806 - The Iron Throne

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  • Man, discussing this show has just gotten exhausting. I'm glad it's over, for all our sakes. 
    BroRad33ken halehisdudeness915Falcongjames80
  • Did Davos kinda forget that he has a wife?
    majjam0770BroRad33ken haletelephoneofmadnessvisi0nBloodyTacoCeciliaMKS123Schluppgjames80
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    I wonder how popular this show would be if it started off with the quality of these last 2 or 3 seasons....
    ken haletelephoneofmadnessBloodyTacoblacksunrise7
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    Slept on it and it didn’t age well.
    The white walkers and the Night King?
    Jamie’s redemption arc?
    Bran’s Three Eyed Raven arc?
    Arya’s Faceless Man arc?
    John’s arc with R+L=J and journey to being an excellent reluctant leader?
    The Prince Who Was Promised and all of the resurrections and other Lord of the Light magic?

    Lots of stuff here with no satisfying payoff.
    I buy Danny the Mad Queen, but they didn’t show enough of that journey to make it work. I don’t really buy Arya killing the Night King. I don’t buy Bran on the throne unless maybe if Jon is dead. Brienne’s arc was good except the one night stand. Sansa’s Arc was good except allowing the North independence.

    Grey Worm would have killed Jon on the spot after he murdered the queen. Danny would have broiled Tyrion for treason, not imprisoned him. Knight’s watch stuff is dumb, should have just exiled him out of the 6+1 Kingdoms and he goes north to join the free folk if that’s the play. Arya going for a boat ride is dumb. The succession is dumb: it will just be another war and/or whomever has the biggest army, and/or a bunch of kingdoms noping-out of the arrangement based on the precedent of Sansa.

    George may or may not end it the same way (he will probably never end it at all I know), but if he does many of these arcs will pay off first.
    avcplGiovanniBloodyTacoblacksunrise7
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    That may be why he will never be able to end it. 

    LordBy said:

    George may or may not end it the same way (he will probably never end it at all I know), but if he does many of these arcs will pay off first.

  • It’s interesting that all the Starks are separate now. The pack is supposed to stay together right?  Oh well. Minor gripe in the context of things. 

    I think it it is also interesting that the Starks come out of all of this looking good. If you think that history is written by the victors than maybe “song of ice and fire” is a bit biased. 

    I would totally like a spin-off series (or one time episode or movie) showing where these characters are in 10 yrs. if it is done with same quality as first 4 seasons anyways. 
  • As the day goes on, I'm just feeling extremely bummed out.  And I'm having a hard time separating my feelings about the show ending from the conclusion of the story.  I'm satisfied with Jon killing Dany and going north and I don't really know what I would have preferred to happen with the rest of it. 

    Weeks ago, I excitedly made plans to go to Game of Thrones trivia tonight.  Now I just feel like going home and sitting in a dark room.
    ken hale
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    It’s interesting that all the Starks are separate now. The pack is supposed to stay together right?  Oh well. Minor gripe in the context of things. 

    I think it it is also interesting that the Starks come out of all of this looking good. If you think that history is written by the victors than maybe “song of ice and fire” is a bit biased. 

    I would totally like a spin-off series (or one time episode or movie) showing where these characters are in 10 yrs. if it is done with same quality as first 4 seasons anyways. 
    Fitting they pointed it out with the title a couple of episodes ago with "The Last of The Starks." Bran will presumably the only Stark King. Sansa will likely marry someone and have a child of course but seems fair to assume that child will not be called Stark. Arya probably never settles down and has any children. Jon is half a Stark but I'm sure he's sticking with the name Jon Snow but can't father any children in the NW anyway.
    Aww_PHuuCk
  • bbord said:
    JaimieT said:
    Ha, ironically the instant cast this week is so nice I can't listen to it.
    They just seemed kinda sad to me. Like resigned to give it the few props it deserved but overall pretty disappointed. 
    Very much this. I have a lot of problems w this episode, but after shitting on the show for the last few weeks I can’t even muster a wet fart for this finale. It was there, it was utterly banal, it was occasionally stupid af, but it wasn’t offensive because I’d already given up hope. 

    I may be wrong, but that’s the tone I picked up on from the instant take, as well. 
    avcpltelephoneofmadnessBroRad33bbordScottTenormanBloodyTacoJaimieTSchluppblacksunrise7
  • OldGriswoldOldGriswold Brooklyn
    Disappointed that Arya didn't use any faces during Season 8
    You know what would have been really cool?  Her Sam Beckett-ing - looking like herself to us and then we see other characters perspectives and she looks like a different person.

    Arya stepped into a planetos-face-accelerator... and vanished!
    visi0n
  • OldGriswoldOldGriswold Brooklyn
    visi0n said:
    After sleeping on it, even with my fan Bankruptcy paperwork in hand, I think I kind of hated this and everything since the Battle of Winterfell.

    My top four and a half chief annoyances in final resolution, in no particular order:

    "Queen in the Norf!"
    This season really pushed the Northern Independence thing down our throats and it never really resonated with me.  This relegated Sansa to being a Parrot, this season.  SQUACK: Free the norf! SQUACK   I wish they would have used Sansa more.

    Bran, the 2wheeler Asperger King
    Bran did nothing but sit in a chair and say cryptic shit all season, lets make him King. Bran himself has said he mostly lives in the past now.  Larger picture, what they did with the 3I'd Raven annoyed me.  What, exactly is the point of a living-memory of man if it isn't consumable by mankind and is encapsulated behind Bran's blank stare at all times? So much missed opportunity and cold flops from Bran's part of the story.

    Unsullied, always Unsullied
    The guys mentioned they were surprised the Unsullied didn't have more agency on the KingsMoot.   I actually think they gave Grey Worm too much agency in the final disposition of the realm, the Lords were making concessions with more concern for Grey Worm's appeasement than tenable positions for the Realm.  His physical positioning in opposition to the rest, accentuated the power of the remaining army at his command more than his contribution to a conversation about justice.

    Tyrion as Viagra for John's Justice Boner
    Kit did a good job of selling John's disapproval of the massacre leading up to and including and Dany's third reich speech to the mustered soldiery.   I don't think Tyron would have to sell John so hard that she needed to be stopped and that Winterfell would be a future target.  Dany already said as much. You know nothing, John Snow.

    Dragonstone Elections, 2020
    The whole: "From now on, a group of representative oligarchs meet here to vote on a new king" - yeah, that's historically worked out well for humanity. :|

    To not be a full Johnny Raincloud - 

    My top three favorites from this season, in no particular order.

    "Queen in the Norf!"
    Whoever worked on Sansa Stark's costume design deserves an award.   The color palette, texture and lines - all accentuated by that chain of office thing?  Well done!  It made her look formidable.

    Photography
    There are some phenomenal visuals in this Season.  Drogon coming out of the mists, the Unsullied Formations, Dragons above the clouds during the BoW, Dany / Drogon wings composition.   The haunted appearance of KL post-attack as juxtaposed to the seas-side beauty of the gardens of KL accentuated in earlier seasons.   I look forward to re-watching it on a 4k HDR source.   Might be worth watching in high-contrast B&W, actually. 
    (Raiders of the Lost Ark, also awesome in HDR High Contrast B&W, btw)

    CleganeBowl
    The CleganeBowl was pretty epic, hard for to find anything wrong with it.  I wouldn't have minded seeing The Hound survive it but it was a nice close to his story and presented well on-screen.

    Bonus positive:  Hey, Tyrion lived.   So, there's that.

    just my two cents, I'm happy for those of you that liked or loved it.   
    This season was visually (and costume) beautiful, no doubt about that. Probably the most eye candy I've ever seen honestly. My brain was offended but my eyes were having multiple orgasms so.. *shrug*
    Giovanniavcplvisi0n
  • CapeGabe said:
    I agree with the boys in the Instant Talk, the problem wasn't the dots, it was connecting the dots.

    In the end the biggest gripe about this and last season is they should have hired more competent writers and had a writers room where things could have been fleshed out properly. That and having normal length seasons would have a chance to be one of the best endings in TV history instead of being mediocre which I thought it was.

    Perfectly said. Great summary of the problems, and what could have been. 
  • mtron32mtron32 San Diego
    I loved the finale though I haven’t really thought the show high quality for a while now.  I like how all the characters ended up in the finale and that most of the “fan theories” meant fuck all.  It feels like the Lost finale where none of the mythology was resolved and the fans pouted.  
    Graffin_Dirtybloodrkcrawf
  • Dee said:
    I thought the finale was good. Am I a poor judge of quality?
    I thought it was good too. Maybe we are just both trash? 
    Edit: Just saw @CeciliaM is joining us as well. Well that 4 of us then.  Hey at least we can be trash together ;)
    It looks like the majority of people in this thread liked it, or at least enjoyed it more than they disliked some parts. I guess a simple thumbs up or thumbs down would help.
    I agree that a significant majority of the opinion here is positive, I thought it was comical to just keep running with it.  I don't feel like I'm in the minority by saying I fully enjoyed the way the show ended.  It certainly could have used a full 10 episode season but I'm not disappointed in the ending. 
    rkcrawf
  • So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    CapeGabetelephoneofmadnessadampaszbbordGiovannivisi0nDummyBloodyTacoblacksunrise7Travisand 1 other.
  • Whether you liked Season 8, or the finale or not.... Do you think D&D were sticking it to GRRM with the scene where Sam produces the book (presumably the entire series of) A Song of Ice and Fire?  I couldn't help but laugh that the Maesters wrote the entire series within a few weeks, when GRRM has not even been able to finish 6 books in almost 20 years. LOL.  Why include this scene? It just seemed so ironic. 
    CeciliaM
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    Clean? You sure about that?





    asmallcatMurderbearrkcrawf
  • ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    I guess it was just a Dothraki horse that wandered off.  :|

    It was a little jarring that episode 6 showed her still wandering around the carnage on foot. After episode 5, I thought she'd just get the heck out of dodge. But I guess she decided to stick around and try to help Jon.
  • OldGriswoldOldGriswold Brooklyn
    ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    Clean? You sure about that?





    Head-canon
    Graffin_Dirtybloodrkcrawf
  • ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    Clean? You sure about that?





    Head-canon
    Bran warged into Ken Hale's head and made him forget the horse was dirty. 

    Clean Horse
    Cean Hose
    Cen Hose
    Ken Hole
    Ken Hale. 
    visi0nMurderbearGiovannigguenotcdriveBloodyTacoUnderwoodhisdudeness915CapeGabeCeciliaMand 5 others.
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Hunkulese said:
    asmallcat said:
    To everyone asking what the point of the night's watch is - we just had literally 7 seasons of everyone thinking the night's watch was pointless, and all got shown how wrong and short-sighted that was. An existential threat that came very close to destroying humanity just came from beyond the wall, and no one really knows what's up there except maybe some wildlings, and they don't talk to lords much. I'm pretty sure most people, especially those who participated in the long night, would think it was a pretty fucking good idea to still have a night's watch jusssst in case there's more shit up there. 
    There are currently zero members of the Night's Watch besides Jon.
    Didn't two black cloaks escort him from Kings Landing to The Wall?

    Plus Ghost, he's a member.  If Jon is once again Lord Commander, I name Ghost First Ranger!

    He even has a dark patch of fur representing his black cloak.
    Murderbeargjames80
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 20
    "Ken kind of forgot that the horse was covered in dirt and blood"

    -David Benioff
    majjam0770UnderwoodGraffin_DirtybloodCapeGabeCeciliaMrkcrawfOldGriswoldDaveyMacgjames80budesigns
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Hunkulese said:
    LordBy said:
    It was a decent tie-up from a flawed setup.


    Bran as King? Unearned entirely. WTF has Bran been doing since the holding of the door? Was he manipulating everything for his ascension? That’s dark. Was he manipulating everything for the good of the realm? He did a piss poor job then. And who is his successor? That’s always the biggest issue with a consensus ruler, how do you handle the succession? Not even mentioned in passing.
    They clearly covered that there will not be a successor like there has been in the past, the lords and ladies of their keeps will essentially elect a new ruler.  It was brought up specifically that he had no way to produce a successor and then Tyrion went into his talks about how this is breaking the wheel.
    They pretty much decided that they have until Bran dies until the next major war.
    Judging from Bloodraven, he's got what, about a century and change left?
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Also, someone blew the horn as they approached. There is at least ONE other guy in there.

    If people want Jon to live with the Wildlings I think it's fine but I don't understand why this is so hard for some to swallow. I guess being a former Cincinnati Reds fan I'm just used to hearing "this is a rebuilding year." So i get it. Yes, there aren't many left. Yes they have a giant hole in the Wall that they will presumably build some kind of fence or barrier around. It doesn't look good for them right now so the 1,000th Lord Commander has a lot of work to do!
    rkcrawf
  • That scene where Dany is giving her rally cry to her troops with Drogon on the side roaring was awesomely beautiful. Also, Dany never got to sit on the throne, just touched it before Jon interrupted.
  • Falcon said:
    mwspiak said:
    Wow people hated it. I guess that’s to be expected. It’s hard watching something end when you have theories and expectations left unanswered. I will say this. If that was the ending George had in mind....I think it won’t be by the end of the day...well played old man, well played.
    It just makes total sense, but when all people do is sit around and make up theories they all get disappointed. 
    I don't think anybody thinks it's bad because their pet theory didn't come true. They think it's bad because it was bad, a lot of the character arcs and motivations didn't make much sense. 

    Dany - goes from hero to Hitler in two episodes over an under-developed love story with her nephew. Sure, it was foreshadowed a bit, but they clearly didn't develop it nearly enough. Did she literally just morph into a sociopath?
    Jon - is a glorified extra for 5 episodes and then gets punished for saving the kingdom and possibly the world by being sent to a defunct organization. Why did they play up his lineage so much? At least we got Ghost?
    Bran - crippled kid who stares at everybody then becomes king, makes R+L+J a huge deal forrrrrrr? Did he know Dany would turn into Hitler and say nothing? Wouldn't that make him kind of a huge d-bag? How is he qualified for any of this?
    Arya - completely shifts from face swapping vengeance machine to Christopher Columbus. Was Walder Frey really the only point of her face changing ability? 
    Tyrion - couldn't critically think his way out of a tube-sock since he killed Tywin.  
    Jamie - robs that V-card then reverts back to season 1 Jamie with one hand. 
    Cersei - chills in a tower then a brick hits her in the head. 
    Sansa - her storyline was fine, not great, but fine. 

    Those are common complaints, not that Bran wasn't the NK or something like that. Every one of the character's arcs above besides Sansa made little sense to me. Characters didn't act like they had been demonstrated to act for the last 10 years, it seems like they just had to make the bullet points work by jamming nonsensical writing through this last season so they can get on to Star Wars. 
    DummyGiovanniblacksunrise7
  • chriskchrisk Indianapolis
    The horse seemed kind of significant at the time,  but looking at it now i think it's just a nice quiet moment and if you want you can apply other meaning to it - Lord of Light sent it, Bran warged into it, etc..

    Reminded me a little of this famous scene in The River where a deer runs into a steel mill, and the workers kind of stare at it before chasing it out to safety. 
    JNoJo
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 20
    gguenot said:
    That scene where Dany is giving her rally cry to her troops with Drogon on the side roaring was awesomely beautiful. Also, Dany never got to sit on the throne, just touched it before Jon interrupted.
    Just like in  her vision in the House of the Undying. As soon as she reaches to touch the iron throne in her vision, she is distracted by something, and exits the Red Keep into the snow where she finds Drogo and her infant son in the afterlife.

    I like to think the symetry there is telling us that since everything else happened the same way in her vision, her real life distraction from the throne and death means that she is now in the afterlife with her first love and her son like in her vision.
    MurderbearDoctor_Nickgguenotrkcrawf
  • ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    Clean? You sure about that?





    Wow. That’s a great point. Invalidates my question. Horse’s presence = well-explained, logical, and good use of screen time. 
    bbordOldGriswold
  • ken hale said:
    ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    Clean? You sure about that?





    Wow. That’s a great point. Invalidates my question. Horse’s presence = well-explained, logical, and good use of screen time. 
    Awww, don't be salty. We all need to learn to laugh at ourselves. 
    Graffin_Dirtyblood
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