Naomi Osaka US Open Finals Match

Unless I missed it, I'm kind of surprised nobody has brought up the US Open Women's Final match between Naomi Osaka and Serena Williams, considering all the discussion that's been happening over it. 

So any thoughts on the winner, Osaka, the quality of that match, or yeah the little disagreement between the ump and Serena?
cdrive

Comments

  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Mark Knight is in trouble.

    Serena and her coach are right - it’s all hypocritical horse shit.

    Serena is right that men have done way much worse.

    During the award ceremony, the crowd booing the utter shit show / self-created debacle while Serena hugged and consoled her biggest fan,Osaka, was moving.

    Serena Williams is in Michael Phelps / Carl Lewis / Michael Jordan sort of rare air. I think capital T Tennis has some damage control to do.

    DeerusskellyKingKobraphoenyx1023Aww_PHuuCk
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @cdrive Mark Knight isn’t in trouble - Herald Sun is a racist rag and he’s known for his racist cartoons. They’ll be loving the attention. 
    cdriveKingKobraAlkaid13
  • Not a tennis fan at all, literally watched my first match on Thursday, to my dad's confusion, and I told him Williams was supposed to be like the greatest player ever so I figured I should see her play once.  I was impressed, but tennis is still boring so whatever.  Fast forward a couple days and when I saw the video of that shitshow, suffice to say I had a much different impression.  I'm not in any position to evaluate the officiating or hypocrisy or double-standard or whatever, but I just can't stand when a player in any sport so clearly believes that they are entitled to special treatment.  The way she was demanding an apology after that first warning or violation or whatever wouldn't be a good look for anyone.  Especially since her coach later clearly acknowledged that he was doing exactly that which she had so adamantly denied.  Yeah, nothing about that was moving or gracious in any way, and the crowd was shitty, as well.
    Jovial_FalconTaraC73JTKIII
  • One of the greatest athletes on the planet complaining because she got caught cheating. It's pretty ridiculous. She did the right thing during the ceremony though so I applaud her for not letting the situation get worse and have it take away from Osaka's big day
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited September 2018
    The problem isn’t that Williams was called out for cheating, the problem is the double standard where male athletes who do the same shit and then call out the umpire get a slap on the wrist at most and Serena Williams gets vilified. Hell, even this same umpire has had similar interactions with male tennis players, this same year, and he’s never given them penalties for it like he did with Williams. 
    JaimieTcdriveKingKobraasmallcatphoenyx1023Flukes
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited September 2018
    Frankly speaking, the history of Serena Williams in this sport is filled with a long line of both fans and officials behaving in often sexist, sometimes even racist, ways so it doesn’t all surprise me that people are fine when the white dudes throw a temper tantrum but when the black woman does it, well now she’s just getting uppity, shouldn’t she know her place?
    JaimieTAww_PHuuCkcdriveDeeKingKobraphoenyx1023
  • Again, I’m not arguing that the results of the match are incorrect, she was caught cheating for sure (Although that particular rule is pretty loosely enforced but whatever) and Osaka played really well. I’m arguing that the backlash to maybe the best player in the sport is pretty fucking hypocritical given the history of the sport. 
  • Osaka is the only winner here.

    SW lost it, acted inappropriately, and looked very bad.

    Tennis, chair ump, and humanity in general have unrealistic / unfair dual standards for women.
  • Alkaid13Alkaid13 Georgia
    edited September 2018
    I do think in a “fair” world then Serena gets penalized mostly the same and still loses but also so does everyone else who’s ever done the same thing. Which doesn’t happen in the real world because the real world is biased. 
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    I've been deliberately quiet about it because I don't think my take is a balanced one, I'm pretty much a Serena Williams fanatic so it's hard to be unbiased.

    What I will say is that the code violations she got were fair by the letter of the law, but I will fight back on the "she got caught cheating fair and square" line of thought, because that's just not true. Patrick did make a hand signal, and the punishment was just, but Serena was literally looking in the other direction, did not see him do it, and given her history of never asking her coach to come down to talk in the tournaments where it is allowed (every tourney except Grand Slams), I refuse to believe it's something she was looking for.

    The double standards argument is 100% a thing. Players like Djokovic, Kyrgios, Andy Murray regularly get very aggressive and combative with umpires, and get a LOT more leeway than Serena did on Saturday.

    I'm not saying this of anyone on this thread, but there is no denying that there is a percentage of society that hates Serena Williams because she is a sporting phenomenon, an unapologetically strong and competitive black woman from Compton who is the greatest ever to play a sport that has historically been dominated by middle and upper class white people. People might not want to admit their prejudice, hell they might not even realise that's why they dislike her, but it is definitely a thing.

    She can't win. When she dominates the field, it's because she's too 'mannish' and too strong for everyone else, she makes it 'boring'. If she takes time out or loses a few finals in a row and some new winners come through, then the women's game has 'no consistency' and can't produce any new dynasty champions. 

    I'm ranting now, so I'll finish up, lol.

    Serena Williams is out here, a year after complicated childbirth, 36 years old, working to overtake the Grand Slam record of Margaret Court, an unapologetic, racist homophobe. But she’s the one who is a disgrace to the sport, right?
    Aww_PHuuCkJaimieTDeeKingKobraAlkaid13MattyWeavesphoenyx1023majjam0770
  • @amyja89 you’re spot on.

    What we’ve seen in the aftermath is a bunch of hot takes from people who’ve never played or really watched Tennis. They see what other people have said and are piling on. They have no clue about what happens in Tennis, but have to say say something now. The only reason people KNOW her coach was coaching was because he said he was. It was all him, yet she’s taking the blame since at the time when it happened she didn’t see what he was doing in full and rightly defended herself. 

    Shes right there is a double standard and and probably many more for her. Men have been celebrated for being over aggressive, smashing rackets, taking off their shirts, etc. Women have have had a much tougher way of things (remember when they made a big thing about the “grunting”). Tennis is one of those sports where it’s still stuck in “old school” ways of thought and needs to evolve. 

    As far as discussing it, I purposefully didn’t mention it because of the cesspool of comments I’ve seen on almost every Reddit thread that discussed this.  

    Sayng that, I do feel bad for Osaka. She was beating Serena point blank and this controversy took over her spotlight. Serena was an idol of hers, and the emotion she showed, was what sports is often all about. Playing against ones idol doesn’t happen often (at least when your idol is still dominant in the game). She is a class player and I look forward to watching her in the future. I hate what the crowd did, that was unacceptable. Even though there was controversy Osaka was going to win (IMO). They should have cheered the players and if they had issues with the official taken it out on him. 
    amyja89JaimieTAww_PHuuCkphoenyx1023majjam0770DeeFlukes
  • Bomani Jones did a segment on this for her s podcast The Right Time. I thought he brought up a good point where the lack of a voice within the media who is a woman of color and regularly covers Tennis made this difficult to speak on.  Being a man and commenting on some of this is problematic (be brings this up as well).
    Worth the listen IMO as he discusses the problems that have arisen from this. 

    (Something that I wanted to add before, but didn’t) It’s boiling down to a lot of men telling  women how to dress and act in this sport. This is a major problem, which sh was highlighted because they banned Serena from wearing her “catsuit” at the FO. 
    JaimieTDeeAww_PHuuCkphoenyx1023
  • edited September 2018
    KingKobra said:
    Sayng that, I do feel bad for Osaka. She was beating Serena point blank and this controversy took over her spotlight. Serena was an idol of hers, and the emotion she showed, was what sports is often all about. Playing against ones idol doesn’t happen often (at least when your idol is still dominant in the game). She is a class player and I look forward to watching her in the future. I hate what the crowd did, that was unacceptable. Even though there was controversy Osaka was going to win (IMO). They should have cheered the players and if they had issues with the official taken it out on him. 
    I feel bad for Osaka too. First of all, I think Naomi Osaka herself should be just as much the story as Serena, if the thread title didn’t already give that away. But honestly Serena’s situation absolutely has to be talked about and understandably is taking most of the coverage. Regardless, Osaka outplayed Serena, simple as that – and it's nice to see that this is a sentiment shared across the mainstream media even if the controversy had not occurred. 

    I do think though what happened at the podium and how Naomi reacted did a lot to endear her to the media & audience. She could’ve just done what most players would, and just smile or laugh through the rain of boos to deflect what was happening, but instead she cried – and then apologized for winning in that manner. Serena definitely did the right thing and helped to calm the crowd, but Naomi I think stole more hearts than if she looked like a smiling empty soul up there. I assume due to that is why we're seeing quite a bit of effort from the media to get her as much exposure as possible amidst all the hot takes. 

    amyja89 said:
    I've been deliberately quiet about it because I don't think my take is a balanced one, I'm pretty much a Serena Williams fanatic so it's hard to be unbiased.
    So about Serena. She's not faultless, I admit.  She did lose her composure. No two ways about it. She rightfully got a code violation for  throwing the racquet down. She had difficulty moving on. Okay fine. I still side with her anyway, for the same reasons @amyja89 beautifully detailed. A couple things I’d like to add to that or highlight is let’s not forget Serena just 2 weeks ago bit her tongue and took the high road after the French Open president absurdly criticized her catsuit as a “disrespect to the game”. In addition, in the very same US Open tournament, we’ve had Alize Cornet penalized for fixing her shirt, but we’ve got Novak Djokovic sitting minutes shirtless during a match with no penalty in any form. Add all these elements with an umpire calling her out, her frustration with the match, and I can totally empathize why she felt targeted. 

    Even when we take away all the baggage and focus within only this match, the individual with the most power to salvage this was the umpire. Did Carlos follow the rules to the the letter of the law? Yes, but he could've exercised better discretion to diffuse the situation. When Serena called him a thief, he could've made it clear that if she continued he would be forced to penalize her a game. If she still doesn’t let it go from there, then the onus is indisputedly on her at that point. But let’s not just look at how his quick trigger finger for penalties affected Serena.

    In a Championship match, an umpire should not only consider the effect a severe penalty as a game on the offending party would be, but also how the other player might be negatively affected by it. Naomi benefitted in the score, but did he benefit her competitive spirit? This isn't some match in the third round, it's for the trophy. If anything, it changed the definitiveness of her accomplishment. The one solace is that Osaka ensured the set ended at 6-4 with a very strong serve game at the end. Could you imagine the outrage or doubt though if she had won at 7-5 or 7-6? In his attempt to maintain order with an iron fist he hurt both competitors and ignited an angry mob of fans.
    majjam0770JaimieTKingKobraken hale
  • akiaki
    edited September 2018
    Not to hijack the thread, but I wanted to add something from a different perspective.

    My dad was Japanese, and my mom from Guatemala.    Japan is a very homogeneous country where diversity isn't necessarily embraced or celebrated (at least not well) by most.   I was born in Guatemala, and got education in both countries  (went to elementary school in both countries, junior high school in Guatemala, and high school in Japan).  Although I have a Japanese name, and I am half Japanese, no matter how well I spoke the language, or how well I understood the culture I was seen as an outsider.  In fact, the better I spoke the language and acted "Japanese", the harsher people would evaluate me, finding the smallest thing to call me out and claim "of course you wouldn't understand this, you're not Japanese."   My dad's family being usually the harshest of critics.

    A lot of people still expect people other than themselves to behave in broad stereotypical ways, and although you may think "how is that different than most other places?", my experience has been that on the whole, people here in the United States have been more accepting and open minded.   Sure, not every person I've met her has the same level of acceptance or being open minded, but overall that has been my experience (sadly Guatemala isn't much better than Japan either when it comes to racism, sexism, homosexuality, religion).

    Sorry, I'll finally get to my point.  Naomi Osaka's father is Haitian and her mother is Japanese.  Naomi was raised in the United States.  Some of the most interesting reactions I've seen on social media (comments on twitter/youtube) from Japanese people are celebrating her win as one of their own.   Hopefully in some small way this could help people of Japan become more inclusive and change their perceptions on what it means to be Japanese, or at the very least learn to appreciate people of different backgrounds.

    PS.   Sadly the comments I also saw on the videos of her winning included a lot of "I can't believe Americans are booing a Japanese beating them!   Americans are the worst."   I suppose most of us make those statements when we see a group of people do one thing without context and assume every one of "those people" are a certain way :/. I wish I could go spend all day committing on clarifying that people weren't booing the fact that a Japanese person won, but...
    Aww_PHuuCkKingKobraDeeAlkaid13JoshuaHetergguenotmajjam0770
  • aki said:
    Not to hijack the thread, but I wanted to add something from a different perspective.

    My dad was Japanese, and my mom from Guatemala.    Japan is a very homogeneous country where diversity isn't necessarily embraced or celebrated (at least not well) by most.   I was born in Guatemala, and got education in both countries  (went to elementary school in both countries, junior high school in Guatemala, and high school in Japan).  Although I have a Japanese name, and I am half Japanese, no matter how well I spoke the language, or how well I understood the language I was seen as an outsider.  In fact, the better I spoke the language and acted "Japanese", the harsher people would evaluate me, finding the smallest thing to call me out and claim "of course you wouldn't understand this, you're not Japanese."   My dad's family being usually the harshest of critics.

    A lot of people still expect people other than themselves to behave in broad stereotypical ways, and although you may think "how is that different than most other places?", my experience has been that on the whole, people here in the United States have been more accepting and open minded.   Sure, not every person I've met her has the same level of acceptance or being open minded, but overall that has been my experience (sadly Guatemala isn't much better than Japan either when it comes to racism, sexism, homosexuality, religion).

    Sorry, I'll finally get to my point.  Naomi Osaka's father is Haitian and her mother is Japanese.  Naomi was raised in the United States.  Some of the most interesting reactions I've seen on social media (comments on twitter/youtube) from Japanese people are celebrating her win as one of their own.   Hopefully in some small way this could help people of Japan help become more inclusive and change their perceptions on what it means to be Japanese, or at the very least learn to appreciate people of different backgrounds.

    PS.   Sadly the comments I also saw on the videos of her winning included a lot of "I can't believe Americans are booing a Japanese beating them!   Americans are the worst."   I suppose most of us make those statements when we see a group of people do one thing without context and assume every one of "those people" are a certain way :/. I wish I could go spend all day committing on clarifying that people weren't booing the fact that a Japanese people won, but...
    You didn't hijack it. You actually touched on an excellent point as to why Naomi winning is important and a culturally significant thing beyond her being the first Japanese to win a Grand Slam.  It's something I too hope pushes the discussion in Japan on inclusion.

    There's also another key thing about Naomi, but it probably won't come to the forefront until a couple years from now, and it's the issue of Japan forcing dual citizens to choose one citizenship after 22 years of age. If she remains a top player and maintains her popularity I wonder if it brings a broader discussion on if what Japan is doing is best for it's citizens. Maybe Japan gives Naomi an exception and that discussion goes nowhere, but it's interesting to think about. 
    JoshuaHeteradobo1148
  • I think the take home message from the whole thing was that the umpire, Ramos, seems to have had very little reason to inject himself into the match by calling a penalty on something that is actually common in tennis.  This is not the first time by any stretch that Serena Williams has blown up, and she just could not let it go when things kept getting worse for her; this umpire was obviously not going to let himself get shown up in front of everyone (apparently the umpires are talking about a union now because of the lack of support for the umpire from the tennis bodies).  Ramos affecting the championship match like that was a terrible idea. In a game where people commonly get thrown out for arguing, like baseball, I would always expect there to be more leeway to argue in a World Series or playoff game, for instance.  This just seemed like a weird choice on Ramos's part.
    ken haleJaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I think the take home message from the whole thing was that the umpire, Ramos, seems to have had very little reason to inject himself into the match by calling a penalty on something that is actually common in tennis.  This is not the first time by any stretch that Serena Williams has blown up, and she just could not let it go when things kept getting worse for her; this umpire was obviously not going to let himself get shown up in front of everyone (apparently the umpires are talking about a union now because of the lack of support for the umpire from the tennis bodies).  Ramos affecting the championship match like that was a terrible idea. In a game where people commonly get thrown out for arguing, like baseball, I would always expect there to be more leeway to argue in a World Series or playoff game, for instance.  This just seemed like a weird choice on Ramos's part.

    The union idea, lol. Don't do a shit job and you won't have a "lack of support." The actual headline here is what the fuck was up with Carlos Ramos? Why can't Carlos Ramos chill out?
  • aki said:
    Not to hijack the thread, but I wanted to add something from a different perspective.

    My dad was Japanese, and my mom from Guatemala.    Japan is a very homogeneous country where diversity isn't necessarily embraced or celebrated (at least not well) by most.   I was born in Guatemala, and got education in both countries  (went to elementary school in both countries, junior high school in Guatemala, and high school in Japan).  Although I have a Japanese name, and I am half Japanese, no matter how well I spoke the language, or how well I understood the language I was seen as an outsider.  In fact, the better I spoke the language and acted "Japanese", the harsher people would evaluate me, finding the smallest thing to call me out and claim "of course you wouldn't understand this, you're not Japanese."   My dad's family being usually the harshest of critics.

    A lot of people still expect people other than themselves to behave in broad stereotypical ways, and although you may think "how is that different than most other places?", my experience has been that on the whole, people here in the United States have been more accepting and open minded.   Sure, not every person I've met her has the same level of acceptance or being open minded, but overall that has been my experience (sadly Guatemala isn't much better than Japan either when it comes to racism, sexism, homosexuality, religion).

    Sorry, I'll finally get to my point.  Naomi Osaka's father is Haitian and her mother is Japanese.  Naomi was raised in the United States.  Some of the most interesting reactions I've seen on social media (comments on twitter/youtube) from Japanese people are celebrating her win as one of their own.   Hopefully in some small way this could help people of Japan help become more inclusive and change their perceptions on what it means to be Japanese, or at the very least learn to appreciate people of different backgrounds.

    PS.   Sadly the comments I also saw on the videos of her winning included a lot of "I can't believe Americans are booing a Japanese beating them!   Americans are the worst."   I suppose most of us make those statements when we see a group of people do one thing without context and assume every one of "those people" are a certain way :/. I wish I could go spend all day committing on clarifying that people weren't booing the fact that a Japanese people won, but...
    You didn't hijack it. You actually touched on an excellent point as to why Naomi winning is important and a culturally significant thing beyond her being the first Japanese to win a Grand Slam.  It's something I too hope pushes the discussion in Japan on inclusion.

    There's also another key thing about Naomi, but it probably won't come to the forefront until a couple years from now, and it's the issue of Japan forcing dual citizens to choose one citizenship after 22 years of age. If she remains a top player and maintains her popularity I wonder if it brings a broader discussion on if what Japan is doing is best for it's citizens. Maybe Japan gives Naomi an exception and that discussion goes nowhere, but it's interesting to think about. 
    First off i did not know that Japan had such laws regarding citizenship. 
    Second, I’ve heard several say (not on this thread) Serena was going to lose the match anyway. Whoever said that has no idea what they’re talking about. Serena was only down one break of serve (4-3) at the the time and after the game penalty it became 5-3. If serena breaks Osaka’s serve to bring it to 4-4, a champion like Serena  could have very easily taken the set and eventually won the third set to win the match. Ramos removed the pressure of a 20 year old Osaka having to maintain her one break lead, which given the moment and her legendary opposition, would have been highly  pressure packed. 

  • adobo1148 said:
    aki said:
    Not to hijack the thread, but I wanted to add something from a different perspective.

    My dad was Japanese, and my mom from Guatemala.    Japan is a very homogeneous country where diversity isn't necessarily embraced or celebrated (at least not well) by most.   I was born in Guatemala, and got education in both countries  (went to elementary school in both countries, junior high school in Guatemala, and high school in Japan).  Although I have a Japanese name, and I am half Japanese, no matter how well I spoke the language, or how well I understood the language I was seen as an outsider.  In fact, the better I spoke the language and acted "Japanese", the harsher people would evaluate me, finding the smallest thing to call me out and claim "of course you wouldn't understand this, you're not Japanese."   My dad's family being usually the harshest of critics.

    A lot of people still expect people other than themselves to behave in broad stereotypical ways, and although you may think "how is that different than most other places?", my experience has been that on the whole, people here in the United States have been more accepting and open minded.   Sure, not every person I've met her has the same level of acceptance or being open minded, but overall that has been my experience (sadly Guatemala isn't much better than Japan either when it comes to racism, sexism, homosexuality, religion).

    Sorry, I'll finally get to my point.  Naomi Osaka's father is Haitian and her mother is Japanese.  Naomi was raised in the United States.  Some of the most interesting reactions I've seen on social media (comments on twitter/youtube) from Japanese people are celebrating her win as one of their own.   Hopefully in some small way this could help people of Japan help become more inclusive and change their perceptions on what it means to be Japanese, or at the very least learn to appreciate people of different backgrounds.

    PS.   Sadly the comments I also saw on the videos of her winning included a lot of "I can't believe Americans are booing a Japanese beating them!   Americans are the worst."   I suppose most of us make those statements when we see a group of people do one thing without context and assume every one of "those people" are a certain way :/. I wish I could go spend all day committing on clarifying that people weren't booing the fact that a Japanese people won, but...
    You didn't hijack it. You actually touched on an excellent point as to why Naomi winning is important and a culturally significant thing beyond her being the first Japanese to win a Grand Slam.  It's something I too hope pushes the discussion in Japan on inclusion.

    There's also another key thing about Naomi, but it probably won't come to the forefront until a couple years from now, and it's the issue of Japan forcing dual citizens to choose one citizenship after 22 years of age. If she remains a top player and maintains her popularity I wonder if it brings a broader discussion on if what Japan is doing is best for it's citizens. Maybe Japan gives Naomi an exception and that discussion goes nowhere, but it's interesting to think about. 
    First off i did not know that Japan had such laws regarding citizenship. 
    Second, I’ve heard several say (not on this thread) Serena was going to lose the match anyway. Whoever said that has no idea what they’re talking about. Serena was only down one break of serve (4-3) at the the time and after the game penalty it became 5-3. If serena breaks Osaka’s serve to bring it to 4-4, a champion like Serena  could have very easily taken the set and eventually won the third set to win the match. Ramos removed the pressure of a 20 year old Osaka having to maintain her one break lead, which given the moment and her legendary opposition, would have been highly  pressure packed. 

    I mentioned it above (that she was getting beat). Osaka also beat Williams back in March 6-3, 6-2. She was getitng out played by Osaka and we can talk about “what if’s”, but she’s better than you’re giving her credit for. She’s climbed from being ranked 72nd to 7th that should be indication enough that she is playing lights out this year. 
    Aww_PHuuCkJovial_FalconNoel
  • This story, and the responses to it, have made me lose faith in the average american all over again. 

    I have seen soooo many defenses of that obviously racist cartoon of "haven't you ever seen satire, bro?" It's fucking exhausting. And if people don't think Serena being a black woman had anything to do with the initial tiff between her and the ump, and literally EVERYTHING to do with the responses to it, they're blind, ignorant, or racist. 
    Aww_PHuuCkJaimieTphoenyx1023
  • KingKobra said:
    adobo1148 said:
    aki said:
    Not to hijack the thread, but I wanted to add something from a different perspective.

    My dad was Japanese, and my mom from Guatemala.    Japan is a very homogeneous country where diversity isn't necessarily embraced or celebrated (at least not well) by most.   I was born in Guatemala, and got education in both countries  (went to elementary school in both countries, junior high school in Guatemala, and high school in Japan).  Although I have a Japanese name, and I am half Japanese, no matter how well I spoke the language, or how well I understood the language I was seen as an outsider.  In fact, the better I spoke the language and acted "Japanese", the harsher people would evaluate me, finding the smallest thing to call me out and claim "of course you wouldn't understand this, you're not Japanese."   My dad's family being usually the harshest of critics.

    A lot of people still expect people other than themselves to behave in broad stereotypical ways, and although you may think "how is that different than most other places?", my experience has been that on the whole, people here in the United States have been more accepting and open minded.   Sure, not every person I've met her has the same level of acceptance or being open minded, but overall that has been my experience (sadly Guatemala isn't much better than Japan either when it comes to racism, sexism, homosexuality, religion).

    Sorry, I'll finally get to my point.  Naomi Osaka's father is Haitian and her mother is Japanese.  Naomi was raised in the United States.  Some of the most interesting reactions I've seen on social media (comments on twitter/youtube) from Japanese people are celebrating her win as one of their own.   Hopefully in some small way this could help people of Japan help become more inclusive and change their perceptions on what it means to be Japanese, or at the very least learn to appreciate people of different backgrounds.

    PS.   Sadly the comments I also saw on the videos of her winning included a lot of "I can't believe Americans are booing a Japanese beating them!   Americans are the worst."   I suppose most of us make those statements when we see a group of people do one thing without context and assume every one of "those people" are a certain way :/. I wish I could go spend all day committing on clarifying that people weren't booing the fact that a Japanese people won, but...
    You didn't hijack it. You actually touched on an excellent point as to why Naomi winning is important and a culturally significant thing beyond her being the first Japanese to win a Grand Slam.  It's something I too hope pushes the discussion in Japan on inclusion.

    There's also another key thing about Naomi, but it probably won't come to the forefront until a couple years from now, and it's the issue of Japan forcing dual citizens to choose one citizenship after 22 years of age. If she remains a top player and maintains her popularity I wonder if it brings a broader discussion on if what Japan is doing is best for it's citizens. Maybe Japan gives Naomi an exception and that discussion goes nowhere, but it's interesting to think about. 
    First off i did not know that Japan had such laws regarding citizenship. 
    Second, I’ve heard several say (not on this thread) Serena was going to lose the match anyway. Whoever said that has no idea what they’re talking about. Serena was only down one break of serve (4-3) at the the time and after the game penalty it became 5-3. If serena breaks Osaka’s serve to bring it to 4-4, a champion like Serena  could have very easily taken the set and eventually won the third set to win the match. Ramos removed the pressure of a 20 year old Osaka having to maintain her one break lead, which given the moment and her legendary opposition, would have been highly  pressure packed. 

    I mentioned it above (that she was getting beat). Osaka also beat Williams back in March 6-3, 6-2. She was getitng out played by Osaka and we can talk about “what if’s”, but she’s better than you’re giving her credit for. She’s climbed from being ranked 72nd to 7th that should be indication enough that she is playing lights out this year. 
    I dont think i was taking credit from her at all. I was just making the point that the pressure of the moment for a young player in their first grand slam final can be overwhelming. yes she beat her before, which no doubt gave her confidence going into this match. However too many many tennis matches have turned so quickly in circumstances less meaningful than an umpire taking a game from someone. It’s happened to young players and it happens to the greats. 
  • edited September 2018
    adobo1148 said:
    First off i did not know that Japan had such laws regarding citizenship. 
    Second, I’ve heard several say (not on this thread) Serena was going to lose the match anyway. Whoever said that has no idea what they’re talking about. Serena was only down one break of serve (4-3) at the the time and after the game penalty it became 5-3. If serena breaks Osaka’s serve to bring it to 4-4, a champion like Serena  could have very easily taken the set and eventually won the third set to win the match. Ramos removed the pressure of a 20 year old Osaka having to maintain her one break lead, which given the moment and her legendary opposition, would have been highly  pressure packed. 

    You're not wrong that Serena had the ability to comeback. I mean hell I've seen it myself all the years I've followed the Williams sisters, but we also can't ignore that Naomi was so dominant in the tournament that she could've opened a damn bakery with the amount of bagels and breadsticks she served to her opposition. 

    I do think its inaccurate though to say Ramos removed the pressure at all for Naomi. Sure if you're just looking at a score sheet she got a nice cushion, but if you take the context of the actual environment she was in, I'd argue he put her under a lot more pressure than if she had naturally won her 5th game. Remember Serena won her serve immediately and quite convincingly after the game penalty to pull in 5-4. Now add a stadium booing and yelling, you know you got gifted a free game, you're looking at your pissed off idol you followed all your years who has crushed the hearts of many in comebacks, AND on the verge of a championship? I don't know man I'd shit my pants. And you know what? Naomi crushed her serves to nip it in the bud right there. 
  • Dee said:
    @cdrive Mark Knight isn’t in trouble - Herald Sun is a racist rag and he’s known for his racist cartoons. They’ll be loving the attention. 
    Looks like he's shut down Twitter now - couldn't handle all that attention he wanted. 
    amyja89cdriveDee
  • Dee said:
    @cdrive Mark Knight isn’t in trouble - Herald Sun is a racist rag and he’s known for his racist cartoons. They’ll be loving the attention. 
    Looks like he's shut down Twitter now - couldn't handle all that attention he wanted. 
    Sounds like the snowflake was triggered. 
    Aww_PHuuCk
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    Dee said:
    @cdrive Mark Knight isn’t in trouble - Herald Sun is a racist rag and he’s known for his racist cartoons. They’ll be loving the attention. 
    Looks like he's shut down Twitter now - couldn't handle all that attention he wanted. 
    Good. Never heard of the guy but holy hell that was racist af.
    JaimieTAww_PHuuCkKingKobra
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