A Teachable Moment: Pride Month

245

Comments

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited June 2019
    JaimieT said:
    Maybe it's not "cool" to be religious, but I'd like to meet one person who broke their parents' hearts because they were a traditional Catholic.

    ... how many evangelicals do you know? :smiley:

    Only everyone I knew for the first 20 years of my life.

    And that's all I'm saying on the subject. This thread *is* sad. 
    JoshuaHeterFlukes
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    shout out to @A_Ron_Hubbard for handling this how he did. it's like i could almost feel his heavy fingers as he typed to respond to such an utterly sad choice of words. really glad to be part of this community, work for a big company, and be a fan of an MLB team that supports and bring attention to pride month. this was the giveaway last night in Oakland. almost went just for it.

    Image result for pride fanny pack as

    again,  shout out to Aaron for his stance and sharing.
    cdriveMichelleNoelCretanBullblacksunrise7
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    I got some stuff to say here but first I need to shower off this beach grime. It’s gonna get virtue signally. Be right back....
  • MichelleMichelle California
    I saw this tee earlier.  It would be so great as the back side of a tee with the Bald Move rainbow logo on the front.
    https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/897319-human-rights-and-world-truths
    blacksunrise7
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    edited June 2019
    Preamble - I’ve been day drinking at a beach all day, so the neurons in my brain are a bit withered. OKAY let’s get to it!!!

    I’ll start with one of my favorite Vonnegut quotes:

     “For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course, that's Moses, not Jesus. I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. 'Blessed are the merciful' in a courtroom? 'Blessed are the peacemakers' in the Pentagon? Give me a break!”

    So coming back to the city from the beach I stopped in at a Target to get my oldest son some Pokémon cards and my youngest son an LOL doll. Yeah my 3 yr old boy likes LOL dolls. So what? You got a problem?  

    Right up at front when you walk in, Target had a big “Pride Month” display. A good 30’x30’ area with shirts and just a lot of fabulousness. I even said to my wife “ well how about that!? Good on Target with their little slice of fabulous for Pride Month.”  Times are a changin’.

    I was raised Catholic , aka “Boy Raping Inc.” as @Freddy put it. It’s a tumultuous thing, my and my atheist sister’s relationship with our Catholic family members. I support SNAP. Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. When this recent movement hit home, specifically the Catholic Parish and school we went to showing up multiple times on “the list” for Houston I avowed I’d never bring my boys in a Catholic church again. We’ll see how that goes. It’s complicated with weddings and funerals. 

    But I’m the teenager who told his staunch Catholic family - yeah I’m not going to confirmation classes anymore. I’ve gotten into really nasty, bourbon-infused shouting matches at 1 am at deer camp with my Dad about baptizing my children.  

    So I’m there man, I got skin in the game.  I’ve talked about it here before, but like @CretanBull I cannot STAND IT when people use the “virtue signalling” card to dismiss people doing the absolute correct thing by standing up for the meek, the persecuted. “Social Justice Warrior” is another one. Oh, crimes against humanity are happening, excuse me for giving a fuck. 

    So, @A_Ron_Hubbard ‘s latest dilemma of how to engage and convert ‘radioactive’ mindsets is really a doozy of a problem to solve. It’s like this Flat Earther doc I recently watched, “Behind The Curve”, wherein it’s explained how the true Scientific community didn’t even engage ‘Flat Earthers’ in debate because it was a lost cause. Their logic was so circular and cherry picking to support a belief they will never wane from. So I don’t know man. I just cut bait. Waffle time.

    More about me and my experience with learning the plight of LGBT:  I’m a guy who switched his major to English, so I’m professionally trained to be one of those goddamn critics!  (Now you can all laugh at my grammar flubs, terrible sentence structures and ADD ramblings)

    My two most favorite classes I chose were Women’s Lit and LGBT. My two favorite professors and best relationships I had in school, both women and the LGBT professor being L and I think also appreciative of a guy who wasn’t G or B or T having sincere interest to take the class. I have a pretty nice LGBT section of my library. I like how John Waters recently on Bill Maher said “If you go to their house and there are no books, don’t fuck em!” 

    I learned so much reading books like A Home at the End of the World, Ruby Fruit Jungle, A Boy’s Own Story, Oranges Aren’t The Only Fruit, Middlesex to name a few. But the one that hit the most was Stone Butch Blues. That book fucked me up. Cause it really hit home how real this persecuted life is. I learned about the Stonewall Riots for the first time. I learned what can happen when a lesbian gets incarcerated. It absolutely broke my heart having my lesbian professor educating me how a 20 year spouse can be denied hospital visitation rights as their love is on their last dying breath. 

    That course is definitely why, and I’m cool to admit this even though it opens me up to jabs (pretty sure not here), when later my now wife and I watched Broke Back Mountain in the theater I balled like something I’ve never done before after a movie.  Walking out all tears and a real shower show in the car. Remember all the gay jokes about that movie at that time? It’s not a joke. We need to speak out and support our fellow humans. 

    My wife and I used to live in Montrose, the super gay inner city Houston neighborhood.  The Pride festival used to be right down the middle of Montrose but now they moved it to downtown. Folks are trying now to move it back to Montrose where blood has been spilt and people died defending the right to just wake up everyday and be.  I think Houston is the second largest Pride festival in the nation. But when I would say “oh yeah I live in Montrose” you could imagine the looks and horse shit I would have to endure from conservative Houstonians. 

    My runaway train of thought has run out of track. LGBT Bald Movers, from this BM fam - we love you and we support you! 

    MattyWeavesCretanBullNoelamyja89DummyMarciA_Ron_HubbardTravisFlukesEine Frauand 7 others.
  • MattyWeavesMattyWeaves Mid-State New York
    I hate that this happened, but it's going to be an example I use with my mother in law when she doesn't believe that this is a thing.

    She's a really good person, she just doesn't believe me that lots of religious people are not awesome because we have a mutual friend that is a devout Catholic and is the sweetest little lady I've ever met in my life. She just uses her as an example too much and to be fair, most of my examples are fox news hosts or my step father.

    Maybe this is a discussion for another time, but my wife reminds us both that this little Italian lady isn't Italian American, she's from Italy and has a very different outlook and is accepting of everyone. She's also married to an Indian atheist who worked for NASA. They're fun to hang out with.
    A_Ron_HubbardFlukesMichelle
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @cdrive Can confirm, when I was 24 and my dad found out I was attending a church in Montrose, he said the pastor better not be gay.  :D
    cdriveNoel
  • Ready to punch someone after reading the first few emails from Anonymous. Aron is far more patient than I would have been.
    CretanBull
  • cdrive said:

    I like how John Waters recently on Bill Maher said “If you go to their house and there are no books, don’t fuck em!” 

     Wait, is this a thing? I was kinda enjoying the space that my Kindle has provided me over the years. Got to go out and get a pedestal to display my Kindle at the door. Maybe print out all my receipts and put them underneath it.


    NoelFlukescdriveDeeGiovanni
  • Wow.  Stuff like this really jolts me out of my NYC bubble.  
    CretanBull
  • CapeGabe said:
    cdrive said:

    I like how John Waters recently on Bill Maher said “If you go to their house and there are no books, don’t fuck em!” 

     Wait, is this a thing? I was kinda enjoying the space that my Kindle has provided me over the years. Got to go out and get a pedestal to display my Kindle at the door. Maybe print out all my receipts and put them underneath it.


    It's still an (incredibly dumb) thing. Like, there's no difference between reading a physical book and a kindle book*, except that the physical book is far less practical but looks good on a shelf, if that's your thing. 

    *graphic novels and other books with lots of illustrations or other things not lending themselves well to a physical format notwithstanding. 
  • I've struggled with how to manage this sort of interaction in a virtual world.

    How many minds do we change when we make a stand?  Is it better to chase them off?  Expose their beliefs?  Defeat them with love?  I have no idea.

    I'm glad baldmove has a standard and sticks to it.

    Good for your @A_Ron_Hubbard

  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    The persecution complex on these people is so profound and dumb I never really know how to react to it. Yea sure white Christian men literally control the government, police force, military, the majority of wealth and resources in this country but it is just so hard to be white and Christian because sometimes people don't respect your dominance over  every aspect of our culture.
    MurderbearTraviscdriveEine FrauMarciChinaskimajjam0770DeeCretanBullMichelleand 2 others.
  • Kudos to @A_Ron_Hubbard for at least attempting to pull this person’s head out of their ass, and for having far more patience than I would have, and also for Bald Move’s inclusivity. I came for the TV talk, but I stay for the well-reasoned observations on life, humanity, and uh…TV too. I DID sign up for this!

    What is it with this particular type of “Christian” that they are so hung up on their own persecution complex? I see this happening quite a lot. When people don’t 100% agree with your personal beliefs, you are NOT being persecuted. However, when you take those personal beliefs and inflict them on others in ways that deprive them of human rights, you ARE persecuting them. What’s the saying… it’s something like “when you have privilege, equality looks like oppression.” These hyperbolic claims of victimhood from Anonymous are so ridiculous. I do hope ARon’s responses spark some self-reflection in that person - it’s clearly needed.  Sometimes the mental gymnastics are so surprising that I can’t even wrap my head around formulating an argument - like this argument that “pride month stuff is weaponized anti-Catholicism”… huh??? How do you even get to a view like that? By thinking the world does or should revolve around you, I suppose. It’s that privilege/equality/oppression thing again.

    I think it’s admirable to try to use teachable moments when you can. I’ve grown weary of trying to talk sense into people who refuse to evolve, so sometimes I do just cut bait these days in order to preserve my own sanity, but I try not to use it as a cop out. Online, yeah, sometimes you have to just ignore trolls rather than feed them. But it is important to speak out when you can if you want to be a good ally like @amyja89 said, especially if you’re someone who is in the “majority” (i.e. white or straight or male or cis gendered, etc.). It's hard to know when the right time is, and I don't have the answers about that. I’m pretty non-confrontational, but I have taken people to task for racist or homophobic comments from time to time, although the general result has been them doubling down on whatever their opinion is rather than stepping back and reconsidering. I will say that I’ve seen a wide streak of narrow-mindedness among the people I grew up with in a small Midwestern town. Before Facebook I wouldn’t have expected to see or hear from any of them again, so I just unfriend them if I see them being assholes. However, if they come to my page and feel the need to comment on something I’ve posted, that’s when I take them to task. Then I unfriend them, because who wants to be associated with that?!
    bizmarkiefaderamyja89DrCynPizEine FrauMurderbearChinaskimajjam0770MichelleladylarsenOldGriswoldand 1 other.
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    One of the many reasons I love Bald Move and this community is the opportunity to chat about common interests with people whose experiences are different from mine. If I want to know how a gay person feels about the portrayal of a gay couple on Star Trek, I can get at least a couple perspectives here from people who are both gay and real fans of the property. Those circles don't touch in the venn diagram of people I know personally. That's just one example.

    I want everyone to be a Bald Move fan and participate ESPECIALLY if they don't look, sound, walk, talk or fuck like me. 

    @A_Ron_Hubbard I want you and @Jim to know that I switched to paying monthly and avoid renewing during discount promotions because you take stands like this. 
    DrCynPizbizmarkiefaderTravisMurderbearMarciChinaskimajjam0770DeeCretanBullMichelleand 5 others.
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    edited June 2019
    I grew up in UT and IA. My father had a friend and coworker who was very-out (and who would later end up being my boss) and it just never seemed like a big deal to me. In IA a buddy of mine’s brother was very-out and we hung around with him regularly and it just wasn’t a big deal. So despite living in some places that wouldn’t be thought of as havens for the LGBT community (though in Salt Lake City the community is really quite vibrant and an “L” is currently mayor), I’ve been lucky to have known some great folks in that community all my life so the bigotry I’ve seen toward them was always puzzling.

    Anonymous’s statements were ugly. If you are a Catholic and you think that Pride is a specific weaponized and targeted attack on your faith, then that says more about how you view your faith than about anything to do with Pride. He thinks Catholics are <1% of the population, like that’s some kind of persecution permission slip, while they are really closer to 20% of the population. He’d, I’m sure, argue that he means “Traditional” Catholics and most Catholics don’t qualify thus allowing him to feel superior to other members of his faith as well.

    Such a thirst to find ways to justify a persecution/superiority complex must have deep roots, he’s probably as worthy of pity as of contempt.
    TravisMurderbearMarciChinaskimajjam0770MichelleA_Ron_Hubbardladylarsenblacksunrise7
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited June 2019
    LordBy said:


    Anonymous’s statements were ugly. If you are a Catholic and you think that Pride is a specific weaponized and targeted attack on your faith, then that says more about how you view your faith than about anything to do with Pride. He thinks Catholics are <1% of the population, like that’s some kind of persecution permission slip, while they are really closer to 20% of the population. He’d, I’m sure, argue that he means “Traditional” Catholics and most Catholics don’t qualify thus allowing him to feel superior to other members of his faith as well.


    This is what grabbed me also. I almost spit my coffee out when I read the comment (paraphrased) "clearly it's harder to be a 'Traditional Catholic' in 2019 than LGBT." Are you fucking kidding me? I've lived a picture of privilege and I don't have any real experience to draw on, but I can say that I can't imagine how much anxiety and sadness and loneliness I would experience if my basic rights to be equal were being litigated on a day to day basis in public. That I should have to fight and suffer criticism and "wait for the world to catch up" to just be a person living their lives. I can't even fathom what that must feel like, and this dude is all twisted up about the notion of Pride Month? Are you fucking kidding me! We have it so easy. I've never had to fight for my right to do anything. My biggest life outrages have amounted to being pulled over for going the speed limit and getting an MIP when I wasn't drinking, maybe being messed with by a bully or two for being a "weird-o." So, basically nothing. I've never been judged openly by people for just walking around, giving my wife a kiss in public. I can't remember who said it here earlier, but it's so true. If you're bending over backwards to try to sound reasonable, maybe you should take a look at how reasonable your footing is. Be religious and hold your beliefs and do you, but I'm sorry there are societal effects to being married beyond just calling yourself man and wife in some arbitrary way. It has become a governmental action with associated rights. You don't get to play the "but my religion" card and have it stand up. Marriage is an equal rights issue in our society. Plus, what does it matter to you?

    This is the thing that I have always struggled with: Why there is even a problem? This should be so basic. It's just people wanting to live their lives in the same manner as everyone else. The right to live and love and take part in the world as people. Who cares who someone loves? What does it matter to you, living your life? In what way is your life changed if your LGBT neighbor gets married? None in the least. So where is the problem? Why is this even a thing? It's just people loving each other. Why do people even get to shame people for loving who they love? How would anyone who hasn't been held to any scrutiny feel if suddenly they were? I hate this whole thing so much. It should be so obvious. Is religion really meant to be a pass on simply being good to people? Even if you harbor these ridiculous hateful feelings inside, it just shouldn't be your choice. Individual rights to peace and equality should always supersede religious ones. Always. It's just so obvious. I don't get it.

    EDIT: My wife made a friend recently who had a teenage daughter who was trans and killed herself. That woman has made it a social media stance saying basically "if you don't support LGBT rights, I don't know what to do with you and don't want to interact with you." How could she not? It becomes a representation of what killed her daughter. All the judgment and hate and complexity of just wanting to live as who you are. Even having no personal stakes in it, I get closer and closer to that point every day. I mean, that line represents a fundamental thing that I can't reconcile. Like I said, it should just be so obvious and the severe damage that this culture does to people so needlessly. I mean, seriously why? On both fronts: why does this bother you so much? and Why do you feel like you have the right to cast judgment on people? How do you feel righteously empowered to create policies that take rights away from people because you don't "approve" of the way they live their lives when it doesn't effect you in literally any functional way? Why? I'll never understand. Does Anonymous have any understanding of how harmful that culture is? (I mean I guess not because "it's harder to be a traditional catholic than LGBT in 2019." Give me a break with that.)
    tom_gMurderbearNoelMarciFlukesLordByChinaskimajjam0770Michelleladylarsenand 1 other.
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    It really sucks that this thread had to be started but you all are warming my heart with its continuance. It's not surprising at all because I know the vast majority of the people on here are caring and loving and don't want to put up with this bullshit anymore. It's just really nice to see.
    TravisMarciChinaskimajjam0770LordByNoelFlukesMichelle
  • dragonsdragons NYC
    edited June 2019
    Flukes said:


    @A_Ron_Hubbard I want you and @Jim to know that I switched to paying monthly and avoid renewing during discount promotions because you take stands like this. 
    Yes!  I also pay monthly because I actually want to give Bald Move more of my money.  Feels crazy to say that, but that really shows how much I value it.  I'm glad I'm not the only one. (edited for clarity)
    FlukesTravismajjam0770LordByMichelle
  • dragons said:
    Flukes said:


    @A_Ron_Hubbard I want you and @Jim to know that I switched to paying monthly and avoid renewing during discount promotions because you take stands like this. 
    Yes!  I also pay monthly because I actually want to give Bald Move more of my money.  Feels crazy to say that, but that really shows how much I value it.  I'm glad I'm not the one one.
    That was actually a significant part of my internal calculus as well. In the very least I consciously saw it as a win/win.
    majjam0770LordByFlukesMichelle
  • I did the 5-year deal with the discount so BM could have more of my money sooner while I could still feel like I got a deal.

    Love having BMs in my life, and the whole community.
    TravisMurderbearFlukesMichelle
  • JoshTheBlackJoshTheBlack Atlanta, GA
    edited June 2019
    Part of the reason SOME Christians are so against LGBT rights is because the God represented in the Bible literally destroyed thriving cities due to their homosexuality and godlessness. He killed everyone including Lot's wife, who merely looked back on the city as they were leaving. To them, homosexuality is not just a sin, but it's an impending judgement on the entire society from an angry and vengeful god.  They are fighting against LGBT rights as though their lives depend on it because for some of them they honestly think they do!  

    It's easy for somebody who has taken a step back from religion to evaluate it's merits and shortcomings logically to see how ridiculous that really is.  It's easier to see if you were never indoctrinated in the first place.  Many people are so far indoctrinated into their beliefs it's unthinkable to consider they could be wrong. Sinful even.  

    Edit: 
    P.S. Today's "The Daily" podcast is particularly relevant to this thread. 
    Travisblacksunrise7
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited June 2019
    JaimieT said:
    @cdrive Can confirm, when I was 24 and my dad found out I was attending a church in Montrose, he said the pastor better not be gay.  :D
    Send your dad my way. He can go to church with my mum where the Minister is gay and his husband attends with their adopted daughter, or he can come with me to the church in my area where the Minister is a Lesbian activist - he'd probably love her "What if the American right is wrong?" and "Jesus was a Communist" sermons.  Yesterday was "Bike Blessing & Environmental Sunday" - I'm sure that's right up his alley too!
    Flukes
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited June 2019
    Part of the reason SOME Christians are so against LGBT rights is because the God represented in the Bible literally destroyed thriving cities due to their homosexuality and godlessness. He killed everyone including Lot's wife, who merely looked back on the city as they were leaving. To them, homosexuality is not just a sin, but it's an impending judgement on the entire society from an angry and vengeful god.  They are fighting against LGBT rights as though their lives depend on it because for some of them they honestly think they do!  

    It's easy for somebody who has taken a step back from religion to evaluate it's merits and shortcomings logically to see how ridiculous that really is.  It's easier to see if you were never indoctrinated in the first place.  Many people are so far indoctrinated into their beliefs it's unthinkable to consider they could be wrong. Sinful even.  

    Edit: 
    P.S. Today's "The Daily" podcast is particularly relevant to this thread. 
    I get that. I do. Maybe I can't firsthand understand it, but I can attempt to intellectualize it. My problem with caring to do those gymnastics too extensively is being asked to be empathetic towards a lack of empathy. To arrive at the conclusion that you should treat LGBT people poorly, or not just see them as simply people beyond their sexual orientation is a choice. To support and perpetuate a system where they are treated like second class citizens is a choice. We are trying to build a better society here. Fairness is important; more important than a religions belief that they have the right to make second class citizens of people who don't fit their model. I mean, you could say the same thing about racism and indoctrination, but that doesn't excuse it. That doesn't mean we don't have to get past it, and I'm sorry, but it should be acknowledged as wrong to hold those beliefs. People like Anonymous are reality. They exist and in large numbers, but they're wrong. Pointing that out is the only way that we as a society move forward and start getting it right. That's why what @A_Ron_Hubbard did was important and commendable.
    blacksunrise7
  • The selective use of the jealous vengeful God of the Old Testament when convenient over the God of peace and forgiveness in the New Testament by some Christians is galling to me.

    Some folks go all Leviticus over homosexuality, but they don’t want to discuss most of the other stuff in that particular book.
    TravisCretanBullMarciFlukesJoshTheBlackA_Ron_Hubbardblacksunrise7
  • JoshTheBlackJoshTheBlack Atlanta, GA
    Travis said:
    Part of the reason SOME Christians are so against LGBT rights is because the God represented in the Bible literally destroyed thriving cities due to their homosexuality and godlessness. He killed everyone including Lot's wife, who merely looked back on the city as they were leaving. To them, homosexuality is not just a sin, but it's an impending judgement on the entire society from an angry and vengeful god.  They are fighting against LGBT rights as though their lives depend on it because for some of them they honestly think they do!  

    It's easy for somebody who has taken a step back from religion to evaluate it's merits and shortcomings logically to see how ridiculous that really is.  It's easier to see if you were never indoctrinated in the first place.  Many people are so far indoctrinated into their beliefs it's unthinkable to consider they could be wrong. Sinful even.  

    Edit: 
    P.S. Today's "The Daily" podcast is particularly relevant to this thread. 
    I get that. I do. Maybe I can't firsthand understand it, but I can attempt to intellectualize it. My problem with caring to do those gymnastics too extensively is being asked to be empathetic towards a lack of empathy. To arrive at the conclusion that you should treat LGBT people poorly, or not just see them as simply people beyond their sexual orientation is a choice. To support and perpetuate a system where they are treated like second class citizens is a choice. We are trying to build a better society here. Fairness is important; more important than a religions belief that they have the right to make second class citizens of people who don't fit their model. I mean, you could say the same thing about racism and indoctrination, but that doesn't excuse it. That doesn't mean we don't have to get past it, and I'm sorry, but it shouldn't be acknowledged as wrong to hold those beliefs. People like Anonymous are reality. They exist and in large numbers, but they're wrong, and if there is some litmus test to get into some utopia type afterlife and I fail for believing so then that's what's going to happen because that "God" is wrong.  

    I'm not saying the viewpoint is right or understandable or should be empathised with.  I saw your comments above struggling to understand and thought I'd clarify the reasons some of the people in my family and those I attended church with were teaching.  Understanding an opposing view is the first step to combatting it. Minds won't change when faced with hostility and a lack of empathy. It takes understanding, patience, and being willing to discuss why their views are wrong with compassion. Not saying you should empathise with their view, but empathise with why they hold it.  Or so it seems to me, a person who used to be anti-LGBT for religious reasons because of 2 decades of indoctrination. You certainly don't have to take on every bull-headed homophobe with these terms.  I wouldn't.  But I believe it's the most likely way to move them a step closer to understanding.

    It took years if not decades to program them with hate. It will usually take more than a single encounter to deprogram that behavior. 
    TravisJaimieTDrCynPizOldGriswold
  • TravisTravis CA
    edited June 2019
    @JoshTheBlack I do apologize. It got lost in my grandstanding (and I acknowledge that I got a little "grandstand-y"). I wasn't coming at you and I'm sorry if it came off that way. Totally wasn't my intention. Just commenting (probably not projecting the tone that I heard in my head which is a common problem for me) on the viewpoint. I also get that you can't change people by shunning them without giving them any chances, but it's so tough when it's just such a fundamental thing of fairness and human empathy. I mean, I believe what I said, but I also get that doing SOME gymnastics for understanding is useful and important to realistically bring people along. I think "too extensively" was doing a lot more work in my mind than I translated to the page. At any rate, I'm sorry if I came off like I was coming at you. That wasn't how I was feeling, but I see the translation reading back. I'm honestly still just a bit riled up by the audacity of that quote of his that I've referenced a couple of times. The entitlement and persecuted tone of that sentiment has a way of spinning me up that I'm not particularly proud of and always seems to result in me going into self righteous diatribe mode which I also know isn't the best.

    For what it's worth, I sincerely do appreciate you reaching out with the perspective and I am curious about the podcast. I'll give it a spin. Thanks, and I do apologize for coming off that way.

  • This is basically how it went with my uncle Norman.  I asked my parents why uncle Norman was always with Raymond, and they just told me it was because they loved each other.  As a kid, that made sense to me.  It still does.

    What was far more traumatizing was when I asked my mum why uncle Norman was French and the rest of our family was English.  That's when she broke the news to me that "uncle" Norman wasn't actually my uncle...he was my aunt's friend from work. Its sad, but his family disowned him and my family adopted him - all of this happened before I was even born.  For my whole life Norman and Raymond were at every family Thanksgiving, Christmas, came to all of the family birthday parties, came to our cottage, came with us on a family vacation to Disneyland etc. He was always just my uncle to me and still is.

    MichelleTravisMarciFlukescdriveCecilyA_Ron_Hubbardladylarsenhisdudeness915blacksunrise7
  • JoshTheBlackJoshTheBlack Atlanta, GA
    @Travis No offense taken. I understood what you were saying.  I just thought I could add a little more than my first post, which I wrote while overheated and dehydrated at Six Flags. 
    Travisken hale
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