My Star Wars New Trilogy Rant

HatorianHatorian Dagobah
edited March 8 in Movies
I finally sat down and watched in order the Star Wars series based on the guys coverage. 

if you don’t care about Star Wars or don’t want to hear someone bitch then these are not the droids you’re looking for..

Disney buying Star Wars is not the problem. They have done a magnificent job on the MCU. And with proper care could have done the same with Star Wars.

I actually don’t have many problems with the series until the new trilogy.

theres a ton wrong witg the prequels. But George Lucas warned us before hand. He said he was making these movies for his kids. Not for the fans.

Blame him all you want but the phantom menace was a kids movie because George wanted it to be.

Attack of the clones is just bad. They try to tell a love story and they fail. But it doesn’t ruin any character. And it progresses the story as it should. Just not in the best way possible.  

Revenge of the sith is actually pretty good. 

4-6: no major complaints. Expect I fully believe that if endor was Wookiee instead of Ewoks RTOJ would be considered the best Star Wars movie of all time. Or at least the third act would be considered the best stars Wars on film. 

Before 7. Disney purchases Star Wars. Here is where we really get to the major problem. While Kevin Feig who runs the MCU runs a tight ship and builds a cohesive narrative the Stars Universe gets Kantleen Kennedy who does not. They decide that the sequel trilogy should not have a prepared theme/story. They decide to let each movie stand on its own and give the directors their own creative control. They do not put a single power in charge of mapping out a coherent story and then letting the directors add their flavour. So we get the sequels trilogy. An unorganised mess 


7. Now here is where we start to get to the problems regarding the sequel trilogy. Doesn’t matter if Abrhams or Disney is at fault. But rehashing a new hope was a horrible idea and made no sense. Making the new order as powerful as the empire went against everything we saw at the end of 6. And no you cannot fill the gaps with books. It needs to be on screen. It’s just a lazy rehash. Now on top  of this lazy rehash. Abrams decides to Paint our favourite hero Luke in a corner by making a storyline that he has run away, but conviently leaves a map to be found...yea ok.... So before you start hating on Rian Johnson, realise Abrams wrote Luke into a corner and fucked Johnson on how to make it work..

8. Now we are supposed to believe after the resistance destroys starkiller base they are on the run and losing the war? Huh? So the first order is soooo strong they can lose their giant weapon and still be winning the war. WTF? So then we finally get to Luke. Which I will defend Rian Johnson was put into a Writers corner by Abrams. He had to make Luke out to be this guy who made mistakes and was despondent. Yet why the map? Oh we never get that answer. Don’t worry though. It’s all Rians fault. So then we get this whole storyline of Luke has given in which completely contradicts his previous arc.

and I’m not even mad about that. People change and people get pessimistic. But then the final act is Luke going to Leia and saying he can’t save Ben? And doesn’t even try? That’s just 100% against the characters core values and beliefs. Now the first order is basically the empire and the resistance is the alliance. Episode 9 sounds exciting! 

ultimately It comes down to 3 things.

1. Disney fucked up by not putting a person/team in charge of mapping out the story arc and letting directors fill the creative differences 
2. JJ and the Writers of 7 totally fucked the entire sequel trilogy by rehashing a new hope and writing Luke into a corner 
3. Rian while, put into a shitty position with Luke got a big fucking head and decided to flip the entire story and characters for whatever reason and ruined the legacy


We had one....one fucking chance....to see Luke, Leia, Han, and the other original characters on screen for one moment and they fucked it up. It’s the biggest middle finger to Star Wars fans. It can’t be undone. 
I don’t envy JJ. I wish I could write the story for 9 but obviously I can’t. But it’s going to be a tall order to raise this shitty destroyed X-wing from the waters. 
CretanBulldarwinfeeshyJoshuaHeterLandscrapingChinaskigroovydooley
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Comments

  • It felt like I was virtually alone in how terrible I thought 7 was.  I think JJ ruined every character and completely shit on the movies that I loved so much. 

    Return of the Jedi has a great ending.  Every character's arc is completed.  Everyone's story has been told.  There's resolution on all fronts.  The closing few seconds show the heroes together and happy.  Han and Leia are in love, Ben, Anakin, and Yoda are reunited, R2-D2 and C-3PO are dancing and Luke is taking it all in with the satisfaction of a job well done.  Luke went through hell, but everything he was experiencing in that moment made it all worthwhile.  It was a fairy tale ending.

    Then epsiode7 comes along.

    Han and Leia?  Nope, they're not in love - they're divorced.  The ship that Han loves?  That's gone too, someone stole it from him.  At least he's got a son to love.  Nope, his son is a psychopathic killer.  Wow, that sucks but it's going to be awesome to see Han restored to his former glory.  Nope, he dies. 

    R2-D2 and C-3P0?  Well, it turns out that C-3P0 didn't have an arc at all.  The dancing that we saw at the end of RotJ wasn't an indication of being changed by his experiences, it was...well, nothing because when this movie starts its as if none of that happened.  How about R2-D2? That poor guy is now catatonically depressed.  The droid who we last saw dancing and partying is now in the grips of a depression so bad that he can't even make a beep.

    What about everything that they fought for?  The Empire had fallen, the Rebels won!  Nope.  The Empire was just a flash in the pan, they've been replaced by a carbon copy of the Empire.  Turns out our heroes didn't accomplish anything at all.

    Wow.  Things are looking terrible right now.  It's going to take Luke to save his friends and the universe!  Nope, he just decided to bugger off.  When things got bad, the hero chose to sake 'fuck it' and went into hiding.
     
    Could JJ have ruined/disservice these characters and the first 3 movies any worse than this?  Every single dip he made into the past was to shit on it. 

    I really wish he just made a movie about Rey, Finn, and Poe.  I could have liked that.

    To your point @Hatorian for whatever problems there are with Johnson's movie (and there are a lot of problems!) he inherited a giant turd from JJ.  Most of the people who hate this movie refuse to acknowledge that.  Johnson came up with less than perfect solutions, but he never should have been put into a situation where it was his job to make his own movie while simultaneously having to fix JJ's problems.
    HatorianDummyJoshuaHeterLandscrapingMajorMalfunction
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    @CretanBull

    couldnt have said it better. It’s a fucking shitshow. I’ve tried my best to like and defend the sequels but every time I watch the new movies they get worse not better. 
    CretanBullJoshuaHeter
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited March 8
    The frustrating thing is if they just told us Rey's story it could have been good.  If the pitch was a movie about a girl who discovers the force and her two sidekicks are a reformed Storm Trooper and an ace pilot - that sounds cool, I'm in.

    HatorianJoshuaHeterLandscraping
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Luke learned to tuck tail and run when things got scary from Yoda and Obi-Wan. Aside from the prequels being generally bad, that was the thing that I hated more than anything. Yes, we knew they had to survive but they way did it just like pure cowardice.

    I don't agree though that JJ screwed it all up by having everything change from the end of RotJ. It seems way more boring to pick the story back up thirty years later like, "Well, nothing has changed. Everything is still great. Oh no, here comes the bad guys!"

    When we first met them all the things were fucked up too. Han was doing alright I suppose, barely scraping by as a smuggler. Luke though was a whiny farm boy about to lose his surrogate parents and Leia was being held prisoner by her father and about to watch her home world get destroyed. You gotta have the heroes fight their way out of the darkness.

    I also think the "Holdo Maneuver" stuff is way overblown. It's sci-fi. They can easily invent some hyperspace interdictor or some other tech that can shield themselves from things like that. It's like being mad at the Death Star's giant lazer cannon. No one had blown up an entire planet before but that doesn't mean it ruined all warfare in that universe. You figure out a way to fight back.

    I hope I've conveyed my thoughts properly. I do not think anyone is wrong for disliking these new movies. They have their problems but I guess I am still under the spell of Star Wars enough to look past their flaws. I was more mad at the awful jokes they tried to force into Last Jedi. That stupid Poe joke at the beginning with Hux? Oof. The theater was uncomfortably silent during that.
    Landscraping[Deleted User]weeniegirl
  • I saw someone explain that the Holdo Maneuver wouldn’t have worked had they not lowered the shields on Snokes ship 
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited March 8
    "I don't agree though that JJ screwed it all up by having everything change from the end of RotJ. It seems way more boring to pick the story back up thirty years later like, "Well, nothing has changed. Everything is still great. Oh no, here comes the bad guys!"

    Theoretically there wasn't a problem.  Resetting everything to back to near square one was the problem, particularly with no explanation.  I mean, after 2 minutes of thinking, I think my brand new idea of the opposition being the Rebel Revolutionary Guard who believe the they are guarding the purity of the Rebellion and the hidebound bureaucrats and administrators are the revisionists corrupting institutions by compromising, (insert Dark Jedi Snoke influence somewhere along the way), is a better idea than what they went with.  I can't believe they didn't have better ideas.  

    "I also think the "Holdo Maneuver" stuff is way overblown. It's sci-fi. They can easily invent some hyperspace interdictor or some other tech that can shield themselves from things like that. It's like being mad at the Death Star's giant lazer cannon. No one had blown up an entire planet before but that doesn't mean it ruined all warfare in that universe. You figure out a way to fight back."
     

    More amateur hour.  As if putting a big ass engine on something and running it into another thing was some sort of majestic idea.  It would probably have been among the first things people tried with hyperdrives.  Perhaps accidentally when they shot into an asteroid and saw the effects.  The Death Star had consistent, in-world issues -  the exhaust port wasn't even that big a deal even without the explanation, that's an example of something that's hand waveable.  The Holdo Manuever changes space combat.  I mean, why were they even bothering with that hyper slow bomber at the beginning of the movie when you can hyperdrive crap at the Star Destroyer?

    And furthermore, they have these magnificent, sentient droids that they already kinda treat like crap for some reason.  Some of them are Astromechs.  So it's really pretty easy to put the Holdo Maneuver together with astro mech droids and hey, you've got super effective kamikazes where you don't even lose anyone.

    #Holdodidn'thavetodie.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    @Doctor_Nick I like your idea a whole lot! Could have been a way more intriguing way to go. But that feels like too intricate of plot for Star Wars. These movies are inspired by old space serials from the 40s and 50s. They are for kids so they will also be way more broader than that. I'm not saying that's what I want but that's what they've been making since 1977.
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited March 8

    I don't agree though that JJ screwed it all up by having everything change from the end of RotJ. It seems way more boring to pick the story back up thirty years later like, "Well, nothing has changed. Everything is still great. Oh no, here comes the bad guys!"
    I think the mistake was including those characters at all.  Their story had been told, JJ didn't need to bring them back. If for sales/marketing etc they wanted to use those characters, fine but make them supporting characters/cameos etc.  That should have been Rey's movie.  Every time she was on screen I was interested.  Every time one of the old timers  was trotted out it was like nails on a chalkboard for me.
    weeniegirl
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    I had no problem with Luke's story arch, at least in how he had a moment of human doubt and darkness as a middle-aged man (which he snapped out of within seconds) and the shame of that moment and it's fallout forcing Luke into hiding from the world. I did like his force projection fight, although I thought it was dumb that they killed him off because he was tired. Seemed silly and pointless, especially now knowing that Force ghosts can still manipulate the world around them, as evidenced by the fact that force ghost Yoda made lightning rain down to burn down a tree. So it's not as if Luke's death even takes him off the chess board as far as him being able to fight and effect the ending in episode 9. I struggle to understand the point in his death.

    Han dying in TFA was fine, because he live and died as essentially the same guy we all knew and loved, and it made sense in furthering his sons story arch. Plus we all know that Harrison Ford would only do the movie if they killed Han off, so I don't know what the other options were.

    The Holdo maneuver was just whatever to me. I mean, it makes sense that someone could do that, although I always assumed that there was some built-in navigational AI that didn't allow ships to hit objects while in hyperspace. Buuuut, we did already see in SW where they jumped into hyperspace and they essentially ran into a planet, only saving themselves by manually stopping the ship a millisecond before they would have been obliterated. I get that this raises questions of why this isn't a normal thing in space battle, but I would imagine that these ships are precious in value, especially for the RebelAlliance who would be the most likely to do this (since they are more desperate and don't have ships the size or power of the Empire's Star Destroyers).

    I do 100% agree that they could have just manually programmed the ship or had a droid to do this while Holdo escaped. There is no explanation around that. 
    Landscrapingweeniegirl
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    The convoluted sum of my feelings on TLJ are this: I didn't hate it and had fun watching in theaters, but I just left kind of empty. The Last Jedi isn't a very re-watchable movie for me, yet I don't dislike it for most of the reasons that most TLJ critics dislike it for. It just left something to be desired that I can't put my finger on.

    Maybe it's just having too much SW since TFA was released and I was just tired of it by the time TLJ was released? Maybe the TLJ critics ruined it for me subconsciously after I watched it? I honestly don't know.
    MurderbearLandscraping
  • I thought TFA 3 trailers leading up to the theatrical release were absolutely perfect and set the tone for what’s to come. After seeing the film I thought it was pretty good, although a little too similar to ANH but I get that they were going for a ‘soft reboot’ for new fans. I’m ok with that but the movie isn’t terribly re-watchable to me. 

    Then along comes RJ. First few minutes we get a mom joke. Huh?  Not a great way to set the mood for the second trilogy installment in the largest sci-fi franchise of all time.  Then finally we get to the scene we all have been waiting 2 years for and RJ turns it into a ZOINK moment, Luke tossing his fathers lightsaber over his shoulder.  At that moment I knew this wasn’t going to be good.  Then the Mary Poppins scene.  I mean what the fuck. Seriously. What the fuck. That part never should have made it into the film and when it was screened by the studio beforehand someone should have been fired. Those 3 things ruined it for me. I don’t care about Rose even tho I felt her character was poorly written and didn’t make sense at time. I don’t care about social messages that seem to upset certain people. I don’t care about Lukes character running away, as it wasn’t really different from Yoda or Ben Kenaobi. No movie is perfect and I can live with those and still enjoy it. But RJ simply has a very poor grasp of the SW universe and doesn’t seem to understand story arcs. The second part of a trilogy is pretty important and he abandoned a lot of the threads from 7. Oh yeah he “subverted our expectations” but just because something is unpredictable doesn’t make it good.  It made a boat load of money but it’s part of a very large franchise and continuing story so people are going to see it. I saw it twice in the theatre just to give it another chance. I tried again on Netflix but turned it off after about 20 mins.  It’s just  garbage.  I’ve been a huge SW fan from the beginning. I’ve seen every movie opening day since ESB and am not even remotely fired up for 9 and that is entirely due to 8’s utter derailment.  Oh well, it’s certainly not the end of the world but goddamn how hard is it to make this decent? 

    Murderbear
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    I thought TFA 3 trailers leading up to the theatrical release were absolutely perfect and set the tone for what’s to come. After seeing the film I thought it was pretty good, although a little too similar to ANH but I get that they were going for a ‘soft reboot’ for new fans. I’m ok with that but the movie isn’t terribly re-watchable to me. 

    Then along comes RJ. First few minutes we get a mom joke. Huh?  Not a great way to set the mood for the second trilogy installment in the largest sci-fi franchise of all time.  Then finally we get to the scene we all have been waiting 2 years for and RJ turns it into a ZOINK moment, Luke tossing his fathers lightsaber over his shoulder.  At that moment I knew this wasn’t going to be good.  Then the Mary Poppins scene.  I mean what the fuck. Seriously. What the fuck. That part never should have made it into the film and when it was screened by the studio beforehand someone should have been fired. Those 3 things ruined it for me. I don’t care about Rose even tho I felt her character was poorly written and didn’t make sense at time. I don’t care about social messages that seem to upset certain people. I don’t care about Lukes character running away, as it wasn’t really different from Yoda or Ben Kenaobi. No movie is perfect and I can live with those and still enjoy it. But RJ simply has a very poor grasp of the SW universe and doesn’t seem to understand story arcs. The second part of a trilogy is pretty important and he abandoned a lot of the threads from 7. Oh yeah he “subverted our expectations” but just because something is unpredictable doesn’t make it good.  It made a boat load of money but it’s part of a very large franchise and continuing story so people are going to see it. I saw it twice in the theatre just to give it another chance. I tried again on Netflix but turned it off after about 20 mins.  It’s just  garbage.  I’ve been a huge SW fan from the beginning. I’ve seen every movie opening day since ESB and am not even remotely fired up for 9 and that is entirely due to 8’s utter derailment.  Oh well, it’s certainly not the end of the world but goddamn how hard is it to make this decent? 

    You forgot “chrome dome”.
    Landscraping
  • All I'm gonna say is that I thought TLJ and TFA were fine, the prequels are still garbage and both TLJ and TFA are better than any of the prequels, but it is depressing that the best star wars movie since 1983 was a completely unnecessary prequel story about how the death star plans got stolen. 

    At the end of the day, though, whatever. It's just movies. None of this makes the OG 3 worse. I can still watch them and like them. 
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
    MurderbearLandscrapingCretanBullDummyFreddy
  • Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
      Original or post-Lucasized?
    JoshuaHeter
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    CapeGabe said:
    Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
      Original or post-Lucasized?
    Excellent point... despecialized all the way.
    Landscraping
  • CapeGabe said:
    Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
      Original or post-Lucasized?
    Excellent point... despecialized all the way.
    I am begging for the day when Disney realizes they'd like to make a quick billion and release the original original trilogy on blue ray. It might make me actually buy physical media. 
    Murderbear
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    asmallcat said:
    CapeGabe said:
    Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
      Original or post-Lucasized?
    Excellent point... despecialized all the way.
    I am begging for the day when Disney realizes they'd like to make a quick billion and release the original original trilogy on blue ray. It might make me actually buy physical media. 

    Is it not on blu ray already? I see some collections out there, are they the special editions with all the edits or something?
  • Even Rotj has problems. Ewoks. Vader losing to Luke .The historical documents had Vader and Luke ruling the galaxy together as father and son, but Lucas had to change the story to make it more palatable.. . 
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    asmallcat said:
    CapeGabe said:
    Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
      Original or post-Lucasized?
    Excellent point... despecialized all the way.
    I am begging for the day when Disney realizes they'd like to make a quick billion and release the original original trilogy on blue ray. It might make me actually buy physical media. 
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/star-wars-six-disc-box-set-holy-Trinity-despecialized-blu-ray-trilogy-empire/183718390428?hash=item2ac6782a9c:g:VEkAAOSwYi5b65ld
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    jhpark said:
    Even Rotj has problems. Ewoks. Vader losing to Luke .The historical documents had Vader and Luke ruling the galaxy together as father and son, but Lucas had to change the story to make it more palatable.. . 

    Landscraping
  • jhpark said:
    Even Rotj has problems. Ewoks. Vader losing to Luke .The historical documents had Vader and Luke ruling the galaxy together as father and son, but Lucas had to change the story to make it more palatable.. . 
    Ummm... Vader didn’t lose to Luke. He was trying to turn him, not kill.  If his goal was the latter he wouldn’t have made it out of Bespin. 
  • The prequels blow, the new ones are made dumb and horribly. The original trilogy is all that resonates with me because of seeing them as a kid. Even by RotJ I was old enough to see they were marketing to kids so that's a bit tainted to me.

    I can't even enjoy the original trilogy anymore. Whenever I see one of the added or changed scenes I groan and roll my eyes and takes me right out of the movie.
    Doctor_NickCretanBullJoshuaHeter
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    I think an obvious arc would have been having the old characters think they were handling things, only to have them spiral out of control and get into a situation where they realize they need to hand off to a new generation of Rey/Finn/Poe etc.  I'm still not sure why Leia didn't die in 2.  They could have found a different way to show she had force powers.

    I also think it would be good to write more of the mainstream Star Wars movies without needing the Chosen One trope. The becoming Chosen is a good story, but it becomes very hard to write good stories when one character blows the others away....


    I don't agree though that JJ screwed it all up by having everything change from the end of RotJ. It seems way more boring to pick the story back up thirty years later like, "Well, nothing has changed. Everything is still great. Oh no, here comes the bad guys!"
    I think the mistake was including those characters at all.  Their story had been told, JJ didn't need to bring them back. If for sales/marketing etc they wanted to use those characters, fine but make them supporting characters/cameos etc.  That should have been Rey's movie.  Every time she was on screen I was interested.  Every time one of the old timers  was trotted out it was like nails on a chalkboard for me.

  • asmallcat said:
    CapeGabe said:
    Star Wars is... 

    1. Star Wars (i.e. the 1977 film),
    2. The Empire Strikes Back, and
    3. Return of the Jedi.

    Everything else is fan fiction (even the prequels).

    *Sticks fingers in ears, closes eyes...

    ”Lalala... I can’t hear you... lalala!”
      Original or post-Lucasized?
    Excellent point... despecialized all the way.
    I am begging for the day when Disney realizes they'd like to make a quick billion and release the original original trilogy on blue ray. It might make me actually buy physical media. 

    Is it not on blu ray already? I see some collections out there, are they the special editions with all the edits or something?
    I think there are some fan made ones, but nothing official. I think the best-known is a combination of unaltered scenes from the blu-rays and the laser disc editions.  
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    I probably should have clarified I was actually a TFA and TLJ defender until after watching them for like the 5th time. I Have actually been converted to the haters side. The new movies just get worse and worse and their warts bigger and bigger.

    the milenium falcon just happens to be on Jakku? Han just happens to meet up with Rey? This is a galaxy. The chances of these things happening are 0.0000000000000000000001%. It’s ridiculous. I could get over these “coincidents” if the story was good but it just falls flat.

    And every time I watch Han die and this stupid map to Luke I just shake my head in disbelief that someone who was such a big fan of 80s sci-fi was so incompetent/delusional/unaware/uncaring to think “hey, maybe the Star Wars fans would love to see the entire original cast together in a scene” and then find a damn way to make it work. Honestly after seeing what JJ did with Star Trek I honestly think he just sabotaged 7 and now I have no faith in 9. 
    JoshuaHeterLandscrapingBroRad33
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Everything Wrong With The Last Jedi https://youtu.be/vclEFBv_8_w
  • Hatorian said:
    I probably should have clarified I was actually a TFA and TLJ defender until after watching them for like the 5th time. I Have actually been converted to the haters side. The new movies just get worse and worse and their warts bigger and bigger.

    the milenium falcon just happens to be on Jakku? Han just happens to meet up with Rey? This is a galaxy. The chances of these things happening are 0.0000000000000000000001%. It’s ridiculous. I could get over these “coincidents” if the story was good but it just falls flat.

    And every time I watch Han die and this stupid map to Luke I just shake my head in disbelief that someone who was such a big fan of 80s sci-fi was so incompetent/delusional/unaware/uncaring to think “hey, maybe the Star Wars fans would love to see the entire original cast together in a scene” and then find a damn way to make it work. Honestly after seeing what JJ did with Star Trek I honestly think he just sabotaged 7 and now I have no faith in 9. 
    This is true of 99% of stories. Most stories that aren't slice of life NEED coincidences to move forward, or else nothing would happen. What are the chances Bilbo would fall down THAT hole? What are the chances Leia's droids would end up with Jawas that would end up selling them to Luke's uncle? What are the chances the kidnappers would take Liam Neeson's daughter in Taken? What are the chances of Sandra Bullock surviving in Gravity? What are the chances of almost any event starting a story happening, or 2 parties meeting up, or anything? There are definitely problems with the new SW movies, but I find "what are the chances' arguments almost never compelling. 
    Doctor_Nick
  • I think an obvious arc would have been having the old characters think they were handling things, only to have them spiral out of control and get into a situation where they realize they need to hand off to a new generation of Rey/Finn/Poe etc.  I'm still not sure why Leia didn't die in 2.  They could have found a different way to show she had force powers.

    I also think it would be good to write more of the mainstream Star Wars movies without needing the Chosen One trope. The becoming Chosen is a good story, but it becomes very hard to write good stories when one character blows the others away....


    I don't agree though that JJ screwed it all up by having everything change from the end of RotJ. It seems way more boring to pick the story back up thirty years later like, "Well, nothing has changed. Everything is still great. Oh no, here comes the bad guys!"
    I think the mistake was including those characters at all.  Their story had been told, JJ didn't need to bring them back. If for sales/marketing etc they wanted to use those characters, fine but make them supporting characters/cameos etc.  That should have been Rey's movie.  Every time she was on screen I was interested.  Every time one of the old timers  was trotted out it was like nails on a chalkboard for me.

    That would have been better, but my preference would have been to just not even have the originals in these movies.  If they had to address the question of why aren't Luke etc getting involved, some old wise character could have told Rey "their time is passed, its your turn now".

    If Rey is a hidden Skywalker, that will sink the franchise for me.  
    BroRad33
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