Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker *SPOILER DISCUSSION*

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  • It's nowhere near as bad as people are saying. It's messy and never gives itself time to breathe, it is trying to make up for the previous film and overall the 3 film arc doesn't work, BUT, it's still alright to watch. I still enjoyed being in the star wars world, it looks great, the performances are good, the action is good. Way beyond the prequels, but way below what people wanted. 
    rkcrawfPangs
  • JaimieT said:
    I think Disney pushes the narrative of the toxic fan base to get the blame off itself. Execs have even deliberately needled them. ("The Force is female.") I think criticizing the fans for their honestly obtained opinions is just doing the work of the rich. 

    Star Wars fans aren't unusually bad. The Star Wars franchise is unusually bad.
    The guy who created this universe sold it because he didn’t want to deal with them anymore. This fanbase is absolutely unusually bad.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2019
    The fans aren't unusually bad.

    Fanbase, that starts to describe an interaction.
    CapeGabe
  • edited December 2019
    amyja89 said:
    I liked it a lot, but I'm not a seasoned, hardcore Star Wars vet. I've seen them all, I pretty much like them all apart from Attack Of The Clones.

    The discussion of Star Wars has become an actual drain for me on my enjoyment of it, more than the actual varying quality of the films themselves. It feels like the fanbase has become a venomous snake that won't stop trying to eat itself. I don't have the energy for it.

    I'm happy to just leave it with the fact that I had a great time in the cinema. Was the Rey/Palpatine connection an unnecessary push? 100%. Was it kind of bullshit that Rose was cast aside? 100%. You can blame the wave of Last Jedi hate for things like that. JJ tried to put two films into one here, and he didn't need to. 


    This is exactly the same way I feel.  I had much older siblings that had me watching Star Wars as a kid and I was 11 when Phantom Menace came out in 99.  It was right up my wheelhouse and I absolutely loved it at the time, I saw both the prequel movies in theaters and enjoyed them.  Rewatching the prequel trilogy definitely puts into perspective how much of a lesser product the prequel movies were but I still enjoy them for what they are to this day.  

    The Star Wars fan base is extremely divided in all aspects of the movies except the original trilogy, that to me shows that there's a lot of people that have different feelings about different aspects the movies.  Star Wars isn't different from any other movie series where people can disagree about movies but Star Wars is such a big thing that people turn toxic about it and bash others in their discussions based on the fact that others like what they don't.  This almost never happens here on the Bald Move forums and I hope that continues.  I understand peoples passion for Star Wars and they feel so passionately about certain movies or certain aspects of it but know that people have vastly different experiences with Star Wars and don't have the attachments to the same things you do.

    I really enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker.  I didn't have any issues with Rey being the granddaughter of Palpatine or with the fact that he's still alive.  I'm just happy that it didn't turn out that Rey was the twin of Kylo/Ben.  I'm glad I was smart enough to realize that there's no way they'd kill Chewy like that because Chewy has always been my favorite in the Star Wars universe.  I have a very hard time ranking the movies so I'm not even going to try and rank this but I really enjoyed watching this movie.  I thought it was a good send off for what is the Skywalker trilogy of trilogies. 
    rkcrawfElisa
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    edited December 2019
    A. Ron in the spoiler review:

    "Someone tell the ground base shield system on Hoth that you can't power shields, IN ATMOSPHEEERE!!!!!! WHAT?!  C'MON!"

    @38:10


    Busted out laughing. A. Ron yelling in frustration is always gold. That being said, that was one of a few things that irked me about the review. Instead of trying to look for reasons why, they just kept looking for attacks on it. Which was a little weird to me considering a lot of the attacks came from the "you've already established this in canon" perspective. From what I understood about Star Destroyers, is that they take an immense amount of power to stay afloat within atmospheres, and so with that in mind it made perfect sense that they would have to wait until naturally floating in space before diverting power to their shields. Ground vehicles, bases and more airplane-like vehicles wouldn't have that problem. Even within the film itself, Poe commands a subordinate to start pulling data on Imperial era Star Destroyers.

    Another big one is the whole "how did the Emperor amass such a huge army". I thought that was explained well within the movie and the pre-Force Awakens canon. When the Empire fled to the outer reaches, they brought a decent chunk of ships, resources, personnel, etc. with them. Couple that with cloning (which seemed very much implied and is a massive part of the series), and it doesn't seem crazy to amass an army that big within 30 years. That's all without a simple explanation that the Emperor could have already had a base of operations, manufacturing, and so on set up on that planet well before the Empire fell. He certainly had the coordinates before then.

    As far as the Rey/Palpatine connection via an unknown son. The Emperor's whole shtick is how masterful he is at deception and subterfuge. Him hiding a concubine baby and subsequent bloodline doesn't seem far fetched at all. Whoever he got pregnant though, it certainly couldn't have been consensual. Oil sheiks get more honest sex.

    Look I get it, it's an easy movie to pick apart, and I certainly have my own issues with it as well as the new trilogy as a whole. I just really would have liked to see more attempts at explaining how and why things worked, rather than why they didn't. I caught myself thinking about the old Walking Dead/Chris Hardwick Baldmove promo, and thought how fun it would be if Jim and A. Ron made a podcast that was only positive and defensive of The Rise of Skywalker. If nothing else just as a goof.

    Long story short, I loved it on first watch, but definitely get the dislike as a whole. Still need to see it once more in the theater and again at home before I really have a final opinion. Hell, I was one of the people who thought TLJ was flat out incredible the first time I saw it, and now it's one of the hardest to get through without skipping most scenes.

    With all this being said, would it be alright if I start another spoiler thread strictly for things people liked about the movie? So many of them for me, and I feel like they will just get lost in the sea of hate/love/argument comments.
    darwinfeeshyrkcrawfElisaA_Ron_HubbardMurderbearPangs
  • Freddy said:
    A. Ron in the spoiler review:

    "Someone tell the ground base shield system on Hoth that you can't power shields, IN ATMOSPHEEERE!!!!!! WHAT?!  C'MON!"

    @38:10


    Hell, I was one of the people who thought TLJ was flat out incredible the first time I saw it, and now it's one of the hardest to get through without skipping most scenes.
    This is exactly my journey with TLJ.
    FreddyrkcrawfElisa
  • edited December 2019
    For whoever is Watching Mr Robot is there a parallel universe where The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker were jaw dropping awesome?
    Elisaseauxphie
  • edited December 2019
    I think I exist then in the parallel universe where TLJ is awesome but somewhere along the way someone created a divergent path in my reality that put me in the one where TROS is not awesome at all.  :p
  • Well, it didn't suck. However there was something lifeless about a lot of the film. Just a pretty hollow experience sadly. 

    As someone who LOVES the Last Jedi, while there were certainly "digs" at it, it actually didn't feel like the big middle finger that critics made it out to be. I will say there was absolutely no good reason Rose couldn't have at least been part of the fetch quest. And I don't want to hear that it should be only the big 3. It could've been the 4 of them just like how Lando was a part of the adventure in ROTJ after becoming a principal character in the prior film. It kind of pisses me off that JJ let the fucking haters win on that one.
    I don't see any reason to include Rose. I don't see any reason to exclude Rose. I don't think she mattered. I liked Lando in the early part of the film. I thought he was also unnecessary in the later half. It was like he was Poe's own personal Force ghost.

    What I did like was Keri Russell as the Rocketeer. Would have liked to see more of her:

  • @CretanBull None of it is meant to be personal, so I apologize if it came off that way.  I hope more people enjoy this movie than don't, but it's okay if they don't. I was able to suspend disbelief enough to be pleased, and there are parts of Rise I didn't like and parts of TLJ that I did.

    That I said, I fundamentally disagree with your take on "Star Wars." JJ doesn't shit on the accomplishments of Han, Luke, and Leia, anymore than George shits on the accomplishments of them. Does Empire diminish their accomplishments in A New Hope? Does the original trilogy diminish the story of the Jedi order? It's just drama, which requires conflict, and how the story goes. I don't think of Ben as diminished bc Anakin turned evil. It's just how the story goes, and saying that JJ damages them implies they were this pristine thing to be put into a glass case and never touched. If JJ had never gotten involved, George was planning to finish the story and still would have had it end somehow. I don't see why I'd expect a geriatric Solo to be the same rogue that he was, especially when we've seen other characters like Yoda and Ben look less than chipper in their golden years. I don't see how you can say JJ is calling the original heroes fools bc they can't see the future...remember they didn't know the Empire had a 2nd Death Star!! Fools!! 

    TLJ segue - In attempt to avoid relitigating TLJ (and I rewatched last week), the problem is that it is a crappy sequel. RJ "sorta forgot" about The Force Awakens. The first act moves from a high-speed chase to a second act that crawls and abandons all of the urgency from the first act, and is ultimately pointless. The hero of this trilogy (Rey) has nothing to do in the third act of the sequel. It doesn't build on the questions opened in the TFA. @CretanBull, RJ tries to abandon the themes of the past, but never does. He chickened out. Let Finn die, or Kylo/Ren team up against the FO and Resistance. But everything resets to the end of TFA. And the humor in TFA was just tonally off. I buy that RJ loves Star Wars (and I think he's a great writer), but I don't think he made a good movie. That it falls in the middle of the trilogy just makes the whole trilogy seem off. 

    To your point, I would have taken new...just not in chapter 8 of 9! I think Kennedy mishandled the franchise. If they wanted to do an RJ trilogy, I'd have been okay with that. If they wanted to do a JJ trilogy fine. But they f'd it up by not having thought it out, and by having everyone do their own thing. 

    Back to Rise...
    General Hux's turn was lazy and stupid.
    I felt odd about lumping some of the black characters together...can't articulate it tho
    The Final Order popped up just as quickly as The First Order did. Out of nowhere
    Uhhh, Finn, what were you gonna say??
    Too much fan service, but it was well done (unlike Solo)



    CretanBullPangs
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    edited December 2019
    rkcrawf said:
    What I did like was Keri Russell as the Rocketeer. Would have liked to see more of her:

    This film needed its own Boba Fett / Darth Maul / Captain Phasma... a character to look cool and do literally nothing else.

    She *couldn’t* do anything interesting, otherwise she wouldn’t fulfill this very important role.
    rkcrawfElisaAww_PHuuCk

  • Welp, at least Chewie got his medal.

    All it took was for Luke, Han, and Leia to die.
    Chewie should have tossed the medal over his shoulder.


    kojiattwoodElisaCapeGabedarwinfeeshyA_Ron_HubbardAww_PHuuCk
  • edited December 2019
    rkcrawf said:
    Well, it didn't suck. However there was something lifeless about a lot of the film. Just a pretty hollow experience sadly. 

    As someone who LOVES the Last Jedi, while there were certainly "digs" at it, it actually didn't feel like the big middle finger that critics made it out to be. I will say there was absolutely no good reason Rose couldn't have at least been part of the fetch quest. And I don't want to hear that it should be only the big 3. It could've been the 4 of them just like how Lando was a part of the adventure in ROTJ after becoming a principal character in the prior film. It kind of pisses me off that JJ let the fucking haters win on that one.
    I don't see any reason to include Rose. I don't see any reason to exclude Rose. I don't think she mattered. I liked Lando in the early part of the film. I thought he was also unnecessary in the later half. It was like he was Poe's own personal Force ghost.

    What I did like was Keri Russell as the Rocketeer. Would have liked to see more of her:

    I get why you think that but your point would ring better with me if all the other additional characters the main three come across in their fetch quest weren't equally as pointless. I liked Keri Russell's performance and Naomi Ackie but their characters' reason for being there were pretty hollow. I don't begrudge them being in the movie but then you could've shoe horned Rose in.

    Going back to my prior point Lando was just shoehorned ultimately in Return of the Jedi for the first third of that movie but none of us complain about how pointless he was to the Jabba subplot because it was just nice to let Lando be part of the fun with the main 3. Rose should've been afforded that opportunity too. She wasn't an amazing character in TLJ granted but she wasn't just another bum either. 
    Elisa
  • edited December 2019
    "She wasn't an amazing character in TLJ granted but she wasn't just another bum either." - @Aww_PHuuCk

    Let the past die!!

    No, seriously, I see what you're saying. I just feel like she's not an asset in a fight and has no other function. If they had her on the Falcon to fix the ship, okay. Threepio and BB-8 had value. The characters you named have value in the fight...one even provided the "horses" for the ground assault. They didn't bring Dominic Monaghan along either bc no one needs a Hobbit in a Jedi assault!!

    edit: that was tongue in cheek, but I prob shouldn't have bc of the racism underlying some (but not all) complaints about Rose. I just think she was a weak link anyway and not someone to lose sleep over. 
    Aww_PHuuCk
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I'll go ahead and be one of the only people upset about what they did to Hux. I really loved Hux as a character in TFA. That smirk when he knows Kylo is about to be chewed out. "Careful Ren" is a badass line.

    TLJ, he got done dirty.

    ROS seems to be an inevitable direction for him after TLJ, but it's still a shame that his options were so limited given his potential. 

    Whatever the state of Star Wars, I have to give props to JJ Abrams for creating several characters I cared about.
    rkcrawfAww_PHuuCkPangs
  • edited December 2019
    What they did to Hux too was pretty lazy. I liked that he was the spy but the dialogue they gave him in declaring he was the mole and why he was helping the Resistance just felt like a big white flag from JJ.
    JaimieTrkcrawf
  • Agree on Hux. I never liked the character, but I don't get how someone let JJ do that.

    On another note, I understand the Skywalker saga is done. Is Rey (Daisy Ridley) done with Star Wars? The one constant for me is that I've enjoyed her performance and character in all 3 films. 

    Every time I saw Dominic Monaghan, I kept thinking why is Charlie with the Resistance? 
    JaimieTdarwinfeeshy
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Speculating on why JJ went this direction with Hux, which I honestly don't hate, it's because JJ set up Hux and Kylo to have a combative, competitive relationship. Emotionally that should culminate in a stand-off. After being broken by Kylo in The Last Jedi, it makes so much sense for him to not only defect but destroy the First Order on his way out. Why even fight for a group that is going to shit on your contributions? Kylo destroyed any dignity he had left. I get it.

    Is it really stupid? Yes. But it's the only pure thing I saw in those leaks. It kind of made my brain light up.
    rkcrawfAww_PHuuCk
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    rkcrawf said:
    On another note, I understand the Skywalker saga is done. Is Rey (Daisy Ridley) done with Star Wars? The one constant for me is that I've enjoyed her performance and character in all 3 films. 

    Who knows, but I hope Rey gets to be the wise Jedi master and mentor that Luke was supposed to be (per the EU). 

    She seems widely liked, so I'd say the only thing standing in the way of that is Disney wanting to completely distance themselves from this chapter of Star Wars if ROS performs poorly.
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    Oh, I'd also like to say that it’s Babu Frik’s world, we’re just living in it.
    FreddyJimdarwinfeeshyPangs
  • MichelleMichelle California
    (in a Fast and Furious sort of a way). 
    That solidified it for me... I'll save my $$.
    (Not a fan of the F&F franchise.)
    Dummy
  • FreddyFreddy Denton, Texas
    amyja89 said:
    Oh, I'd also like to say that it’s Babu Frik’s world, we’re just living in it.
    Glad to see this little guy grew up and even managed to find gainful employment:

    JimA_Ron_Hubbard
  • I enjoyed it. But it requires turning off the critical part of your brain, and just being in the universe with the events and the characters. I can't do this with all movies, but I can do it with Star Wars. I guess because, the second the scroll pops up, it's like I'm nine year old again.
    rkcrawfJoshuaHeterFreddyPangs
  • rkcrawf said:
    @CretanBull None of it is meant to be personal, so I apologize if it came off that way.  I hope more people enjoy this movie than don't, but it's okay if they don't. I was able to suspend disbelief enough to be pleased, and there are parts of Rise I didn't like and parts of TLJ that I did.

    That I said, I fundamentally disagree with your take on "Star Wars." JJ doesn't shit on the accomplishments of Han, Luke, and Leia, anymore than George shits on the accomplishments of them. Does Empire diminish their accomplishments in A New Hope? Does the original trilogy diminish the story of the Jedi order? It's just drama, which requires conflict, and how the story goes. I don't think of Ben as diminished bc Anakin turned evil. It's just how the story goes, and saying that JJ damages them implies they were this pristine thing to be put into a glass case and never touched. If JJ had never gotten involved, George was planning to finish the story and still would have had it end somehow. I don't see why I'd expect a geriatric Solo to be the same rogue that he was, especially when we've seen other characters like Yoda and Ben look less than chipper in their golden years. I don't see how you can say JJ is calling the original heroes fools bc they can't see the future...remember they didn't know the Empire had a 2nd Death Star!! Fools!! 

    TLJ segue - In attempt to avoid relitigating TLJ (and I rewatched last week), the problem is that it is a crappy sequel. RJ "sorta forgot" about The Force Awakens. The first act moves from a high-speed chase to a second act that crawls and abandons all of the urgency from the first act, and is ultimately pointless. The hero of this trilogy (Rey) has nothing to do in the third act of the sequel. It doesn't build on the questions opened in the TFA. @CretanBull, RJ tries to abandon the themes of the past, but never does. He chickened out. Let Finn die, or Kylo/Ren team up against the FO and Resistance. But everything resets to the end of TFA. And the humor in TFA was just tonally off. I buy that RJ loves Star Wars (and I think he's a great writer), but I don't think he made a good movie. That it falls in the middle of the trilogy just makes the whole trilogy seem off. 

    To your point, I would have taken new...just not in chapter 8 of 9! I think Kennedy mishandled the franchise. If they wanted to do an RJ trilogy, I'd have been okay with that. If they wanted to do a JJ trilogy fine. But they f'd it up by not having thought it out, and by having everyone do their own thing. 

    Back to Rise...
    General Hux's turn was lazy and stupid.
    I felt odd about lumping some of the black characters together...can't articulate it tho
    The Final Order popped up just as quickly as The First Order did. Out of nowhere
    Uhhh, Finn, what were you gonna say??
    Too much fan service, but it was well done (unlike Solo)



    Empire doesn't shit on A New Hope.  In terms of story, Empire doesn't say "turns out you didn't blow up the Death Star" it says "the bad guys are persistent and there's more work to be done".  In terms of character arcs, this stuff was based on mythology, and as much as A New Hope gave the characters arcs, they were incomplete.  There's a rough following of 'The Hero's Journey' in A New Hope so if that had ended up being a one-shot film the boxes would have been checked - but it's the 3 movies together that really dig in and solidify those arcs and they were complete by the end of Return of the Jedi.

    My personal feeling is that they should have let them be and made the new trilogy about Rey (she was the only thing that I like about Force Awakens).  If they insisted on bringing back the old characters they could have done it without shitting on them.  They could have allowed them to be support characters for Rey's movies.  What they shouldn't have done is turned them into a sad-sack bunch of losers (Han/Leia divorced, Han's arc negated by going back to his old ways, Luke is a reclusive failure, R2-D2 so depressed he can't even speak etc).  If JJ gave us Lord of the Rings part 4, Gandalf would have dementia, Frodo would be an alcoholic, Sam would be abusing his wife and SURPRISE!  Sauramon isn't dead after all!  And get this - there's a new ring that has to be taken to a new volcano, awesome eh?

    Whatever credit we want to give Force Awakens for being visually stunning, good acting, fun to watch etc in terms of themes and mythology it was a dud.  RJ realized that and tried to course-correct.  Ending Kylo's "new Darth Vader" arc, getting rid of Snoke as the new Emperor and establishing that Rey wasn't anyone special (by virtue of birth) were GREAT decisions that immediately improved on JJ's BS.  The closing scene with the stableboy delivered one of the most important messages of the film - the force can be in anyone, you don't have to be a part of a special magic family for these movies to mean anything.  JJ's hot take is that Rey isn't part of the Skywalker or Kenobi magic families, surprise! she part of the Palpatine magic family.  He doesn't understand Star Wars (or he's servicing fans who don't get it).
    ElisaJaimieT
  • JaimieT said:
    rkcrawf said:
    On another note, I understand the Skywalker saga is done. Is Rey (Daisy Ridley) done with Star Wars? The one constant for me is that I've enjoyed her performance and character in all 3 films. 

    Who knows, but I hope Rey gets to be the wise Jedi master and mentor that Luke was supposed to be (per the EU). 

    She seems widely liked, so I'd say the only thing standing in the way of that is Disney wanting to completely distance themselves from this chapter of Star Wars if ROS performs poorly.
    I'd like to see more movies about Rey.  I think they've created a problem for themselves though by making her so powerful...it would take some clever writing to come up with a suitable threat to challenge her while still furthering the themes of Star Wars.  Sadly, if they made more movies I think that they'd just abandon themes and make a kick-ass action film where she does all sorts of cool stuff, which might be a fun popcorn movie to watch but wouldn't really be Star Wars-y.
    Elisa
  • So i was recently listening the the Unspooled podcast Star Wars episode and Paul Sheer brought up the idea that ultimately these movies are kids movies. He mentioned that most adults hated the prequels but many kids loved them. 

    I was in middle school when the prequels came out and absolutely loved them. My entire school was obsessed with those movies. Now as an adult I see how cheesy they are. I also find the original movies cheesy as I return to them. 

    Aron said in the podcast, “my son loved the new movie”. I think that makes my point. Jim said he keeps waiting for the next movie to be good. I think what we are waiting for is for us all to be 10 again and going through that initial discovery. Not saying these aren't bad movies. 

    Most of my all time favorite shows and movies from my childhood are cheesy as hell but i still enjoy them primarily for the nostalgia factor. I know ppl that watched the original Star Wars for the first time as adults and find them ridiculous. So idk, just a thought.
    Pangs
  • @CretanBull we already knew the Force could exist in anyone. We never thought all the Jedi we’ve seen were all related. The inconsistent and painful midichlorian bs, Shmi’s virgin birth, etc. set the stage. I never thought that Rey HAD to be from one of those families, but she could be. Luke and Leia didn’t have to be related. Neither did Luke and Vader. But it’s the Skywalker Saga and that’s the story George started telling.

    Its funny bc I think we both like SW but for different reasons. I don’t see Kylo’s Vader arc ending until Rise. Sure, he took off the mask, but he tried to hunt Rebel scum and duel Luke. He killed his Emperor just like Vader planned to do. 

    Ben was a powerful Jedi. IV has him turned into a sad-sack “crazy old wizard.” 
    CretanBullAww_PHuuCkPangs
  • As much as I liked that the TLJ revelation of Rey's parents, I actually like that Rey is a Palpatine. I feel the mistake was that JJ retconned her parents from filthy junk traders to these good people who needed to protect her by abandonment. I think I would've preferred they kept them drunks but make them more tragic rather than that they were scumbags. I don't know. 


    rkcrawf
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    JaimieT said:
    rkcrawf said:
    On another note, I understand the Skywalker saga is done. Is Rey (Daisy Ridley) done with Star Wars? The one constant for me is that I've enjoyed her performance and character in all 3 films. 

    Who knows, but I hope Rey gets to be the wise Jedi master and mentor that Luke was supposed to be (per the EU). 

    She seems widely liked, so I'd say the only thing standing in the way of that is Disney wanting to completely distance themselves from this chapter of Star Wars if ROS performs poorly.
    I'd like to see more movies about Rey.  I think they've created a problem for themselves though by making her so powerful...it would take some clever writing to come up with a suitable threat to challenge her while still furthering the themes of Star Wars.  Sadly, if they made more movies I think that they'd just abandon themes and make a kick-ass action film where she does all sorts of cool stuff, which might be a fun popcorn movie to watch but wouldn't really be Star Wars-y.

    The EU handled this with Luke by having Luke be tied up training students. He couldn't rush off to help this story or that one. Of course that means you'd get less development for Rey. Yeah, it's sad that she's currently a little stuck.
    CretanBull
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