804 - The Last of the Starks

1568101115

Comments

  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    They’ve been taking easy way outs for a while now. Even when Euron killed the dragon those ships should have been fresh meat from behind Covering only one direction isn’t good enough against an aerial foe like a dragon, and as soon as breathed on those ships go up like tinder. Pure plot device. 

    Demerol said:
    asmallcat said:
    Why would dany have done 0 fucking scouting on her dragons. It makes no sense. Why would Sansa and Arya distrust Dany? I guess cause the writers say they should, but what has Dany actually done that would make Sansa distrust her? Why would Sansa immediately betray John to Tyrion of all people, when just 2 episodes ago she was telling him she had learned he wasn't as clever as she thought he was? Because the writers need to set up this conflict with Dany and her advisors and Jon. 

    Ugh, I lay this all at the feet of GRRM for not finishing the fucking books, but my god is the writing getting transparently obviously just to get us whatever the next plot beat is. 
    I agree with the scouting statement wholeheartedly. They could've accomplished the same thing by skipping the ambush and having Rhaegal killed by a scorpion shot from the walls of KL during the Queen-to-Queen talk. That would've put the hatred on Cersei rather than Eager-Beaver Euron, kept Misandei alive a bit longer and given lethality to the new scorpion design. 

    rustywright4CapeGabealina_macElisa
  • AnominalAnominal San Francisco Bay Area
    edited May 7
    @Demerol ;
    It is 100% a dog lover thing. I think it is symbolic that Jon is leaving behind his former Stark life, and I think Ghost will be so happy North, and I am grateful beyond belief I don't have to witness Ghost's death. But all that rationality flies out the window when Jon doesn't even boop or scritch that big, floofy, good boi. Shame! Shame! Shame! 
    No! Maybe 80% a pet lover thing. But also why keep brining him back if he's not going to do anything? If/when he reappears in the books it's not just going to be a mention that he's in the room and disappear again for another book. 

    Chekov's gun and all that. 

    If Bron is gone until the finale, he shows up and demands his payment, they say no and then he walks away disappointed... that would be bad. Why even have his scenes at all this season? I feel part of the reason is similar to this. Why show it if it is meaningless. Better to cut it out earlier. 


    Elisa
  • @Demerol ;
    It is 100% a dog lover thing. I think it is symbolic that Jon is leaving behind his former Stark life, and I think Ghost will be so happy North, and I am grateful beyond belief I don't have to witness Ghost's death. But all that rationality flies out the window when Jon doesn't even boop or scritch that big, floofy, good boi. Shame! Shame! Shame! 
    This shit had me yelling at the TV. I mean, just "peacing out" on Ghost like that is just fucking wrong, and it was TOTALLY a moment where I saw the typewriters clacking and the budget reports. Jon wasn't ever really a great wolf owner, but to not have a "moment" of it is just beyond wrong. I mean, this is an animal that he is connected to beyond most human animal relationships which can be incredibly meaningful without warging/mind meld types of influences. This was bullshit, and I refuse to believe that they couldn't have given the moment at least an ounce of gravity in comparison to the goodbyes with Tormund and Sam. That sucked. I liked the episode quite a bit, but that was bullshit.
    mostlywrightCapeGabeMurderbearUnderwoodElisamajjam0770awookieeSanguinePenguin
  • They’ve been taking easy way outs for a while now. Even when Euron killed the dragon those ships should have been fresh meat from behind Covering only one direction isn’t good enough against an aerial foe like a dragon, and as soon as breathed on those ships go up like tinder. Pure plot device. 


    You are forgetting that Euron has had time to build at least 500,000 ships by now. Likely there was another set of ships with perfectly aimed ballistas hiding behind the first set. And another set after that. 
    CapeGabealexander.klassenalina_macDoctor_NickElisabbordSanguinePenguingjames80
  • @BroRad33 Did we see a single living Dothraki this episode? I don't think they are around anymore. I think it's the remaining Unsullied that somehow survived that battle which is almost as unlikely as any Dothraki. I guess there were a contingent still inside the walls because he had that group to bring Melisandre out but that was only like 10-20 dudes.

    Honestly though, it's the best place for Ghost. Clearly Jon doesn't give a shit about his pup anymore and north of the wall is where that good good boy should be living.
    There were 3 Dothraki in the war room. You can tell because they have Araks (sp?) hanging from their belts.
    AnominalMurderbearBroRad33gjames80
  • Travis said:
    @Demerol ;
    It is 100% a dog lover thing. I think it is symbolic that Jon is leaving behind his former Stark life, and I think Ghost will be so happy North, and I am grateful beyond belief I don't have to witness Ghost's death. But all that rationality flies out the window when Jon doesn't even boop or scritch that big, floofy, good boi. Shame! Shame! Shame! 
    This shit had me yelling at the TV. I mean, just "peacing out" on Ghost like that is just fucking wrong, and it was TOTALLY a moment where I saw the typewriters clacking and the budget reports. Jon wasn't ever really a great wolf owner, but to not have a "moment" of it is just beyond wrong. I mean, this is an animal that he is connected to beyond most human animal relationships which can be incredibly meaningful without warging/mind meld types of influences. This was bullshit, and I refuse to believe that they couldn't have given the moment at least an ounce of gravity in comparison to the goodbyes with Tormund and Sam. That sucked. I liked the episode quite a bit, but that was bullshit.
    I forgot to add: So what's the consequence? I will move on and just call bullshit and go on with my life UNLESS they think they can extract some sort of hearfelt reunion between Jon and Ghost at the end. That shit is over. I will literally "BOO" at my TV is the Double D's think they can extract some "look guys, it's Ghost! Ghost and Jon: together again. Doesn't it feel great!" type of thing. The show took a giant shit on that relationship, and if it's because the show is just done with Ghost, fine, but no feelings manipulation that they did the opposite of earning. None from me at least.
  • Sansa's pettiness knows no bounds. 


    mostlywrightmajjam0770AnominalTravisrkcrawfMurderbearalina_macUnderwoodcalebthrowerDaveyMacand 4 others.
  • edited May 6
    You are forgetting that Euron has had time to build at least 500,000 ships by now. Likely there was another set of ships with perfectly aimed ballistas hiding behind the first set. And another set after that. 
    To be realistic you would have to factor in storm and kraken losses, some need repairs and you need a sustainable crew rotation so it's probably closer to 357.000 with half of that in the following sets. There are rapid fire low callibre point defence ballistas for close combat encounters and long range heat seaking railarrow ballistas on each vessel. With overlapping fields of fire a donnager class dragon would have to chew those defenses down meaning high sustained burn rates and extreme g maneuvers with just crappy Winterfell juice to go on.

    Euron and his stealth ships caught Rhaegal during his breaking burn for dragon stone, I think he tried to drop core but both hides where breached, he was venting atmosphere and than a long range plasma ballista got the cic. Better choice would have been to go teakettle down the kingsroad and use some of the northern ice haulers as cover.




    majjam0770Doctor_NickElisaSanguinePenguinweeniegirl
  • Travis said:
    Travis said:
    @Demerol ;
    It is 100% a dog lover thing. I think it is symbolic that Jon is leaving behind his former Stark life, and I think Ghost will be so happy North, and I am grateful beyond belief I don't have to witness Ghost's death. But all that rationality flies out the window when Jon doesn't even boop or scritch that big, floofy, good boi. Shame! Shame! Shame! 
    This shit had me yelling at the TV. I mean, just "peacing out" on Ghost like that is just fucking wrong, and it was TOTALLY a moment where I saw the typewriters clacking and the budget reports. Jon wasn't ever really a great wolf owner, but to not have a "moment" of it is just beyond wrong. I mean, this is an animal that he is connected to beyond most human animal relationships which can be incredibly meaningful without warging/mind meld types of influences. This was bullshit, and I refuse to believe that they couldn't have given the moment at least an ounce of gravity in comparison to the goodbyes with Tormund and Sam. That sucked. I liked the episode quite a bit, but that was bullshit.
    I forgot to add: So what's the consequence? I will move on and just call bullshit and go on with my life UNLESS they think they can extract some sort of hearfelt reunion between Jon and Ghost at the end. That shit is over. I will literally "BOO" at my TV is the Double D's think they can extract some "look guys, it's Ghost! Ghost and Jon: together again. Doesn't it feel great!" type of thing. The show took a giant shit on that relationship, and if it's because the show is just done with Ghost, fine, but no feelings manipulation that they did the opposite of earning. None from me at least.
    Same all the way. I think it is just done and over. I live in fear of expressing my feelings for this show because I am not an internet warrior and people coming at me are terrifying. With that said, I am loving this season and the reason I am is because I have to let some of that stuff just roll off and let it go. I mean, I can't let bad dog ownership go...(insert angry face). Now, I will sheepishly say that while I 100% agree there is no redeeming the Jon/Ghost guffaw-I can't promise that I wouldn't fall for the "doesn't it feel great" gambit. I am weak. 
    TravisBen
  • I was thinking back to the dream/prophecy Dany had in the House of the Undying in 210. When in KL throne room she is walking through either falling snow or ash. How do you all interpret that vision now? My thought is that the only way she will rule is by destroying it and that we were seeing ash, not snow.
    CapeGabeHunterElisaSanguinePenguin
  • Rule Number 2. Don't compare people who enjoy Game of Thrones episodes to Adam Sandler movie fans.







    That was a step too far, I admit.  Look, everyone agrees that his first few movies have a certain charm, just like everyone agrees that the first few seasons of GoT are actually good television ok I'll stop now.
    Murderbearbbord
  • Travis said:
    Travis said:
    @Demerol ;
    It is 100% a dog lover thing. I think it is symbolic that Jon is leaving behind his former Stark life, and I think Ghost will be so happy North, and I am grateful beyond belief I don't have to witness Ghost's death. But all that rationality flies out the window when Jon doesn't even boop or scritch that big, floofy, good boi. Shame! Shame! Shame! 
    This shit had me yelling at the TV. I mean, just "peacing out" on Ghost like that is just fucking wrong, and it was TOTALLY a moment where I saw the typewriters clacking and the budget reports. Jon wasn't ever really a great wolf owner, but to not have a "moment" of it is just beyond wrong. I mean, this is an animal that he is connected to beyond most human animal relationships which can be incredibly meaningful without warging/mind meld types of influences. This was bullshit, and I refuse to believe that they couldn't have given the moment at least an ounce of gravity in comparison to the goodbyes with Tormund and Sam. That sucked. I liked the episode quite a bit, but that was bullshit.
    I forgot to add: So what's the consequence? I will move on and just call bullshit and go on with my life UNLESS they think they can extract some sort of hearfelt reunion between Jon and Ghost at the end. That shit is over. I will literally "BOO" at my TV is the Double D's think they can extract some "look guys, it's Ghost! Ghost and Jon: together again. Doesn't it feel great!" type of thing. The show took a giant shit on that relationship, and if it's because the show is just done with Ghost, fine, but no feelings manipulation that they did the opposite of earning. None from me at least.
    Same all the way. I think it is just done and over. I live in fear of expressing my feelings for this show because I am not an internet warrior and people coming at me are terrifying. With that said, I am loving this season and the reason I am is because I have to let some of that stuff just roll off and let it go. I mean, I can't let bad dog ownership go...(insert angry face). Now, I will sheepishly say that while I 100% agree there is no redeeming the Jon/Ghost guffaw-I can't promise that I wouldn't fall for the "doesn't it feel great" gambit. I am weak. 
    Ha! I talk tough, but I also can't make that promise. I can promise that I will hate myself a little for falling for it though, so TAKE THAT, Double Ds. (sigh)
    mostlywright
  • Just a few things. I enjoyed the episode, but itleft me so conflicted. Maybe I enjoyed it because I am conflicted. 

    Dany's decisions. Wait, she's been making decisions most of the time based on her devoted Advisors...isn't that what she's supposed to do? Even this last one, going for a parlay, was Tyrion's advice against Dany's impulse to burn the Red Keep. As far as going south too early, it was Robb's idea years ago, to Not go back up north to regroup...because Robb knew the fighting men would just want to get back to their homes and rebuild, and wouldn't want to regroup once they were home sitting by the fire. And Cersei would never March north, she'd just continue the propaganda & building alliances. Yes you can say they are telegraphing the ugh-I-hate-the-term-mad-queen-so-much, but in my mind she's one of the only people who actually has been listening to her advisors. 

    I couldnt believe Sansa told Tyrion. I think the way Jon stressed that she had to swear to secrecy means there'll be a consequence to that. Like A.Ron mentioned, does Sansa actually think Cersei is a better alternative to Dany, or that Cersei would let Sansa rule the north? 

    I'm happy Ghost will be roaming free up north. And I'm happy Tormund lives. He reminds me of Worf, the way Worf thought human females were too fragile. 
    mostlywrightElisaOldGriswold
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Who is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne? No one. There is no such thing as the rightful heir to an inherently unjust source of power.
    mostlywrightalina_macSanguinePenguin
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    At least Jon didn't get his wolf killed and also forced his little sister to throw rocks at her wolf to chase it away in the same episode in season 1.

    Anyhow, here we go down memory lane of the better times:













    MrXMurderbearalina_macUnderwoodElisaawookieeSanguinePenguingjames80
  • Thanks @All The Chickens. Excuse me while I go and weep for the rest of the day. You are shattering my "it's okay, it will be okay, everything is fine" mantra. 
    MurderbearTravisKate23alina_mac
  • Who is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne? No one. There is no such thing as the rightful heir to an inherently unjust source of power.
    It was unjust when the Targaryens held it because it was by force of dragon. When Robert had it, it seemed like it was more of a commonly accepted rule by the other lords (except Dorne and the Greyjoys). There was still some threat of force, but I would say Robert's rule was just. Gendry should be the rightful heir, at this point. I thought Dany was gonna have him castrated.

    Also, F Renly. His claim never made any sense. He should have supported Stannis. 
    alina_mac
  • If you woke up this morning with the strong desire to hear Jorah, the Hound, Tormund, and Berrick hanging out, singing a great Tom Waits tune, the universe was kind to you today.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkgYb-BFOnE&fbclid=IwAR0LizuZ1vtUTukLXcqj1hXxepEqqXH9O5uVfNVcllJNbyc22SutD1YWkc0
    mostlywrightMurderbearalina_macalexander.klassenSanguinePenguin
  • mjmullady said:
    Apologies if this was already pondered. But clearly they were waiting for a Dany at dragonstone So clearly either they knew she was coming or just were lucky and waited. 
    My question is, who is the leak? His was before Varys began talking treason so is there someone else or will we end up never knowing?
    The leak is the plot.
    TravisKate23alina_macElisaken haleSchluppSanguinePenguinpoorfool
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Jesus. What if the "good guys" win and Jon and Dany are somehow both killed. Would her newly legitimized Gendry Baratheon take the throne?
    TravisElisaSanguinePenguin
  • Jesus. What if the "good guys" win and Jon and Dany are somehow both killed. Would her newly legitimized Gendry Baratheon take the throne?
    Can you be legitimized by someone who has a claim but isn't actually a ruler?

    Plus what she did was give Gendry a promicary note, only redeemable if she sits on the Iron Throne
    Travisalina_macSanguinePenguingjames80
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    edited May 6
    To have something iconic like the dire wolves only to drop them is just weird. Have to splurge on that shit once in a while. At least GRRM has the warging going on. 

    Most valid criticism I’ve seen yet this season and this episode in particular is them not asking Bran for some information on what Cersei is doing right now. Fine with me if he says he can’t or it would backfire, but not to ask is just ludicrous. 

    I hoped we’d find out Bran was doing that during the Battle of Winterfell, but nah. 
    majjam0770alina_macrustywright4
  • First post here.  For what it's worth, I think this season has been awesome and I'm all into the theories, I'm a book-reader and show watcher, and I just see them as distinct and both equally awesome.

    Thoroughly enjoyed this episode, was vintage thrones - action, feasts, scheming, had it all!

    Pondering it, I wonder if Tyrion and Varys will both be right.  I think Danny's dilemma is ultimately about her not heeding Oleanna Tyrrels words: 'be a dragon'.  She's tried playing it the way she should (Tyrion's advice isn't wrong) but it's not her.  She's a dragon. Albeit a merciful one. She's denied part of herself - the part that will burn people up and in so doing has also repressed the part where she's the breaker of chains and a sort of transcendent figure almost above politics.  The Weterosi lords are not her naturally audience right? They want her to be a part of their system and she's tried that, but her whole method was to transcend the systems in Essos and to (sometimes violently) challenge the status quo, which made her beloved by the masses.  Problem here is that she's attempting to appeal to the elites, which again, makes sense for a normal leader in Westeros, but that's not her.

    All that said, she needs to flame on, and burn up a bunch of people so she can conversely then show mercy to some of those same people. This is her dynamic. Yin and yang! 

    Back to Tyrion and Varys, I think Tyrion has the right of it but can't articulate it (basically what I just said) to Varys properly.  Varys for his part only see's the mad side, the danger, the tyrant because he's conditioned to Westerosi tyrants who use or abuse the system to their own advantage, not seeing how Danny could move beyond all of that. And of course he's tainted by experience with Joff and her pops, the Mad King.

    So, I think Varys will be toast. I think he's gonna wait till Danny shows her true colors (well half of them), wait till she burns up a lot shit, declare this his proof and moment to strike, only to find (too late) that she's pulled short of her own accord - she's not a monster! - and that he was only half right, but his worst fears were a product of years of well earned paranoia (this will be his tragedy - too clever for his own good).  Tyrion's gonna reluctantly reveal his schemes and old Varys will join Melisandre once more for a nice long chat around the fire!


    mostlywrightKate23ElisaBenDoctor_NickSanguinePenguingjames80
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    lol D&D were in the episode last night during the celebration scene:


    Marcialina_macAnominalrkcrawfSanguinePenguinbudesigns
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited May 6
    CapeGabe said:
    Jesus. What if the "good guys" win and Jon and Dany are somehow both killed. Would her newly legitimized Gendry Baratheon take the throne?
    Can you be legitimized by someone who has a claim but isn't actually a ruler?

    Plus what she did was give Gendry a promicary note, only redeemable if she sits on the Iron Throne
    Still, I bet someone with a futures bet ticket got really excited going down that mental hole last night. I mean, what must the odds be on that pick? It's outside "in play" right now (kind of like a 10 cede that wins a couple NCAA tourney games and you start scratching your chin at the prospect of something happening).
    CapeGabe
  • walktheskywalkthesky New York
    edited May 6
    gjulleen said:
    Well. Guess I’m an idiot. 

    I liked the party at winterfell, I think we needed to let that breathe.

    Jon leaving Ghost behind was him abandoning his Stark side.

    He confided his secret to the daughter of Eddard Stark, the man who held that secret for most of his life. He held it although it caused him immense pain. She betrayed that secret within a day. 

    Cersei lying to Euron. 

    Misandei giving her blessing to burn the city. 

    If all you're showing up for is a bloodbath, I guess I understand you’re  justified in being being “bankrupt.”  But Jaime has just agreed to abandon his soul.  Misandei is Dany’s oldest friend. She’s dead. 

    A dragon died.

    What do you want? 
    Thank you, I’m invested and laughing at the thought of bankruptcy.  Just enjoy it cuz it’s almost over!
    SanguinePenguin
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    So does King's Landing have secret trampolines like Winterfell? Asking for a recently widowed eunuch.
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    TFW you fall asleep with Show Jaime...and wake up with Book Jaime.
    chriskmostlywrightCapeGabealina_macElisaYoungelpaso
  • Tom said:
    Show  Cersei seems to be a pretty good leader these days. The city running well, its people value her protection & sound military decisions.

    Not really sure how show Jaime 'redeems' himself by killing his lover / sister / unborn child. Hope the Lannister trio team up. 
    She blew up the sept killing hundreds?  
    mostlywrightCapeGabeMurderbearTravisElisaYoungelpasoSanguinePenguin
Sign In or Register to comment.