Joker (Spoilers)

13

Comments

  • JaimieT said:
    I just watched an interesting take that said it was lazy to give Joker mental illness, and that statistically mentally ill people are LESS likely to be violent and it was an opportunity missed to show the truth instead of the cliche. 
    Yeah, the use of mental illness as a plot device really burned my cookies. The Joker isn't delusional; he's mentally ill in that he lacks empathy. He's a classic sociopath. 

    To put another way, the dude we saw in this film couldn't run a gang or plan elaborate crimes. He's a mess and he was a mess from the first frame. That's not Joker. 
    JaimieT
  • edited October 2019
    Going to see it again. Apparently on the way to being the highest grossing R-rated film and more profitable than the MCU juggernauts:


    Also, it has been reported that Gary Glitter doesn't have the rights to “Rock and Roll (Part 2)”:

    https://nyti.ms/2MPEnkv

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited October 2019
    Anyone who appreciated Joker for the social commentary... go see Parasite ASAP. It's a truly great movie, and it's fun.
    RyanReesemanBloodyTacotonyp1222BrooklynMD
  • JaimieT said:
    Anyone who appreciated Joker for the social commentary... go see Parasite ASAP. It's a truly great movie, and it's fun.
    It’s easily my favorite movie of the year so far.
    JaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    JaimieT said:
    Anyone who appreciated Joker for the social commentary... go see Parasite ASAP. It's a truly great movie, and it's fun.
    It’s easily my favorite movie of the year so far.

    Same.
  • JaimieT said:
    Anyone who appreciated Joker for the social commentary... go see Parasite ASAP. It's a truly great movie, and it's fun.
    So far superior that it's almost laughable how much Joker has been lauded by comparison. 
    JaimieTBrooklynMD
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    tonyp1222 said:
    JaimieT said:
    Anyone who appreciated Joker for the social commentary... go see Parasite ASAP. It's a truly great movie, and it's fun.
    So far superior that it's almost laughable how much Joker has been lauded by comparison. 

    Yes, but we don't want to alienate Joker fans. ;)
  • Did anybody pick up that the clocks all showed the same time throughout the majority of the movie....

    joker clock fan theory explained

    joker ending explained spoiler talk breakdown discussion
    rhcooprkcrawfCoryHatorian
  • So there is a perfect copy out there for anyone interested. 

    Just rewatched it and paid attention to what was real and what was not. Here is what I think. 

    1. Real, most of his daily struggles, the killings in the subway, the protests, his mom being insane, him getting on the Murray show, killing Murray and the eventually end where he gets caught and put into the Aslyum

    2.  Not real, the relationship with the girl. His first appearance on Murray show as a audience member 

    the biggest evidence I can offer that this wasn’t all in his head was how we were shown The Wayne’s murder. We all know that’s the origin of Batman so what happened prior to cause this had to be real. 
  • I just saw this movie after recently rewatching Taxi Driver which I think really colored my opinion of the movie. It is so blatantly obvious how badly this movie wants to be a new generation's version of Taxi Driver, but it has a fraction of the depth of Scorcese's movie. I'd say at least 50% of Joker's scenes are lifted straight from that movie, but the Joker here is so poorly characterized that all of those scenes just seem like cheap imitation knock offs. Joaquin Phoenix does his best, but this is a completely hollow movie. 
    Teresa from Concord
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    So much hype and expectation. None of it realized. 
    RyanReesemanBrooklynMD
  • This sucked even more on a 2nd viewing. The idea that literally anybody else could lose to this annoyingly dipshit performance by Joaquin Phoenix is enough to make me not want to watch the Oscars. 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited December 2019
    This sucked even more on a 2nd viewing. The idea that literally anybody else could lose to this annoyingly dipshit performance by Joaquin Phoenix is enough to make me not want to watch the Oscars. 

    They're starved for viewers. Shenanigans like this got me watching good film ultimately (probably).
  • I just saw this movie after recently rewatching Taxi Driver which I think really colored my opinion of the movie. It is so blatantly obvious how badly this movie wants to be a new generation's version of Taxi Driver, but it has a fraction of the depth of Scorcese's movie. I'd say at least 50% of Joker's scenes are lifted straight from that movie, but the Joker here is so poorly characterized that all of those scenes just seem like cheap imitation knock offs. Joaquin Phoenix does his best, but this is a completely hollow movie. 
    Hmm strange , I've rewatched taxi driver after I watched joker , and I have news for you . I enjoyed joker more
    rhcooprkcrawfBhorten1
  • rhcooprhcoop Knoxville, Tn
    I don't get the hate for it, I really enjoyed it.  I probably won't watch it over and over due to how dark and heavy it is, but I think this must be the new movie to pile on for some reason.

    I guess people are going to be really upset when it whens awards this season.
    mft9186Bhorten1
  • rhcoop said:
    I don't get the hate for it, I really enjoyed it.  I probably won't watch it over and over due to how dark and heavy it is, but I think this must be the new movie to pile on for some reason.

    I guess people are going to be really upset when it whens awards this season.
    Only if Todd Phillips wins. I’m fully expecting Phoenix to win a bunch of awards, and maybe the production design and some technical awards which I would be totally fine with.
    rhcoop
  • Just saw joker, and maybe I’m just not into movies about downtrodden antiheroes anymore but I was underwhelmed and kinda put off by the movie as a whole. Am I alone in this?
    CretanBullCoryJaimieTDee
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Just saw joker, and maybe I’m just not into movies about downtrodden antiheroes anymore but I was underwhelmed and kinda put off by the movie as a whole. Am I alone in this?
    Nope.  I didn't hate it but was certainly underwhelmed.  Maybe my expectations were too high?
  • I do consider this movie as one of the best films last year. 
    I love how the movie conveys the problem with society, and it is such a superb performance from Joaquin Phoenix. 
    rhcoop
  • Watching the collective freakout from critics on Twitter today over all of the Oscars nominations " joker" got was a amusing thing to witness . I don't know what is it about joker that seems to trigger people . It seems to me that most of the people who are criticizing it are either "elite critics " living in a bubble or Martin Scorsese fan boys who claim the movie is derivative of taxi driver and king of comedy . What's most insulting however , is critics calling it stupid and dumb . I think that's insulting to most of the fans who resonated with the movie ideas of the class gap and the deterioration of mental health services in this country . 
    rhcooprkcrawfBhorten1
  • @mft9186 I enjoyed it, too.  It should be obvious that it’s derivative of Taxi Driver to people bc Deniro is in the movie. But I bet most millennials and younger haven’t seen Taxi Driver. They probably haven’t seen Fallen Down. 

    I thought the performance struck me as someone who was ill and society failed to help. Ledger was an agent of chaos, and a character, and I enjoyed that. But Phoenix’s Joker just had serious issues. He was clearly a bad guy and not an anti-hero to me, but he is sympathetic. He felt like an extreme personality caught up in events, which felt more grounded. 
    mft9186
  • Remember when he climbed in the fridge lol
  • It’s a mashup of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, both DeNiro / Scorsese movies. 

    rkcrawf said:
    @mft9186 I enjoyed it, too.  It should be obvious that it’s derivative of Taxi Driver to people bc Deniro is in the movie. But I bet most millennials and younger haven’t seen Taxi Driver. They probably haven’t seen Fallen Down. 
  • I love it when I see a movie and I either like it or I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it, but it kicks around inside my head for a bit and I come to love it.  The Joker was the opposite of that for me.  When I saw it, in the moment I wasn't exactly blown away but I thought that it was a 'good' movie...but in the next couple of days after seeing it, I began to think less and less of it.  I'm not going to nit-pick it on plot points, but in terms of character, themes, consistency etc it really falls apart when you look at it with a critical eye.
    RyanReeseman
  • amyja89amyja89 Oxford, England
    I'm on the record as being very 'meh' on the film as a whole. With regards to the amount of Oscar noms, it feels a bit to me of significant numbers of voters conflating doing 'the best' with doing 'the most'. But that's just me.
    JaimieTRyanReeseman
  • My main problem with the film is something I have a problem with in many films: antagonists being antagonistic for the plot’s sake. It irritates me to no end when the movie is trying so desperately for me to sympathize with the protagonist but doesn’t let it happen naturally. I can tell when I’m being manipulated and this movie was basically a propaganda film for how the government treats the mentally ill horribly. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not playing devil’s advocate to the suits and politicians that turn a blind eye to those with mental disorders or the homeless. I am, however, aware of realistic situations that misunderstood individuals face and they are nothing even close to being mugged on the subway or not being able to get a word in edgewise when being let go from a job because of a misunderstanding. Those who loved the film will argue that its set in a fictional universe where the scum of the earth roam and that you need conflict to drive the narrative, but I still think a smarter director would know how to insert the conflict in a less gross and manipulative way. (P.S. I couldn’t stand that the film didn’t trust the audience to understand that he wasn’t really with the Zazzy Beats Character just by her asking him if his name was Arthur. Instead they had to show us all the reveals of “Gasp! He was alone all along!
    Teresa from Concord
  • edited January 16
    amyja89 said:
    I'm on the record as being very 'meh' on the film as a whole. With regards to the amount of Oscar noms, it feels a bit to me of significant numbers of voters conflating doing 'the best' with doing 'the most'. But that's just me.
    I also have a sneaking suspicion that this is their attempt to get as many people to watch the broadcast as possible. 

    Either way, I find it immensely shitty that the only way The Academy will take comic book movies seriously is if you completely gut it of everything that makes it a comic book movie, and just map it over some old ass director’s previous work. 

  • My main problem with the film is something I have a problem with in many films: antagonists being antagonistic for the plot’s sake. It irritates me to no end when the movie is trying so desperately for me to sympathize with the protagonist but doesn’t let it happen naturally. I can tell when I’m being manipulated and this movie was basically a propaganda film for how the government treats the mentally ill horribly. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not playing devil’s advocate to the suits and politicians that turn a blind eye to those with mental disorders or the homeless. I am, however, aware of realistic situations that misunderstood individuals face and they are nothing even close to being mugged on the subway or not being able to get a word in edgewise when being let go from a job because of a misunderstanding. Those who loved the film will argue that its set in a fictional universe where the scum of the earth roam and that you need conflict to drive the narrative, but I still think a smarter director would know how to insert the conflict in a less gross and manipulative way. (P.S. I couldn’t stand that the film didn’t trust the audience to understand that he wasn’t really with the Zazzy Beats Character just by her asking him if his name was Arthur. Instead they had to show us all the reveals of “Gasp! He was alone all along!
    I highly doubt I was supposed to feel this way, but the amount of shit that kept happening to this guy became comical at a point. They could have called this movie Arthur and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day.

    Of course, nobody would have gone to see this creatively bankrupt movie if they had, which is exactly why they called it Joker in the first place. 

    “Hey comic book movies are in and people like Martin Scorsese movies, so let’s just ride that wave all the way to the shore, we won’t even have to do anything!” 


    Teresa from Concord
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    Finally got a chance to watch the movie and was very disappointed. The only reason I didn't stop watching is because DC had me curious. I'm a tiny bit glad I didn't because the movie got better after his mother died. 

    IMO it was not well acted or a good story. Joaquin Phoenix plays the joker as a very one note character. And the weight loss was a gimmick that seemed to occasionally dictate the camera angle - "Hey Joe lets shoot this in profile so we can see his freakish ribs. After all, he did go through the trouble of forcing an unhealthy body. Maybe he was afraid his acting wouldn't be good enough."

    I realize it is unpopular to dislike this movie because it touches on a very serious subject of mental illness. But first and foremost it needs to be a good movie, and not a public service announcement. I listened to the podcast. The boys spent more time talking about mental illness and how society treats mental illness than they did about the movie itself. So I do feel a bit justified in my opinion. And it is simply my opinion.
    JaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    My main problem with the film is something I have a problem with in many films: antagonists being antagonistic for the plot’s sake. It irritates me to no end when the movie is trying so desperately for me to sympathize with the protagonist but doesn’t let it happen naturally. I can tell when I’m being manipulated and this movie was basically a propaganda film for how the government treats the mentally ill horribly. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not playing devil’s advocate to the suits and politicians that turn a blind eye to those with mental disorders or the homeless. I am, however, aware of realistic situations that misunderstood individuals face and they are nothing even close to being mugged on the subway or not being able to get a word in edgewise when being let go from a job because of a misunderstanding. Those who loved the film will argue that its set in a fictional universe where the scum of the earth roam and that you need conflict to drive the narrative, but I still think a smarter director would know how to insert the conflict in a less gross and manipulative way. (P.S. I couldn’t stand that the film didn’t trust the audience to understand that he wasn’t really with the Zazzy Beats Character just by her asking him if his name was Arthur. Instead they had to show us all the reveals of “Gasp! He was alone all along!

    It was as subtle as the Dursleys being bad parents.
    Flukes
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