510: Something Unforgivable (Spoilers)

2

Comments

  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    Ok great .Here goes nothing.

    @adobo1148 you mention you know Lalo survives. How? If I remember Breaking Bad correctly, Lalo is mentioned only once by Jimmy. We never hear about or see Nacho. And obviously Gus is a key player.

    What am I missing?

    With that said, even though I know who survives in BB, I still feel tension with many of these scenes. Nacho's in some deep trouble. What does happen to Lalo to take him out of the game? And I am losing confidence that Kim survives the final season.
    ken hale
  • Lalo told that surviving commando to call his contact that the job is done. So in a way he is already out of the show.
    If Nacho lures him out and Mike after hurrying down there kills him from behind it would be a nice symmetry with Mike and Saul in the desert. With no one else knowing that Lalo survived the initial attack they could just dump the body at Lalos farm. There Mike sees all the innocent that died and decides to help Nacho disappear and calls him in dead, too.

    Murderbear
  • Yeah, the slipping Kimmy thing is a little odd on reflection. Why does she actually hate Howard so much again? She wants to stick Howard because it’s fun, not open a law clinic. She worked her way up from the mail room to become a successful lawyer and she can’t wait another 5 or 10 years to make the big bucks to open her clinic?  What about her story tells you she has problems delaying gratification?

    Also, if Kim is going to involve herself and on board with Saul on the cartel story, I think there’s little chance she doesn’t get the full story on “My Friend Who Saved Me, the Awesome Sniper.”  
    I've been listening to a lot of commentary and the best explanation I can find for Kim's behavior is that she has always had the slipping kimmy edge within her as exemplified by her carrying the tequila bottle top with her throughout the whole series only now she's embraced it so much that for Jimmy it's like looking into a mirror and realizing what kind of a monster he really is. I think it's a little bit of a revenge plot from when Howard and Chuck tried taking Jimmy's license away coupled with the yearning for another big scam. 

    The more I read around the more I feel I can kind of appreciate that direction into the next season, but I think for most people that side of the finale was not received super well or with open arms. 
    Murderbearblacksunrise7
  • ShumShum Utah
    @Teresa from Concord  I thought the same thing when I read adobo's comment, but if you read it again, that sentence is actually referring to Gus, not Lalo.
    Teresa from Concord
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah

    Alkaid13 said:
    To clarify threads going forwards:
    Spoilers means anything that hasn’t aired on television, if you’re in an Better Call Saul episode discussion thread then I assume you’ve A. Seen the episode, and B. have seen Breaking Bad. If people would like a preview thread for episodes not featuring discussion of said episode then we can do those, just label them “Episode Preview no Discussion” or something. If you’d also like an Episode Discussion thread w/o Breaking Bad knowledge we can also do those with similarly titled threads. However going forward for clarity’s sake (Spoilers) should be used exclusively for threads that feature knowledge about unaired episodes. 

    This also does not mean Carte Blanche to be assholes about it, if someone hasn’t watched the episode or BB before entering the thread that’s on them but also there’s no reason to be like “well guess what you’re fav character from BCS dies in Breaking Bad hurr hurr”. If it’s relevant to discussion then sure whatever but don’t go intentionally messing with people for no reason. 
    That’s how I’ve always seen it thanks for clarifying dude
  • Ok great .Here goes nothing.

    @adobo1148 you mention you know Lalo survives. How? If I remember Breaking Bad correctly, Lalo is mentioned only once by Jimmy. We never hear about or see Nacho. And obviously Gus is a key player.

    What am I missing?

    With that said, even though I know who survives in BB, I still feel tension with many of these scenes. Nacho's in some deep trouble. What does happen to Lalo to take him out of the game? And I am losing confidence that Kim survives the final season.
    When Walt and Jesse take Saul out into the desert in Breaking Bad and threaten him, he says "it wasn't me, it was Ignacio" and then begs for his life and says he's always a friend of the cartel in Spanish.  When they speak English to him, Saul asks "Lalo didn't send you?"

    That heavily implies that at some point everyone must know that the hit squad didn't get Lalo if Saul knows it.  However, with Breaking Bad knowledge, Lalo is still most likely dead as he never interferes with Bolsa or Gus again, we never see Tuco communicates or speak of him and Gus and Mike never worry about him.  
    ChinaskiKela15
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    edited April 22

    someone commented on how last season ended with how Jimmy pew! pewed! to end last season. i didn't make that connection.
    Teresa from Concord
  • DeeDee Adelaide
    I do not like this Kim. 
    MurderbearDoubleA_RonKela15ken hale
  • Jimmy is not wrong for blaming himself for the changes we're seeing in Kim, no matter what she says.  It's terrifying but for their relationship to be at its best, they both have to go full Bonnie and Clyde.  If one starts disagreeing with what the other is doing, then this relationship is set to end.  We saw it begin to wear thin from season 4 into season 5 until Kim became committed to the life with Saul Goodman and ran with it.

    Lalo was incredible this season, I'm actually really glad we didn't lose him this episode.  It's totally believable that he could outsmart and get the counter-drop on some goons hired through some middle man. 

    I've been more on Lalo's side than Nacho/Gus.  He is just so good at what he does and you can tell he really cares about the people he trusts.  Lalo has more charisma then Gus, Mike, and Nacho (the stonefaced trio) combined, though that's not a fault to their characters.  I do want to highlight that this season got some incredible performances out of a number of characters, I'm fully back on board with this show.
    Teresa from Concord
  • Dee said:
    I do not like this Kim. 
    I am with you on that Dee, I absolutely don't like Slipping Kimmy. She's better than this and now her and Saul have reversed roles. She's the one pushing thus sketchy scheme to get ahead and get what she wants. I don't know how much of her motivation is for her own practice and how much is just to embarrass and destroy Howard but regardless I don't like it. 

    This season I would argue has been the best season of Better Call Saul. I found everything pretty compelling although I think the Mike and Nacho plotline didn't really get good until later in the season. 

    Loved the coverage from Jim and Alexis. I know there was clearly a vocal group early on that expressed frustrations with A Ron bowing out but I think it was for the better and I think Jim and Alexis did an amazing job. 
    DeeKillert0astSchluppKela15ken hale
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    Tony Dalton is absolutely KILLING it as Lalo. I have always like Nacho and I want him to make it out but I fee like they are kind of wasting Michael Mando's talents. Nacho hasn't really done much this season except for quietly hating his life in the game. He did get to be a badass in the scene where he snuck into the drug house as it was being raided but I feel like he hasn't had the opportunity to sink his teeth into much drama. He did have a great scene with his father but I feel like Dad was doing the heavy lifting in that one. I just wish Nacho got to do more or he got to escape the life for good, like he says he wants.
    Deeneilfgks
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    Remember Kim was also treated like dog shit when she worked at HHM. She only put up with it to get ahead. I don’t see this as surprising. If we go back to season 1 I’m sure we would have a better perspective. 

    And yes. Lalo is officially in the top 5 of BB characters now and forever. 
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    He’s so different to Gus no emotion it’s just perfect enemies. 
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I feel like these guys are so similar in their energies. Lalo is way more charismatic but they both have that thing where you hate their character but love watching them work. 
    Kela15
  • It's funny they never went back to any of the Gene stuff from the beginning of the season.  I had completely forgotten about it until a read an article this morning that mentioned it.  Not that I really mind.
    ken hale
  • Hatorian said:
    Remember Kim was also treated like dog shit when she worked at HHM. She only put up with it to get ahead. I don’t see this as surprising. If we go back to season 1 I’m sure we would have a better perspective. 

    Doesn't her standing at HHM decline because of covering for shady Jimmy weirdness / Sandpiper stuff with Howard and Chuck all the time?
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    Hatorian said:
    Remember Kim was also treated like dog shit when she worked at HHM. She only put up with it to get ahead. I don’t see this as surprising. If we go back to season 1 I’m sure we would have a better perspective. 

    Doesn't her standing at HHM decline because of covering for shady Jimmy weirdness / Sandpiper stuff with Howard and Chuck all the time?
    i have to rewatch. all i know is HHM was her biggest competition for Mesa Verde and she was a mailroom person and at least received or saw some of the treatment that went down there. 
  • Teresa from ConcordTeresa from Concord Concord, California
    Can’t say I remember Kim being treated like dog shit, especially by Howard. She was a junior at the firm, and maybe treated differently as a women perhaps. Once she got tangled with Jimmy things were weirder for her.  I see nothing that leads to this new and not-improved Kim. I just don’t see this extreme of a change in character. And Rhea Sehorn is a great actress yet it still doesn’t work IMO. 
    DeeKela15
  • Can’t say I remember Kim being treated like dog shit, especially by Howard. She was a junior at the firm, and maybe treated differently as a women perhaps. Once she got tangled with Jimmy things were weirder for her.  I see nothing that leads to this new and not-improved Kim. I just don’t see this extreme of a change in character. And Rhea Sehorn is a great actress yet it still doesn’t work IMO. 
    I've been struggling with this too, mainly because I'm trying to figure out if I don't buy it because I just don't like seeing her character go down this path or I don't buy it because they haven't done a good job of selling it. I'm always tempted to put the blame on the writing of a show but with BCS I've had to come to terms with the fact that the show is specifically telling the story of deeply flawed human beings no matter how much I instinctively don't want to see people go down that path.
    neilfgksDee
  • HatorianHatorian Dagobah
    i can see why people arent happy. im just gonna go with the residual resentment she had for them and her slow descent into turning into Saul's partner in everyway
  • I'm gonna copy and paste a great comment I saw on the avclub review for this episode that highlights Kim this season.


    "It really felt like the development of Jimmy and Kim’s relationship this ENTIRE season was “a textbook example of somehow blindsiding us with what the character would obviously do.”
     From maybe the third episode onward (after the cold open with the ants devouring the ice cream), I can think of each episode having a moment where Kim did something that completely subverted our expectations. Driving back to Acker’s home in the evening, asking Jimmy to pull the con against Mesa Verde, proposing marriage after the fiasco meeting, standing up to Lalo, not allowing Jimmy to end their relationship right then and there.
    The episode titles like Wexler V. Goodman and Something Unforgivable were misleading. BCS always finds a way to go in unexpected directions, but this particular season really felt like a lesson in how to bring depth to your story by constantly subverting cliches.

    Interestingly enough, Jimmy’s disbelief to Kim’s “pew-pew” in this finale mirrors perfectly with her being stunned by Jimmy’s “S’all good, man” in the season 4 finale. They are truly in this together."



    Hatorianken hale
  • Natter CastNatter Cast San Francisco, CA
    Goodbye, Kimberly Wexler. Hello, Harley Quimm!
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    Team Wexler Hamlin

    But of an underwhelming finale, but overall a spectacular S5.
    neilfgksKela15
  • ShumShum Utah
    I've been thinking about how much of Kim's arc this season has been influenced by her career path. So much of Kim's story has revolved around her work ethic and ambition. What happens when someone like Kim finally gets everything she's been working toward and realizes it's not enough? What kind of existential questions would that raise about the way she's chosen to live her life up to this point? What do you do when your only anchor in that chaos is someone like Jimmy? From that perspective I think I can see why see continues to double down on this relationship. What are her options without Jimmy/Saul at this point?
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    Excellent episode. I was a tad disappointed that the ending wasn't the Kim/Jimmy conversation. It would have been a funhouse mirror of last season's finale. But maybe that is why they didn't do that. I just find that side of things exponentially more interesting than the cartel stuff. Though they did a really cool thing with Lalo walking away at the end, where they made his footsteps to begin sounding like thunder. It was badass. 
    neilfgks
  • DoubleA_RonDoubleA_Ron San Diego
    Just realized that Jimmy turned down the mint chocolate chip ice cream because that’s what he was eating earlier in the season when he got picked up by Nacho...
    ChinaskiDee
  • ChinaskiChinaski Santa Cruz, CA
    Just realized that Jimmy turned down the mint chocolate chip ice cream because that’s what he was eating earlier in the season when he got picked up by Nacho...
    haha yep. my buddy brought that up and i had to go back to make sure. sure enough, when Nacho made him get in the car he dropped what looked like a mint chip ice cream cone that ants eventually got to haha.

    DoubleA_Ron
  • Garthgou81Garthgou81 Placerville, CA
    Just realized that Jimmy turned down the mint chocolate chip ice cream because that’s what he was eating earlier in the season when he got picked up by Nacho...
    Wow, great catch!
    DoubleA_Ron
  • Kela15Kela15 Malta, Europe
    This season finale was such a disappointment since for the life of me I just cannot understand why Kimmy would be willing to be so vile to Howard. I must have missed something, because I can’t say I sensed any character development that really justifies her transition from hard-working ethical lawyer to this. That shot of her reaching into her desk drawer to take the tequila bottle top with her before she left her prestigious job was supposed to explain it all? I mean, I can understand how working for Mesa Verde could have left her jaded and feeling that she wasn’t doing enough for the people who really need excellent legal representation. But for her to opt for such an abject ruse to get funding for her dream job?  I’m sorry I just don’t buy it. So this last episode really left me with a proverbial bad taste, so much so that I don’t think I’ll be coming back for more. 

    That said, kudos Jim and Alexis! The podcasts were a joy to listen to! ¡Bien hecho queridos!
    DeeAlexis
  • MurderbearMurderbear Cold Spring, Ky
    I wonder if there will be any explanation to the cell phone signal boost thing. It isn't really needed I suppose but I would be curious if they can justify it at all.

    Also, I think it would be funny if suddenly a lot of Lalo's goons and staff suddenly got a bunch of voice mails or text messages because everyone got a signal boost for thirty seconds.
    Kela15
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