believe people do that? Crazy, huh?" 
  • JoeJoeB88 said:
    Why would Gus complicate Nacho's situation with the Salamancas like that?  Gus wants control or a mole but there are a lot simpler ways of applying pressure.  Nacho is going to have to explain what happened to enforcer 1 and/or dispose of a body and come up with something plausible.  
    Maybe it's just a power play. He'll have Nacho say someone from another gang got Arturo. The Salamancas look weak without Hector around and Don Eladio already likes Gus' operation better. So he starts leaning towards giving the entire territory to him, which is what we see in Breaking Bad. I wonder how or why the cousins seem so respectful towards Gus in Breaking Bad though. They really respect that he has his own territory. They obviously never find out what happened in Mondays episode..

    @JoeJoeB88, i think at this season goes along (or at least, by next episode), we'll see what Gus' true intentions/plans are.  As for Nacho, his objective was to save his father's life as basically Hector wanted him killed if he didn't submit or if there was any resistance of any sort.  So, to that, Nacho did solve his problem.  However, Nacho's dad knows what kind of people that Nacho is associated with and so that's not going to change because Nacho isn't going to stop that, there's too much money in it for him.  So, the way i see it, there was 2 problems, 1) Hector and 2) Nacho being in crime.  1) could easily be solved by taking out Hector.  2) wasn't really ever going to be solved.
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Aside from what we know about Breaking Bad, I have no idea how BCS will end...but I do know that if we don't get a Force Ghost Chuck spinoff, we riot.
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited August 2018
    Loving the (not so) slow burn on Lydia Rodarte-Quayle. We know from BB that her relationship with Mike deteriorates to the point where he's perfectly comfortable murdering her.

    At this point, however, I'm fascinated to find out who the fuck Quayle is. Could just be that her mother or father had a hyphenated name, but something tells me there's a Quayle out there with quite a story to tell.

  • Q: How difficult was it working with the cast on your arm?
    A - Rhea Seehorn: “My cast is real. It is not removable and is on for the duration of the scenes until it is sawed off. Paramedics put it on in the morning. It was a matter of testing a lot of different materials to see what we could get away with that would still look real. If you do a cast at your wrist, you can slip it off but as soon as you go past your elbow joint, you can’t slip something on and off. We had some pretty high-tech art department people that tried to come up with things. Once you make it big enough for clips in the back, it gets very fat. So, this was the best option. I didn’t fight that because I trust all of the creative people on the team and it came to be an interesting burden for me to use as Kim. Doing my own bra was impossible and I had to ask for help. It made me think about Kim having to ask Jimmy to do her bra in the mornings. She must hate that! I needed help in the lunch line. I don’t love being a pain in the ass, so it was good for me to realize that Kim would be feeling that times 300. I liked it for that reason. I didn’t hate it in real life, but it was fun to think about how much it would bother Kim.” 

    (Interview)


    MurderbearJoshuaHeterNatter Casthisdudeness915
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    edited August 2018
    Can I just say that the “Kim is Wendy” theory seems about as likely as Mad Men’s “Don is D.B. Cooper” theory?

    Both directions would be super interesting, but just crazy enough that if they went there, I don’t think I’d like it. 
    MurderbearNatter CastDummy
  • Okay, let's talk about Kimplicity and Kimpassion

    She really leaned in on Howard. And there's a strong case that he deserved it.

    However..

    After the "cross to bear" scene, Jimmy gets up and starts whistling. He doesn't seem to be that upset. Kim seemed to react this with surprise. It seemed like she was upset that Jimmy would be cruel to Howard.

    Then, the next day, Jimmy is heading out for a job hunt. She doesn't want him to go. When she asks him about the estate meeting with Howard, he blows it off completely. Couldn't be less concerned.

    So she goes in his place. It's not her family. It's a conversation for Howard and Jimmy.

    And then she lays into Howard for his treatment of Jimmy. She clearly cares deeply. It's just not so clear that Jimmy does (though I buy that he's in denial.)

    So what really motivates Kim here? Has she seen this process as being harmful to Jimmy? Or is she venting some of her own anger on her own behalf?

    And...if so...doesn't that make her Howard's mirror image? Dumping on someone else for her own reasons? To make herself feel better?

    #Kimplicity
    I think Kim is interpreting Jimmy's reaction to Howard's confession as "broken." She might be actively fooling herself about it but she's choosing to believe this information just broke him, hence his odd reaction to it. But I think the way she vented to Howard was a case of protesting too much - part of her doesn't want to believe Jimmy could be that cold but the part of her that's yelling in anger knows, somewhere deep down, that he really is. I think that's what she's really angry about, and she's just projecting.
    MurderbearNatter Cast
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited August 2018
    Interesting catch from one of our Natterborn co-casters, Jay Greenspan: when Gus is looking at blurry medical records, what he sees is that there was no trace of nitroglycerin in Hector's blood. That's how he knows specifically what Nacho did.


    Plug plug:
    http://nattercast.libsyn.com/natter-cast-243-better-call-saul-4x02-breathe
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited August 2018
    This may just be Hollywooded up to be Gus's method but several problems with this:

    1. Hospitals don't test for nitroglycerin.  If you wanted to test for it, it would probably be a send out lab.... leading to point number:

    2. Nitroglycerin is volatile.  The nitroglycerin under the tongue you take to stave off chest pains, which is probably what Hector was taking, is out of your blood in 20 minutes.  

    3.  Nitroglycerin is volatile.  If the pills are too old, they lose their potency.  Nitroglycerin pills that don't work are not just the work of some unheard of nefarious ruse that would trigger a major medical investigation.

    Interesting catch from one of our Natterborn co-casters, Jay Greenspan: when Gus is looking at blurry medical records, what he sees is that there was no trace of nitroglycerin in Hector's blood. That's how he knows specifically what Nacho did.


    Plug plug:
    http://nattercast.libsyn.com/natter-cast-243-better-call-saul-4x02-breathe


    Natter Cast
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    This may just be Hollywooded up to be Gus's method but several problems with this:

    1. Hospitals don't test for nitroglycerin.  If you wanted to test for it, it would probably be a send out lab.... leading to point number:

    2. Nitroglycerin is volatile.  The nitroglycerin under the tongue you take to stave off chest pains, which is probably what Hector was taking, is out of your blood in 20 minutes.  

    3.  Nitroglycerin is volatile.  If the pills are too old, they lose their potency.  Nitroglycerin pills that don't work are not just the work of some unheard of nefarious ruse that would trigger a major medical investigation.

    Interesting catch from one of our Natterborn co-casters, Jay Greenspan: when Gus is looking at blurry medical records, what he sees is that there was no trace of nitroglycerin in Hector's blood. That's how he knows specifically what Nacho did.


    Plug plug:
    http://nattercast.libsyn.com/natter-cast-243-better-call-saul-4x02-breathe


    Agreed...I think it's Hollywooded up...but it does seem to be the beats of the story. Also recall that both doctors are working for Gus, so if there's any way to determine if he'd  taken nitro, he'd have them fast track the labwork.
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA

    Walter White: I am the one who knocks!

    Kim Wexler: I am the one who rings the bell once, waits politely for 30 seconds, rings again, waits for another 30 seconds, then tapes the doorbell button down and starts throwing potted plants through your bedroom window.


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