Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker *SPOILER DISCUSSION*

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  • I felt like I was watching the movie with the fast forward button mashed in. I was very nonplussed by the entire experience but my 10 year old son loved it. I probably would have loved it too when I was 10.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • I think even if it had a good process, the odds were stacked against this trilogy living up to potential. Hamill, Fisher and Ford are all in their late 60s, early 70s. The conclusion to the Skywalker saga that people would want would feature the three more prominently, but there's no way a major studio would do that. What the more dedicated fandom would want was Luke and Mara fighting Joruus Cbaoth or something similar, which can't be due to age.

    So this was going to be a story of a hand off. Which is where I guess the bad process part comes in. And it's where for me TLJ simply ruined this trilogy for me. I really wish Rian Johnson had had the strength of his convictions. But to me the whole thing with first introducing the intergalactic elite who profits from war no matter who is in charge and who has literal child slaves, and then having our heroes free the non-horses and ignore all of that made it clear that they had no direction in mind.
    I think TLJ is a brilliant pivot point that any great writer could have run with, but my one criticism has remained throughout- Kylo and Rey should have joined forces at the end of that movie. THAT should have been the cliffhanger leading into this last movie. I don’t know if that was an RJ thing or a Disney thing, but a final conflict between Kylo/Rey and the FO/Resistance is immeasurably more interesting than what we got. 

    That, too. It makes no sense for Rey, who thought the Jedi were a legend a couple of days ago, who had a terrible introduction to jedis via grumpy Luke, would at the end reject someone she had a connection with for the Jedi.
    JaimieTseauxphieweeniegirl
  • I really dislike the idea of Leia as a jedi.

    I gave a pass to the TLJ space floating scene because I thought it was some kind of latent Force ability.

    But no, it turns out that Leia is a fully fledged jedi who had blindfolded lightsaber fights with Luke in the woods. But old Leia doesn't have a lightsaber on her? Seems like it would be useful.

    And I don't buy the "I see darkness in my future" excuse. I would buy that if she fucked off to the outer rim and lived as a hermit, but no, she instead became a general in the galactic resistance. That's not exactly laying low and avoiding darkness.
    Pangs

  • Regardless of anyone's personal like or dislike of the resulting movies, this strikes me as one of those Bad/Good Process / Bad/Good Outcome type quadrant deals. I think the way you handle these kind of things is either plan things out in advance and coordinate between the directors and projects, or you do them one at a time and wait until you have a good story ready to go before you go ahead with the next one. To do otherwise is a "bad process", and it's a bad process regardless of whether you liked the movie or not ("Good outcome"). I'd rather have good processes that crank out the occasional creative failure than bad processes that occasionally crank out a watchable film for some people.

    But that's just me.

    I totally agree. All of these Disney SW movies just had complete feeling of "We'll just make it up as we go", with the closest contemporary being Disney MCU which feels meticulously planned out to the smallest detail.

    I doubt either of those approaches are completely true for either of those properties, but with the new SW stuff they really just seemed to come at these just all wrong. I liked TFA, and could see what JJ was doing with teeing up a bunch of plot threads for the next in line to play with without knowing himself what the details could be. I guess that could work, but Rian just mowed all that down with what he wanted to do. JJ then went back to his toybox and pulled out all the old plot threads he thought would be fun to play with again. It just feels so disjointed.

    For the record, I liked ROSkywalker, just didn't like that it felt like 2.5 movies crammed into 1, with the opening crawl being almost an entire additional movies' worth of plot on its's own...
  • edited December 2019
    RE: the opening crawl

    "The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE."

    Why the hell is this something that happened OFF-SCREEN?!?!?!
    weeniegirl
  • FUCK IT...

    I liked the last Jedi and I liked this too.  Just let go and have fun.  Come on, it’s Star Wars.

    and yeah, bring on TENET!
    chrisk
  • I'm ready for Rogue One Part 2: Rise of Jyn Erso 
    darwinfeeshy
  • adobo1148 said:
    I'm ready for Rogue One Part 2: Rise of Jyn Erso 
    What about the slated Cassian Andor spin-off TV show?
  • DoubleTDoubleT Melbourne, Australia
    Saw it a second time. Very conflicted about this thing. I can at least say that some of the minor plot issues that @A_Ron_Hubbard & @Jim commented on actually track ok in the movie. For example, they don't randomly crash land on any planets. There's a stated purpose behind each trip. They don't just happen to run into Lando. He said Leia had sent him a transmission asking him to meet with the Falcon team & help them. Sinking through the quicksand I think is kinda ok. They find that Sith loyalist's ship & it's in the quicksand area, so they suffer the same fate as the Sith guy by falling through. I think early on during some quickfire dialogue Poe mentioned the Falcon's landing assembly was faulty, so that would explain the crash landing. Overall I suspect those types of little things are all accounted for in the plot, but regardless the movie has bigger issues.
    Pangs
  • Per the podcast, Shazam! is a lot of fun.  Give it a chance, @Jim.
    JaimieTA_Ron_HubbardAww_PHuuCkTeresa from Concord
  • RE: the opening crawl

    "The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE."

    Why the hell is this something that happened OFF-SCREEN?!?!?!
    Umm you’re talking about a series that started at episode 4 in the middle of a rebellion. Not that crazy for this to be off screen. Especially with the heavy marketing he was back. They didn’t need to spend anymore time as it was a bit bloated already. 
    RyanReesemanDoubleTAww_PHuuCk
  • My feelings exactly. After T L J i felt something, I didn't like it as part of a series of films, but on its own was solid. After this one though, just no feelings one way or the other.
  • I think even if it had a good process, the odds were stacked against this trilogy living up to potential. Hamill, Fisher and Ford are all in their late 60s, early 70s. The conclusion to the Skywalker saga that people would want would feature the three more prominently, but there's no way a major studio would do that. What the more dedicated fandom would want was Luke and Mara fighting Joruus Cbaoth or something similar, which can't be due to age.

    So this was going to be a story of a hand off. Which is where I guess the bad process part comes in. And it's where for me TLJ simply ruined this trilogy for me. I really wish Rian Johnson had had the strength of his convictions. But to me the whole thing with first introducing the intergalactic elite who profits from war no matter who is in charge and who has literal child slaves, and then having our heroes free the non-horses and ignore all of that made it clear that they had no direction in mind.
    I think TLJ is a brilliant pivot point that any great writer could have run with, but my one criticism has remained throughout- Kylo and Rey should have joined forces at the end of that movie. THAT should have been the cliffhanger leading into this last movie. I don’t know if that was an RJ thing or a Disney thing, but a final conflict between Kylo/Rey and the FO/Resistance is immeasurably more interesting than what we got. 
    Yes!! We agree! I was along for that story and felt teased by the end. Everything reset to 0. 
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    There are so many issues we could discuss but for me the biggest gripe I have (that not many are really talking about) is that there are NO stakes in this universe. 

    N.E.R.D. 

    LET THE DEAD STAY DEAD!

    this is becoming such a huge issue for me across all media platforms but it’s really ticking me off with this franchise. How do we go back to watching TROJ knowing that hey, the emperor ain’t really dead. You know that feeling you get when he gets tossed down that shaft? Yeah, screw your feelings. He’s back. Oh Darth maul got cut In half? It’s all good, he made it too. Turns out, these sith guys are pretty tough to kill. 

    Why am I expected to believe the emperor is truly dead? Cause he was blown up? HOW DID CHEWIE SURVIVE!? You could say specs of the emperor survived and you know, I’d say you’re not wrong. 

    Idk it’s just a huge problem for me since the trailers came out. Why can’t these assholes just stay dead. Use these new baddies you made, they’re really cool characters. 

    Let the past die! That’s literally from the first of this trilogy. Truer words could not be spoken. 

    With all that being said, I actually enjoyed this movie. And the emperor totally had more kids. More reys out there for sure. Gotta be. 

    Watching it again tomorrow in imax. Can’t wait.
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    I’d like to add, im ok with Rey being a Palpatine. I just wish the emperor wouldn’t have made a return while attached to a claw machine. 
  • edited December 2019
    I’d like to add, im ok with Rey being a Palpatine. I just wish the emperor wouldn’t have made a return while attached to a claw machine. 
    I'm ok with it too, but it should have been explained more clearly. It would have been cooler & creepier to make her an immaculate conception/clone/midichlorian-baby like Anakin... some kind experiment of Palpatine. The "parents" could have been servants that ran away with her.

    I think it also would have been cooler to make Palpatine a full-on Force Ghost, Force Lich, or some other kind of undead badass. Also, kind of a missed opportunity not to have a Force Ghost battle with Qui-Gon, Obi, Mace, et al. Yes, it would have been cheesy, but that doesn't stop them from doing tons of other cheesy stuff. It could have been 3 minutes, and then the Emp. blasts everyone with ghost-lightning until Rey saves the day. I would have been on my feet cheering!
    Aww_PHuuCk
  • LordByLordBy Utah
    edited December 2019
    Keri Russell’s character (Zorii) is all: I want to see your brains splattered in the snow Poe, and the bounty on this Rey girl will just almost get me out of the whole you dug me into!
    Then she’s all: wait a tick, I actually like Rey now, so now I like you too Poe, and there is no hole that I’m stuck in, I can just cowboy up and fly around the galaxy whenever I want!

    No transition or evolution, just “Die MF’er I need the money!” then “We’re all good I’ll ride or die for you!”

    Small moment, but it kind of encapsulates my issues with the crammed and sloppy nature of the story.

    Rey is Palpatine’s daughter? Okay, I can roll with that, but Palpatine has to be reincarnated too? Some kind of hand-wavy force-clone shit that still resulted in him being an old maimed dead-looking dude 30 years after he was blow up...

    Star Destroyers that can blow up planets? Okay, at least it’s not another Death Star clone, but you have to have tens of thousands of them when 10 would do just fine as a threat and be more believable?

    Star Destroyers can’t leave the atmosphere without a navigation tower on the ground? You can do better.

    Hyperspace skipping? Another droid? CP30 mind-wipe that’s reversed anyway? Largely-intact Death Star wreckage after that explosion in Ep 6? Rey can hold a spacecraft thrusting away with her mind, but she needs some junky outrigger to cross a narrow stretch of water? You’re asking for a lot.

    Both my son and I thought Kylo wasn’t actually on the Death Star wreckage with the intact storm trooper helmets and emperor throne, it was that force bond with Rey right? Had to be because he never actually arrived there or anything and they’ve been doing the cool force bond thing. Wait, what, he’s there? Huh?

    This is one of those things where I lost suspension of disbelief early and from there on everything becomes a problem, but there were a lot of unforced errors in the script here that brought me to that point. JJ is JJ, I lay this disaster at the feet of Kathleen Kennedy and Disney. If this script was the best they had, they should have nixed the go-fever and taken a year or two to wrap this up in a more thoughtful way.
    JaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I wasn't planning on seeing this, but family and the holidays, here we are.

    Worth the price of admission was Luke's scolding, "The weapon of a Jedi deserves more respect than that."

    And then him raising the fucking X-wing from the fucking ocean. Finally.

    I cried. 
    FreddyrkcrawfweeniegirlDoubleA_Ron
  • DoubleTDoubleT Melbourne, Australia
    There are some interesting details that should’ve been made clear in the movie. The planet at the beginning is Mustafar. Kylo Ren is murdering some Sith cultists near the ruins of Vader’s castle. The one we see in R1. So each Sith had a Wayfinder. Kylo took Vader’s & Rey found Palpatine’s. Which is cool but again, pity it wasn’t made clear the film. 
    darwinfeeshyrkcrawfweeniegirl
  • JoshuaHeterJoshuaHeter Omaha, NE
    edited December 2019
    DoubleT said:
    There are some interesting details that should’ve been made clear in the movie. The planet at the beginning is Mustafar. Kylo Ren is murdering some Sith cultists near the ruins of Vader’s castle. The one we see in R1. So each Sith had a Wayfinder. Kylo took Vader’s & Rey found Palpatine’s. Which is cool but again, pity it wasn’t made clear the film. 
    No time. Had to shove in more things.
    darwinfeeshy
  • gguenotgguenot CA
    edited December 2019
    Man... I LOVED TLJ. And I was exited, didn’t have my expectations too high, and was going in ready to give this movie the benefit of the doubt where needed. But this movie was garbageeeeee. I’m so sad and disappointed and upset because it seems like they tried to make it as bad as it was.
    seauxphie
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    Just got out for a second time, I liked it even more. The emperor being alive kind of grew on me. And my main gripe about Chewy being alive is gone, there clearly are two transport ships. So they get a pass for that at least. 
    Freddy
  • WonderedObjectWonderedObject SAN Francisco, CA
    I’d like to say, Reys theme song is up there with the best of them. I felt that after TFA but I think it might be my favorite for the franchise.
    JaimieTweeniegirlAww_PHuuCkFreddychriskdarwinfeeshy
  • LordBy said:
    Keri Russell’s character (Zorii) is all: I want to see your brains splattered in the snow Poe, and the bounty on this Rey girl will just almost get me out of the whole you dug me into!
    Then she’s all: wait a tick, I actually like Rey now, so now I like you too Poe, and there is no hole that I’m stuck in, I can just cowboy up and fly around the galaxy whenever I want!

    No transition or evolution, just “Die MF’er I need the money!” then “We’re all good I’ll ride or die for you!”

    Small moment, but it kind of encapsulates my issues with the crammed and sloppy nature of the story.

    Rey is Palpatine’s daughter? Okay, I can roll with that, but Palpatine has to be reincarnated too? Some kind of hand-wavy force-clone shit that still resulted in him being an old maimed dead-looking dude 30 years after he was blow up...

    Star Destroyers that can blow up planets? Okay, at least it’s not another Death Star clone, but you have to have tens of thousands of them when 10 would do just fine as a threat and be more believable?

    Star Destroyers can’t leave the atmosphere without a navigation tower on the ground? You can do better.

    Hyperspace skipping? Another droid? CP30 mind-wipe that’s reversed anyway? Largely-intact Death Star wreckage after that explosion in Ep 6? Rey can hold a spacecraft thrusting away with her mind, but she needs some junky outrigger to cross a narrow stretch of water? You’re asking for a lot.

    Both my son and I thought Kylo wasn’t actually on the Death Star wreckage with the intact storm trooper helmets and emperor throne, it was that force bond with Rey right? Had to be because he never actually arrived there or anything and they’ve been doing the cool force bond thing. Wait, what, he’s there? Huh?

    This is one of those things where I lost suspension of disbelief early and from there on everything becomes a problem, but there were a lot of unforced errors in the script here that brought me to that point. JJ is JJ, I lay this disaster at the feet of Kathleen Kennedy and Disney. If this script was the best they had, they should have nixed the go-fever and taken a year or two to wrap this up in a more thoughtful way.
    My biggest gripe with Keri Russels character is the fact that she just happened to be on the same planet and same exact street in the galaxy. The odds of that have to be a gazillion to 1. 

    This movie had way too many coincidences. Seemed like every one was right there when needed even though the entire plot to find the way finder meant they went to planets only when they figured out the next clue. So having them run into characters like Kerri and Lando it’s 100% suspension of disbelief. 
  • Also what the fuck with this healing shit and giving up some of your force power to heal someone. 

    How is it that 7 years after return of the Jedi we have 3 characters use the force to heal. But Luke who has 2 training sessions with Yoda and also searched and trained between the 4-6 episodes. But he didn’t heal his dad? This is like the Holdo maneuver 2.0. Introducing something new that makes no sense when considering what came before in these movies.



  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2019
    Something that "feels Star Wars" to me though is planets consisting only of single towns that have a population of about 300.

    But yes, this movie felt like a video game with a series of quests.
    Aww_PHuuCkFreddy
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Hatorian said:
    Also what the fuck with this healing shit and giving up some of your force power to heal someone. 

    How is it that 7 years after return of the Jedi we have 3 characters use the force to heal. But Luke who has 2 training sessions with Yoda and also searched and trained between the 4-6 episodes. But he didn’t heal his dad? This is like the Holdo maneuver 2.0. Introducing something new that makes no sense when considering what came before in these movies.




    Because there was no one for Rey to kill that would make her feel the turn to the dark side. And as for Kylo, IDK, probably so that scene would have more symmetry.

    Look, it's bad. I'm just a little forgiving since JJ got written into a corner in many ways.
  • DoubleTDoubleT Melbourne, Australia
    Hatorian said:This movie had way too many coincidences. Seemed like every one was right there when needed even though the entire plot to find the way finder meant they went to planets only when they figured out the next clue. So having them run into characters like Kerri and Lando it’s 100% suspension of disbelief. 
    Lando wasn’t a coincidence. He said Leia had sent him a transmission asking him to meet the team there, & he spotted Chewie in the crowd. I guess meeting the KR character was one but on the other hand Poe wasn’t there to find her specifically. He probably knows a lot of the locals there, so him being noticed by someone isn’t a big deal to me. Why can’t she be that someone? To me the movie has major problems but on second watch I didn’t see any glaringly implausible coincidences. 
    rkcrawfPangs
  • I’m watching ROTJ now. It’s against 3PO’s programming to impersonate a deity. Luke doesn’t use the Force on the bike chase. Leia supposedly always knew Luke was her brother, even when she kissed him. Twice. If you micro-analyze every film, there’s always an opportunity to call BS. I don’t think any of them can stand up to scrutiny on sci-fi rules, deep spiritual meaning, or amazing plots. Hopefully, you can all find them entertaining and enjoyable like a 10 year old would. 
    MurderbearPangs
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