Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker *SPOILER DISCUSSION*

12346»

Comments

  • This is why solo was good and gets shit for no reason besides the bitter taste of TLJ in many fans. 

    It was Low stakes, good fun. There was no scheme to murder trillions. No crazy powerful bad guy. Just a story about 2 friends doing a crazy Mission and making history in the process.

    not every Star Wars movie needs an end of the galaxy size stakes. 
    JoshuaHeterJaimieTrkcrawf
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    edited January 1
    I’m not going to be that guy who says the story in my head was better. But it was...;) 

    heres a small plot for each three. And these have some good callbacks to the originals while also be unique. i like this idea as it sort of flips the OT, actually makes sense, gives our OT characters plenty time to shine and has a whole new weapon of mass destruction. 

    Warning: this is my head cannon. Not trying to be one of those Star Wars fans who say my story would be better but just wanted to put my idea out there. 


    Episode 7: A New Republic



    30 years have past since ABY1. The new republic has finally gathered enough support and resources to provide protection and support for the galaxy. Yet the remanents of the empire exist. 

    Act 1

    The new republic is thriving. They have an army and slowly but surely bringing the senate back. 

    Han is a general In the new republic navy chasing remnants of the empire. He goes to the outer regions as he’s tracking a grand moff. But it’s a trap and Han gets captured. 

    Leia finds out and asks Luke for help who has restarted the Jedi academy and training lots of promising students. Including the twins of Han and Leia. Ben and Padme II. 

    Luke agrees to go find Han and help. But comes across a new Sith apprentice and quickly battle Before Luke decides to retreat and find Han. Knowing this is an apprentice Luke is now worried who is the Sith Lord in the rule of 2. 

    Act 2

    While he is away we find out the Sith Lord is none other than Darth Plageuis. The man who could defeat death. He infiltrates the academy and tries to turn the twins who are the most powerful Jedi after Luke and Leia. 

    Ben fall for the sith and his sister rejects it and stays with the force. This is now the biggening of our overall story. We now will follow 3 major stories for the rest of the trilogy. Ben, Padme and Luke/Leia/Han

    Act 3

    the remanents of the empire muster a strong offensive against corcuscant as the big battle in the episode. Luke is fighting to find Han and does. By the time they get back to corcuscant the planet is burning. The empire had a significant victory but forced to retreat. Now the new republic is weak and dissidence amongst the planets rise...we end on a bittersweet moment. Han is saved, Padme II helped save the day, the new republic while beaten managed to keep the capital. Unfortunately we end with Ben falling to the dark side. 

    Episode 8: Balance of the Force

    Act 1: we see the training of Padme further and her adventure to find her brother. Against the will of her parents. This takes her to many different adventures while she makes light decisions 

    Act 2: we see Bens side of the story and get to know more about this new Sith Lord. He asks Ben to hunt down Sith relics and we follow him making dark decisions. Like him going to Mustafa and Vader’s castle to find relics while Vader speaks to him from the grave. han tracks his son down but is struck down by the Sith Lord in front of Ben telling him that even Jedis are not allowed attachment. But this slowly impacts Ben. 

    Act 3: We get a major battle as the new republic goes on the offensive to destroy a major shipbuilding system in the outer time. It ends with victory for the republic but it’s just a blow to the empire as they still rebel. We end with the mysterious Sith Lord pitting his precious apprentice against Ben with Ben killing the apprentice and taking on that role to the Sith Lord. 

    episode 9: Duel of Fates

    Act 1: Luke starts to rebuild the Jedi academy and bring hope back. the twins finally meet and battle. Each trying to get them to change. But both are stubborn and keep their ground. They get separated during their battle. Leia works hard to replenish their army and keep planets on their side as some start to defect. 

    Act 2: the Sith Lord has created a force virus using the relics from Bens hunt. A deadly pathogen That can be undetected and doesn’t harm the patient for weeks but it holds its ability to be contagious and infect anyone. The plan is to release this into the next senate meeting where millions of senators will contract the disease and bring it back to their home planet potentially wiping out the entire galaxy. 

    Act 3: the plan goes underway but Ben finds a way to redeem himself and fight alongside the Jedis and his sister to defeat the Sith Lords plan. Luke and leia sacrafice themselves to Ensure this Super weapon is destroyed. Ben and Padme join forces to kill the Sith Lord. We end up at the end with no more Skywalker and only the Solos remain. End of trilogy.


  • edited January 2
    @Teresa from Concord - The story was supposed to be that Lando had a daughter at some point that was lost or kidnapped. It wasn't necessarily Jannah, but it wasn't not Jannah. He was inquiring to find out. Hinted at in the Visual Dictionary and explained elsewhere, but never made it to screen. 

    Even though I enjoyed the movie, it definitely had a lot of writting/editing issues. The director before JJ was fired, right? I still don't know why Disney didn't just stop and breathe for 6 months to get it right. It's not like the world was screaming for a new Star Wars film right now.

    Edit: IMO, Star Wars just has a history of f'ing up with minority character. The first trilogy has Lando as the only token minority (sign of the times, I guess). The prequels have more minority characters, but do some odd stuff with Jar Jar and Watto. And then this new series has no idea what to do with Finn (who is essentially a runaway slave), Rose, Lando, and Jannah, except awkwardly lump them together in B plots.
  • Finally saw it.  A muddled, confused mess that was disappointing in a different way from the Last Jedi. Have to watch Solo but after enjoying Rogue One and the Mandalorian I am starting to believe that the further away from the Force Star Wars gets, the better it might be. Writing anything beyond the becoming a Jedi Master story seems too difficult.  The writers don't set boundaries and the power creep and magicy magic magic powers just seem to be getting out of hand.  It just sucks too much oxygen out of the rest of the movie, and it really makes one wonder how the universe never knew or so rapidly forgets about these hyper capable Jedi who were involved at the very top of their Old Republic?  

    I hope they take some time and find some new characters and approaches when they make more Star Wars movies.  If I were them I would get Dave Filoni, John Favreau and Kevin Feige together and have a good talk.
    CapeGabe
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited January 7
    I always thought fantasy was the easy genre growing up, since that was the general opinion. One English major friend in college insisted to me that there wasn't a story in the fantasy genre that couldn't be written better if it didn't have the magic, and shot down all my examples. But it seems truer to me that fantasy looks easy but it isn't really. Look at what happened with Game of Thrones. But Star Wars is a better example of fantasy erosion than that, and there are many other examples that aren't coming to mind. I think writers who don't love and understand fantasy probably shouldn't write it, or should have advisors or something. It's hard for me to describe what fantasy is, and what it adds to a story, but the best example I've heard is "magic is a metaphor," which I think is true in 95% of fantasy stories. You're getting a shot of metaphor straight into the veins. And you have to use metaphors carefully or they stop working on that level.

    My favorite element of Star Wars is the fantasy, and I've yet to feel anything from that element since the early prequels. The EU had some good shit. Maybe eventually, via Feige.

    (You know, Rey and Kylo busting free of Snoke in TLJ was a good moment, but would have been actually powerful if the metaphor had been better established with Snoke being difficult for Kylo to outsmart and the Force being difficult for Rey to tap. So it's just another example of the fantasy writing being bad.)
    rkcrawf
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited January 7
    I read this long ago, Spinrad is amusingly arrogant and over the top sometimes, but this is a pretty good discussion of the issues of the Emperor of Everything phenomenon. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited January 7
    I read this long ago, Spinrad is amusingly arrogant and over the top sometimes, but this is a pretty good discussion of the issues of the Emperor of Everything phenomenon. 

    What the FUCK did I just read? Haha. Ironic that he's talking about insufferable writers the whole time. But I'm being too critical. It's an interesting point, and I got to read someone hate on OSC for several pages.

    Edit: I'm trying to find the 2 pages Google cut out, because I think they're actually extremely important to clarify his point... you don't have this lying around somewhere do you @Doctor_Nick?
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited January 7
    I just really want pages 160-161 when he's going off on Ender. God, am I going to have to order this from Amazon? What have you done Nick.

    His snark is great when I like the target.
  • Lol, Spinrad was in that New Wave, Harlan Ellison mold. 

    I actually still own the book, so here you go. 
    JaimieT
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    Finally saw it.  A muddled, confused mess that was disappointing in a different way from the Last Jedi. Have to watch Solo but after enjoying Rogue One and the Mandalorian I am starting to believe that the further away from the Force Star Wars gets, the better it might be. Writing anything beyond the becoming a Jedi Master story seems too difficult.  The writers don't set boundaries and the power creep and magicy magic magic powers just seem to be getting out of hand.


    I think you can tell a story with the force and Jedi and all that, I thought the story in Jedi Fallen Order was the best Star Wars story this year even though I liked Mandalorian a lot. The Jedi are basically just space knights, you can create stories with a scope smaller than we need to completely change the hierarchy of the universe and kill throne and everyone behind it. It works so much better when the story is set in the world of Star Wars and fits in what feels like an existing setting rather than the world forming around the story to build up the way they want the plot to go. One of the biggest problems with the sequel trilogy and especially the last movie was none of the settings felt very interesting or lived in. Everywhere they went felt like it only existed for whatever brief amount of time the main characters showed up and the only people there are the ones we saw on screen. When we see the shot towards the end where all the resistance ships show up and its supposed to be this holy shit moment, it felt more like who are all these people? How big is the resistance? Were we supposed to know it was this popular?
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Lol, Spinrad was in that New Wave, Harlan Ellison mold. 

    I actually still own the book, so here you go. 

    Thank you! Clutch. That was a good read.
  • Fantasy, and magical science fiction, only work in the long run when there are consistent rules around the fantastic stuff. They don’t need to be spelled out in the story, but the author(s) need to know them and stick within them even when it’s not convenient.

    In the new Star Wars cannon, the force just seems undefined and able to do whatever is convenient for the plot whenever it needs to be done. That’s laziness and the inconsistencies will degrade longer arcs, and the universe as a whole, over time. Light-speed/hyperspace in Star Wars also seems to suffer from this lack of limits.

    Its like when the emperor in RotJ starts shooting lighting from his fingers. That works in the trilogy as a steady revelation of the mysterious power of the force and leaves with with a “wow.” Then they’re doing lightning in the prequels and it’s like “why wasn’t Vader doing this in ANH then instead of just force-choking people?”

    Then you get these long distance force communication bonds, astral projection, holding ships against maximum thrust, immortality, etc. in the new trilogy and it’s like huh? Don’t get me started on the Holdo maneuver, light speed right out of a hangar bay, and then hyperspace-skipping. SMH. No amount of ret-conning can convince me that these things were always possible and just too hard, or too dangerous, or previously undiscovered, etc. so of course we never saw them until we did and it’s all consistent if you think about it “just right.”

    Fantasy has the same issues with ever escalating power ultimately breaking the narrative universe for future storytelling. Time travel has similar pitfalls. It takes rigorous self-restraint to use powerful concepts in fiction for multiple stories in the same universe. I’m hoping that Disney stops with the lazy fan service so we can get more good out of the Star Wars universe in the years to come.
    RyanReeseman
  • Yeah, I don’t know if it would be helpful or exhaustively stupid for the Lucasfilm story group to sit down and actually define what kind of abilities The Force gives you, because at this point I don’t know what’s stopping these people from flying. 
  • I thought they used to do that back in the old days when they were rolling out the Expanded Universe.  

    Yeah, I don’t know if it would be helpful or exhaustively stupid for the Lucasfilm story group to sit down and actually define what kind of abilities The Force gives you, because at this point I don’t know what’s stopping these people from flying. 

  • It just sucks too much oxygen out of the rest of the movie, and it really makes one wonder how the universe never knew or so rapidly forgets about these hyper capable Jedi who were involved at the very top of their Old Republic?  

    I hope they take some time and find some new characters and approaches when they make more Star Wars movies.  If I were them I would get Dave Filoni, John Favreau and Kevin Feige together and have a good talk.

    I think the Jedi themselves would have been extremely, crazy, rare, even at the height of their powers. Like 1 for every handful of systems at best. A few hundred maybe in the Order out of trillions and trillions of galactic inhabitants. We've just been so beaten over the head with every story being from the perspective of a Force user that the storytelling does a bad job of conveying that likely nobody in the galaxy would have ever heard of these people.

    Mandalorian does a fairly good job of showing that this is actually the case. Filoni and Favreau can probably continue to put together some compelling stories, but don't be surprised if we get back to the edge of the Force user lore cliff. Filioni has done some deep dives in both Clone Wars and Rebels with The Ones, which were essentially 3 Force Gods, and the Bendu, another demi-godlike force entity. Not to mention Force time-travel and all sorts of other whack fantasy stuff. Seeing as it looks like he's going to start drip-feeding some of this lore back into Mandalorian (Darksaber being just the beginning) don't be surprised if we end up back in Magicy-magic powers land before too long.


  • That conception of Jedi's being rare means it needs to be a huge universe, with systems and systems that don't even know what the Republic and Empire are. And with the speed of transit into all kinds of different systems, this seems like it would really fall short (we can assemble so many ships in an afternoon by Lando jetting all over the place). Systems actually ruled by the Republic and then the Empire should have heard of Jedi.    The Jedi Council was advising the Senate, if not making governing decisions in some facets on their own.  The Jedi were conducting military campaigns on behalf of the Senate and sending themselves out as generals and Special Forces.  It someone wiped out the National Security Council and the Joint Chiefs of Staff today, in 30 years no one would think they were a myth of some kind...


  • I don’t think the Jedi being rare would result in them being unknown. They’d be like Superman. Everyone would know about them, but their deeds and abilities would be twisted in gossip, myth, and legend because so few would witness them firsthand.
    Doctor_Nickrkcrawf
  • bizmarkiefaderbizmarkiefader San Francisco
    edited January 8
  • The good thing is that unless Mando becomes a Jedi, he shouldn't be sidelined by super powerful Force stuff.  

    redlancer said:

    Mandalorian does a fairly good job of showing that this is actually the case. Filoni and Favreau can probably continue to put together some compelling stories, but don't be surprised if we get back to the edge of the Force user lore cliff. Filioni has done some deep dives in both Clone Wars and Rebels with The Ones, which were essentially 3 Force Gods, and the Bendu, another demi-godlike force entity. Not to mention Force time-travel and all sorts of other whack fantasy stuff. Seeing as it looks like he's going to start drip-feeding some of this lore back into Mandalorian (Darksaber being just the beginning) don't be surprised if we end up back in Magicy-magic powers land before too long.





  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA


    I need to be friends with him.
  • @bizmarkiefader - Finished Jedi Fallen Order last night. Agree, it is better than the plot of the new trilogy. Even though it takes place before ANH, they could have adapted that story to come after TLJ. 
    Freddy
Sign In or Register to comment.