A Teachable Moment: Pride Month
A_Ron_Hubbard
Cincinnati, OH
First, a preamble. To all our LGBT friends, I don't recommend further reading, you're not going to learn anything new, and it's hurtful. Second, Rule #1 is still a thing. As the Apostle Paul said, "return dickishness to dickishness to no one." I'll be cleaning up comments without any heat or malice that fall short of that mark.
So, we switched up our logo for Pride Month to show our solidarity and support for the queer community. We got some shit for it, like you do, and we blocked and moved on, like we do, but one individual took exception to this treatment and further took the time to email us. Names removed because I don't wish this fellow anything but empathy, education, and happiness, because he sounds like he's in pain and is bewildered as to the source. Yet this happens enough that I want to just point people at this thread rather than respond individually, because I really value my waffle time (this will make sense in context). Maybe somebody will have an "aha" moment. Maybe I'll just save a little bit of waffle time in the future.
His initial comment on the social media post was along the lines of "Nice virtue signaling. I didn't sign up for this." This was deleted and he was blocked.
From: Anonymous
To: A.Ron
Message:
I just found myself blocked from the Instagram page despite being a three year Club supporter.
So, we switched up our logo for Pride Month to show our solidarity and support for the queer community. We got some shit for it, like you do, and we blocked and moved on, like we do, but one individual took exception to this treatment and further took the time to email us. Names removed because I don't wish this fellow anything but empathy, education, and happiness, because he sounds like he's in pain and is bewildered as to the source. Yet this happens enough that I want to just point people at this thread rather than respond individually, because I really value my waffle time (this will make sense in context). Maybe somebody will have an "aha" moment. Maybe I'll just save a little bit of waffle time in the future.
His initial comment on the social media post was along the lines of "Nice virtue signaling. I didn't sign up for this." This was deleted and he was blocked.
From: Anonymous
To: A.Ron
Message:
I just found myself blocked from the Instagram page despite being a three year Club supporter.
Please either unban me (and we can discuss your reasons for doing so), or kindly refund my recent subscription and we can part ways.
What won’t happen is my continuing as a Club supporter and putting up with unannounced banning on Bald Move platforms.
Comments
To: Anonymous
Message:
Anonymous, we've unblocked you. But man, it was shitty to post what you posted on our [social media] feed. We're not some faceless global corporation, nor is our support for queer causes insincere, and as a 3 year club supporter you surely must know this. When you do this "virtue signaling" stuff all it does is cast a pall on what we're doing; showing love to people that get shit on far too often. You farted in a room full of people trying to smell the flowers, and were shown the door accordingly, as we can't tell long time supporters from some random jackasses we picked up during GoT season.
To: A.Ron
Message:
To: Anonymous
Message:
Yeah man, your comparison is over the top ridiculous. Because you're not getting lynched or gassed or rounded up and put in camps. You are literally complaining about having your feelings hurt for your beliefs. Gay people have been lynched in both of our lifetimes. Gay people get sent to camps for conversation therapy. What the fuck, man?
To: A.Ron
Message:
To: Anonymous
Message:
*me with my bullhorn, as I'm being drug out by the cops*: "I don't mean to disrupt your service, but can you for the 1,000th time patiently explain to me, because I've never bothered to do any research on what the other side believes or what they go through, why what I'm doing is obnoxious and wrong? This isn't even a particularly loud bullhorn! I was merely politely stating my sincerely held personal belief. Engage with my argument! ENGAGE WITH MY--"
To: A.Ron
Message:
I enjoy your podcasts very much and wish you a good day. In happier times, these things would not divide us. Social media has made rogues of us all. It’s been a cancer to our common discourse.
One final reminder, Rule #1 is in force. Don't be a dick. Or as Jesus would say, turn the other cheek.
That being said, anyone who brings up their religion when arguing should start by saying "now supposing we are the same religion..."
I realize I must come off as like such a rube or an idiot for engaging with people with these views, especially in light of the real pain it causes people. But shit, a lot of people did it for me, and getting reproved by cool people I admired was not a small part of me pulling my head from my ass. Maybe ten years from now one of these guys will return the favor.
I empathize, as I think you do, as it should be clearer by now that all "I feel targeted" isn't the same as "my oppression is as bad as theirs". People's feelings are their feelings, and emotions aren't always backed up by logic. It can be hard for me, talking with a trump supporter or a misogynist or whatever, to have empathy in the face of a lack of empathy, but I always try and each time I get a little bit better at it, and maybe one day good enough to have a safe and vulnerable conversation where we both make progress.
Just this weekend I had a small get together for my son's second birthday and one of the dad's proudly mentioned to me how he'd never changed a nappy. Several years ago I'd have probably just said "that's fucked up" but instead this time I talked about why I am a more active participant and how we share parenting duties, how I think it will have an impact on us raising a man, how it is another way to care for my son and respect my wife etc. I didn't focus on negatives of not doing, just on positive of doing. He didn't necessarily agree but he didn't try and laugh it off or hit me with "you're whipped", so I hope he found time to reflect. Education on open mindedness cannot be drilled into someone, nor can minds be changed by "you're an idiot", I think.
@A_Ron_Hubbard I appreciate that you, @Jim, and @Cecily strive to cultivate a community that is built on that principle. Personally, I liked the logo change and even suggested that it would look great on a tank and/or tee in the merch shop.
Matthew 7:5, man!
I recognize both the privilege and responsibility of being both male and white, affords me in terms of being able to sit back and not rip out someone's eyeballs. When it's closer to home (like when someone joked to my kid that he didn't have a soul because he is a redhead) I find it a lot harder to take a conciliatory tone.
You shouldn’t get a pass for being a homophobe for your religion either. If your religion contains teachings against LGBT people having the right to marry and love who they want, and you devoutly believe in those teachings, you’re a homophobe. It’s the same fucking principle, religious beliefs aren’t a “get out of jail free” card for being an unreasonable asshole.
Because here’s the thing people, we’re not forcing you to change your mind. I’d really love it if you let all that hate in your hearts go and accepted people for who they are and I think everyone would be better off that way. But if you want to continue to hate minorities, or LGBT people, or women/men, or whoever the fuck for whatever religious or non religious reason in the comfort of your own home then go right the fuck ahead. Likewise, I won’t barge into your house, tell you your religion is fake, call you a rube and a sucker, and then prop my feet up on your couch expecting you to welcome me over.
If not being able to loudly announce how you really just hate certain types of people based on their lifestyles seems unreasonable and doesn’t sit well with you, maybe you’re the unreasonable one here.
I actually think this article is pretty spot on regarding how to argue with people in a productive way that’s not just shouting at each other, I just personally lack the temperament to implement it properly.
I think starting the conversation with sarcasm warrants the ban. When the individual reached out in the first e-mail, he/she (henceforth he, as I don't know the gender) seemed pretty angry. Running a business like Bald Move requires a fair amount of putting up with peoples garbage. Kudo's for handling it with measure.
Good on you Mr Hubbard. Hope the waffles turned out great.
I get why some people prefer to take the ‘ignore them and don’t give them a response’ route, but as a gay person in this modern social media age of being open to pretty much any bigoted opinion there is, I find that I start to lack the energy to fight back and stand up for myself. (And I say myself because as far as I’m concerned, if a person hates homosexuality, then they hate me, no qualifiers, no exceptions, no grey areas.)
I’m not saying that what A Ron did has changed anything for this guy, but every time a straight white dude calls another (I’m presuming) straight white dude out on their ignorance, it makes so much more of an impact than me saying it from the gay side of the fence.
To these kinds of people, a retaliatory response from a member of the community they disregard is just as insignificant to them as complete silence. It’s the voices of the people who are just like them who have even a tiny chance of making a dent in their asshole ideologies.
So thanks mate. And happy Pride month everyone.
... how many evangelicals do you know?