Star Trek: Picard (Spoilers Included)

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  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    Well, @Anominal, it’s not as if the former Borg who keep on calling him Locutus don’t remember him. Kinda odd that Picard ignores them, doesn’t even say, “Nope, not me. You must be confused.” Or “I’m feeling much better now, thanks.”
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Do you really cast someone to play 3 different characters, at least 1 of whom is supposed to be a daring different take, for only 1 season?  She is pretty milquetoast, IMO, but it may also be the material she has to deal with. 

    JaimieT said:
    I can't wait until I stop hearing about Soji and Dahj week to week. The characters are stupid, so I HATE those names. They are the stupidest names. 


    No, but people will stop talking about it as much. Like, I never hear about Michael these days.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    My theory has always been that Soji/Dahj (whichever) will be known as Picard going forward. So whatever needs to happen for that.
    visi0n
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    Ah-ha, there's your fallacy!  There's nothing that Q doesn't know!

    Of course, that would mean he would know how the whole "humanity on trial" would turn out, so why bother?  Guess he was just bored?
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    @Cory Q is bored and looking for a best friend, but he thinks he's acting for all his alleged reasons.
    Cory
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA


    (photo of my TV) This is a normal, perfectly fine season 4 episode. A perfectly fine Q episode. Then the twist where Q realizes Vash is manipulating his scenario for her own gain, rather than passively taking it... is SO GOOD. 

    Maybe the contrast of having just rewatched Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark is making me more impressed than I would be. And I guess these are 10 years apart. But, Marion Ravenwood is written... not great from a feminist perspective. She acts unrealisticly, based on her own development (like hell she'd put on that dress!) and Indy also treats her poorly (chiding her for wearing the dress, etc).

    This Star Trek episode is deftly done. Where most shows, even current shows, don't develop their side characters beyond the bare minimum, TNG has Vash rise to the occasion of her own previous characterization and become someone I buy Q being momentarily amused by. Picard announces his intentions to save Vash and you think you know how the episode will go. You start to tune out. Then this development hits, and even Q's stated purpose (of giving Picard a thank you gift) is thrown into chaos. You don't know what's going to happen, but you want to see these 3 characters in the same room, bickering.

    This episode is silly on its face, but damn! Good writing in here!
    visi0nA_Ron_Hubbard
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited March 26
    Spoilers for episode 10!



    There were leaks for this show that were 1/2 right. One of the leaks was that Q would show up right at the end. And thank god that did not happen! Just.... words cannot describe this relief.  :D

    Flukes
  • edited March 26
    Good ol' planetary sterilization targeting pattern number 5.   Numbers 1-4 just didn't quite cut it. 

    But 5... That's the sweet spot.   planetary sterilization targeting pattern number 5 is so bright, you need to wear shades to watch it happen.



    I think Oh, this season was one of the most ridiculous characters I've ever seen on Star Trek.  Including the time the Voyager crew turned into Horny Alligators.   I still take those Horny Alligators more seriously than Oh.

    I feel like the space battles in this season were a complete mess, made worse by giant space flowers.  

    At least we got to meet the Rikers.   Will Riker FTW.

    So.. umm.. yeah.  that was Season 1 of Picard.   Hopefully season 2 will have that new Picard smell?  

    stay safe out there folks..
    JaimieTFlukesJimA_Ron_Hubbard
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    I hope there's so many Oh cosplayers at Dragon Con. I also hope Dragon Con isn't cancelled from coronavirus.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • JaimieT said:
    I hope there's so many Oh cosplayers at Dragon Con. I also hope Dragon Con isn't cancelled from coronavirus.
    Thanks for the idea! I might have to get me some ears, raybans and a wig so I can run around screaming at people about global sterilization targeting pattern 5.    For reals on DragonCon.   I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope that Southern Fried GameRoom Expo in July makes it but seems like at this point we'd need Q to intervene.   

    Be safe out there..
    JaimieTA_Ron_Hubbard
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    edited March 26
    JaimieT said:
    Spoilers for episode 10!



    There were leaks for this show that were 1/2 right. One of the leaks was that Q would show up right at the end. And thank god that did not happen! Just.... words cannot describe this relief.  :D

    I would have preferred that.

    Minus a trillion out of 10.
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    edited March 26
    I recently rewatched that S4 episode as well and I had totally forgotten the Vash twist. Very good stuff. Vash was such a great foil for Picard.

    This episode was better than the last two episodes, but there was still plenty that I wasn't a fan of. They yadda-yadda'd through things that should have been difficult and/or interesting to see. For example, how the fuck did Picard and Jirati get out of the commune and to the ship, let alone without running into the rest of the crew who apparently are permitted to just walk around wherever they please once they bring in Narek who is inexplicably free and ready to pull an Arya Stark when needed?!

    Picard's fate was telegraphed SO HARD and it's comical how many lampshades they had to hang on it as they avoided changing anything about the character aside from removing a brain abnormality that gave him trouble exactly one time in 10 episodes. It's sitcom levels of "back to one". 

    Also, they totally did make Picard potentially immortal, technobabble notwithstanding, as we know his consciousness can be reconstructed from a single positronic neuron which he now ostensibly has a head full of.

    With that out of the way there are a few things that I liked a LOT. 

    All of the Stewart & Spiner stuff was awesome. It's a real shame that we didn't get to see more of Brent Spiner over the years. Dude is 71 years old and is still killing it. He also looked much better as Data in these scenes than he did in the previous dream sequence. It's probably in the forgiving lighting. This conversation both reinforced and extended Data's character and I wasn't expecting that from this show.

    I think we all knew Riker would show up at the head of the Starfleet armada, but I was still delighted and Frakes was perfect. I want to know more about those new ships!

    There was something very familiar about the supreme synth saviours that started to come through the portal (I thought it was a beacon?) - I need to look at Disco S2 again.

    Overall, I think I was never quite satisfied with the story they chose and being outside Starfleet really affected the tone, but I was entertained and I'm still in on Picard whenever it comes back. No more Borg cube ice skating dates though please.
    A_Ron_Hubbard
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Flukes said:

    Picard's fate was telegraphed SO HARD and it's comical how many lampshades they had to hang on it as they avoided changing anything about the character aside from removing a brain abnormality that gave him trouble exactly one time in 10 episodes. It's sitcom levels of "back to one". 
    Yeah, I'd rather Q have shown up and just snapped his fingers and fixed his brain. 
  • Doctor_NickDoctor_Nick Terminus
    edited March 27
    Picard's like the anti-Game of Thrones - one pretty good ending moment preceded by episodes of drivel... Pattern is kinda broken because that moment is then followed by more drivel, but what can you do?
    visi0nA_Ron_Hubbard
  • Also, I’m really supposed to forgive Jurati?  And the Federation is so self satisfied despite the fact that the head of their military intelligence turned out to be a Romulan flag officer? 
    Flukesalexander.klassen
  • manhattnikmanhattnik the big apple
    That was just painful. 

    Although Jeri Ryan is hotter than ever. 
    alexander.klassenFlukesA_Ron_Hubbardhisdudeness915
  • edited March 30
    Maybe this relates to the amount of wine I consumed, but I liked the finale.more than any other episode. They resolved the conflict (kind of) without a massive violent battle, and they didn't swap Patrick Stewart with some instagram star. My low expectations were exceeded 

    The one thing that still drags it all down is the characters. I really don't care for or about any of them except Picard and 7. The fact that Jurati was willing to kill her lover to genocide the synths and Soji was willing to GENOCIDE ALL BIOLOGICAL LIFE IN THE GALAXY was not, IMO, addressed in a satisfactory way.

    EDIT: Oh, and lens flares. There were so many lens flares that it became funny rather than annoying.
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    Have you watched Death Wish from Voyager (S2:E18) in your Q-watch yet? I just watched it for the first time. It makes me want to do my own rewatch of Q episodes, because I think it might be at least a top 3 Q Episode for me.

  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited April 1
    Flukes said:
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    Have you watched Death Wish from Voyager (S2:E18) in your Q-watch yet? I just watched it for the first time. It makes me want to do my own rewatch of Q episodes, because I think it might be at least a top 3 Q Episode for me.


    Death Wish is easily the best non-TNG Q affair. But unfortunately the Voyager crew is in it. I've only seen it maybe 5 times in my life, and it's not something I'm anxious to see again. It's kind of bad, but not in any way I find charming. An admirable effort.

    I didn't include either Encounter at Farpoint or Hide and Q in this rewatch either.

    I put any of the other TNG Q episodes above Death Wish. So I guess I'd rank it 7th best. The first time I saw it, my expectations were so low I was very impressed.

    You should rewatch the Q episodes! Then rank them. 
    Flukes
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    My thought is that she was an invited guest to the archaeology expo, and that a person with her skill set could probably get into Picard's quarters. I wonder if the lock on his door would be more sophisticated than an equivalent 21st century residential door. Actually, I wonder if the lock on an captain's cabin on like, an aircraft carrier, is more or less secure than a good residential door...
    JaimieTFlukes
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    My thought is that she was an invited guest to the archaeology expo, and that a person with her skill set could probably get into Picard's quarters. I wonder if the lock on his door would be more sophisticated than an equivalent 21st century residential door. Actually, I wonder if the lock on an captain's cabin on like, an aircraft carrier, is more or less secure than a good residential door...

    Okay BUT he's like, "How did you get in here?" Contextually leading us to think it's baffling. 
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    I didn't watch really any Voyager beyond the first season, so I'm currently following this essential viewing guide to get a good taste. 

    https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-voyager-an-episode-roadmap/

    Maybe a Q-Watch or the last half of DS9 next.
    JaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    Flukes said:
    I didn't watch really any Voyager beyond the first season, so I'm currently following this essential viewing guide to get a good taste. 

    https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-voyager-an-episode-roadmap/

    Maybe a Q-Watch or the last half of DS9 next.

    "the best Q episode in all of Star Trek"  :D
  • FlukesFlukes Calgary, Canada
    JaimieT said:
    Flukes said:
    I didn't watch really any Voyager beyond the first season, so I'm currently following this essential viewing guide to get a good taste. 

    https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-voyager-an-episode-roadmap/

    Maybe a Q-Watch or the last half of DS9 next.

    "the best Q episode in all of Star Trek"  :D
    Yeah, that is overstating it slightly. 
    JaimieT
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    By the way, it's not that I dislike the Voyager crew. It's that John de Lancie has good chemistry with the TNG crew and captain. Better chemistry. I don't buy that Q would have that with another crew -- lightning doesn't strike twice -- and certainly not when they try to recreate the one-on-one with Janeway. 

    The best thing Death Wish has going for it is it makes Q as fed up as we are with the idea he bumped into another Starfleet ship. He's pretty bored with them, as he should be.

    But, that intrinsically makes it lack some of the magic of TNG Q.

    I straight up disown the last 2 Q Voyager episodes.  o:)
    Flukes
  • CoryCory New Scotland
    Image may contain 1 person possible text that says what have you done to me I done you a solid
    A_Ron_HubbardjluzaniaFlukes
  • A_Ron_HubbardA_Ron_Hubbard Cincinnati, OH
    JaimieT said:
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    My thought is that she was an invited guest to the archaeology expo, and that a person with her skill set could probably get into Picard's quarters. I wonder if the lock on his door would be more sophisticated than an equivalent 21st century residential door. Actually, I wonder if the lock on an captain's cabin on like, an aircraft carrier, is more or less secure than a good residential door...

    Okay BUT he's like, "How did you get in here?" Contextually leading us to think it's baffling. 
    Wouldn't he say that if she just jimmied the lock? 
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    edited April 3
    JaimieT said:
    JaimieT said:
    Guys: How DID Vash get into Picard's quarters in the cold open of S4E20 of TNG? I think you forget the question and assume it's Q's doing, but Q doesn't even know she exists at that point! Maybe she seduced and bribed an eager ensign, but that's terrible! On the Enterprise!

    My impending death from coronavirus has me hurriedly continuing my rewatch of the Q episodes, and also loosely interpreting thread topics.

    Someone rewatch this and report back. 
    My thought is that she was an invited guest to the archaeology expo, and that a person with her skill set could probably get into Picard's quarters. I wonder if the lock on his door would be more sophisticated than an equivalent 21st century residential door. Actually, I wonder if the lock on an captain's cabin on like, an aircraft carrier, is more or less secure than a good residential door...

    Okay BUT he's like, "How did you get in here?" Contextually leading us to think it's baffling. 
    Wouldn't he say that if she just jimmied the lock? 

    No. I feel very strongly that he would not.

    Edit: At best, the line would be, "Vash! What are you doing in here?" instead. But at that point I think he'd skip the question, go right to the "why are you on the ship?" question. Honestly that SHOULD just be the question, no matter how difficult the lock.

    Never write Star Trek fan fiction. You get into this problem of trying to write good characters vs. trying to write recognizable characters as the flawed ST writers (with 1 week deadlines!) wrote them... I find myself there again.
  • JaimieTJaimieT Atlanta, GA
    But I actually think that line -- which is slightly unbelievable -- was serving the purpose of generating suspense. And making Vash look more badass. And then they just... never answered the question.
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