806 - The Iron Throne

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  • That was as satisfying as I could have expected given how botched the season has been. Everything worked out a bit too neat and fan-servicy, but that was to be expected when they kept everyone alive after 803. Overall, it seems like GRRM gave them some fantastic story beats and they just didn't feel like writing any connective tissue, so they rushed from one beat to the other without worrying about logic or character development between them.
    majjam0770Giovanni
  • edited May 21
    ken hale said:
    So, uhh, what was with that horse last week?

    Pale horse of death? Nah
    Arya’s dead? Nah
    Bran warged it? Nah
    Just an inexplicably clean-ass horse hanging out in an apocalypse, never to be seen again? Nailed it.
    I think it's a nod to book readers, where do horses go? Or Dothraki for that matter.
    In some shows the protagonist at the end just gives up on his girlfriend, family and goes north to become a lumberjack. Dexter anyone?
    I really would like to see another episode, where Arya dies when her ship sinks, the unsullied die of butterfly desease
    https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Butterfly_fever, and Dany gets resurrected by some red dragon priestess.
    Oh, if anyone wonders, Greyworm kind of forgot about the Butterfly fever.

    By the way, wouldn't this be the ideal opportunity to invade Westeros after restoring slavery to Essos while they are severly weakened? They lost almost half their forces and population and the Dothraki are already there and warmed up.
    ken hale
  • pavlovsbellpavlovsbell Brooklyn, NY
    ken hale said:
    chrisk said:
    ken hale said:
    Wow. That’s a great point. Invalidates my question. Horse’s presence = well-explained, logical, and good use of screen time. 
    I think stuff like that is a good use of screen time, and I wish people allowed for more stuff that didn't always have an expressed reason for being. 

    I don't understand the "use of screen time" argument this season. Isn't the issue that there wasn't more screen time? Or is there really a problem spending time on stuff like this? Screen time isn't a finite resource. They could have cut that Arya scene almost completely and had a shorter episode. They could have added the stuff people want on top of it and had a longer episode. Or had more of them. 
    My position is that they’ve squandered quite a lot of the limited screen time that they’ve had this season. The meaningless horse is just a specific example, but there’s been quite a few scenes where we’re silently cutting between faces or montaging scenes in a way that isn’t necessary to underscore what’s meant to be conveyed in the scene. It’s a matter of perception. 
    I did not take this horse to be meaningless or wasteful. 

    1. After the relentless Children of Menesque chaos, and the particular gruesome closeup of Nora and her daughter holding each other (like Jaime and Cersei), Arya cries for them like Tyrion cried for his siblings.

    2. Arya rode to Kings Landing on a dark horse with dark intentions. She did not expect to survive it. Like Arya, the horse is covered with ash and blood, but they find each other. She rides out of Kings Landing on a white horse to the theme of "Home," the music that played when Arya returned to Winterfell in S7. I took that as hopeful -- that Arya managed to live through this horror, so Sandor's words mean even more. Stop fighting for the dead. Choose life. Is it a bit hokey? Yes. Nevertheless, I appreciated a dreamlike touch of grace in an otherwise horrifying but frustrating episode.

    3. This might just be silly, but I like the connection drawn between Arya and Lyanna, her aunt and Jon's mother. Lyanna loved horses, and she was quite the adventurer.


    DaveyMacDoctor_NickJNoJoSanguinePenguinAww_PHuuCkUnderwoodrkcrawf
  • Dee said:
    I thought the finale was good. Am I a poor judge of quality?
    I thought it was good too. Maybe we are just both trash? 
    Edit: Just saw @CeciliaM is joining us as well. Well that 4 of us then.  Hey at least we can be trash together ;)
    Room for one more?
    And me!
    Aww_PHuuCkMurderbearawookiee
  • edited May 21
    SanguinePenguin
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited May 21
    Bah Gawd, that's Euron Greyjoy's music!

    Schlupp said:



    Murderbear
  • Ist goodbye horses. And it has a puppy direwolf, so...
  • Dragons don't kill people. Bricks kill people. 
    BroRad33CeciliaM
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England

    The Stark Children:

    Robb - King in the North.

    Sansa - Queen in the Independent North.

    Jon - Slayer of the Mad Queen.

    Arya - Slayer of the Night King.

    Bran - King of the Six Kingdoms.

    Rickon - can’t zig zag.

    Doctor_NickAussieGregblue_sleeveGiovanniSanguinePenguinAww_PHuuCkMurderbearUnderwoodCapeGabehoos30and 4 others.
  • My new rule is: don't watch any show beyond season 1 unless the creators have set a limit of 3 seasons, or the entire show has already been released and reviewed. I wasted years caring about The Walking Dead. I wasted years caring about Game of Thrones. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
  • My new rule is: don't watch any show beyond season 1 unless the creators have set a limit of 3 seasons, or the entire show has already been released and reviewed. I wasted years caring about The Walking Dead. I wasted years caring about Game of Thrones. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
    Let me know what the outdoors is like now that you have a bunch of time on your hands
    MurderbearHatorianBloodyTacoCeciliaM
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Sorry this is gigantic but I thought it was funny 
    SanguinePenguinDummyScottTenormanalexander.klassenAww_PHuuCktelephoneofmadnessCeciliaM
  • So here's my final take - as if anyone cares lol.

    Overall, GoT is still one of the best TV shows of all time. It had an uneven (at best) landing, but it wasn't an ending like Lost that made me retroactively hate the entire show (I know opinions differ on that, but I watched Lost once and hated the ending so much that it made ever trying to re-watch it feel like a complete waste of time, and I have better things to do). 

    These last 2 seasons are incredibly frustrating because literally everything but the writing (apart from a few directorial and editorial problems with the Long Night) was still working fantastically. Even Emilia Clarke, whose acting I was not a big fan of, did a great job the last 2 seasons, and all the other main actors remain great. 

    Even the writing has flashes of brilliance - and I can see in my mind logical reasons for everything that happened to happen (except the wight mission north of the wall), but we the watchers have to fill it in because the show was so rushed, especially this season. I don't know if handing the show over to other show runners was remotely feasible, I don't know if actors would have stuck around much longer as I'm sure they wanted to do other projects, but there is the outline of a fantastic show in these last 2 seasons - we just didn't get to see anything but the outline. 

    At the end of the day, GoT ended up being a 9.5/10 show that ended as a 6/10, but it's a 6/10 that still has that 9.5/10 show lurking just below the surface, begging to have time to breathe. It could have been better, but as someone who read the books before I watched the show (I think I started watching the show while season 4 was airing?), it could have been a lot, lot worse. 
    SanguinePenguinawookieeBloodyTacoUnderwoodblue_sleeveAww_PHuuCkhoos30DaveyMacrkcrawf
  • gguenot said:
    My new rule is: don't watch any show beyond season 1 unless the creators have set a limit of 3 seasons, or the entire show has already been released and reviewed. I wasted years caring about The Walking Dead. I wasted years caring about Game of Thrones. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
    Let me know what the outdoors is like now that you have a bunch of time on your hands
    Don't @ me.
    gguenotCeciliaM
  • edited May 21
    My new rule is: don't watch any show beyond season 1 unless the creators have set a limit of 3 seasons, or the entire show has already been released and reviewed. I wasted years caring about The Walking Dead. I wasted years caring about Game of Thrones. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
    The expanse is really good, consistently good writing and author failsaves and everything. The creators had 3 seasons on sifi and now it's a reboot on amazon, so within your own rules you could watch 4 seasons without beeing fooled. :-)

    bbord
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 21
    Bran definitely sent Jon to the place that he knew Jon wanted to go anyways, and I don't believe for a second that Jon is coming back to serve at the useless Nights Watch prison camp after he gets to the new Freefolk camp, or that Bran ever thought that Jon would stay at Castle Black any longer than it took for Jon and Tormund to get together and leave to settle the "real North" like Tormund talked about to Jon in a previous episode.
    alexander.klassenCeciliaMTeresa from Concord
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    gguenot said:
    My new rule is: don't watch any show beyond season 1 unless the creators have set a limit of 3 seasons, or the entire show has already been released and reviewed. I wasted years caring about The Walking Dead. I wasted years caring about Game of Thrones. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
    Let me know what the outdoors is like now that you have a bunch of time on your hands
    Don't @ me.
    He didn’t @you. He quoted you. 
    SanguinePenguingguenot
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Bran definitely sent Jon to the place that he knew Jon wanted to go anyways, and I don't believe for a second that Jon is coming back to serve at the useless Nights Watch prison camp after he gets to the new Freefolk camp, or that Bran ever thought that Jon would stay at Castle Black any longer than it took for Jon and Tormund to get together and leave to settle the "real North" like Tormund talked about to Jon in a previous episode.
    Jon is way too honor bound like his Daddy to just abandon The NW. He is tasked with rebuilding it and I'm sure he'll do a fine job. Just because those Wildlings were cool with Jon and the NW right now, doesn't mean they or others will be forever. Also, who knows what else is out there. AKA, the reason there is a NW in the first place. Jon can still hang out with Tormund occasionally since he's so close.

    I hate to sound like a broken record but if we were supposed to be seeing him say "Fuck the NW!" then why bother putting him in the montage donning the black cloak once again? He had a cloak on when he got there. Hell, as someone pointed out, Ghost seems to have a black patch on him now that almost looks like he is wearing a black cloak too.
    podcartfan
  • Schlupp said:
    My new rule is: don't watch any show beyond season 1 unless the creators have set a limit of 3 seasons, or the entire show has already been released and reviewed. I wasted years caring about The Walking Dead. I wasted years caring about Game of Thrones. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
    The expanse is really good, consistently good writing and author failsaves and everything. The creators had 3 seasons on sifi and now it's a reboot on amazon, so within your own rules you could watch 4 seasons without beeing fooled. :-)

    Correction to your statement, The Expanse is not being rebooted but continued on Amazon.  
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    Some BTS action:






    awookieeMurderbearSanguinePenguinUnderwood
  • So was Bran an evil force who knew Dany was going to massacre innocent people?  And he let it happen so he could become king?  
    Murderbearmajjam0770ScottTenormantelephoneofmadness
  • I don't think I've heard anybody mention this but we almost FINALLY heard the end to Tyrion's story about "I once brought a jackass and a honeycomb into a brothel" but of course they cut away just before AGAIN.  Damn them I want to know what happened. 
    SanguinePenguinCeciliaM
  • I don't think I've heard anybody mention this but we almost FINALLY heard the end to Tyrion's story about "I once brought a jackass and a honeycomb into a brothel" but of course they cut away just before AGAIN.  Damn them I want to know what happened. 
    Found this on another forum.....

    Tyrion walks into a brothel with a honeycomb and a jackass.
    Madame: What can we do for you?
    Tyrion: I need a woman to lay with, for mine has left me.
    Madame: Whatever for? And what's with the honeycomb and the mule?
    Tyrion: My woman found a genie in a bottle, and he granted her three wishes. The first was for a house fit for a queen, so he gave her this damn honeycomb. The second wish was that she have the nicest ass in all the land, so he gave her this damn donkey...
    Madame: And what about the third wish?
    Tyrion: Well... she asked the genie to make my cock hang down past my knee.
    Madame: Well that one's not so bad eh?
    Tyrion: Not so bad!? I used to be six foot three!"




    bbordToolowbrowawookieeblue_sleevemajjam0770hoos30CeciliaMrkcrawf
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    Watched it for a second time last night. It was a very HBO ending. As in, the story goes on, you just don't see it. That being said, I liked it a lot. 
    SanguinePenguinmajjam0770CeciliaM
  • So was Bran an evil force who knew Dany was going to massacre innocent people?  And he let it happen so he could become king?  
    I think that's a safe assumption, they had Bran acknowledge that he knew what was going to happen with the council for a reason. Or maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit and they didn't realize what that line meant in relation to the rest of the season. 
  • edited May 21
    So was Bran an evil force who knew Dany was going to massacre innocent people?  And he let it happen so he could become king?  
    I mean, what could he do? Jon had enough trouble betraying  Dany after the fact, I don't think he would have killed her if Bran had warned him before she nuked KL. And who else would be in a position to kill Dany? Arya I guess, but that's only because the show can't decide if she's a nearly supernatural, invisible killing machine who can take any form or just a fairly agile girl. 
    rkcrawf
  • All the ChickensAll the Chickens Birmingham, AL
    edited May 21
    Bran definitely sent Jon to the place that he knew Jon wanted to go anyways, and I don't believe for a second that Jon is coming back to serve at the useless Nights Watch prison camp after he gets to the new Freefolk camp, or that Bran ever thought that Jon would stay at Castle Black any longer than it took for Jon and Tormund to get together and leave to settle the "real North" like Tormund talked about to Jon in a previous episode.
    Jon is way too honor bound like his Daddy to just abandon The NW. He is tasked with rebuilding it and I'm sure he'll do a fine job. Just because those Wildlings were cool with Jon and the NW right now, doesn't mean they or others will be forever. Also, who knows what else is out there. AKA, the reason there is a NW in the first place. Jon can still hang out with Tormund occasionally since he's so close.

    I hate to sound like a broken record but if we were supposed to be seeing him say "Fuck the NW!" then why bother putting him in the montage donning the black cloak once again? He had a cloak on when he got there. Hell, as someone pointed out, Ghost seems to have a black patch on him now that almost looks like he is wearing a black cloak too.
    Eh, I just choose to believe that the very intentional shot of Jon looking back conflicted as the gates closed behind them was the show telling us Jon is saying goodbye to that life south of the wall forever and is riding off into the sunset. 
    *Jon stops and looks  back 
    *the gates close 
    *Jon then looks down with a conflicted look on his face thinking about something
    *Then the musical score goes to an upbeat GOT tone and Jon starts riding forth again.
    To me, if they wanted to indicate Jon was a true blue NW member who was stuck to this dumb fate, they would have just shown Jon saying goodbye and looking out from the wall or gates longingly as Tormund and Ghost lead all of the wildlings away. 

    At the very least it's ambiguous, as most people I've watched reacting to this are under the impression that he's going to live with the freefolk north of the wall like Tormund said he should when they said goodbye.

    I also doubt that Jon cares about some renewed vows for this now fairly useless institution that was founded because of magical ice demons trying to kill everyone, not because of the poor people who got stuck on that side of the wall after it was built. Jon has had to break so many vows, most recently to "his queen" that I don't think Jon cares anymore. He just wants to disappear from this world and live out his years.
    CapeGabeSanguinePenguin
  • So was Bran an evil force who knew Dany was going to massacre innocent people?  And he let it happen so he could become king?  
    I mean, what could he do? Jon had enough trouble betraying  Dany after the fact, I don't think he would have killed her if Bran had warned him before she nuked KL. And who else would be in a position to kill Dany? Arya I guess, but that's only because the show can't decide if she's a nearly supernatural, invisible killing machine who can take any form or just a fairly agile girl. 
    He really set the wheels in motion for the conflict between Jon and Dany to happen.  And without that conflict, I'm not sure that she would have done that.  And no warnings about the Iron Fleet being outside of Dragonstone with scorpions.
    ScottTenormanrkcrawf
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    edited May 21
    So was Bran an evil force who knew Dany was going to massacre innocent people?  And he let it happen so he could become king?  
    I mean, what could he do? Jon had enough trouble betraying  Dany after the fact, I don't think he would have killed her if Bran had warned him before she nuked KL. And who else would be in a position to kill Dany? Arya I guess, but that's only because the show can't decide if she's a nearly supernatural, invisible killing machine who can take any form or just a fairly agile girl. 
    They left Bran such a blank slate that I guess anything fits. I wish they would have laid more groundwork if he was to be the ultimate master manipulator. They did a great job at that with Varys and Littlefinger after all.

    What could he do? I mean he could do so many things with his ill defined powers like warging into Danny and jumping off a high tower, warging into Jon or Greyworm Or Missandei and killing her, warging into Drogon and crashing with her riding him, warging into a large animal and killing her, warging into a murder of crows and pecking her to death, etc.

    I mean he could also have warned Danny about Euron’s ambush avoiding the death of a dragon and Missandei, and warned Jon to let her down easy over time instead of just icing her, and warned Sansa to be a bit more welcoming less cold or something.

    So many options seem more appealing than allowing a city to be razed to the ground.

    Maybe it’s a Doctor Strange thing where he examined all possible futures and this was the only path that lead to a good outcome...
    rkcrawf
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