805 - The Bells

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Comments

  • Demerol said:
    I loved the episode. I agree the Euron bit was a bit too tidy, but they had to end him somehow and he did get blown off the ship. As for Jaime and Cersei, don't ever buy into a GRRM prophecy! Particularly in the books, it's how he subverts his stories - he makes 75% of the prophecy come true only to hoodwink you at the end. Rather, Jaime did what he always wanted - die with Cersei in his arms. Fitting.
    Dany did exactly what I thought she would do - destroy King's Landing. It is basically her Harrenhall. For her whole life she was told that the people of Westeros would love her, they would rally to her, and they would raise her banners when they saw her dragons. Instead, they showed nothing but distrust and anger. Even fighting the Army of the Dead did not give her any bonus points with those of Westeros (except improved reputation among the North). She spends her entire character arc looking for acceptance and reverence. When she feels betrayed or mocked, she responds with violence. Astapur, Vaes Dothrak, Mereen, the Tarleys. She is essentially alone (particularly after Jon rebukes her). Unlike Essos where abolishing slavery gets you immediate devotion from the people, Westeros doesn't have a simple solution. Most people don't care who is on the throne. So she does what Aegon did 300 years earlier -> She demands people bend the knee or she destroys them. Her real throne is now Dragonstone if she ever makes it out of the finale (unlikely IMO). Ironically, unlike Aegon, she has Dorne backing her.
    I'd be willing to bet that Varys got some letters out before he was killed.  I would assume one of those letters would have been to Dorne.  Also if they hear the real "truth" about what happened in Kings Landing I don't think the Dornish will back her.
    I raised this question in another thread but is it realistic to assume the Dornish or anybody else would back Jon at this point, even if they believe the lineage claim?  Any argument against Dany ruling now applies to Jon by association.  He's just another Targaryean who helped massacre a city.
    NimeriaLurks
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Boss Logic did this. Pretty awesome.


    "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and her name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with her." 


    Murderbearvisi0nmjmulladySanguinePenguinOliviaDDaveyMac
  • cdrive said:
    Can we start a shoulda list?  Seems like many were upset because they had a big bag of built up, pre-conceived shoulda's that they brought in with them when they watched the episode.

    So "Volanqar" means "younger sibling" right? And Dany T was the younger sister of Rhaegar and Viserys right? And Dany T buried Cersei in her Red Keep by blowing up the whole motherfucker right?  Seems to me the Valonqar Prophecy was not violated but fulfilled.  There were many that thought it shoulda been Jaime or shoulda been Tyrion, or with the gender-neutral Valyrian is coulda and shoulda been Arya.   

    I don't really care about the prophecy, I just think it would be more interesting for Jaime. It seemed like they were showing him changing as a character, but he basically just went on a "lost weekend" to ball Brienne.
    GredalBeerustywright4
  • AaronAaron Newton, MA
    I really wish people would stop claiming that the show runners just wanted to have it over with.  How do we know what was in their heads?  All evidence is that they and the cast and crew put an astonishing amount of energy and time and effort into creating this show.  All we can really say is whether it worked for us or didn't, and why.
    chriskgjames80DemerolFalconSanguinePenguinCeciliaMrkcrawfthepastryarchy
  • I just heard on rawrist that Varis was trying to poison Dany at the beginning with the little girl but she wasn't eating. I didn't make that connection, at least Varis did more than just write letters like Ned Stark.
    visi0nMurderbearavcpltelephoneofmadnessken haleSanguinePenguinrkcrawf
  • YeSchlupp said:
    I just heard on rawrist that Varis was trying to poison Dany at the beginning with the little girl but she wasn't eating. I didn't make that connection, at least Varis did more than just write letters like Ned Stark.
    Yeah I picked up on that when he told the girl to get back to the kitchen after she reported Dany wasn’t eating. That’s a hell of a move to try and poison her
  • walktheskywalkthesky New York
    Aaron said:
    I really wish people would stop claiming that the show runners just wanted to have it over with.  How do we know what was in their heads?  All evidence is that they and the cast and crew put an astonishing amount of energy and time and effort into creating this show.  All we can really say is whether it worked for us or didn't, and why.
    Thank you, it’s a stretch to say the least.  Pure Reddit speculation and fan theory.
    SanguinePenguin
  • I’m back off the fan bankruptcy train. I want to see how they land this plane 
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    I have to say - I do not and never have understood the investment in the Cleganebowl on the part of the fans or the Hound. The Mountain is essentially dead and has been for years. There's no emotional stakes in that fight at all. If the Mountain wins a character I like is dead. If the Hound wins, this weirdo monster is dead. Okay. If it happened organically in the course of a normal battle, then fine. But to seek his undead brother out? The Hound knew next to nothing about him after he decided to leave KL the first time. So why did he care to go back again and finish the job. 

    Also agree that Arya deciding to nope out on Cersei didn't make much sense, but I did like what they did with her afterwards and I like that she's set her sights on Dany. And less as revenge, but more just because Dany's a danger to everyone now. 

    Did she ever get directly hit by the flames? I recall her running behind a wall and getting the tail end of one of the bursts. I didn't think anything more of it. Ditto with Euron. My recollection is that he kind of jumps toward the back and offscreen as the front end of the boat is engulfed.
    tom_g
  • mjmullady said:
    YeSchlupp said:
    I just heard on rawrist that Varis was trying to poison Dany at the beginning with the little girl but she wasn't eating. I didn't make that connection, at least Varis did more than just write letters like Ned Stark.
    Yeah I picked up on that when he told the girl to get back to the kitchen after she reported Dany wasn’t eating. That’s a hell of a move to try and poison her
    The Targaryans are supposed to be less susceptible to heat and poison it would have been great if Dany got sick because of it without dying and than half ill needs to show strength and loses it. Maybe even falls from her dragon who rampages through kings landing afterwards.
    mjmullady
  • edited May 2019
    Sites such as reddit and IMDb, and message boards are not a good benchmark  for  an “average” fan.  These sites are made for passionate diehards.   It’s A fan base bubble  made up of circlejerks, book snobs, nit pickers, and apologists all fighting each other for internet points.

    Twitter and Facebook is a much more accurate reflection of an average watcher.  People who like GOT but don’t live and breath by whether it fits every single book lore.   If  you search for game of thrones on these sites, for most of the season, you will see that vast majority love it, or the least had great fun with it.  Its entertaining to most, and they loved the spectacle of it all.  This episode was polarizing though, because of the heel turn.




    FalconSanguinePenguinmjmulladyCeciliaM
  • I would be very upset if GoT didn't piss off half the fans with it's finale.
    MurderbearFlukesAww_PHuuCkken haleCeciliaM
  • edited May 2019
    You can say Dany was the younger sibling and it was also the younger brother's idea (Tyrion) for Jamie and Cersei to go down there in the first place.  So... sure, it sort of works.  However, the prophecies on the show tend to be a little blunt.  Maggie also said her children would die and a more beautiful queen would take over.  You don't have to side-eye those points, twist the words, or think of metaphorical deaths and more beautiful queens -- they literally happened.  The way Cersei died last night was a wishy-washy D&D special, which has become more prevalent since they ran out of source material.

    Since there's a debate going about what the majority of people think, do you think the majority of people would choose death by rubble or death by Jamie?
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    "And then a bunch of rocks fell on her and she died. The end." - Leaked From A Song of Spring
    FlukesKS123telephoneofmadnessCapeGabeblacksunrise7rustywright4SanguinePenguinken haleCeciliaM
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    edited May 2019
    So, all those episodes we had in the East showing Dany learning to be a just, fair, practical and compassionate ruler? And learning from her mistakes when she gave in to her harshest impulses? Yeah...that was time well spent.

    So if Jon WASN'T Egg Gun Cardamom or whoever, then there's be no recourse whatsoever to this? They really need a parliamentary system with a no-confidence vote option.
    rustywright4Doctor_Nick
  • Aaron said:
    I really wish people would stop claiming that the show runners just wanted to have it over with.  How do we know what was in their heads?  All evidence is that they and the cast and crew put an astonishing amount of energy and time and effort into creating this show.  All we can really say is whether it worked for us or didn't, and why.
    Umm, it's not speculation. They've come out and said the series will needo  73 hours. I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that a few more GOT episodes wouldn't have hurt anyone. 

    https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18537794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing

    Thrones’ hurry to remove itself from our screens is that almost no one was rooting for a rapid resolution. Viewers don’t want it to end. The media doesn’t want it to end. HBO doesn’t want it to end. Only the showrunners are ready to wrap things up. In an interviewpublished before the final premiere, D&D made it clear that they were the ones insisting on stopping at eight seasons and limiting the last two to a total of 13 episodes. “[HBO] said, ‘We’ll give you the resources to make this what it needs to be,’” Weiss said. Benioff added, “HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season.” But the showrunners refused. “We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that,” Benioff continued. “As much as they wanted more, they understood that this is where the story ends
    telephoneofmadnessrustywright4ken hale
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Are people going to call bullshit if Cersei and Jaime aren't actually dead? If I were a betting man, I'd say they are toast. (I didn't assert any fan bankruptcy so I'm still theorizing ha!) But what if next week we come back and they are trapped under the rubble and there is no way out and Cersei starts blaming Jaime for everything because nothing is her fault and then finally with no way out and maybe even approaching Unsullied soldiers, Jaime chokes the life out of his sister's neck to save her from being captured. Hell, he could even play it off like it was his plan all along. But even if all that happens, I wouldn't think Jaime is surviving much longer.
    telephoneofmadnessrkcrawf
  • AjasAjas Seattle, WA
    edited May 2019
    Hey did the Gold Company make it back to Kings Landing? 

    That was an abbreviated ending of that plot line...

    Lannisters mines ran dry-->
    Tywin runs up huge debts-->
    Cersei invades Highgarden to steal their gold-->
    gold barely makes it back to KL before dragons attack-->
    Cersei pays off the banker to bring the GC to KL
    Rinsed in 3 seconds, having done nothing 
    ken hale
  • Ajas said:
    Hey did the Gold Company make it back to Kings Landing? 

    That was an abbreviated ending of that plot line...

    Lannisters mines ran dry-->
    Tywin runs up huge debts-->
    Cersei invades Highgarden to steal their gold-->
    gold barely makes it back to KL before dragons attack-->
    Cersei pays off the banker to bring the GC to KL
    Rinsed in 3 seconds, having done nothing 
    They showed up. They should get a participation trophy.

    Oh wait they're all dead.
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    So, all those episodes we had in the East showing Dany learning to be a just, fair, practical and compassionate ruler? And learning from her mistakes when she gave in to her harshest impulses? Yeah...that was time well spent.
    I never once thought they showed her as a good ruler. She never had enough time to rule over a place before she bounced to another city, and then she got captured by the Dothraki.

    They really only showed her as a great conquer, which let's be honest, she had to lean a lot on her magic dragons for that. The dragons and her ruthlessness in the art of deal making got her the Unsullied army, and from there it was like a hot knife through butter in conquering cities. I guess she did marry Hizdar to show that she could be practical, but I don't know that that was enough for me. And she only proposed a political marriage to Hizdar a few scene after burning his (presumed innocent) friend alive in order to play "Good Cop - Bad Dragon".

    It sucks that she reverted back to her harshest impulses when everything went to shit and she lost almost everything she loved or cared about, but I never thought that they had done a good job of telling a story where we see that she is a great ruler.
    SanguinePenguin
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA

    "We are not so different, you and I. We are the same."

    "We are not the same. I'm a Targaryen. You're a sick asshole."

    "What wouldn't a mother do for her children?"

    "You put thousands of children in danger."

    "Perhaps, but if I did, then you are the danger I put them in."

    "The things we do for love, eh, Citizen Lannister?"

    - A Woulda Of Shoulda Couldas

  • edited May 2019
    I came out of this episode feeling pretty positive. I was amazed by the spectacle, this was probably both the most brutal and visually stunning episode of television I have ever seen. Some plot points didn't quite make sense to me, but overall pretty good episode. I thought "the guys are gonna love this one! Clegane bowl! Cercei is dead! And Jim is all in for the Mad Queen Arch!" Then I listened to the Instant Talk.... Jim immediatly declares it the "worst episode of game of thrones EVER" and Aaron is talking about sueing the double d's. I look at the "Inside The Episode" feature on Youtube and it has over 54 thousand dislikes. Am I losing my good taste in television?? What is happening here???? 
    ken hale
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA

    It sucks that she reverted back to her harshest impulses when everything went to shit and she lost almost everything she loved or cared about, but I never thought that they had done a good job of telling a story where we see that she is a great ruler.

    I didn't say she was a great ruler, but she had a lot of storylines that highlighted the moral conflicts of ruling. It makes sense for her to get up to Darkside Dany, but it would have been more satisfying...even if she goes full Dark Side...for her to have seem to have learned SOMETHING from all those experiences that we all had to sit through for some gods damned reason.
  • If Dany was rage-crying as she burned up everything, I would have believed it better
    rustywright4ken hale
  • kuman07kuman07 Kansas City
    The finale episode is going to reveal the last episode was all a dream sequence Dany had and then the real battle will begin. The good guys win, no innocents are harmed. Cersei gives up the throne and lives out her days on a secluded island with Jamie and their child. Varys and Tyrion crack dwarf and Eunuch jokes until they are old and gray. Jon and Dany marry and rule Westeros together in peace and harmony. The End.
    ken haleCeciliaM
  • Man i love this season, it has veered off the course but look at the Vietnam and napalm, Brother vs Brother combat, brother vs brother good bye, Bran varging a horse for arya. Lena headley with facial expressions, Qyburn smashed like a water melon, high comedy. Golden company getting wrecked. Amelia Clarke going crazy, Jon snow I know nothing. Varys and Tyrion getting wrecked since season 2 ( My boys)

    And also I can taste those fan tears
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Well, Robert Baratheon was vindicated at least.
    johnnytruantCapeGabetelephoneofmadnessken haleBrandonTheBardCeciliaMDoctor_NickUnderwoodasmallcat
  • Well, Robert Baratheon was vindicated at least.
    Thanks Ned.
    Natter CastCapeGabeDoctor_Nick
  • Hopefully they lean into her madness next episode. She can be running around yelling at piles of ashes to BEND THE KNEE!!
    telephoneofmadnessSanguinePenguinken hale
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