U.S. Politics Vol. 7: A Dream of 2020

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Comments

  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @blacksunrise7 He’s one of the people closely associated with Epstein. 
    rhcoop
  • I’m seeking clarity. Are you saying that Clinton was a part of the pedophile ring?
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    @blacksunrise7 I’m saying he’s one of the people closely associated with Epstein. 
    Flukesrhcoop
  • Also he wasn't on suicide watch, he had been taken off, but that's a whole other wtf. 
  • Is Trump's insistence that he wants to buy a country that isn't for sale, with no regard for the people who live there or the people who own it and having a public hissy fit and cancelling a diplomatic trip to Denmark because they refuse to indulge him the greatest example of his mental instability to date?
  • Hitler wanted to buy Czechoslovakia - look it up.

  • Is Trump's insistence that he wants to buy a country that isn't for sale, with no regard for the people who live there or the people who own it and having a public hissy fit and cancelling a diplomatic trip to Denmark because they refuse to indulge him the greatest example of his mental instability to date?

    Just because Trump says it doesn't make it automatically stupid. The odds are in your favor betting like that but it is not 100%. Just like the strange mocking of the Space Force he can make a cogent thought occasionally. Russia and China are building up satellite killing weapons. We need a section of the military to protect satellites. That is a major national security issue.

    As far as Greenland goes plenty of countries have bought parts of other countries. US bought Alaska and Virgin Islands. Greenland has a lot of natural resources and with climate change there is a lot being uncovered plus the Arctic Circle is opening up and the Russians operating a lot up there. The natives of Greenland run themselves independently locally and Denmark pays a lot of money to them. Doesn't hurt to ask Denmark if they were willing to sell. People there would live the same under US umbrella as a Danish one.

    No harm in asking if they are willing to sell. If they do that is great if not you haven't lost anything.

    There are plenty of reasons and opportunity to mock the giant orange orangutan but occasionally a broken clock is right.

    rhcoop
  • I think the mocking is from him being mad about it. Also, while there are lots of examples in the past, I am curious if there's any examples post-ww2 of a country selling a large swath of land to another country. I wonder how it would comport with constitutional rights of the citizens in the sold part - would they have to be individually compensated for their private property in the area? Would the selling country have to resettle them? If they stayed, what would they be citizens of? 
    CapeGabe
  • Florida for Greenland
    CretanBullCapeGabeasmallcatrhcoop
  • asmallcat said:
    I think the mocking is from him being mad about it. Also, while there are lots of examples in the past, I am curious if there's any examples post-ww2 of a country selling a large swath of land to another country. I wonder how it would comport with constitutional rights of the citizens in the sold part - would they have to be individually compensated for their private property in the area? Would the selling country have to resettle them? If they stayed, what would they be citizens of? 

    I understand what @CretanBull was getting at. The news cycle mocking started as soon as the initial story was mentioned is what annoyed me. His response to the mocking was true to form, giant orange 5 year old.

    My response was because I'm just getting tired of the editorializing of the news. I want the facts not a left or right slant on it. Most news stories come with their own pre-framed narrative now depending on the source. I shouldn't have to waste time searching for the truth in every news story I read.

    As far as how it would work I have no idea. Since they are self ruling I imaging it would be much  easier than if they were a part of Denmark.
    CretanBullrhcoop
  • edited August 21
    adobo1148 said:
    Florida for Greenland

    Done

  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    General Hayden recently tweeted about this yesterday.  I hadn't seen it even though it's about 3 months old.  74 year old man is more up to date than me.  Really funny delivery:  


  • Some are speculating that he concocted this idea just to be able to decline the meeting with the Danish leadership because he knows Obama will be visiting after him and have a bigger turn out
  • CapeGabe said:
    Is Trump's insistence that he wants to buy a country that isn't for sale, with no regard for the people who live there or the people who own it and having a public hissy fit and cancelling a diplomatic trip to Denmark because they refuse to indulge him the greatest example of his mental instability to date?

    Just because Trump says it doesn't make it automatically stupid. The odds are in your favor betting like that but it is not 100%. Just like the strange mocking of the Space Force he can make a cogent thought occasionally. Russia and China are building up satellite killing weapons. We need a section of the military to protect satellites. That is a major national security issue.

    As far as Greenland goes plenty of countries have bought parts of other countries. US bought Alaska and Virgin Islands. Greenland has a lot of natural resources and with climate change there is a lot being uncovered plus the Arctic Circle is opening up and the Russians operating a lot up there. The natives of Greenland run themselves independently locally and Denmark pays a lot of money to them. Doesn't hurt to ask Denmark if they were willing to sell. People there would live the same under US umbrella as a Danish one.

    No harm in asking if they are willing to sell. If they do that is great if not you haven't lost anything.

    There are plenty of reasons and opportunity to mock the giant orange orangutan but occasionally a broken clock is right.

    I understand why he'd want it, but it's not for sale and the people who live there have never expressed any desire to leave Denmark.  When America bought Alaska, Russia offered it to America - and very few people lived there (and no one cared if the indigenous population objected).  

    The issue isn't that he inquired about it, it's that instead of using diplomatic channels to see if there was a willingness to sell, he chose to make public overtures to acquire sovereign land...and then threw a hissy fit when he was rebuked.  Have you seen the reaction in Denmark?  

    From an article with the headline "Shock in Denmark after Trump, spurned over Greenland, cancels visit"

    Trump's proposal at first elicited incredulity and humour from politicians in Denmark, a NATO ally of the United States, with former premier Lars Lokke Rasmussen saying: "It must be an April Fool's Day joke."

    But the mood turned to shock when Trump late Tuesday called off the Sept. 2-3 visit after Frederiksen called his idea of the United States buying Greenland "absurd."

    "Total chaos with @realDonaldTrump and cancellation of state visit to Denmark. It has gone from a big opportunity for strengthened dialogue between allies to a diplomatic crisis," former foreign minister Kristian Jensen, a member of the opposition Liberal Party, said on Twitter.

    "Everyone should know Greenland is not for sale," Jensen said of the world's largest island, which has considerable mineral wealth and a U.S. military presence at the Thule Air Base under a U.S.-Danish treaty dating to 1951.

    Martin Lidegaard, a former foreign minister, told broadcaster TV2 it was "a diplomatic farce," and Trump's behaviour was "grotesque" and he was "throwing a hissy fit."

    "It is very, very shocking, when it is about a very close ally and a good friend," Soren Espersen, foreign affairs spokesperson for the hard right Danish People's Party, told Danish news agency Ritzau.

    He described Trump's cancellation as an offence to Queen Margrethe, Denmark's head of state, and said he did not expect another visit by the U.S. president would happen.

    Trump and his wife Melania Trump were formally invited to Denmark by Queen Margrethe in July.

    "It shows why we now more than ever should consider [fellow] European Union countries as our closest allies. The man is unpredictable," said Morten Ostergaard, leader of the Danish Social Liberal Party. "Reality surpasses imagination." 


    This isn't a case of 'no harm in asking' - the way he went about things - very, very predictably - caused great harm and I find it genuinely scary that Trump didn't have the foresight to predict this.  America is one of the most powerful nations in the world, Denmark isn't, but by virtue of NATO you're allies.   When an allied country tries to make a public stake of your territory - when it isn't for sale - that is cause for serious alarm...not just for Denmark, but for everyone - allies and non-allies alike.  When Trump follows that up with a "hissy fit" that Danish officials are calling "a diplomatic crisis", that has the entire international community on edge.

    Imagine if America wasn't a dominant country, and out of the blue China or Russia very publicly took a look at some of your territory and said "I want that", you said "sorry, not for sale" and they responded with what amounts to a diplomatic punishment.  You wouldn't be thinking "well, there was no harm in them asking", you'd be thinking "WTF is going on?  We're supposed to be allies??!"

    Do you think that Trump has considered how Canada (and others) might feel knowing that America is looking towards Northern expansion and is willing to punish people allies who rebuke him?

    Maybe in America Trump's erratic behaviour has been normalized to a degree and you're willing to re-contextualize these types of actions, but internationally this story hasn't been taken as "no harm in asking" - it's being eyed with the kind of concern that @tom_g put as "Hitler wanted to buy Czechoslovakia - look it up."  

    DeeBloodyTacoMarci
  • CapeGabe said:
    asmallcat said:
    I think the mocking is from him being mad about it. Also, while there are lots of examples in the past, I am curious if there's any examples post-ww2 of a country selling a large swath of land to another country. I wonder how it would comport with constitutional rights of the citizens in the sold part - would they have to be individually compensated for their private property in the area? Would the selling country have to resettle them? If they stayed, what would they be citizens of? 

    I understand what @CretanBull was getting at. The news cycle mocking started as soon as the initial story was mentioned is what annoyed me. His response to the mocking was true to form, giant orange 5 year old.

    My response was because I'm just getting tired of the editorializing of the news. I want the facts not a left or right slant on it. Most news stories come with their own pre-framed narrative now depending on the source. I shouldn't have to waste time searching for the truth in every news story I read.

    As far as how it would work I have no idea. Since they are self ruling I imaging it would be much  easier than if they were a part of Denmark.

    I understand that completely and agree with you to an extent, but the part of the equation that I don't think people in America are considering is the international implications of this particular incident.  Internally, you've all found your ways of dealing with Trump...the international community isn't there yet.
    CapeGabe
  • @CretanBull

    I hesitated to even bring it up at all because I don't want to ever be backed into a position to defend Trump. My point was the initial uproar over the inquiry was overblown. His response is as I would have expected. I still haven't found the origin of the story. Maybe it was a back channel inquiry that was leaked from the Danish side. I don't think asking is a huge deal. His temper tantrum is. 

    Maybe we are looking for a place to send all our seals so we can go back to the beach without a Great White taking a chunk out of us. Hey, all are seals around here were gone 30 years ago. I wonder where they came from? Canada? Time to tell the Big Orange Baby so he can deal with you.
  • CapeGabe said:
    @CretanBull

    I hesitated to even bring it up at all because I don't want to ever be backed into a position to defend Trump. My point was the initial uproar over the inquiry was overblown. His response is as I would have expected. I still haven't found the origin of the story. Maybe it was a back channel inquiry that was leaked from the Danish side. I don't think asking is a huge deal. His temper tantrum is. 

    Maybe we are looking for a place to send all our seals so we can go back to the beach without a Great White taking a chunk out of us. Hey, all are seals around here were gone 30 years ago. I wonder where they came from? Canada? Time to tell the Big Orange Baby so he can deal with you.
    At first Trump's advisors leaked it to the Wall Street Journal, but afterwards Trump went to Twitter.

    The initial reaction treated it like a joke because most people laughed off the idea that Trump thought that he could buy something that wasn't for sale - it seemed like just another one of his dumb gaffs - but when he very publicly double-down on his position the laughing turned to concern.
  • Trump stated that Denmark may well want to unload Greenland, because Greenland costs Denmark a lot of money.

    What is the correlation between red states (Trump states) and dependence on Federal dollars.  With his logic, we should sell the top 5 or 10.

    https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/


    CretanBull
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    edited August 21
    Territory for sale isn’t really in vogue for the last 70yrs or so because societies typically care more about what residents think than they used to. A quiet inquiry is harmless, though loaded up with irony in this case, and even if that got leaked you could just say “yeah, we asked about it and they’re not interested so that’s that.”

    The irony is that Greenland is going to become a lot more valuable from a resource perspective because of global warming which the Trump administration denies while the Danes and Greenlanders believe the science. The irony is that even if the Danes were on board, you’d have to have the Greenlanders agree to it to even entertain it since they’re a self governing country within the Danish kingdom. The irony is that the bulk of Greenland’s population is indigenous people, not the pale Nordic people that Trump has explicitly said he wants more of in our country. The irony is that these people enjoy the benefits of Democratic Socialism with the right to free education and healthcare and nobody was ever going to agree to a deal that strips this stuff from their citizenry, especially in the long imperial tradition of screwing over indigenous people to strip them involuntarily of the resources on their land, so to do it you’d have to allow the Democratic Socialist welfare state to continue in Greenland; imagine thousands of Americans fleeing to a US territory to get healthcare and education, it’d be like like bizzaro-Puerto Rico.

    Edit: Also Congress would have to appropriate the funds for the purchase as well as for continuing a generous welfare state for the territory unless he goes full Emperor Trump. Can you imagine this Senate approving healthcare for all and free education, just not for US Citizens?
    DeeCretanBull
  • CretanBullCretanBull Toronto
    edited August 21
    @Lordby ; You mentioned Puerto Rico...given how Trump has treated them, you'd have to imagine if a "join the USA or stay with Denmark" referendum were to take place in Greenland you would have to think that the "stay" vote would be somewhere around 100%
  • Yesterday I pointed to the Greenland story as a sign that Trump is losing his marbles and today he's "the King of Israel", "the second coming of God" and "the chosen one".  Touche Trump, touche.  We're only midweek folks.


  • Also not looking at payroll tax reduction, then definitely not looking at payroll tax reduction, then not looking at payroll tax reduction.

    Also caved on universal background checks to the NRA, and then denied caving to universal background checks to the NRA (spoiler alert: he caved to the NRA).

    Also apparently Fox is fake news now too because, you know, they do polls.
    CretanBull
  • I think this is the right thread??? 

    What is the story with the Overstock.com guy?  I'm reading the same vague story with the same vague quotes.
  • tom_g said:
    I think this is the right thread??? 

    What is the story with the Overstock.com guy?  I'm reading the same vague story with the same vague quotes.
    I'm not sure if he's just a bullshitter or mentally ill, but when he stepped down the stock price shot up...so whatever it was, lots of people were aware - and afraid - of it.
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    tom_g said:
    I think this is the right thread??? 

    What is the story with the Overstock.com guy?  I'm reading the same vague story with the same vague quotes.
    Russian boner pills, amigo.

    Apparently he was "romantically involved" with the Russian spy Maria Butina.   
  • cdrive said:

    ...

     Russian boner pills, amigo.

    ...   
    I am the oldest known baldmover - but - those are not necessary my friend.
    cdrive
  • cdrivecdrive Houston, TX
    tom_g said:
    cdrive said:

    ...

     Russian boner pills, amigo.

    ...   
    I am the oldest known baldmover - but - those are not necessary my friend.
    I've always regarded you as a stand up guy.
    tom_gLordBy
  • My favorite tweet ever.

    Rick Scott - Today, I visited the Western Wall in Jerusalem to pray for an end to Nicolás Maduro’s evil regime and genocide in #Venezuela.

    He's not crazy at all.


  • Any good 'sharpie-gate' memes??
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