802 - “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”

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  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    This comparison is EXACTLY what was going through my mind while Pod was singing to that montage. Surely others had the same LOTR flashbacks?


    weeniegirlStorkiemeg
  • How racists is the north? or am i the only one thinking that?
    And did Greyworm say when this is all done, hes taking Messandi and his army back to Naarth?
    Is everyone over Danny and her Throne winning nonsense. 
    telephoneofmadnessDee
  • Llauren said:
    How racists is the north? or am i the only one thinking that?
    And did Greyworm say when this is all done, hes taking Messandi and his army back to Naarth?
    Is everyone over Danny and her Throne winning nonsense. 
    They hinted the uncomfortableness in S8E1. The North, in general, doesn't trust outsiders. Most of those people have never seen a person of color before. 
    SanguinePenguin
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I think the show wants you to think that, but also, they look at EVERYONE who came in Dany's party that way.

    He did promise her that his army would protect her and her people in Naath which does seem like a wild promise to make with Dany's army.
  • I can't help but wonder if people would be this squeamish about Arya/Gendry if she was conventionally "hot" and more feminine in appearance/behavior.  I could be wrong but I think that has something to do with it. It's not the love scene we are used to seeing with our typical female characters.

    telephoneofmadnessgguenotunreadElisamajjam0770psxpaulUnderwood
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Llauren said:
    How racists is the north? or am i the only one thinking that?
    And did Greyworm say when this is all done, hes taking Messandi and his army back to Naarth?
    Is everyone over Danny and her Throne winning nonsense. 
    You aren't the only one, but I mean, it's an isolated part of the continent in this medieval universe that has never seen a person that looks like Missandei or Greyworm. Combine that with the fact that the northerners are already unwelcoming to foreigners and 'outsiders' of any skin color or hair type, and you have a handful of cringey scenes like that. They are also stink-eyeing Dany, who is probably the whitest person on the show. 

    If this keeps up after the battle is done and the northern survivors are still stink-eyeing Missandei, Greyworm and anyone that came with Dany's party, that's when I'm going to start wondering exactly what point D&D are making by harping on the idea that northerners are super assholes beyond all tethers of reality.
    alexander.klassen
  • I think the show wants you to think that, but also, they look at EVERYONE who came in Dany's party that way.

    He did promise her that his army would protect her and her people in Naath which does seem like a wild promise to make with Dany's army.
    I'm pretty sure Dany granted all of the unsullied their freedom. If she's true to her word they could leave whenever they want. 
    telephoneofmadnessSanguinePenguin
  • edited April 22

    I can't help but wonder if people would be this squeamish about Arya/Gendry if she was conventionally "hot" and more feminine in appearance/behavior.  I could be wrong but I think that has something to do with it. It's not the love scene we are used to seeing with our typical female characters.

    I don't think the reaction would be much different.  I think it has mostly to do with the fact that when we first met Maisie Williams she was 13 or 14 years old I believe and the show made her out to seem much younger than that.  She was very much a child and we've seen her grow up in the show.  At least this is my feelings about it and I don't think their level of "hotness" would make a bit of difference.  I'd feel the same exact way if they did something like this with any child actress that I've had an emotional investment with and followed since they were that young.  
    Travisrkcrawfblacksunrise7
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
  • edited April 22
    OliviaD said:
    Lovely use of “Jenny’s song” 
    Did you see/hear this yet? Florence and the Machine did a cover. It's beautiful. I'm all TBT to LOTR Enya/AnnieL et al.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTa1jHk1Lxc
    majjam0770OliviaD
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Giovanni said:
    I think the show wants you to think that, but also, they look at EVERYONE who came in Dany's party that way.

    He did promise her that his army would protect her and her people in Naath which does seem like a wild promise to make with Dany's army.
    I'm pretty sure Dany granted all of the unsullied their freedom. If she's true to her word they could leave whenever they want. 
    Actually, yeah, good point!
  • budesignsbudesigns Tega Cay, SC
    Giovanni said:
    I think the show wants you to think that, but also, they look at EVERYONE who came in Dany's party that way.

    He did promise her that his army would protect her and her people in Naath which does seem like a wild promise to make with Dany's army.
    I'm pretty sure Dany granted all of the unsullied their freedom. If she's true to her word they could leave whenever they want. 
    Actually, yeah, good point!
    On the same token, Grey Worm can't go pledging them to anyone. 
    alexander.klassen
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited April 22

    I can't help but wonder if people would be this squeamish about Arya/Gendry if she was conventionally "hot" and more feminine in appearance/behavior.  I could be wrong but I think that has something to do with it. It's not the love scene we are used to seeing with our typical female characters.

    I don't think the reaction would be much different.  I think it has mostly to do with the fact that when we first met Maisie Williams she was 13 or 14 years old I believe and the show made her out to seem much younger than that.  She was very much a child and we've seen her grow up in the show.  At least this is my feelings about it and I don't think their level of "hotness" would make a bit of difference.  I'd feel the same exact way if they did something like this with any child actress that I've had an emotional investment with and followed since they were that young.  
    Cosign. For me, it's just that she looks so young. I mean up until the end of that scene I completely thought Maisie wasn't even 18 yet, and I think that misunderstanding informs a great deal of what I had trouble with. I've done thinking on the matter throughout the day (as being on what I am mostly seeing as the wrong side of a polarizing issue will have you do), and I think it was that shock mostly. I never had any issue with Arya having sex*, but I was admittedly thrown seeing what I thought was a 16 or 17 year old kid (I also understand now that the math of that wouldn't work out well) who I've watched grow up, in a long running tv show sense, undressing on screen. Now, knowing more about it and contemplating all of it and hearing it from different angles I get it, but that shit did weird me out a bit. It's on me that I still see a child there and I get that, but it was jarring. 

    *EDIT: I did say it was "just wrong" but take from what I said here and add in that Gendry is a full grown man and she looks so very young in contrast to him, Look, I get it and I accept that I have been on the wrong side of this but I also don't think that was such an insane gut reaction. I can say that even with all of those disclaimers I wouldn't have been put off at all if there had been an earlier cut and if Gendry was played by a younger actor. This is all pointless, but I did want to add context because I'm incredibly neurotic and I hate the notion of seeming like I'm trying to unsay something I said before without owning it. Thank you for indulging this nonsense.
    majjam0770awookieeblacksunrise7
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    Llauren said:
    How racists is the north? or am i the only one thinking that?
    And did Greyworm say when this is all done, hes taking Messandi and his army back to Naarth?
    Is everyone over Danny and her Throne winning nonsense. 
    I have been over Dany since she walked naked out of that fire, to be honest. 
    Llaurenmanhattnik
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    I’ve kept my opinion to myself thinking it’s not a popular one, but now not so sure. So...I really want Dany as a horrible queen to come to light. Crazy? Maybe. Spiteful? Probably? A bad actress that makes her unlikeable? That’s a big part of it. Bottom line is she would never be at Jons side if he didn’t bend the knee. She doesn’t give a shit about the people. Only the Iron Throne. She wants to ride that wheel hard. I hope to see her taken down and yes, killed, by the end of the season. 
    telephoneofmadnessmanhattnikdawn2730
  • Sorry if this has been mentioned... So I was thinking about what Bran said the night king wanted. The night king wants Bran basically because he is the memory of men blah blah blah... now everyone seems to think the night king is going south with the dragon to kings landing while the rest attack winterfell and try to get Bran. What if the night king does indeed bypass winterfell but attacks the other place recording the memories of man - the citadel??? Wouldn’t this make more sense? Why would the night king care about Kings landing given what Bran has revealed about his motivations? Maybe this is also why the books Sam stole, which got another mention last episode, are equally important (ie The books Sam stole are the key to everything if Bran dies thus Sam does indeed save everyone). Is the reminder of the books last episode and Ed’s quip about Sam foreshadowing?
    TravistelephoneofmadnessrkcrawfDoctor_NickpsxpaulSanguinePenguinApril_May_JunemylifeaskirkStorkiemegElisa
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited April 22
    I’ve kept my opinion to myself thinking it’s not a popular one, but now not so sure. So...I really want Dany as a horrible queen to come to light. Crazy? Maybe. Spiteful? Probably? A bad actress that makes her unlikeable? That’s a big part of it. Bottom line is she would never be at Jons side if he didn’t bend the knee. She doesn’t give a shit about the people. Only the Iron Throne. She wants to ride that wheel hard. I hope to see her taken down and yes, killed, by the end of the season. 
    I've seen a lot of Dany stanning lately where they are giving the most positive interpretation of her actions and reactions right now. However, all of the interviews with the cast and creators have essentially said that Jon is taken aback right now by Danys initial reaction is basically 100% concerned with her claim to the Iron Throne.

    So, the viewers are SUPPOSED to be interpreting her words and reactions negatively right now, and your negatice view of her at least shouldn't be in the minority.

    Jim and A.Ron (or at least A.Ron) is really wanting a more progressive type of governing system at the end of the series, but based on her obsession with being THE one and only ruler sitting on a stupid throne, at this point Dany is the last character who would create that type of government. I dont care what she said about "Breaking the wheel," none of her words or actions have insinuated that she wants to do anything but rule in the same way that every other dictator has in Westeros.

    And narratively, I dont see how they can have the person who is most obsessed with power and the iron throne to actually be the person who sits the iron throne or rules at the end of the series.
    DeetelephoneofmadnessSanguinePenguinmylifeaskirkdawn2730
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Also, it was incredibly dumb of her to tell Sansa that she is there fighting "Jon's war". Really? A threat that affects the entire continent that she wants to rule is "Jon's war" or a northern issue? At least Cersei realizes that the white Walker threat can affect the entire kingdom.

    Aside from how dumb that sounds on the surface, part of being the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms is to be the protector of the realm. If you arent going to willingly fly your ass up to the north with your entire army in tow to protect it, then what good are you for the kingdoms that you are supposed to be ruling over? It's your only job and it's literally in the title.

    If she were really trying to break the wheel, she would tell the people in the north that they can choose and rally around their own leaders and give them whatever title they want. But she's not, and instead she is out there painting herself to be some sort of charitable person because she is fighting to protect the entire continent that she wants to rule.
    telephoneofmadnessrkcrawfSanguinePenguin

  • Jim and A.Ron (or at least A.Ron) is really wanting a more progressive type of governing system at the end of the series, but based on her obsession with being THE one and only ruler sitting on a stupid throne, at this point Dany is the last character who would create that type of government. Iseries.

    Bend the knee, bend the knee, bend the knee, bend the knee, bend the knee, bend the knee, bend the knee is Dany's MAGA hat
    podcartfanmylifeaskirk

  • lengmo said:
    Wacky theory: did Arya seek out the Hound, and was working up the courage to ask, only to get blocked by Beric? She didn't seek out Gendry, instead she was shooting arrows after leaving the Hound, which is pretty darn House Freudian. Arya probably cares less for faces than most at this point.
    Oh, gods, no!  I thought she played that scene between her, Hound, and Berric really well, like there was this look that crossed her face like "Why am I spending my last night on earth sat here listening to these bitter old farts bicker when I could be getting laid?"  In fact, that's pretty much exactly what she says.  That's when she got up to go set the bait for Gendry.  She's a hunter.
    telephoneofmadnessDoctor_NickElisa
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    rkcrawf said:
    LordBy said:
    @Travis Maisie is 22 and Joe Dempsey is 31.
    Also, for reference, Sophie Turner is one year older than Maisie Williams. Sansa’s horrifying scene with Ramsay was almost 4 years ago. 
    I still laugh at the uproar surrounding Sansa's scene. I did a rewatch of the entire show before this season, and realized:
    1. Jaime sure as shit raped Cersei in the Sept.
    2. There was a look of terror on Sansa's face, and then the camera is on Theon. That whole bit is less than 5 seconds, and none of the violence is onscreen. People's imaginations got wild, I guess.
    Yeah. It’s not like we were shown an explicit enactment of Ramsay raking Sansa. I thought it was actually handled pretty well. It’s entirely Inc Ramsay’s character to do something vile like that, so I don’t think it was gratuitous. 
  • So you guys are ok with Arya killing lots of folks and even baking some of them in pies, but her boobs have you shook? Lol

    I'll raise my hand as someone who was looking for someone to have sex with at a certain point in my freshman year of college just to see what it was like. If you all didn't feel that way, that's on you. And I wasn't facing imminent death! Just finals. 
    MurderbearElisa
  • Something just hit me in a funny way that I hadn't considered until just now.  When Jamie's being questioned about his loyalty, he says he did what he did for his family and that he'd do it again. Then, Bran drops, "the things we do for love." Jamie, Bran, Cersei and the audience know what that means, but no one else does. So, to everyone in that room, Bran just interrupted an extremely serious life-and-death conversation with a random, monotonous rumination.  And...crickets.

    I guess they've all gotten so used to Bran that they just move on without asking for clarification.  In fact, Tyrion seems to be the only one who has taken advantage of the opportunity to pick Bran's mind, but we didn't get to see where that went.  Hopefully, Bran told Tyrion some information that might be useful in the following hours and days.
    CeciliaMSanguinePenguin
  • @sarahtatuga Being socially awkward is basically Bran's superpower, as far as I can tell.  You're right how they all just roll with it.

    Anyone have any predictions for what's gonna do down in the crypts of Winterfell?  Most people seem to think it's gonna be bad news for all the noncombatants down there, but I'd bet my bottom dollar we get a cool scene with some Northern King force-ghosts protecting them.
    sarahtatuga
  • edited April 23
    ken hale said:
    Anyone have any predictions for what's gonna do down in the crypts of Winterfell?  Most people seem to think it's gonna be bad news for all the noncombatants down there, but I'd bet my bottom dollar we get a cool scene with some Northern King force-ghosts protecting them.
    Ooooo, that hadn't crossed my mind for some reason.  That would be fucking rad.
    Edit:  Since some of the resurrected/undead (Uncle Benjen, Beric, Jon, I guess) are fighting for the living, is it for sure that all "dead-dead" people can be "resurrected" and controlled by the Night King?  If the Lord of Light's real, maybe he/she/it can pull some "dead-dead" people up and control them?  Eh?
    b.larev
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Jaime knighted Brienne with Widow's Wail while she wears Othkeeper. In Winterfell. Ice was brought back together for one more honorable action! I love that.
    ken haleSanguinePenguinApril_May_JuneElisa
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    arya scene was fine. although as someone who re-watched choice episodes of the series before 8 premiere it was definitely a bit weird going from 14 year old Arya to her having sex. but in the context of society i didn't see anything wrong with it. its not like Leon the Professional where a 14 year old Natalie Portman is sleeping with a 45 year old french guy and trying to have sex with him...
    FreddyElisa
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited April 23
    EDIT: So, I'm unhappy with the WAY overly harsh tone of this so I'm going to hop in the "edit button time machine" and water it down a bit. I have to own what I said as I said it (people have read it and reacted to it and it is a thing that I wrote. It's been quoted if you want to see me go off like a jerk), but I may as well try to do it better since I have the opportunity.

    Regarding the differing impact of Arya murdering the Freys and Arya hooking up with Gendry: Sex and death are different from the aspect of being a consumer of television. They are just different. Sex is real in our lives, murder generally isn’t. I was taken aback by the image of what I thought was a kid having sex with a grown ass man and kindling was added to it having the knowledge that much of the culture (if you will) was totally on board for it. I have a complicated relationship with these things. To my eyes she looks like a child and in contrast he looks so much older. It's a complicated issue with human emotion and I think it's wrong to just write someone off as being a representative of  (what's wrong with) ‘merica and what's wrong with our culture and label them as repressed and morally bankrupt because that image evokes that, while in contrast the Frey murder is easy to dissociate. The relationship with consumers of tv with sex and death is just different (particularly with a situation as "cartoon-y" as the Frey murder). It’s a convenient straw man and sure feels compelling in the moment (even had me fooled while trying to paint my point of view as one of an unevolved asshole in the moment), but it’s totally un-nuanced. There are other "straw men" being levied, but this is by far the most prevalent. Where I do realize that I carry my own baggage into the scene, and where I have been wrong headed on many points of it, I reject the notion that the "but she killed the Freys" is a compelling argument. It ignores a simple fact. Sex is a real part of our lives and mass murder isn’t. 

    Really all i’m asking for is some middle ground and a little empathy. Why does it have to be you’re on my side or you’re a jerk with a poor moral compass, or you're some wrong headed “doesn’t get it” person who has to (as Joanna Robinson put it) needs to rethink their life choices? This is a much more complicated conversation than that.

    *still not great, but I'm at work and it's a quick band-aid. 
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Hatorian said:
    arya scene was fine. although as someone who re-watched choice episodes of the series before 8 premiere it was definitely a bit weird going from 14 year old Arya to her having sex. but in the context of society i didn't see anything wrong with it. its not like Leon the Professional where a 14 year old Natalie Portman is sleeping with a 45 year old french guy and trying to have sex with him...
    Wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that he's French.
    HatorianLadystarkSanguinePenguinElisaalexander.klassen
  • @Travis you’re entitled to your feelings. I thought it was a bit cringy in the moment, and a lot of other people did, too. Maise looks young. It’s fine to be put off by seeing someone we’ve been familiar with since childhood in a sexual context (I heard it’s an instinct that helps deter incest, but can’t remember the source). 

    I think if people were up in arms threatening to quit the show bc of it, then they should check themselves. But most people seem to have had a reaction, rationalized it, and moved on. No one should be shamed for processing. 
    TravisBloodyTacoCory
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